Ballard being stubborn at safety

[MikeCurtis]

21 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Your wife must have good taste, she chose you after all! 
 

Side note. I’m also in agreement with you. I think we’re rolling with who we currently have and furthering their development. 

I was lucky that my wife's seeing eye dog liked me  :0 

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, smittywerb said:

you’re correct, and I honestly don’t know why that’s the case lol.

 

i even remember the chiefs game and was thinking to myself how he may be our guy at FS.  He even had 4 picks in ‘22.

 

im definitely not going to go back and watch any film on him so I’ll write it off as me having blue colored shades on due to a 7th round rookie having some bright moments lol

 

 It is the simple folks. In 22 he had Gilmore who knew how to play and was good at playing man to man. Roger's also covered at a high level, when allowed to play.

 We played man (single high) about 20 plays a game last year and I contend with us having NO corners that could cover deep, that with Ballards big, slow corners, we were stuck in bad situations as often as any team in the NFL. 

 The numbers clearly reflect this, so when your single high safety can't trust either corner to do his job he is stuck in the middle of the field waiting for the rocket to launch. The QB uses his eyes to hold them and our safeties are stuck so far back we leave juicy gaps in the middle of the field. 

  If the Irsays are in it to win it (the division) they need to sign Gilmore. Make these below average kids beat him out. Right now I would say he would be worth at least one extra win.

 

[TheNewGuy]

 Training camp can't start soon enough!

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

My biggest issue  at safety is there is injury concerns. There is no one behind Thomas and cross. We could probably figure out something if Blackmon got hurt. But the FS position is a mess. 

we need someone at fs that other teams fear so they are afraid to try to beat us deep

[John Hammonds]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

FWIW:   The consensus around here is that Thomas had a nice rookie year for a 7th round pick out of the Ivy League.   But then he suffered through a very disappointing second season.   
 

But for that crowd, here is a head scratcher from PFF.   Thomas’s grades are almost identical.  His second season might even be fractionally higher.  

Agreed.  Rodney Thomas was a good story.  Here was a 7th round Ivy League player who makes starting safety his rookie year.  Wow!  What a Great Story!  Uh huh.  What does that Great Story really say?  It said that our safety room was so poor that a 7th round rookie Ivy Leaguer became the starter.  He turned out to be the best we had.  Meaning, what we had wasn't all that great in the first place.

 

And what was it we had in 2022?  Julian Blackmon, free agent Rodney McLeod, the very young rookie Nick Cross, and free agent Armani Watts.

 

And what do we have now?  Julian Blackmon, Nick Cross, Rodney Thomas, and the 5th round rookie Jaylin Simpson.

 

Shockingly familiar faces for a safety room that's supposed to be better.

Yes, I'll grant that players improve over time.  So what we have ought to be better than what we had two years ago.

But there's a reason why so many people have doubts.  The faces are, in effect, the same.

 

Oh, and as a counter-argument for those who want us to grab a veteran FS, any FS, as long as they play the position.  That's what we did in 2022 with Rodney McLeod and Armani Watts.  And the rookie Thomas wound up starting over both of them.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 It is the simple folks. In 22 he had Gilmore who knew how to play and was good at playing man to man. Roger's also covered at a high level, when allowed to play.

 We played man (single high) about 20 plays a game last year and I contend with us having NO corners that could cover deep, that with Ballards big, slow corners, we were stuck in bad situations as often as any team in the NFL. 

 The numbers clearly reflect this, so when your single high safety can't trust either corner to do his job he is stuck in the middle of the field waiting for the rocket to launch. The QB uses his eyes to hold them and our safeties are stuck so far back we leave juicy gaps in the middle of the field. 

  If the Irsays are in it to win it (the division) they need to sign Gilmore. Make these below average kids beat him out. Right now I would say he would be worth at least one extra win.

 

The problem is the coaching staff and the GM has contended that they were pleased with the corner play last season. They had issues with the safety play.  I'd contend it was execution related such as the TD play from the Colts Texans end of season game where there was supposed to be safety help on the Nico Collins bomb but Cross was not in the right place.   I think we regularly went through things like that.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

The problem is the coaching staff and the GM has contended that they were pleased with the corner play last season. They had issues with the safety play.  I'd contend it was execution related such as the TD play from the Colts Texans end of season game where there was supposed to be safety help on the Nico Collins bomb but Cross was not in the right place.   I think we regularly went through things like that.

This is what makes me a little concerned about Cross.  He’s been with the team a few years now.  He shouldn’t be making mistakes like that imo. 

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

This is what makes me a little concerned about Cross.  He’s been with the team a few years now.  He shouldn’t be making mistakes like that imo. 

Im concerned about the mental as well, but if the staff feels he's ready.... We'll see!

They are at least ready I think to give him strong evaluation in training camp and preseason. 

[richard pallo]

45 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Agreed.  Rodney Thomas was a good story.  Here was a 7th round Ivy League player who makes starting safety his rookie year.  Wow!  What a Great Story!  Uh huh.  What does that Great Story really say?  It said that our safety room was so poor that a 7th round rookie Ivy Leaguer became the starter.  He turned out to be the best we had.  Meaning, what we had wasn't all that great in the first place.

 

And what was it we had in 2022?  Julian Blackmon, free agent Rodney McLeod, the very young rookie Nick Cross, and free agent Armani Watts.

 

And what do we have now?  Julian Blackmon, Nick Cross, Rodney Thomas, and the 5th round rookie Jaylin Simpson.

 

Shockingly familiar faces for a safety room that's supposed to be better.

Yes, I'll grant that players improve over time.  So what we have ought to be better than what we had two years ago.

But there's a reason why so many people have doubts.  The faces are, in effect, the same.

 

Oh, and as a counter-argument for those who want us to grab a veteran FS, any FS, as long as they play the position.  That's what we did in 2022 with Rodney McLeod and Armani Watts.  And the rookie Thomas wound up starting over both of them.

Imo just because it didn’t work out in 2022 doesn’t mean it won’t work this year.  I’m all for giving your young players a chance to develop.   But if they are not ready they are not ready.  I’m confident the safety room is going to receive a lot of scrutiny during camp.  I think Scott’s injury added to the concern.  So we will just have to wait and see how it works out.  Regardless I think they will do something if they feel the unit can’t get the job done.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

Agreed.  Rodney Thomas was a good story.  Here was a 7th round Ivy League player who makes starting safety his rookie year.  Wow!  What a Great Story!  Uh huh.  What does that Great Story really say?  It said that our safety room was so poor that a 7th round rookie Ivy Leaguer became the starter.  He turned out to be the best we had.  Meaning, what we had wasn't all that great in the first place.

 

And what was it we had in 2022?  Julian Blackmon, free agent Rodney McLeod, the very young rookie Nick Cross, and free agent Armani Watts.

 

And what do we have now?  Julian Blackmon, Nick Cross, Rodney Thomas, and the 5th round rookie Jaylin Simpson.

 

Shockingly familiar faces for a safety room that's supposed to be better.

Yes, I'll grant that players improve over time.  So what we have ought to be better than what we had two years ago.

But there's a reason why so many people have doubts.  The faces are, in effect, the same.

 

Oh, and as a counter-argument for those who want us to grab a veteran FS, any FS, as long as they play the position.  That's what we did in 2022 with Rodney McLeod and Armani Watts.  And the rookie Thomas wound up starting over both of them.

Ok….  I was with you until the end.  A good thoughtful post.   Turns out McCloud played and played  lit and enjoyed a career year.   Graded in the 80’s.  
 

McClouds 2022 season was even better than I remembered.   
 

An overall grade of 80.  A run defense grade of about 67 which is decent.  A pass coverage grade of 85!   And he did all that while playing nearly 1025 snaps.   And that doesn’t include ST, just pass and run.  
 

So that tells me the Colts played either a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6 the vast majority of the time and weren’t in a base 4-3 very often.   Likely only on 1st downs.   McCloud is really one of Ballard’s best FA signings in his 8 seasons.  
 

[John Hammonds]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ok….  I was with you until the end.  A good thoughtful post.   Turns out McCloud played and played  lit and enjoyed a career year.   Graded in the 80’s.  
 

McClouds 2022 season was even better than I remembered.   
 

An overall grade of 80.  A run defense grade of about 67 which is decent.  A pass coverage grade of 85!   And he did all that while playing nearly 1025 snaps.   And that doesn’t include ST, just pass and run.  
 

So that tells me the Colts played either a 4-2-5 or a 4-1-6 the vast majority of the time and weren’t in a base 4-3 very often.   Likely only on 1st downs.   McCloud is really one of Ballard’s best FA signings in his 8 seasons.  
 

You usually keep me on my toes!  And make sure that whatever I write doesn't just sound good, but can be backed up with facts.   

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

You usually keep me on my toes!  And make sure that whatever I write doesn't just sound good, but can be backed up with facts.   

I have a whole bunch of posters here who do that for me, and you’re one of them!  
 

Sometimes it’s almost too easy to jump to conclusions.   I do that way, WAY too much.   And that’s when I get into trouble.  
 

Appreciate you!  
 

[GoColts8818]

It’s pretty easy to see what Ballard is doing.  He’s banking on the young guys he’s drafted and brought in the past couple of years to develop into the players they thought they could be when they drafted.  Is it a guarantee it’s going to work?  Absolutely not but seem to discount any chance the young guys can get better and assume they will be the exact same as they have been.  I don’t think that’s going to be the case.  Will the development be enough?  No way to know, but that development is going to answer the question of if Ballard was too stubborn or smart.

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

It’s pretty easy to see what Ballard is doing.  He’s banking on the young guys he’s drafted and brought in the past couple of years to develop into the players they thought they could be when they drafted.  Is it a guarantee it’s going to work?  Absolutely not but seem to discount any chance the young guys can get better and assume they will be the exact same as they have been.  I don’t think that’s going to be the case.  Will the development be enough?  No way to know, but that development is going to answer the question of if Ballard was too stubborn or smart.

And that’s what GMs normally do. They put trust and faith in their guys to perform. We’re going to have more growing pains this season, and that’s going to ruffle feathers. But I don’t see Ballard fazed by public opinion. He’s obviously for the moment confident in what we have.

[Lifetime Colt]

Shane is the head coach. He has evaluated all personnel, with his offensive and defensive coaching staff. Gus and his staff would have to give, within a degree of certainty, belief that Cross is ready to be the FS starter. If there were any hesitation, belief, or glaring concern otherwise Shane and Gus would have to go to Ballard and pressure him to fill that position.  Ballard would have the usual counter of wait for camp, bringing someone in now basically hampers Cross from ever panning out, sitting on the bench. 

 

I think Ballard will do what he has in the past, he will bring in high potential, decent experience guys, with teams that have abundance of safety camp rosters at cut downs. As GM he has to have a list of potential releases he is targeting, or his staff isn't doing their jobs. Free Agent safety's were abundant this off season, just because some were signed doesn't mean they will automatically make the teams that scooped them up.

[JediXMan]

How is Gilmore not picked up yet? Despite his age he’s still capable.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, JediXMan said:

How is Gilmore not picked up yet? Despite his age he’s still capable.

Gilmore is waiting for the right offer from the right team.   Odds are he’s waiting for a good team to lose a good corner during the pre-season.  That’ll force the team to make a good offer.   It’s a high stakes poker game.   

[throwing BBZ]

On 7/21/2024 at 11:29 AM, krunk said:

The problem is the coaching staff and the GM has contended that they were pleased with the corner play last season. They had issues with the safety play.  I'd contend it was execution related such as the TD play from the Colts Texans end of season game where there was supposed to be safety help on the Nico Collins bomb but Cross was not in the right place.   I think we regularly went through things like that.

 

 I hardly watch a game where multiple mistakes aren't made as it pertains to who was supposed to do what as offensive players pass through zones.

 Cross was being handed off duties from inexperienced corners. 

  Our secondary - back seven, has been making our coaching appear suspect for several years. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Anyone heard what time Ballard will have his presser tomorrow.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballard was on the green light podcast a couple days ago.

 

 

[BProland85]

All I can say is if Jamal Adams makes a positive impact for the Titans, or Simmons or Diggs make a positive impact for someone else I’m gonna be upset with Ballard. It’s nice and all to trust in your young guys to step up, but you can still do that while covering your butt in case they don’t. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, BProland85 said:

All I can say is if Jamal Adams makes a positive impact for the Titans, or Simmons or Diggs make a positive impact for someone else I’m gonna be upset with Ballard. It’s nice and all to trust in your young guys to step up, but you can still do that while covering your butt in case they don’t. 

it’s been explained several times, but you continue to ignore it.   
 

Jamal Adams is a strong safety.  The Colts aren’t looking for a strong safety, if they want a safety at all it will be a free safety. 
 

So maybe Simmons or Diggs are the safeties to keep an eye on.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

3 hours ago, BProland85 said:

All I can say is if Jamal Adams makes a positive impact for the Titans, or Simmons or Diggs make a positive impact for someone else I’m gonna be upset with Ballard. It’s nice and all to trust in your young guys to step up, but you can still do that while covering your butt in case they don’t. 

Ummm, there will be plenty of options after cuts are made. Many of you can't  grasp that idea.

[Hoose]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Ummm, there will be plenty of options after cuts are made. Many of you can't  grasp that idea.

Hoping to pick up some other team’s cast offs as the answer to filling a glaring hole on your Defense is not likely to work. It might work to fill out your ST depth or improving the bottom of the roster, but you’re unlikely to find a starting FS that way. 
Let’s hope that Simmons is available when the light goes off that the FS position is in trouble. I hope I’m wrong about the problem but I don’t think I am. 

[NewColtsFan]

57 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Hoping to pick up some other team’s cast offs as the answer to filling a glaring hole on your Defense is not likely to work. It might work to fill out your ST depth or improving the bottom of the roster, but you’re unlikely to find a starting FS that way. 
Let’s hope that Simmons is available when the light goes off that the FS position is in trouble. I hope I’m wrong about the problem but I don’t think I am. 

Personally,  I’m not expecting an additional safety coming from Sept 1 castoffs.  It’s possible, but I don’t think it’s likely.   
 

Assuming Cross doesn’t win the job with camp performance, I’d expect someone coming from a list of free agents currently available.  Simmons and Diggs the most notable.  But the Colts might have their eye on a lesser name.  Two years ago, who expected the Colts to sign Rodney McCloud?   All he did was have the best year of his career playing over 1000 snaps.  He graded in the low to mid-80’s.   This front office I think has shown they can find talent that fits.  
 

Id love to be the fly in the wall to know!  
 

[Hoose]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Personally,  I’m not expecting an additional safety coming from Sept 1 castoffs.  It’s possible, but I don’t think it’s likely.   
 

Assuming Cross doesn’t win the job with camp performance, I’d expect someone coming from a list of free agents currently available.  Simmons and Diggs the most notable.  But the Colts might have their eye on a lesser name.  Two years ago, who expected the Colts to sign Rodney McCloud?   All he did was have the best year of his career playing over 1000 snaps.  He graded in the low to mid-80’s.   This front office I think has shown they can find talent that fits.  
 

Id love to be the fly in the wall to know!  
 

My gut tells me they had high hopes for Daniel Scott as a sleeper at FS. With that option gone, and no margin for another injury, a FA like Simmons just makes too much sense. The Colts can afford him if he’s willing to come here. 
We’ll find out soon. 

 

[Archer]

Y’know, we’ve seen the devaluation of safeties recently (Jamal Adams’ contract was at the veteran minimum), but there’s more at play here.    I know PFF’s limitations, but Adams had an overall rating of 55 last year, whereas Nick Cross earned a 72.  Heck, Blackmon got a 68, a little higher than Simmons.  We can call safety an “obvious need”, but I have hope that we may have better players already on the roster than we realize…

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Hoose said:

My gut tells me they had high hopes for Daniel Scott as a sleeper at FS. With that option gone, and no margin for another injury, a FA like Simmons just makes too much sense. The Colts can afford him if he’s willing to come here. 
We’ll find out soon. 

 

And, to be clear…. Simmons is my preferred choice.   Diggs is my backup plan. 
 

If the Colts are going to play mostly 5 or 6 DB’s,  then Simmons/Diggs would be an addition.  They wouldn’t be there to replace Cross, but play along side of him.  

[AKB]