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Elway needs to ask himself if he wants to win now or later. By taking a QB, DT, and trading out of the 1st round, Elway clearly favors the latter. This to me is a mistake. He has one of the greatest QB's to ever play the sport of football, yet instead of giving him better weapons, he forgets Peyton is 38 years old.

One reason the Colts were so successful with Manning was Polian recognizing Manning's talents and giving him plenty of early draft weapons (Wayne, Costanzo, Addai, you name it).

I'll wager when Manning saw the Broncos select a QB, he was face-palming. Manning doesn't want to babysit a QB. If he wanted that, he could have stayed in Indy!

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The analysts keep saying Osweiler will learn a lot under Manning, but our backups didn't seem to pick up any of Manning's traits when he was here. Maybe Sorgi, he was okay. DT was their biggest need and they filled it. Caleb Hanie is the current backup and I think they figured why not use a pick on a project QB.

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Elway needs to ask himself if he wants to win now or later. By taking a QB, DT, and trading out of the 1st round, Elway clearly favors the latter. This to me is a mistake. He has one of the greatest QB's to ever play the sport of football, yet instead of giving him better weapons, he forgets Peyton is 38 years old.

One reason the Colts were so successful with Manning was Polian recognizing Manning's talents and giving him plenty of early draft weapons (Wayne, Costanzo, Addai, you name it).

I'll wager when Manning saw the Broncos select a QB, he was face-palming. Manning doesn't want to babysit a QB. If he wanted that, he could have stayed in Indy!

he was thinking that the broncos have a deep receiving corps already and signed 2 average if not good TEs
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:locked:

It's an argument that goes both ways. Do you surround Peyton with talented weapons or do you spend the picks on the defense because Peyton can make average WRs look like very good WRs?

Yep the latter. Elway knows what he's doin'. Silly colts still thinks it all about offense :heh: :locked:

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I'm baffled and frustrated by the Broncos draft. I mean their 1st and 3rd pick may well be terrific additions, but they were both drafted well above their draft grade - and wasting a second round pick on a QB is just ridiculous. I thought that they were gambling on Manning? A second round pick on a guy that you HOPE doesn't see the field for several years makes no sense. If Manning can't play, then you lose, and worry about QB next year. What about CB, etc. I think that they are set at WR and TE so no problems with the people the skipped over there, but they are more than set at QB as well. Just wierd.

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I have not been a fan of Denver's offseason. I'm still a Colts fan at heart, but I'll also be rooting for my guy in his future endeavors, and I don't see Elway making the moves to build a stronger roster. They had a ton of cap space and all they do is overpay for a mediocre Jacob Tamme and bring in Joel Dreessen (liked that move though). When you have the GOAT, and $50 mil in cap room, spend on some free agents.

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I have not been a fan of Denver's offseason. I'm still a Colts fan at heart, but I'll also be rooting for my guy in his future endeavors, and I don't see Elway making the moves to build a stronger roster. They had a ton of cap space and all they do is overpay for a mediocre Jacob Tamme and bring in Joel Dreessen (liked that move though). When you have the GOAT, and $50 mil in cap room, spend on some free agents.

Well they tried with Asante but it didn't happen.

You know what? The AFC West always makes me scratch my head. It does not matter which team it is. That division is often an enigma.

I just kinda roll with it. lmao

I get the concerns though, they are in win now mode 100%.

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The analysts keep saying Osweiler will learn a lot under Manning, but our backups didn't seem to pick up any of Manning's traits when he was here. Maybe Sorgi, he was okay. DT was their biggest need and they filled it. Caleb Hanie is the current backup and I think they figured why not use a pick on a project QB.

you can't shine a turd

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, May 2, 2012 - baiting
Hidden by Nadine, May 2, 2012 - baiting

Who cares what Peyton is or does, This is Luck's team now in Indy. Only the loyal fan will be behind Luck 100% percent, and hope he beats anything Peyton ever did. Luck is going to be Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning combined.

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their is only so much you can learn holding a clipboard none of that translate to actually being able to do it on the field especially if ya got a 300 pound plus lineman running at ya ready to take your head off or a Ray Lewis or Demarcus Ware

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Who cares what Peyton is or does, This is Luck's team now in Indy. Only the loyal fan will be behind Luck 100% percent, and hope he beats anything Peyton ever did. Luck is going to be Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning combined.

Seems a little harsh considering what the man did for the organization. I'm a Colts fan first, but I still care about what Big P does in Denver. I hope to see him win another ring out there before he hangs it up.

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I think Peyton is going to struggle next year. Tough schedule and Denver's draft moves and choices were head-scratchers to me. Yeah, they got their DT, but was Derek Wolfe the best DT available to them?

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I was not that high on Osweiler. I thought Kirk Cousins was better. I am surprised they didn't take another defensive player, like a corner. Champ Bailey could do wonders with Trumaine Johnson had they taken him instead.

Oh well, is what it is

Kirk Cousins to me is backup material. Osweiler has greater upside. Kirk Cousins has already reached his upside to me. That is what the Broncos felt too.

They did draft Omar Bolden, a good man corner, who would have been in round 2 if he had not torn his ACL the last season. Just like Rob Gronkowski would have been a top 20 pick if he had not torn his ACL his last year before the Pats got him in top of round 2.

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I think Peyton is going to struggle next year. Tough schedule and Denver's draft moves and choices were head-scratchers to me. Yeah, they got their DT, but was Derek Wolfe the best DT available to them?

Derek Wolfe had more pass rush potential in their new 4-3. Dennis Allen, their former DC, current Raiders head coach, played a 3-4 last year. Jack Del Rio is playing a 4-3 as DC this year. Derek Wolfe had more 1-gap pass rush potential and 3-4 DE potential. So, he fits their new scheme. He was Big East defensive player of the year, that has to account for something.

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When I heard Elway had said that they could have luxury picks and they wanted to move down as the draft is deep, I was a little incredulous. I was hoping that they would be aggressive to give Peyton more. I don't know what they just did but I guess they feel comfortable with the team as is... I hope Peyton can put them over the top, and clearly that's what they believe. They won two SBs with draft castouts after all.

I knew they were high on Osweiler and we need to plan post-Peyton. Let him sit for four years and learn how to carry himself. I was surprised that Derek Wolfe was not even in my draft guide but I trust John Fox knows DTs. Will find out soon enough.

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Derek Wolfe had more pass rush potential in their new 4-3. Dennis Allen, their former DC, current Raiders head coach, played a 3-4 last year. Jack Del Rio is playing a 4-3 as DC this year. Derek Wolfe had more 1-gap pass rush potential and 3-4 DE potential. So, he fits their new scheme. He was Big East defensive player of the year, that has to account for something.

i wonder how von miller fits with jack del rio's defense. doesnt seem like a fit to me.

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i wonder how von miller fits with jack del rio's defense. doesnt seem like a fit to me.

Undersized Mathis like DE. Note that he is 6'3", 246, very close to Mathis' size. Those guys are pretty handy to have for most Ds, anyone in the 245-260 lb range with such athleticism, either play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB.

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I'm baffled and frustrated by the Broncos draft. I mean their 1st and 3rd pick may well be terrific additions, but they were both drafted well above their draft grade - and wasting a second round pick on a QB is just ridiculous. I thought that they were gambling on Manning? A second round pick on a guy that you HOPE doesn't see the field for several years makes no sense. If Manning can't play, then you lose, and worry about QB next year. What about CB, etc. I think that they are set at WR and TE so no problems with the people the skipped over there, but they are more than set at QB as well. Just wierd.

Oh no. That won't play. The Broncos got rid of a polarizing QB that still got them into the playoffs and dispensed the vaunted Steelers. They protected their cap and pocketbook with multiple clauses in Manning's contract. They needed their QB of the future as a ray of hope in worst case scenario. Everyone saw what Indy went through with Collins/Painter fails. Broncos fans would revolt taking a playoff team to worst in league in a gamble on Manning. Why not take a QB that needs 2-3 years in development while hoping your recently hired HOF QB gives you that 2-3 years of top level play? Worst case, you have to plug in your future QB early and accelerate the development process.

They needed DT, and got them. They have talent, they won games. They won playoff game. Before Manning even stepped foot in Mile High.

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Last years Broncos were a fluke (IMO). That was some hardcore good fortune they had in several games.

That entire division was an enigma. Could have been won by SD IMO if they did not underachieve again and Rivers went on an interception run.

Heck could have been won by the Raiders if they did not choke away the final game.

The Steelers probably overlooked Tebow in the playoffs. And they were banged up. No way anyone overlooks Denver with Manning.

That Tebow mania last year was ridiculous. In a way I hate to say it....NE beating them down did not even bother me as much as it would have in years past.

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Nobody can make chicken pie out of chicken painter.

With that said, I'm sure Painter is far better now than he was when he got here. So yes, he is/was that bad.

Sorgi would've put some W's on the board and did look competent when he was given the chance.

This kid will improve by being in the meetings with Manning and learning how Manning goes about working on an annual/weekly/daily basis.

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Manning will find a way to work even harder and get the Broncos wins. If he were to not make the playoffs, it might be bigger headlines than when he won his 4th MVP.

It's the AFC West, Manning better find a way to lead them to the playoffs or else those fans in Denver are gonna flip out. Lord Tebow "got them" there the year before so Manning is expected to take them to the next level.

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Why not take a QB that needs 2-3 years in development while hoping your recently hired HOF QB gives you that 2-3 years of top level play?

For some of the same reasons that we debated round and round when we were talking about having Luck and Manning on the same team. The idea isn't to have Peyton play for 2-3 years, it's to have him play until he retires. He has a five year contract for a reason. The rookies contract isn't even that long, so they will likely have to decide whether to resign him or not without ever seeing him play a meaningful game.

If he is actually good enough to play having him there is a waste of his career, and if he is REALLY good than it will bring pressure to bear to have Peyton retire early. What is the point of all that exactly, and who does it benefit? Certainly not Peyton or Osweiler.

I never said don't get a good backup. It's the whole "this is the future" nonsense that I can't wrap my head around. If you are gambling with Peyton, then go all in. Trying to have it both ways in this fashion doesn't make much sense. For these same reasons I hoped that the Colts would trade the number one pick and keep Peyton. Having decided to keep the number one pick instead, I completely understood the need to release Peyton. The Broncos don't have the same salary cap concerns, but otherwise the situations are similar. Of course Osweiler is a second round pick, but that only changes things in the sense that it makes it less likely that he will succeed. In fact it makes it even more ridiculous because few 2nd round QBs succeed, and basing a succession plan on the assumption that "this one will be the exception" makes little sense. It's actually a gamble with a FAR less likelyhood of a successful outcome than just going with Peyton, but in the process they wasted a second round pick who might have increased the likelyhood of Peyton succeeding. They are covering their rears in what may well be a lose-lose proposition. That's not what I call gambling.

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Who cares what Peyton is or does, This is Luck's team now in Indy. Only the loyal fan will be behind Luck 100% percent, and hope he beats anything Peyton ever did. Luck is going to be Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning combined.

GOUCK
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For some of the same reasons that we debated round and round when we were talking about having Luck and Manning on the same team. The idea isn't to have Peyton play for 2-3 years, it's to have him play until he retires. He has a five year contract for a reason. The rookies contract isn't even that long, so they will likely have to decide whether to resign him or not without ever seeing him play a meaningful game.

First, Osweiler is no Luck. He isn't NFL ready, yet. He isn't expected to be, nor deserving to be a starter. Next, Peyton does NOT have a 5 year contract in the traditional sense. He has a 1, or 3, or 4, or 5 year contract, depending upon FO decisions. Broncos can cut Peyton before the beginning of 2013 and only be out 18 million. no dead cap space. Osweiler protection number 1. If Peyton arm isn't good enough by seasons end, that could be it, Osweiler steps in. If Peyton is on the team at beginning of 2013, then 2013 and 2014 pay for Peyton is guaranteed, EXCEPT if Peyton gets another neck injury, Broncos can completely get out of (just) 2014 pay. Peyton can now get cut at end of 2014, with no further repercussions, and Osweiler step in. 3 years, and should be ready. However, if Peyton stays on the team for 2015 beginning, it is guaranteed. If he is still on the team for the beginning of 2016 year, his final year is guaranteed. So, it is a ! year, 2 year, and two more 1 year contracts. Not 5. If Peyton decides to hang them up, gets hurt, or just doesn't have arm back in shape, Elway is prepared. If Peyton plays at HOF level, Elway is prepared.

If he is actually good enough to play having him there is a waste of his career, and if he is REALLY good than it will bring pressure to bear to have Peyton retire early. What is the point of all that exactly, and who does it benefit? Certainly not Peyton or Osweiler. I never said don't get a good backup. It's the whole "this is the future" nonsense that I can't wrap my head around.

See above.

If you are gambling with Peyton, then go all in. Trying to have it both ways in this fashion doesn't make much sense.

Evidently, other teams don't have that perspective. They'll gamble, but take precautions as well. Elway's soundbite "there is no plan B" was B.S.. Plan B went into action once Tim Tebow was dealt to the Jets.

For these same reasons I hoped that the Colts would trade the number one pick and keep Peyton. Having decided to keep the number one pick instead, I completely understood the need to release Peyton. The Broncos don't have the same salary cap concerns, but otherwise the situations are similar. Of course Osweiler is a second round pick, but that only changes things in the sense that it makes it less likely that he will succeed. In fact it makes it even more ridiculous because few 2nd round QBs succeed, and basing a succession plan on the assumption that "this one will be the exception" makes little sense. It's actually a gamble with a FAR less likelyhood of a successful outcome than just going with Peyton, but in the process they wasted a second round pick who might have increased the likelyhood of Peyton succeeding. They are covering their rears in what may well be a lose-lose proposition. That's not what I call gambling.

The player, not draft position, determines his success. Besides, most 2nd round QB's are what we consider a reach for poor playing teams. Broncos weren't a poor playing team in dire need of a franchise QB. They chose one that has upside and isn't under fire to produce instantly. Quite a few here thought Osweiler would the baddest mamma jamma of all time (OK, I exaggerate, but many raved over him, even while Luck was staring us in the face). Face it, Peyton isn't a certainty, and he is at the homestretch of his career. If Elway doesn't have a win now, but transition seamlessly plan in place, he'll soon be out of a job. He and Peyton are on the same page, they share so many things in common. I don't think Peyton is worried about Osweiler. Peyton is just concerned about how Peyton like he can still be and things will take care of themselves.

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Come to find out from Chris Mortenson that, faced with his own football mortality, Peyton suggested Elway protect himself and go get a QB. Peyton likely won't have time to teach him while getting his Bronco teammates up to speed on the playbook and timing, but Osweiler will still get all of the other intangible things from a HOF'er just being there and watchjing every moment unfold and how to go about business.

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Since when is Peyton 38?

As for Denver, they won a lot of games with a below average QB. The team Manning left could hardly win 2 games without him. I think Denver could have a real shot from the get go next year, having a real QB and all.

Osweiler should be counting his blessings. A guy with a good amount of potential (unlike Manning's prior backups) who can learn from the best, and maybe earn a big contract 4 years down the road.

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I think Peyton is going to struggle next year. Tough schedule and Denver's draft moves and choices were head-scratchers to me. Yeah, they got their DT, but was Derek Wolfe the best DT available to them?

They obviously thought so, and no one can answer that rhetorical question until they've all played for a while anyway.

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Did we forget the Texans already folks?

The team holds your contract. What they do with you is their business. If you don't like it, you leave when the contract expires.

Denver doesn't care what either wants, and that is their right.

Just like if we had had Andrew Luck sit behind Peyton. We don't care what either of them wants, we want to win a SB.

its a QB league. You need an elite QB to win. You should have a darn good backup that can carry you for 1-3 games if necessary and hopefully not in the playoffs.

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I'm baffled and frustrated by the Broncos draft. I mean their 1st and 3rd pick may well be terrific additions, but they were both drafted well above their draft grade - and wasting a second round pick on a QB is just ridiculous. I thought that they were gambling on Manning? A second round pick on a guy that you HOPE doesn't see the field for several years makes no sense. If Manning can't play, then you lose, and worry about QB next year. What about CB, etc. I think that they are set at WR and TE so no problems with the people the skipped over there, but they are more than set at QB as well. Just wierd.

Denver's pretty much set..They made the playoffs last year...

Plus...they may have cap issues....

Denver already has what they need

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