The 4th and 1 play. What bothers me

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Trust the play call but not the personnel. Nothing new about what you are saying. It has been the same thing discussed over several pages in the post game thread, just FYI, same identical stance as yours by several posters. 

 

The difference is, me and several others like @Superman @stitches don't agree that the personnel was wrong when it resulted in a wide open play whose execution was botched. Ultimately, it is a matter of what helps Colts fans sleep better at night, knowing that Pittman failed or JT failed instead of knowing it was Goodson that failed. For those like you, it is clearly the former. But then, we won't know because they weren't involved, hence the speculative discussions.  

 

I have moved on, hopefully this is the last time I have to explain my stance.

I am ok with your stance but personnel does matter. Would personnel matter if Peyton had 1 play to make and threw it to Jacob Tamme instead of Dallas Clark and the play failed? Clark has better hands, so sure it would. I will leave it at that. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

If Gay makes that FG a FG wins the game. What if. 

Actually a FG would have tied it at 23-23. Then Stroud would have probably gotten a 3rd and 20 with a bomb to Nico in OT to win it . 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually a FG would have tied it at 23-23. Then Stroud would have probably gotten a 3rd and 20 with a bomb to Nico in OT to win it . 

I was going with the final score of 23-19 if gay scores that the score is 23-22 and the colts are in FG range on that 4th and 1. 

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am ok with your stance but personnel does matter. Would personnel matter if Peyton had 1 play to make and threw it to Jacob Tamme instead of Dallas Clark and the play failed? Clark has better hands, so sure it would. I will leave it at that. 

 

I am not extrapolating to every situation. That is the typical argument from users. Just because I said something, it meant that "something" applies to every situation. No, that is not the case. In this situation, the personnel didn't matter and Goodson obviously was the one they practiced with all week and they weren't going to put JT in a position to fail when he wasn't involved in practicing that play. So, if you are fine with the play call, it was the right personnel. That is my point. Good coaches don't wing it by asking a player to do something in game time they haven't done in practice, even if it is a star player.

 

It would be like Pagano asking (I forget what his name was) to take that fake punt and not go over every aspect of it in practice but expect him to not snap it in real time and say "Oops, should have gone over that in practice".

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

I was going with the final score of 23-19 if gay scores that the score is 23-22 and the colts are in FG range on that 4th and 1. 

Yeah they gave us that safety on purpose though. The final was really 23-17.

[2006Coltsbestever]

A lot of posters go by QBR to how good a QB is. Here is a fun fact. Minshew ended up with a better QBR than Stroud did. Minshew was 13th, Stroud 15th. Also regarding Levis and AR, Levis played in 9 games, AR in 4 games, and Levis only accounted for 2 more TDs for his team than AR. AR had 3 passing, 4 rushing = 7. Levis 8 passing, 1 rushing = 9. People say AR is injury prone, what is Levis then? Levis missed the last 3 games due to injury. 

[chad72]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of posters go by QBR to how good a QB is. Here is a fun fact. Minshew ended up with a better QBR than Stroud did. Minshew was 13th, Stroud 15th. Also regarding Levis and AR, Levis played in 9 games, AR in 4 games, and Levis only accounted for 2 more TDs for his team than AR. AR had 3 passing, 4 rushing = 7. Levis 8 passing, 1 rushing = 9. People say AR is injury prone, what is Levis then? Levis missed the last 3 games due to injury. 

 

I have a co-worker who is a Kentucky Wildcat fan. He said while Levis did drop because of his senior year injuries, a lot of his injuries are self-inflicted, brought upon by holding on to the ball for too long. He isn't wrong. 

 

So, fans need to take that into consideration too. Stroud got his bell rung by not adjusting to the Jets' pass rush by holding on to the ball too long that he got away with other Ds besides the Jets. 

 

Folks need to take all these into consideration.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I have a co-worker who is a Kentucky Wildcat fan. He said while Levis did drop because of his senior year injuries, a lot of his injuries are self-inflicted, brought upon by holding on to the ball for too long. He isn't wrong. 

 

So, fans need to take that into consideration too. Stroud got his bell rung by not adjusting to the Jets' pass rush by holding on to the ball too long that he got away with other Ds besides the Jets. 

 

Folks need to take all these into consideration.

I agree, even Stroud missed 2 games by getting his bell rung like you said. In order for me to believe that AR is injury prone is if he misses a bunch of games next season. Hell, I can say Joe Burrow is injury prone based on his rookie season and this past season if I wanted to be a hater.  

[coltsorioles]

What about Houston lining up offsides???  His entire hand is on the Colts side. Why is no one in the media talking about it?  And don't say it had no effect because it was a bad throw, just ask Dee Ford and Tom Brady

[2006Coltsbestever]

39 minutes ago, coltsorioles said:

What about Houston lining up offsides???  His entire hand is on the Colts side. Why is no one in the media talking about it?  And don't say it had no effect because it was a bad throw, just ask Dee Ford and Tom Brady

The Browns game was ok with some people because we got a call at Baltimore, but the same people don't bring this up. It all evens out, yeah right  . He was clearly offsides, they called it on KC because Buffalo was a hair away from being in deep trouble in the standings at that point. We have been on the short end of stick so many times when it comes to calls that we need about 10 calls for it to even out dating back to the 1995 AFC Championship.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't think anyone in here is saying it was a bad play call.

 

Lots of people have said it was a bad play call.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Lots of people have said it was a bad play call.

I will have to re-read the posts, maybe I am wrong. I am not one of them though. To me the play call was fine. I just think running Taylor would have been better. 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will have to re-read the posts, maybe I am wrong. I am not one of them though. To me the play call was fine. I just think running Taylor would have been better. 

 

Why would running Taylor have been better? Taylor was hurt.

 

The Texans had five down linemen, eight defenders in the box, and another safety within 10 yards of the LOS. They were determined to stop the run, even without Taylor on the field. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Why would running Taylor have been better? Taylor was hurt.

 

The Texans had five down linemen, eight defenders in the box, and another safety within 10 yards of the LOS. They were determined to stop the run, even without Taylor on the field. 

 

I have faith in our O.Line and Taylor being able to get 1 yard, why wouldn't I? That is our team identity and Taylor while playing injured still had 188 yards and I am sure would give it his all to get 1 measly yard. Our O.Line was playing good. See this is the problem with what I am posting, some will look at it and say I think what Shane called was bad. That is even nowhere the case. I have never said that.

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have faith in our O.Line and Taylor being able to get 1 yard, why wouldn't I? That is our team identity and Taylor while playing injured still had 188 yards and I am sure would give it his all to get 1 measly yard. Our O.Line was playing good. See this is the problem with what I am posting, some will look at it and say I think what Shane called was bad. That is even nowhere the case. I have never said that.

 

I don't know why you're defensive about it. I'm certainly not accusing you of calling the play call bad. I engaged because I'd like to understand your position.

 

I get what you're saying about running it. I just disagree, because we'd had very mixed results running on that possession already. We barely got a yard on the previous play, 3rd and 2. Now it's 4th and 1, and the Texans are loading up to stop the run. Our best back is laboring through a foot injury, and it shows. So when you ask why wouldn't someone have faith in the ability to get 1 yard, I think the answer is because we were struggling to run already, and the lead back was hurt.

 

I also think it's very possible for execution problems to undermine a run play, just like execution problems undermined the pass play. 

 

To me, Steichen did something that I think is a hallmark of a good play caller. He exploited the situation, and called a play that put his players in position to succeed. Personally, I think he should keep doing that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know why you're defensive about it. I'm certainly not accusing you of calling the play call bad. I engaged because I'd like to understand your position.

 

I get what you're saying about running it. I just disagree, because we'd had very mixed results running on that possession already. We barely got a yard on the previous play, 3rd and 2. Now it's 4th and 1, and the Texans are loading up to stop the run. Our best back is laboring through a foot injury, and it shows. So when you ask why wouldn't someone have faith in the ability to get 1 yard, I think the answer is because we were struggling to run already, and the lead back was hurt.

 

I also think it's very possible for execution problems to undermine a run play, just like execution problems undermined the pass play. 

 

To me, Steichen did something that I think is a hallmark of a good play caller. He exploited the situation, and called a play that put his players in position to succeed. Personally, I think he should keep doing that.

I wasn't trying to be defensive, if it came off like that I apologize. I get your thinking on the situation - you are not wrong, and I have even said I understood the play call. 

[ArmchairQB]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have faith in our O.Line and Taylor being able to get 1 yard, why wouldn't I? That is our team identity and Taylor while playing injured still had 188 yards and I am sure would give it his all to get 1 measly yard. Our O.Line was playing good. See this is the problem with what I am posting, some will look at it and say I think what Shane called was bad. That is even nowhere the case. I have never said that.

I don’t know how long we are going to keep this conversation going as a community.  It was a brilliant call because with Goodson in the game the Texans were keying on our wide receivers.  Even Zaire Franklin said that when they saw Goodson in the game they assumed it was a pass to Pittman or Downs coming and Houston thought the same thing.  
 

They did NOT expect Goodson on a wheel route and therefore did not account for him on that play as the film clearly shows.  
 

EJ Speed and Franklin both went on to say that at that point in the game the defense is focused on players not plays.  Steichen took advantage of that.  Shame it didn’t work 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, ArmchairQB said:

I don’t know how long we are going to keep this conversation going as a community.  It was a brilliant call because with Goodson in the game the Texans were keying on our wide receivers.  Even Zaire Franklin said that when they saw Goodson in the game they assumed it was a pass to Pittman or Downs coming and Houston thought the same thing.  
 

They did NOT expect Goodson on a wheel route and therefore did not account for him on that play as the film clearly shows.  

Never said it wasn't a good call. 

[ArmchairQB]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Never said it wasn't a good call. 

My bad I quoted the wrong post.  This was meant for your post about the personnel.   

[Scott Pennock]

Real talk here…….if the play worked you would be calling Steichen a genius. 
 

But it didn’t and now you feel the need to second guess him to death. 
 

Shame on you…..

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Real talk here…….if the play worked you would be calling Steichen a genius. 
 

But it didn’t and now you feel the need to second guess him to death. 
 

Shame on you…..

The overwhelming majority of the thread are people proclaiming why Shane was right.

[Scott Pennock]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

The overwhelming majority of the thread are people proclaiming why Shane was right.

I read a bunch of whiners in here and the post game thread so figured it applied

[dw49]

On 1/12/2024 at 7:44 AM, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

I was going with the final score of 23-19 if gay scores that the score is 23-22 and the colts are in FG range on that 4th and 1. 

 

It's not that simple. If Gay makes the FG , Texans don't start at their 47. They gained around 20 yards and kicked a long FG. How do you know what transpires if Gay makes it and the Texans start at their 25 ? Probably much different play calling . Maybe they get nothing , maybe they still get 3 or maybe they score a TD. 

 

Also the clock management and play calling for both teams could be different if the score was different. No...?

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

4 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

It's not that simple. If Gay makes the FG , Texans don't start at their 47. They gained around 20 yards and kicked a long FG. How do you know what transpires if Gay makes it and the Texans start at their 25 ? Probably much different play calling . Maybe they get nothing , maybe they still get 3 or maybe they score a TD. 

 

Also the clock management and play calling for both teams could be different if the score was different. No...?

Yeah that’s why I said “what if” in my original post. It’s pointless. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 1/12/2024 at 10:42 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually a FG would have tied it at 23-23. Then Stroud would have probably gotten a 3rd and 20 with a bomb to Nico in OT to win it . 

 

Yep.

For some reason the opposing safeties against the Texans seem to get confused and are easily manipulated to be out of position. 

[craigerb]

Our last chance to win was to call for a fair catch on the punt after safety with 1 second left, then bring in Ehlinger for a rollout Hail Mary to Pierce and MAC. The multi-lateral return only works in college--not the NFL.

[Superman]

51 minutes ago, craigerb said:

Our last chance to win was to call for a fair catch on the punt after safety with 1 second left, then bring in Ehlinger for a rollout Hail Mary to Pierce and MAC. The multi-lateral return only works in college--not the NFL.

 

The hail mary doesn't really work either. But yeah, I was expecting the fair catch and a hail mary try also. Not sure why they fielded it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The only reason it still bothers me is we were 15 yards from a possible division title. We were so close. Then you see Browns lay an egg makes me wonder what colts could of done.