Merged - Latest Rumor: Tj Houshmanzahdeh Headed To Indy?

[LUVTHESHOE]

All of you saying what a great pick up he would be, understand that there are roster limitations. They are only able to carry 53 on the active roster an traditionally they have only carried 4-5 WR's. On top of that, the last WR on the roster has contributed on special teams in some capacity. So who gets cut in favor of TJ? Wayne? Collie? Garcon? Gonzo? White? And do you honestly believe he would play on ST's?

special teams! anyone would be an upgrade in that area, iam not a big tj fan,but you cant defend our special teams they are the worst

and that can't be debated

[Smitto]

The colts dont need anymore old players on their team, when that injury comes sign somebody but until then do not waste a roster spot on T.J. And its not like T.J is a awesome WR, the colts dont need that i can gurantee you if Garcon (and i love garcon)was on another team he would not be as productive as he is for the Colts... Peyton can practically make some receivers good.... So Vetrans are not needed at Wideout.

[Douzer]

First, I'm not in the camp of people who think were all set at WR. Two injuries and the offense is limited again. I saw that last year and I don't want to see it again.

Second, Last year the Colts were all set to introduce the 4 WR set as a regular addition to the offense and it went up in smoke in week one. One injury and that's gone again.

Third, I wouldn't drop a future starter to get Housh, but Blair is not a future starter IMHO. Straight up, he could not beat out Housh in a training camp.

So when it comes to Blair, I like him too, but not because he's a lethal weapon, but because he's a feel good story. It's not about that though, it's about the best 5 WR's the Colts can field and that puts me in the Housh camp. Do it!

Go Colts!

[leatherman]

these topics i mean rumors have to stop i'm tired of wanting to beat my head into the wall

[doogansquest]

these topics i mean rumors have to stop i'm tired of wanting to beat my head into the wall

I'm not. See if you can do it a little longer.

[21isSuperman]

these topics i mean rumors have to stop i'm tired of wanting to beat my head into the wall

Why would they have to stop? Rumours about player movement are a big part of the NFL and a major topic of discussion for fans. If you really don't want to read this stuff, you don't have to click on the topic. Click on a topic that interests you and go for that

[John Dee]

A team never has enough good football players and TJ is just that.

[noah larson]

Housh's stats are better than Gonzo's for the last 2 years. How do you say he's not better than someone who is chronically injured?

Healthy Gonzo > Healthy Houshmanzahdeh

I already stated that TJ would be a decent pick-up for depth but if Gonzo and Housh were both 100% Gonzo would smoke him.

[Broylsie]

ok people made the point that we don't need an older receiver b/c manning can make ANYONE a good receiver...so my counter argument is then why in the world could he not make a former solid #2 receiver look just as good as before then?

i like this idea better than moss or t.o. because he won't ask for as much money and isn't as big a diva as them. im all for competing and seeing who will make our team better in depth. he is a very good blocking receiver as well which we could use in yet again another year of emphasizing improving the run

[doogansquest]

ok people made the point that we don't need an older receiver b/c manning can make ANYONE a good receiver...so my counter argument is then why in the world could he not make a former solid #2 receiver look just as good as before then?

i like this idea better than moss or t.o. because he won't ask for as much money and isn't as big a diva as them. im all for competing and seeing who will make our team better in depth. he is a very good blocking receiver as well which we could use in yet again another year of emphasizing improving the run

It's hard to make a receiver look much better when they are old, can't get "there" on time as readily anymore, and may have little motivation beyond retirement money.

[jskinnz]

special teams! anyone would be an upgrade in that area, iam not a big tj fan,but you cant defend our special teams they are the worst

and that can't be debated

No.

1) Houshmanzahdeh is not going to return punts or cover kicks and a WR and the 5th WR on your roster better be able to do that.

2) Houshmanzahdeh would not improve your ST's anyway. You want fast cover guys and shifty rerturners and neither of those describes him.

[jskinnz]

First, I'm not in the camp of people who think were all set at WR. Two injuries and the offense is limited again. I saw that last year and I don't want to see it again.

Second, Last year the Colts were all set to introduce the 4 WR set as a regular addition to the offense and it went up in smoke in week one. One injury and that's gone again.

Third, I wouldn't drop a future starter to get Housh, but Blair is not a future starter IMHO. Straight up, he could not beat out Housh in a training camp.

So when it comes to Blair, I like him too, but not because he's a lethal weapon, but because he's a feel good story. It's not about that though, it's about the best 5 WR's the Colts can field and that puts me in the Housh camp. Do it!

Go Colts!

1) If the roster was 70 instead of 53 and you could stow extra players away, then you would have a point. But it isn't and any team that loses 2 of its top 4 WR's (and Clark on top of that) is going to be limited offensively.

2) I would question your second point. First, I follow the Colts religiously and I never once heard anything about that. Second, even if they were going to that kind of personnel grouping, they are not going to tell anyone about it. To go 4 WR's, you have to take a RB or TE off the field. That seems unlikely given the Colts personnel.

3) Agree that you don't drop a starter for him. I actually don't you drop anyone for him. See my special team's point throughout this thread.

I think this is just the Colts doing their homework (if he was actually in town to talk with them). A "hey if we need you in season, we'll call you" type conversation.

[Rich Cannon]

Imo we dont need anymore WR'S but a low inexpensive contract i dont mind. This would give us liability insurance on Anthony Gonzalez, Blair White and Collie

[jskinnz]

This is why this rumor makes zero sense to me. Your 5th WR, if you even carry one, better be a contributor on special teams. If this somehow signals that White is not healthy, I would think that opens the door for a guy like Gilreath. There is no way the TJ would return or cover kicks.

The only thing that makes sense as to why there would be interest is if there is a injury to one of the main WR's but there has been no reports of that to my knowledge.

The other thing I thought off was this may mean a trade for Gonzo is in the works but that does not pass the common sense test either. What kind of trade value is there for guy who has not been healthy the last two years. What woud they get in return? I think the answer is not much.

I don't think anything comes of this.

Does quoting my own post make me vain?

I read something today from Phil B that makes sense. Gonzo is apparently due a roster bonus of $2 million should he make the team so maybe they are looking for a cheaper way to go. That is the first plausible thing I have read on this. If it happens, he becomes the 4th WR behind Wayne, Collie and Garcon and there is White (if healthy) or Gilreath to be the 5th WR who contributes on ST's as well. The theories that he adds depth to a corps that is already 5 deep are a big bunch of nonsense

[antipatriot]

I still say this makes sense at the right price. As for the Gonzo argument, well I think Gonzo is great but how many games has he played the last two seasons hmmm?

As for the 4WR set I heard the same thing about us using that formation however we would be using Dallas as part of that. Once again I really like Garcon but the guy drops a lot of easy catches, Housh rarely has in his career.

Blair was great last year when we needed him and I hope he turns into a star but you can never have enough quality weapons for a QB like 18.

Then again if we were all so smart we would be in the front office of the Colts and we would win the SB every year.

[jskinnz]

I still say this makes sense at the right price. As for the Gonzo argument, well I think Gonzo is great but how many games has he played the last two seasons hmmm?

As for the 4WR set I heard the same thing about us using that formation however we would be using Dallas as part of that. Once again I really like Garcon but the guy drops a lot of easy catches, Housh rarely has in his career.

Blair was great last year when we needed him and I hope he turns into a star but you can never have enough quality weapons for a QB like 18.

Then again if we were all so smart we would be in the front office of the Colts and we would win the SB every year.

The price would be right because it would be at the Colts price. The guy is unemployed so the team holds the leverage.

There is a big difference between a 4 WR set and one in which they use one of their base formations (1 RB, 1 TE, and 3 WR's) and split everyone out v. a set when they actually bring 4 WR's on the field. The Colts have done the first plenty of times and have, to my knowledge, never have and never announced an intention to do the second.

The notion that Peyton quality weapons assumes that:

1) TJ is a quality weapon still

2) and if he is, someone has to go. So wouldn't they be losing one quality weapon for another (supposedly)?

If what Phil B says is accurate and there is a financial reason to let Gonzo walk, then that is a plausible explanation for the possible interest.

The rest of the theories here do not pass the sniff test.

[bayone]

The price would be right because it would be at the Colts price. The guy is unemployed so the team holds the leverage.

There is a big difference between a 4 WR set and one in which they use one of their base formations (1 RB, 1 TE, and 3 WR's) and split everyone out v. a set when they actually bring 4 WR's on the field. The Colts have done the first plenty of times and have, to my knowledge, never have and never announced an intention to do the second.

The notion that Peyton quality weapons assumes that:

1) TJ is a quality weapon still

2) and if he is, someone has to go. So wouldn't they be losing one quality weapon for another (supposedly)?

If what Phil B says is accurate and there is a financial reason to let Gonzo walk, then that is a plausible explanation for the possible interest.

The rest of the theories here do not pass the sniff test.

Phil B just saaid gonzo do for a 2 mill signing bomus, I dont think he said may be reason to let him go, But realy read article day or 2 back so dont remember

[Coltsman1788]

Phil B just saaid gonzo do for a 2 mill signing bomus, I dont think he said may be reason to let him go, But realy read article day or 2 back so dont remember

Yeah, I just read it after seeing it alluded to in a post here and I interpreted it the same way as you did. Phil B actually says if Colts are interested it's because they are concerned about the ability of Collie and/or Gonzo to stay healthy and then threw in that Gonzo is expected to receive a $2 million salary bump if he makes the roster. Gonzo's potential salary bump might be a consideration but I didn't read anything in that blog that indicated that it would be their primary motivation for exploring other options.

http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2011/08/12/whats-overunder-on-panic-during-colts-preseason/

[Smitto]

Does quoting my own post make me vain?

I read something today from Phil B that makes sense. Gonzo is apparently due a roster bonus of $2 million should he make the team so maybe they are looking for a cheaper way to go. That is the first plausible thing I have read on this. If it happens, he becomes the 4th WR behind Wayne, Collie and Garcon and there is White (if healthy) or Gilreath to be the 5th WR who contributes on ST's as well. The theories that he adds depth to a corps that is already 5 deep are a big bunch of nonsense

Almost forgot gonzo was a 1st round pick, tbh i think all these questions and rumors will be nulled during the preseason. Im gonna bet that Gonzo is gonna get extensive playtime in tonights game so we'll see how that pans out.

[trooth]

I dont understand why any of you would complain about or question getting this guy. Do you guys remember what he did with a healthy carson palmer? he's 6'2" with an incredible skill set and virticle leap. He has had an injured Matt Hasslebeck and joe flacco throwing to him the last couple seasons, how do u expect to flourish in that? Now a guy with his skill would have peyton manning throwing to him and u dont think that would be productive? This will give garcon and collie to play in there true spot at slot and housh can play the outside. I just dont understand the negative side to this.

[Smitto]

I dont understand why any of you would complain about or question getting this guy. Do you guys remember what he did with a healthy carson palmer? he's 6'2" with an incredible skill set and virticle leap. He has had an injured Matt Hasslebeck and joe flacco throwing to him the last couple seasons, how do u expect to flourish in that? Now a guy with his skill would have peyton manning throwing to him and u dont think that would be productive? This will give garcon and collie to play in there true spot at slot and housh can play the outside. I just dont understand the negative side to this.

First of all Joe Flaco is a very good QB, and Garcons "true" spot is not a slot receiver. the colts havent played 1 preseason game yet and on paper they are filled with depth at the WR position. UNTIL someone gets hurt TJ is a waste of space because the colts have better and younger talents on their roster. WR position is not a need for the colts just like Irsay said, get it through your heads ppl.

[jskinnz]

Yeah, I just read it after seeing it alluded to in a post here and I interpreted it the same way as you did. Phil B actually says if Colts are interested it's because they are concerned about the ability of Collie and/or Gonzo to stay healthy and then threw in that Gonzo is expected to receive a $2 million salary bump if he makes the roster. Gonzo's potential salary bump might be a consideration but I didn't read anything in that blog that indicated that it would be their primary motivation for exploring other options.

http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2011/08/12/whats-overunder-on-panic-during-colts-preseason/

Understand. All I am saying is that none of the other theories thrown out there make sense as to why there may be interest in TJ except for the Gonzo bonus. The health of Gonzo and Collie may be a concern but that would not become meaningful until after they got into the season and one or both went down.

I think this is just a preliminary meeting, if there was one, to understand interest level should a move be necessitated.

[MikeNice]

another quality reciever is much needed. 2 injury prone, 1 inconsistant, 1 with a half of year of experience WR is definetly a need for those who think it aint. doesn't have to be pro bowler reciever but one who can contribute right away.

[Malakai432]

Some people will always complain regardless who the Colts talk to or show interest in. Some people would probably complain even if they picked Larry Fitgerald, Patrick Willis, even Derrell Revis for a primo deal, (not like that would ever happen). But still complainers would show up, Ewwww Derrell Revis he won't fit the Colts scheme, he brings to much drama, some people would probably go as far to say Lacey is better than Revis....

I wouldn't not see any problem with them bringing in TJ what so ever. He's added depth, he most likely will find a place somewhere else of the Colts don't pick him up. In a hypothetical situation some will whine if the Colts get him then be thankful for acquiring him if Reggie, Collie, Garçon, or Gonzo get injured.

[Phil J]

some people would probably go as far to say Lacey is better than Revis....

I can guarantee you that absolutely not one single person would say that.

[Coltsman1788]

Understand. All I am saying is that none of the other theories thrown out there make sense as to why there may be interest in TJ except for the Gonzo bonus. The health of Gonzo and Collie may be a concern but that would not become meaningful until after they got into the season and one or both went down.

I think this is just a preliminary meeting, if there was one, to understand interest level should a move be necessitated.

I hear you and think that I better understand your take on the Phil B blog.

I guess we have differing opinions on whether or not the Colts should wait for an actual injury to occur before taking precautionary action. The way I see it is it's not a matter of "if" Gonzo and/or Collie go down but "when". If the Colts have a respectable veteran option that would fit in with their offense, add some physicality,and provide some insurance when Gonzo and/or Collie do go down, and they can get it for a one year contract at a bargain basement price then I think they should strike while the iron is hot.

If the Colts wait until a wideout actually does go down then they would lose some negotiating leverage and would probably have to pay more than they would otherwise like to. The market dynamic will change as more teams lose players to injuries and the demand curve goes up and supply curve down on some of these marginal talents sitting on the free agency sidelines. Some of the better options available now are not guaranteed to still be out there if they wait.

Even if the Colts wait until someone goes down, there will be some fans who argue that it is better to just throw a rookie replacement in there rather than overpay for a veteran receiver who we could have had for cheaper (if still available). Then we are back to last year again. We all saw how pedestrian our offense became in the playoffs when our best replacement option was Blair White.

When you have two receivers...one with the injury history of Gonzo and the other who suffered a concussion and a reoccurrence last year, it is prudent to take precautions sooner rather than later. And to me, that is also a viable theory as to why the Colts may have some interest if there is any truth to these rumors.

[Smitto]

I hear you and think that I better understand your take on the Phil B blog.

I guess we have differing opinions on whether or not the Colts should wait for an actual injury to occur before taking precautionary action. The way I see it is it's not a matter of "if" Gonzo and/or Collie go down but "when". If the Colts have a respectable veteran option that would fit in with their offense, add some physicality,and provide some insurance when Gonzo and/or Collie do go down, and they can get it for a one year contract at a bargain basement price then I think they should strike while the iron is hot.

If the Colts wait until a wideout actually does go down then they would lose some negotiating leverage and would probably have to pay more than they would otherwise like to. The market dynamic will change as more teams lose players to injuries and the demand curve goes up and supply curve down on some of these marginal talents sitting on the free agency sidelines. Some of the better options available now are not guaranteed to still be out there if they wait.

Even if the Colts wait until someone goes down, there will be some fans who argue that it is better to just throw a rookie replacement in there rather than overpay for a veteran receiver who we could have had for cheaper (if still available). Then we are back to last year again. We all saw how pedestrian our offense became in the playoffs when our best replacement option was Blair White.

When you have two receivers...one with the injury history of Gonzo and the other who suffered a concussion and a reoccurrence last year, it is prudent to take precautions sooner rather than later. And to me, that is also a viable theory as to why the Colts may have some interest if there is any truth to these rumors.

What do you mean when? you dont know that no one does... I stated in another thread that collie has a good chance of suffering a concussion this year again but i could be very wrong. The colts dont need help at WR, someone said collie was injury prone above me? idk who it was but thats not true, and Gonzo is not inconsistent when he is on the field he is a weapon. I believe the colts receivers this year are gonna stay injury free.

[jskinnz]

Coltsman- I understand your point but let me ask you a question. At this stage of their career who has more upside and is more capable of making plays? Gonzo and collie or tj? The answer is clearly the colts existing receivers. Which is why you don't make a move until someone gets hurt. There is a chance collie and gonzo are injury free this year.

Couple that with the roster space limitation so in order to bring in tj, someone has got to go. With the likelihood of carrying 3 qb's and extra linemen while that gets sorted out the possibility of carrying more than 5 receivers is remote at best.

[Coltsman1788]

What do you mean when? you dont know that no one does... I stated in another thread that collie has a good chance of suffering a concussion this year again but i could be very wrong. The colts dont need help at WR, someone said collie was injury prone above me? idk who it was but thats not true, and Gonzo is not inconsistent when he is on the field he is a weapon. I believe the colts receivers this year are gonna stay injury free.

No one knows for sure obviously. Which is why I said "the way I see it..." but given the general nature of concussions and Gonzo's spotty history in regards to staying healthy, I think the percentages are stacked pretty heavily against both playing a full season.

Gonzo hasn't been a weapon for over two years now since he is never on the field. Would love him to prove me wrong this year but as of now he is the offense's version of Bob Sanders as far as I am concerned. He has some talent but what good does it do you when the guy is on the sidelines all the time?

I like Collie though. I think he would be reliable if not for the concussion problem. The nature of concussions and increasing tendency for reoccurance is what concerns me with him.

With these two guys, I'd prefer to plan for the worse and hope for the best.

[jskinnz]

Coltsman- I understand your point but let me ask you a question. At this stage of their career who has more upside and is more capable of making plays? Gonzo and collie or tj? The answer is clearly the colts existing receivers. Which is why you don't make a move until someone gets hurt. There is a chance collie and gonzo are injury free this year.

Couple that with the roster space limitation so in order to bring in tj, someone has got to go. With the likelihood of carrying 3 qb's and extra linemen while that gets sorted out the possibility of carrying more than 5 receivers is remote at best.

[Coltsman1788]

Coltsman- I understand your point but let me ask you a question. At this stage of their career who has more upside and is more capable of making plays? Gonzo and collie or tj? The answer is clearly the colts existing receivers. Which is why you don't make a move until someone gets hurt. There is a chance collie and gonzo are injury free this year.

Couple that with the roster space limitation so in order to bring in tj, someone has got to go. With the likelihood of carrying 3 qb's and extra linemen while that gets sorted out the possibility of carrying more than 5 receivers is remote at best.

I believe at this point in their career that Collie and Gonzo have more talent than Housh. The problem is that you also have to take into account the risk associated with each player and the probability that they will actually stay healthy enough to contribute. Since no one really knows how this will play out for sure we can only analyze this based on each player's past trends. If I think that Gonzo as a player talent wise is a 70 out of 100 but he only plays 30% of the time over the past 2 years(being very generous here)then his true value to me is no longer 70 but 30% of 70. Therefore I could still conceivably value Housh more if past trends show he has a better tendency to actually play even if I value Gonzo's overall talent more.

There is a chance Gonzo and Collie are both injury free this year. But based on past trends, medical history, etc. it is not that good of a chance. If Collie didn't have the concussion and Gonzo played regularly then I wouldn't think we needed another receiver. Based on their history however, I think we do.

I think your roster limitation argument is your best one. We have several needs and limited roster space so although we may still need to address wide receiver depth, we may not necessarily have the luxury of doing so.

[Smitto]

No one knows for sure obviously. Which is why I said "the way I see it..." but given the general nature of concussions and Gonzo's spotty history in regards to staying healthy, I think the percentages are stacked pretty heavily against both playing a full season.

Gonzo hasn't been a weapon for over two years now since he is never on the field. Would love him to prove me wrong this year but as of now he is the offense's version of Bob Sanders as far as I am concerned. He has some talent but what good does it do you when the guy is on the sidelines all the time?

I like Collie though. I think he would be reliable if not for the concussion problem. The nature of concussions and increasing tendency for reoccurance is what concerns me with him.

With these two guys, I'd prefer to plan for the worse and hope for the best.

I think this lockout has helped Gonzo and Collie longer rest and more time to get back in training camp shape, i said once collie needs to wear a more padded helmet, he's been seen wearing a helmet different than the ones the players usually wear (from an article bayone posted). i believe in the colts next man up style thats why i hope david gilreath makes this team, he could be the colts desean jackson if he shows out in the preseason... I think fans need to hold off all this talk of getting a WR until you see what the players on the colts can do.

[shaunzo]

This wouldn't be a bad fit. The guys a seasoned veteran, stays healthy, and would be a great possession target. Our receivers outside of Reggie Wayne, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, are soft. Like cotton ball soft. Seriously, what's the over/under on how many games into the season until Gonzo has his annual season-ending injury, or until Collie gets another concussion? TJ has never had that problem. The Super Bowl's in Indy this year, and Polian obviously wants the Colts to be in that game, hence all the one year deals. I say bring him in.

[jskinnz]

My best argument? I think all of my points have solid gold. If there is player who most at risk, gonzo is the one. His roster bonus that Phil b pointed to and his injury history make him vulnerable.

That is why if this house thing has legs it will be at someones expense - likely ag

[Coltswarriors]

I wouldn't have a problem with signing him, but if we do he needs to realize he probably won't see much time unless someone gets injured.

It'd be nice to have him, just in case someone (or 2) go down and he's a quality vet that can come in and perform well. It's just not something the Colts need. I'd rather the Colts go after a corner or DB.

[Kyle]

name a corner or DB with experience that would come to the colts and get playing time.

it is easy to sit back and say "I'd rather the Colts go after a corner or DB." A WR improvement may not be "NEEDED" but does it hurt?

no one is saying they would rather have Housh than Asante Samuels, grimes, whitner, or Asumuah (S) but the fact is they cost WAY more money and it is not really an option.

We have 2 choices here; 1. The colts without Housh 2. The colts with Housh..... i choose option 2

[mr. football]

My best argument? I think all of my points have solid gold. If there is player who most at risk, gonzo is the one. His roster bonus that Phil b pointed to and his injury history make him vulnerable.

That is why if this house thing has legs it will be at someones expense - likely ag

im not saying, that i think what your saying, isnt true. because i have no idea. it very well could be. i just find it very hard to believe that the colts would cut a healthy gonzo over a 2 million dollar roster bonus. the time he has put in with peyton learning precise routes and knowing the play book cover to cover to me would be more valuable than 2 million dollars. i think he finishes out the year on the team unless he gets put on pup.

[skadura]

i. the time he has put in with peyton learning precise routes and knowing the play book cover to cover to me would be more valuable than 2 million dollars. i think he finishes out the year on the team unless he gets put on pup.

huuuuuuh????? ive put in 13 years of watching peyton and offense go out and run the same offense over and over. i can honestly say i know the offense just as good as any opposing team......do i deserve 2MILLION DOLLARS???? lol obviously im jk but seriously ....if he doesn't step on the field...hes worth nothing to an organization unless hes a coach, and thats why coaches get paid substantially less.

[Kyle]

My best argument? I think all of my points have solid gold. If there is player who most at risk, gonzo is the one. His roster bonus that Phil b pointed to and his injury history make him vulnerable.

That is why if this house thing has legs it will be at someones expense - likely ag

we could add housh and not drop any WRs

[jskinnz]

im not saying, that i think what your saying, isnt true. because i have no idea. it very well could be. i just find it very hard to believe that the colts would cut a healthy gonzo over a 2 million dollar roster bonus. the time he has put in with peyton learning precise routes and knowing the play book cover to cover to me would be more valuable than 2 million dollars. i think he finishes out the year on the team unless he gets put on pup.

Do not misunderstand me. I think the Housmanzahdeh stuff is nonsense. I think Gonzo is a much better player at this point. I am just saying that if there one player at the most risk with these rumors, it is Gonzo.