These final two games

[RollerColt]

The line just isn’t what it used to be. 

[1959Colts]

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'll rewatch, I thought I saw several run plays from under center. Maybe it was play action...

 

Either way, I think the OL was losing up front, and that doesn't really change based on where the QB is standing.

Nope. Right of the gate, nothing but shotgun.

As a matter of fact, you can go back and watch all 15 games and probably count on one hand, the times the Colts have gone under center (outside of the Pittsburgh game, when we were well, comfortably, ahead, and a few goalline/ QB sneak type plays occasionally, here and there.

 

This "shotgun only" scheme had been my biggest peeve against Reich last year, and unfortunately, has been, once again, this year with Steichen.

 

I will also disagree, that just because our line is getting whooped on these shotgun runs, that one should assume, they would also get whooped from under center. It's just a much better formation to run the ball out of.

 

If SS was to simply try it, you may be surprised what a big difference it makes, having the RB take the handoff 7 yards deep, while standing still, as opposed to a getting head of steam, and taking the handoff 3 yards from the line of scrimmage.

 

We do have some mauler type interior linemen with Kelly, Nelson ...and now Fries.

The fact it can work for us was evident, during the sequence in the Steelers game. when Steichen decided to give them a  heavy dose of our RBs from under center. It worked and he ran like 17 straight running plays in a row.

...Only to abandon this tactic entirely vs Atlanta.

 

And really, the shotgun, even from it's first inception (Tom Landry 1975?), was always meant to be a passing formation, with perhaps, an occasional draw play thrown in, to keep the D honest.  

 

 

and you mention play action? It is also well known, that play action passes work much better from under center, than from the shotgun. Because when the QB takes the snap from under center, he is more hidden as he fakes the handoff to the RB

 

 

 

[1959Colts]

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[AustexColt]

Gus has lost every time he played the Raiders and Derek Carr. He can make changes to change the outcome OR he can continue to do what he always does and we will suffer the same result. If Shane and Cooter can game plan the offense than WHY can't Gus do the same with the defense?  It is going to be PUT up or SHUT up time. The Colts are favored and it is time the defense and ST create some take aways. 

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, AustexColt said:

Gus has lost every time he played the Raiders and Derek Carr. He can make changes to change the outcome OR he can continue to do what he always does and we will suffer the same result. If Shane and Cooter can game plan the offense than WHY can't Gus do the same with the defense?  It is going to be PUT up or SHUT up time. The Colts are favored and it is time the defense and ST create some take aways. 

No Derek Carr this time.  This week he wins.

[John Hammonds]

I know I'll be called a Downer for this, but...

I'm gonna go glass half empty.  I don't believe we will win either of these last two games.

We are a "pretty good" team, that can normally beat the bad teams we play, and can sometimes get that miracle game against a good team, but with as many guys as we have on IR, we have to conjure those miracles just to beat the meh teams.  These last two games are against teams that aren't meh.  They're not playoff teams.  But they're not meh.  I'm gonna say we lose them both.

And that doesn't mean that this season was terrible, or that Ballard needs to be fired, or whatever.  We achieved a heck of a lot more than we thought we would at the start of the season.  And we have building blocks to achieve more after this.

But I think we've driven this car, this year, with this many missing pieces, about as far as it can drive.

(Go ahead, Colts.  Prove me wrong.  Please.)

[Dingus McGirt]

39 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I know I'll be called a Downer for this, but...

I'm gonna go glass half empty.  I don't believe we will win either of these last two games.

We are a "pretty good" team, that can normally beat the bad teams we play, and can sometimes get that miracle game against a good team, but with as many guys as we have on IR, we have to conjure those miracles just to beat the meh teams.  These last two games are against teams that aren't meh.  They're not playoff teams.  But they're not meh.  I'm gonna say we lose them both.

And that doesn't mean that this season was terrible, or that Ballard needs to be fired, or whatever.  We achieved a heck of a lot more than we thought we would at the start of the season.  And we have building blocks to achieve more after this.

But I think we've driven this car, this year, with this many missing pieces, about as far as it can drive.

(Go ahead, Colts.  Prove me wrong.  Please.)

Don't see this post as a "downer."  It's a reasonable summation of the team's performance to date with a twist of realism.  

[DEColtsLover36]

46 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I know I'll be called a Downer for this, but...

I'm gonna go glass half empty.  I don't believe we will win either of these last two games.

We are a "pretty good" team, that can normally beat the bad teams we play, and can sometimes get that miracle game against a good team, but with as many guys as we have on IR, we have to conjure those miracles just to beat the meh teams.  These last two games are against teams that aren't meh.  They're not playoff teams.  But they're not meh.  I'm gonna say we lose them both.

And that doesn't mean that this season was terrible, or that Ballard needs to be fired, or whatever.  We achieved a heck of a lot more than we thought we would at the start of the season.  And we have building blocks to achieve more after this.

But I think we've driven this car, this year, with this many missing pieces, about as far as it can drive.

(Go ahead, Colts.  Prove me wrong.  Please.)

Totally agree with this. I think that Falcons game took the wind out of the sails and was the reality check- we’ve done all we can do with what we have.

Could be wrong but that’s what I’m feeling also.

Doesn’t mean I am disappointed in this season by ANY means. I have had a great time watching our Colts, and for all of us to have had so much to celebrate on the forum together these past several months! Can’t wait for next season 

[2006Coltsbestever]

@John Hammonds@Dingus McGirt@DEColtsLover36, what makes you think the Raiders are going to come in here and beat us? Just a question. I confident we win this game. Houston scares me a little because of Stroud.

[2006Coltsbestever]

The way we played at Atlanta will have nothing to do with the way play the Raiders. This has been going on all season. Cincy stomped us and people were like, Minshew sucks, we are done. Then we turn around and stomp the Steelers who just stomped Cincy. 

[John Hammonds]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@John Hammonds@Dingus McGirt@DEColtsLover36, what makes you think the Raiders are going to come in here and beat us? Just a question. I confident we win this game. Houston scares me a little because of Stroud.

As a general rule, the story of any game is that the coaching staffs will design game plans to create matchups to try to win.  Like chess games.  And sometimes their plans work.  And sometimes they don't.  When they don't, then the game comes down to the simple equation of "I have these many players that are simply better than yours."  And the Colts don't rate very well at that.  They need to have the better game plan, because their personnel just isn't that much better.  And for the most part, Steichen has been up to the task.  He's done a great job of designing a plan to beat the other team.  As for the personnel comparison track, it gets even worse the more starters you have missing from the game.  Your margin of error gets slimmer and slimmer.  Until, finally, there's a key guy that if he's missing, it just throws off the entire game.  That's what happened last week against Atlanta.  No Pittman = instant defeat.  It's absurdly simple to defend against the Colts:  Show a Bear front to stop JT's interior running, double team Pittman, and take your chances with the Colts' lesser talent in the passing game.  Make them beat you.  If Pittman is out, then you don't even have to do a double team.  You can shut down the entire offence almost without trying.

It's my opinion that we have So Many of our players out that the margin of error in the Better Personnel scenario has become so slim we have very little chance to win.  We're seriously depending on the Steichen game plan to win.  To be honest, he's done a great job.  And he does give us a chance to win.  But there's only so much you can do when you're missing your bishops, your rooks, and your queen.  The best chess player in the world can't win with only knights and pawns.

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

As a general rule, the story of any game is that the coaching staffs will design game plans to create matchups to try to win.  Like chess games.  And sometimes their plans work.  And sometimes they don't.  When they don't, then the game comes down to the simple equation of "I have these many players that are simply better than yours."  And the Colts don't rate very well at that.  They need to have the better game plan, because their personnel just isn't that much better.  And for the most part, Steichen has been up to the task.  He's done a great job of designing a plan to beat the other team.  As for the personnel comparison track, it gets even worse the more starters you have missing from the game.  Your margin of error gets slimmer and slimmer.  Until, finally, there's a key guy that if he's missing, it just throws off the entire game.  That's what happened last week against Atlanta.  No Pittman = instant defeat.  It's absurdly simple to defend against the Colts:  Show a Bear front to stop JT's interior running, double team Pittman, and take your chances with the Colts' lesser talent in the passing game.  Make them beat you.  If Pittman is out, then you don't even have to do a double team.  You can shut down the entire offence almost without trying.

It's my opinion that we have So Many of our players out that the margin of error in the Better Personnel scenario has become so slim we have very little chance to win.  We're seriously depending on the Steichen game plan to win.  To be honest, he's done a great job.  And he does give us a chance to win.  But there's only so much you can do when you're missing your bishops, your rooks, and your queen.  The best chess player in the world can't win with only knights and pawns.

I think we have the better QB and Coach in this matchup. I am assuming Pittman and Moss both will play is another reason why I think we will win. Between JT and Moss, our run game should be back in form. Aidan did not do anything vs the Chiefs defense in the 2nd Half, matter of fact it was maybe one of the worst of the half's I have seen a QB play all year. Chiefs lost that game, more than Raiders won. They looked off all game. When we matchup with Houston, they will have the better QB, that game has me scared.

 

Regarding your Chess terms, it will come down to the end game (4th Qtr). Steichen will have a Queen and a Rook left, Raiders will also have a Queen but a Pawn left as the other piece, hoping to get that Pawn across to get a Rook but it won't happen. Eventually, it will be Checkmate.

[AustexColt]

We improved the offense with a creative and the leadership of Shane Steichen. In my humble opinion I believe Gus Bradley is a Ballard choice and like Reich and Eberflus they are not creative enough and aggressive to the new football being played. Either Ballard steps aside and leave it to Shane to select his own DC and staff, or leave the GM position.

[DEColtsLover36]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@John Hammonds@Dingus McGirt@DEColtsLover36, what makes you think the Raiders are going to come in here and beat us? Just a question. I confident we win this game. Houston scares me a little because of Stroud.

Nothing specific… just think that the Raiders locker room is more energetic right now and they may come out more aggressive to get a win. Also I feel like we are a pretty easy team to figure out and plan for. JMHO. Would be great to see some surprise plays featuring Goodman or Sermon out there, them rekindling the fire from the Pitt game. But in general I don’t feel like we will have much more to offer than JT up the gut or pass to Pittman (if he plays). Which is easy for Raiders (and Houston) to plan for and stop. Still will be watching the game and hoping for a win though, so no problem if I am proven wrong! I don’t know the Raiders’ specific strengths and weaknesses so we shall see.

[Superman]

On 12/26/2023 at 4:17 PM, 1959Colts said:

Nope. Right of the gate, nothing but shotgun.

 

Plays from under center in the first half:

 

1st quarter:

10:54, 2nd and 8, play action, incomplete pass

7:42, 1st and 10, toss right to Taylor, 0 yards

 

2nd quarter:

13:42, 1st and 10, handoff middle, 0 yards

3:23, 1st and 10, double fake, screen, incomplete pass

 

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. Two runs from under center, two play fakes from under center, zero success. To your point, if we tried to get the run game going with plays from under center, not just sporadically doing it as a wrinkle, it could have an impact. But the small sample size from the Falcons game isn't encouraging.

[Stephen]

The most colt like thing to do is beat the raiders then lose to texans. Either way I think we miss the playoffs. 

[RollerColt]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:17 PM, 1959Colts said:

Nope. Right of the gate, nothing but shotgun.

As a matter of fact, you can go back and watch all 15 games and probably count on one hand, the times the Colts have gone under center (outside of the Pittsburgh game, when we were well, comfortably, ahead, and a few goalline/ QB sneak type plays occasionally, here and there.

 

This "shotgun only" scheme had been my biggest peeve against Reich last year, and unfortunately, has been, once again, this year with Steichen.

 

I will also disagree, that just because our line is getting whooped on these shotgun runs, that one should assume, they would also get whooped from under center. It's just a much better formation to run the ball out of.

 

If SS was to simply try it, you may be surprised what a big difference it makes, having the RB take the handoff 7 yards deep, while standing still, as opposed to a getting head of steam, and taking the handoff 3 yards from the line of scrimmage.

 

We do have some mauler type interior linemen with Kelly, Nelson ...and now Fries.

The fact it can work for us was evident, during the sequence in the Steelers game. when Steichen decided to give them a  heavy dose of our RBs from under center. It worked and he ran like 17 straight running plays in a row.

...Only to abandon this tactic entirely vs Atlanta.

 

And really, the shotgun, even from it's first inception (Tom Landry 1975?), was always meant to be a passing formation, with perhaps, an occasional draw play thrown in, to keep the D honest.  

 

 

and you mention play action? It is also well known, that play action passes work much better from under center, than from the shotgun. Because when the QB takes the snap from under center, he is more hidden as he fakes the handoff to the RB

 

 

 

I can confirm as a former running back, I hated shotgun with a passion. 

[Patrick Miller]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:32 AM, John Hammonds said:

I know I'll be called a Downer for this, but...

I'm gonna go glass half empty.  I don't believe we will win either of these last two games.

We are a "pretty good" team, that can normally beat the bad teams we play, and can sometimes get that miracle game against a good team, but with as many guys as we have on IR, we have to conjure those miracles just to beat the meh teams.  These last two games are against teams that aren't meh.  They're not playoff teams.  But they're not meh.  I'm gonna say we lose them both.

And that doesn't mean that this season was terrible, or that Ballard needs to be fired, or whatever.  We achieved a heck of a lot more than we thought we would at the start of the season.  And we have building blocks to achieve more after this.

But I think we've driven this car, this year, with this many missing pieces, about as far as it can drive.

(Go ahead, Colts.  Prove me wrong.  Please.)

I agree. I bet we lose both games. This colts team is too inconsistent….and really…..just not good enough to be a legit contender.  I think everyone can agree this team overachieved all things considered. I’ll admit I’ll be super excited if we somehow beat the raiders though! Lol! 

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:32 AM, John Hammonds said:

I know I'll be called a Downer for this, but...

I'm gonna go glass half empty.  I don't believe we will win either of these last two games.

We are a "pretty good" team, that can normally beat the bad teams we play, and can sometimes get that miracle game against a good team, but with as many guys as we have on IR, we have to conjure those miracles just to beat the meh teams.  These last two games are against teams that aren't meh.  They're not playoff teams.  But they're not meh.  I'm gonna say we lose them both.

And that doesn't mean that this season was terrible, or that Ballard needs to be fired, or whatever.  We achieved a heck of a lot more than we thought we would at the start of the season.  And we have building blocks to achieve more after this.

But I think we've driven this car, this year, with this many missing pieces, about as far as it can drive.

(Go ahead, Colts.  Prove me wrong.  Please.)

I expect each season for our gm to put together a roster that can compete to win the afc south. so far I have been disappointed under ballards command until this season, have to win out colts

[1959Colts]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Plays from under center in the first half:

 

1st quarter:

10:54, 2nd and 8, play action, incomplete pass

7:42, 1st and 10, toss right to Taylor, 0 yards

 

2nd quarter:

13:42, 1st and 10, handoff middle, 0 yards

3:23, 1st and 10, double fake, screen, incomplete pass

 

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. Two runs from under center, two play fakes from under center, zero success. To your point, if we tried to get the run game going with plays from under center, not just sporadically doing it as a wrinkle, it could have an impact. But the small sample size from the Falcons game isn't encouraging.

Ok. Glad you found that. Thanks for putting up the quarters and times. I just went and re-watched.

 

From under center, they ran one toss, and one handoff. And the other two tries were pass attempts.

That being said, with only one handoff (and one toss)... the sample size, certainly is too small to judge our running capabilities from under center.

To support my position, a good game to rewatch, would be the second half of the Steelers game. When SS called like 17 straight running plays, many of which, were from under center. During this period, the Colts were able to take control of the line of scrimmage, and the whole team fed off of it.

 

Actually, I am happy you found they at least tried two runs. It gives me a little bit of hope, that Steichen is not completely committed to running everything, solely, out of the shotgun.  As usual, I will be closely watching the way they line up Sunday vs Raiders.

I read, the last time we played Las Vegas, Jonathon Taylor had a huge game, (in Jeff Saturdays one and only win)

Hopefully, right from the first series, (knowing the Raiders have a strong pass rush, led by Crosby) they won't come out passing almost every down... and will give JT a mix of formations to run behind, trying to get him on track, in order to establish our running game.