More bad secondary play

[2006Coltsbestever]

I wonder what our record would be if we had Gilmore all year? Maybe 5-3 which just irks me. Oh well!

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wonder what our record would be if we had Gilmore all year? Maybe 5-3 which just irks me. Oh well!

Trading Gilmore was a sign that Ballard did not expect to contend for the AFC South Division title.  Why do fans expect us to contend when the FO didn't even make the necessary investments this year?  He's obviously invested for the future, not the present.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Trading Gilmore was a sign that Ballard did not expect to contend for the AFC South Division title.  Why do fans expect us to contend when the FO didn't even make the necessary investments this year?  He's obviously invested for the future, not the present.

Yeah, I disagreed with that move by Ballard. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah, I disagreed with that move by Ballard. 

But you often post like we are primed to go to the SB.  Even Ballard doesn't think that, and he's built the team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

But you often post like we are primed to go to the SB.  Even Ballard doesn't think that, and he's built the team.

lol. I have never once posted that we are primed to go to the SB. How do you translate my 8-8-1 prediction into me thinking we are primed to go to the SB? That is interesting. I have posted at times that we could make the playoffs if things go our way. 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

lol. I have never once posted that we are primed to go to the SB. How do you translate my 8-8-1 prediction into me thinking we are primed to go to the SB? That is interesting. I have posted at times that we could make the playoffs if things go our way. 

But your prediction was probably made after Ballard traded Gilmore. 

 

 Ballard traded Gilmore because he figured we would NOT be in AFC South Title contention even with him.  You probably did think we would be with him, as indicated by your posts a few minutes ago.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

But your prediction was probably made after Ballard traded Gilmore. 

 

 Ballard traded Gilmore because he figured we would NOT be in AFC South Title contention even with him.  You probably did think we would be with him, as indicated by your posts a few minutes ago.  

No, with Gilmore I would have felt like we could maybe win the division. I have never remotely thought going into this season that we were SB contenders even had we had Gilmore, especially with a rookie QB. I picked the Ravens to win the SB before the season started. I had them and the Chiefs playing the AFC Title Game regardless. I also had teams like Cincy and the Bills as being better than us. 

[DougDew]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No, with Gilmore I would have felt like we could maybe win the division. I have never remotely thought going into this season that we were SB contenders even had we had Gilmore, especially with a rookie QB. I picked the Ravens to win the SB before the season started. I had them and the Chiefs playing the AFC Title Game regardless. I also had teams like Cincy and the Bills as being better than us. 

Whatever level you expect them to achieve is not relevant.  I threw out SB to make a point.  Lets not turn the convo into that.

 

Your assessment of the Colts chances to win a lot of games is/was higher than Ballard's.  That's why you disagree with him trading Gilmore.   

[throwing BBZ]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Trading Gilmore was a sign that Ballard did not expect to contend for the AFC South Division title.  Why do fans expect us to contend when the FO didn't even make the necessary investments this year?  He's obviously invested for the future, not the present.

 

  Gee, we have about $10M in cap space left, with Pittman, Grover, Moore, Franklin, Speed becoming FA.

 Ballard has addressed every position, with this season being the beginning of the next team build. 

 In 2026, when we might be SB contenders again, 15-20 of our current players will be here.

 And that will not include a few of our current better `higher salaried' players.

 We have a few great fans that can't help it that they look at our prospects with Blue colored glasses.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Whatever level you expect them to achieve is not relevant.  I threw out SB to make a point.  Lets not turn the convo into that.

 

Your assessment of the Colts chances to win a lot of games is/was higher than Ballard's.  That's why you disagree with him trading Gilmore.   

So you don't think Ballard didn't think we could win at least 8 games? Also you are the one that threw out SB talk looking foolish, so I am not throwing nothing out! You started the SB talk to try and make me look an *. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So you don't think Ballard didn't think we could win at least 8 games? Also you are the one that throughout SB looking foolish so I am not throwing nothing out! You started the SB talk to try and make me look an *. 

I have no idea how many games Ballard expected the Colts to win.  He knew it was a nonplayoff year so he sold Gilmore.....like many are wanting him to do now with other players.   You sell vets when you think the season is a wash...not because you think its a contender.  Fans are now catching up to Ballard's position.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I have no idea how many games Ballard expected the Colts to win.  He knew it was a nonplayoff year so he sold Gilmore.....like many are wanting him to do now with other players.   You sell vets when you think the season is a wash...not because you think its a contender.  Fans are now catching up to Ballard's position.

 

I can't control what the FO does, whatever they want to do is out of my control. If we trade Moss or whoever or even trade Mustache for a low pick, it is what it is. We aren't SB contenders anyway so really our whole discussion is moot.

[throwing BBZ]

49 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah, I disagreed with that move by Ballard. 

 

 This just makes apparent that our leadership and Gilmore anticipated maybe

6-7 wins. So with respect for Gilmore at this point in his career, we sent him to a contender. I would wager this possibility was part of the discussion getting him to come here.

 JMO that our Leadership would prefer winning 5 games rather than 7.

We need a host of new high quality prospects over the next 3 years.

[rockywoj]

Am I mistaken in the Gilmore wanted out, so Ballard accommodated him?  I don’t think this was a case of Ballard just out of the blue trading the team’s best CB, so imho, all this chatter slagging VpBallard for trading Gilmore is basically out of line.  GM did the vet a solid by accommodating the vets desire to be moved.  Respect.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I disagree with they were playing “well”. Was Rodgers better than Facyson last year? Absolutely. But like I was saying in another topic, these are guys who made a handful of good plays and he just bet the house on. They showed no type of consistent production. JuJu Brents had played better than any of those guys in his first 4 starts before injuries. Even though EJ Speed and Grover were late round picks from small schools, you gotta be realistic. There’s a reason why those guys go late in the draft. I never got the Rodgers or Flowers hype. What’s weird is the similar rises to being starters.

 

Both were guys who had elite speed and started on special teams. Made a couple of really nice plays as returners and had a handful of defensive plays were they were solid against lower competition and got dubbed as the starter going forward. IMO Rogers and Flowers were always depth guys. Not starters.

They were young and yes maybe a mistake here and there. But they weren’t getting beat like we are seeing now. They were guys you can grow with. 

1 minute ago, rockywoj said:

Am I mistaken in the Gilmore wanted out, so Ballard accommodated him?  I don’t think this was a case of Ballard just out of the blue trading the team’s best CB, so imho, all this chatter slagging VpBallard for trading Gilmore is basically out of line.  GM did the vet a solid by accommodating the vets desire to be moved.  Respect.

Yes he asked for a trade.

[Indeee]

Colts 247.2

Eagles 247.5

 

All in all, yes, our secondary stinks but so does the 2023 Eagles.

 

They are just as putrid. Giving up .3 yards more per game than our Colts through 7 games, yet they are 7-1. Why?

 

I will tell you why AJ Brown. A true alpha 1 receiver. Yes Hurts is there too, however, the alpha receiver is what the current Colts have been needing for years now. 

 

Don't fool yourselves about Corner Backs. 

 

We need an alpha receiver. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Colts 247.2

Eagles 247.5

 

All in all, yes, our secondary stinks but so does the 2023 Eagles.

 

They are just as putrid. Giving up .3 yards more per game than our Colts through 7 games, yet they are 7-1. Why?

 

I will tell you why AJ Brown. A true alpha 1 receiver. Yes Hurts is there too, however, the alpha receiver is what the current Colts have been needing for years now. 

 

Don't fool yourselves about Corner Backs. 

 

We need an alpha receiver. 

Eagles also have a healthy great QB. That makes all the difference.

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Colts 247.2

Eagles 247.5

 

All in all, yes, our secondary stinks but so does the 2023 Eagles.

 

They are just as putrid. Giving up .3 yards more per game than our Colts through 7 games, yet they are 7-1. Why?

 

I will tell you why AJ Brown. A true alpha 1 receiver. Yes Hurts is there too, however, the alpha receiver is what the current Colts have been needing for years now. 

 

Don't fool yourselves about Corner Backs. 

 

We need an alpha receiver. 

It is because they have a great QB who can mask other problems. Until people listen to me when I say you need a very good - Great QB to win a SB, they will never learn. 

 

Since 2014, here are the teams that have won a SB:

2014 - Brady

2015 - Peyton = he still played a very good game vs the Pats in the playoffs. Even at 75% of his old self, he was still very good at times.

 

2016 - Brady

2017 - Foles

2018 - Brady

2019 - Mahomes

2020 - Brady

2021 - Stafford

2022 - Mahomes

-All are Hall of Famers (even Stafford will get in), except Foles. Foles in the one outlier, but 8 of the last 9 SB winners are Hall of Famers or will be. That is 88.9% of the teams that win the big one. Hurts made the SB last year and barely lost to Mahomes.

[Solid84]

19 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Colts 247.2

Eagles 247.5

 

All in all, yes, our secondary stinks but so does the 2023 Eagles.

 

They are just as putrid. Giving up .3 yards more per game than our Colts through 7 games, yet they are 7-1. Why?

 

I will tell you why AJ Brown. A true alpha 1 receiver. Yes Hurts is there too, however, the alpha receiver is what the current Colts have been needing for years now. 

 

Don't fool yourselves about Corner Backs. 

 

We need an alpha receiver. 

Their defense actually plays bend but don’t break, we play bend and break….

 

We’ve given up 229 points, they’ve given up 172. 

[smittywerb]

13 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Their defense actually plays bend but don’t break, we play bend and break….

 

We’ve given up 229 points, they’ve given up 172. 

Yup, they’ve also made a purpose to create a good pass rush by drafting and signing talent and going out and a getting true number one receiver.  Two things ballard has yet to do.

 

also add in Gus refuses to blitz.  Even if defensive backs are bad, you still have to try and create pressure.  I’d rather go down trying than to just not try at all.

[PeterBowman]

23 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is because they have a great QB who can mask other problems. Until people listen to me when I say you need a very good - Great QB to win a SB, they will never learn. 

 

Since 2014, here are the teams that have won a SB:

2014 - Brady

2015 - Peyton = he still played a very good game vs the Pats in the playoffs. Even at 75% of his old self, he was still very good at times.

 

2016 - Brady

2017 - Foles

2018 - Brady

2019 - Mahomes

2020 - Brady

2021 - Stafford

2022 - Mahomes

-All are Hall of Famers (even Stafford will get in), except Foles. Foles in the one outlier, but 8 of the last 9 SB winners are Hall of Famers or will be. That is 88.9% of the teams that win the big one. Hurts made the SB last year and barely lost to Mahomes.

Yep that's true unless you have a generational defense like Baltimore, Seattle Legion of Boom era, etc you need an upper echelon qb.

[Scott Pennock]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I disagree with they were playing “well”. Was Rodgers better than Facyson last year? Absolutely. But like I was saying in another topic, these are guys who made a handful of good plays and he just bet the house on. They showed no type of consistent production. JuJu Brents had played better than any of those guys in his first 4 starts before injuries. Even though EJ Speed and Grover were late round picks from small schools, you gotta be realistic. There’s a reason why those guys go late in the draft. I never got the Rodgers or Flowers hype. What’s weird is the similar rises to being starters.

 

Both were guys who had elite speed and started on special teams. Made a couple of really nice plays as returners and had a handful of defensive plays were they were solid against lower competition and got dubbed as the starter going forward. IMO Rogers and Flowers were always depth guys. Not starters.

"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude

[CR91]

If I'm Ballard after watching a nobody get 153 yards on three catches on you to basically win the game, I'm calling up Denver and acquiring on Surtain. Brents is good, but right now corner is a huge liability 

[IndySouthsider]

Will say this. Tony Brown is mentally tough. Lol, why he gotta be a good dude?

 

 

[Patrick Miller]

There has GOT to be a vet out there in free agency we can bring in that’s at least competent or better than Brown. 

[Stephen]

21 hours ago, basspapaw said:

Brown needs to be cut he can't cover anyone then gives them yards and new sets of downs on stupid penalties, IS HIS BACKUP THAT BAD

If the secondary  was going to be  this bad might as well had kept Darius rush

[sb41champs]

More INEXPERIENCED cornerback play.

 

Too many things have happened since the offseason which has impacted both the quality and depth at the cornerback position.

 

As such - the defense is going to be in "air raid" mode.

[smittywerb]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

If the secondary  was going to be  this bad might as well had kept Darius rush

IM SAYING!  Like how bad was he? LOL 

[cdgacoltsfan]

Baker Jr was at least covering receivers and had a couple bogus penalties called on him to cost us the Browns game. 

Brown was no where near receivers. I saw him stumble and get his feet tangled up a couple times and miss a few tackles.

I'd rather have Baker at CB.

Baker Jr was at least covering receivers and had a couple bogus penalties called on him to cost us the Browns game. 

Brown was no where near receivers. I saw him stumble and get his feet tangled up a couple times and miss a few tackles.

I'd rather have Baker at CB.

[Scott Pennock]

As a follow-up to my previous post about CB's on other teams practice squads (and one on ours already) that could boost our secondary if they were to cut Brown and Baker............. I'd love to see any two of those take a roster spot. I mean, what could it hurt?

 

Darren Hall - Colts            6'0" & 190    10 Starts                         
Amani Oruwariye - Jags            6'2" & 200    36 Starts
Michael Ojemudia - Rams            6'1" & 200    12 Starts
Cam Dantzler - Saints            6'2" & 188    26 Starts           
 

Then there is a street free agent available

 

Greedy Williams      6'2" & 185 21 Starts