Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You know what's interesting about this? I don't even think the Colts mind paying a RB top level money. Maybe Steichen does, but Ballard and Irsay would do it. The main reason they haven't is Taylor's ankle, and the second reason is probably because Steichen is telling them to wait and see how the offense looks with Richardson running the show before they lock in major money for a RB.

 

So paying Leonard is irrelevant. They paid him happily, and would have paid Taylor as well.

Maybe. I just wouldn't have paid Leonard all that and I love Leonard. I agree that this more than likely has to do with whatever injury is correct here with Taylor and the Colts wanting him healthy b4 committing. It's just easier sometimes when a player views money given to other positions on a team and relating it to what they deem they deserve as well. If I'm Taylor I'm looking at the money shelled out to Leanord and Nelson and being like cm'on brah? 

[Indyfan4life]

1 hour ago, 1959Colts said:

 

...So how many pages will this thread be by Halloween?

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

11 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Going to be fun when Ballard speaks WED no matter which way this goes.

ballard won’t say anything of substance. 

[Indeee]

 

[stitches]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I first want to question that expected WAR, historically speaking. You're thinking you'd get WAR 0.5 from the 12th-15th ranked WR, in Years 1-3? I'm thinking that guy is just as likely to be a non factor as he is to be a real contributor.

I was making up a hypothetical scenario. Not sure what the exact numbers are in any draft. But yes... WRs nowadays produce relatively quickly too. We've had really strong rookie seasons(and by extension rookie contracts) from numerous late 1st -2nd round WRs. 

 

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

Whereas drafting the 4th-5th ranked RB, I'm expecting him to be a major contributor in Years 1-3, and I think that would work out to him having a higher WAR than the WR taken in the same range. And there's probably less variance among the RBs than there is among the WRs in that range.

 

If my thinking there is flawed based on the historic WAR for those players drafted in similar ranges, then it's time to reevaluate.

First of all, I have not looked at the actual numbers, but I would be shocked if RBs taken at the same range as WRs in the draft have higher WAR year 1-3 than the WRs. It just doesn't make sense with everything we know about the value of the positions. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Maybe. I just wouldn't have paid Leonard all that and I love Leonard. I agree that this more than likely has to do with whatever injury is correct here with Taylor and the Colts wanting him healthy b4 committing. It's just easier sometimes when a player views money given to other positions on a team and relating it to what they deem they deserve as well. If I'm Taylor I'm looking at the money shelled out to Leanord and Nelson and being like cm'on brah? 

 

Yeah, to me this is like people who blame every injury on the turf, when some of these injuries are just traumatic hits that would result in injury no matter what surface you're on. People draw lines between unrelated events all the time, and I think this is one of them. Because even though I think NFL teams should lean heavily into positional value, I don't think Irsay and Ballard have done so, and based on their comments about Taylor over the last couple months, I don't think they were planning on doing so any time soon.

[stitches]

@Superman Do you have PFF Elite or whatever their service is called nowadays? Can you check what Taylor and Pittman's WAR is for those first 3 years? I would guess they are similar but not sure(if I had to bet I'd bet Pittman has higher WAR)... Maybe I'm wrong...

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

I was making up a hypothetical scenario. Not sure what the exact numbers are in any draft. But yes... WRs nowadays produce relatively quickly too. We've had really strong rookie seasons from numerous late 1st -2nd round WRs. 

 

First of all, I have not looked at the actual numbers, but I would be shocked if RBs taken at the same range as WRs in the draft have higher WAR year 1-3 than the WRs. It just doesn't make sense with everything we know about the value of the positions. 

 

There are outliers either way. For every AJ Brown, there's a Jalen Reagor...

 

But who has the higher WAR, Pittman or Taylor? Drafted the same year, Pittman was injured Year 1, Taylor was injured Year 3... Pittman was drafted at #34, the 8th WR taken. Taylor was drafted at #41, the 3rd RB taken.

 

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

@Superman Do you have PFF Elite or whatever their service is called nowadays? Can you check what Taylor and Pittman's WAR is for those first 3 years? I would guess they are similar but not sure... Maybe I'm wrong...

 

I don't, I've been debating whether to subscribe again. I usually do for a little while every year, but they change their services so often...

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

There are outliers either way. For every AJ Brown, there's a Jalen Reagor...

They are busts at WR for sure... but just the same there are busts at RB too. Clyde Edwards Helaire, Swift... the two RBs taken before Taylor. By expected WAR I mean the average/median you can expect from a player at that position. Some would be higher, some would be lower. 

 

1 minute ago, Superman said:

But who has the higher WAR, Pittman or Taylor? Drafted the same year, Pittman was injured Year 1, Taylor was injured Year 3... Pittman was drafted at #34, the 8th WR taken. Taylor was drafted at #41, the 3rd RB taken.

 

 

I don't, I've been debating whether to subscribe again. I usually do for a little while every year, but they change their services so often...

Yeah... I had it for a year, but decided to not renew it... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Hopefully this is over by 4 pm tomorrow. I hate this deck cloud over what is supposed to be a exciting time.

[danlhart87]

Reporter: Mr. Irsay could you tell us about the Jonathan Taylor situation and if the Colts are closer to a trade?

 

Irsay:

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think a major difference is how we define "premium pick." To me, premium is top 15-20, depending on the year. 

 

Setting aside that distinction, I think there's a lot of meat in the 20-60 range of the draft, and I agree that we need to get more contributions from our picks in that range. But JT is one of the best, most productive picks we've made in that range, despite being a RB. I'd rather have 3-4 years of a RB, and then trade him for a top 75-ish pick (and we'll probably do better than that if we trade JT right now), than the four years of nothing we got from Ben Banogu.

 

I think R2 is the sweet spot for RB is because I think players who would be considered top 10-15 talents in any draft class are being drafted in the second round, simply because they play RB. Compare that to QB, where raw prospects who should probably be ranked in the 30-50 range strictly based on talent and production are going in the top five, simply because they play QB (Trey Lance, for instance). Taking a RB in that range is where you can get a blue chip prospect at a major discount. 

 

Taking a RB in R4, when positional value has started to equalize, you're probably getting a R4 level talent. Not bad value, but no value added, either.

If you want to call picks 15-20 premium picks, fine.   But let’s agree that picks in R’s 1-3 are more valuable than picks in R’s 4-7.   It’s true on its face.   The best players typically come from the first three rounds.   We should be able to agree on that.  
 

So with that as a backdrop I’d prefer a somewhat less talented R4 RB than the potential drama and angst that we have now.   I’d like to try and not repeat this nightmare.   I don’t want to churn a Day 2 RB and only get 3-4 years with that player.  I think it’s counter-productive in the long run for the good of the roster.  I want more impact from my first three rounds. 
 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

So with that as a backdrop I’d prefer a somewhat less talented R4 RB than the potential drama and angst that we have now.   I’d like to try and not repeat this nightmare.  

 

Accepting that we both think we need more out of the first three rounds, no matter how we define those picks...

 

Back to my earlier question, what prevents a R4 RB from holding out after Year 3?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

You know what's interesting about this? I don't even think the Colts mind paying a RB top level money. Maybe Steichen does, but Ballard and Irsay would do it. The main reason they haven't is Taylor's ankle, and the second reason is probably because Steichen is telling them to wait and see how the offense looks with Richardson running the show before they lock in major money for a RB.

 

So paying Leonard is irrelevant. They paid him happily, and would have paid Taylor as well.

I think Kevin Bowen is the only one I have heard say maybe Steichen has a big part in him not getting extended yet.

[Moe]

57 minutes ago, Indeee said:

 

I think he’s going to be pretty disappointed with those Jimmy Dean breakfast burritos!

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Accepting that we both think we need more out of the first three rounds, no matter how we define those picks...

 

Back to my earlier question, what prevents a R4 RB from holding out after Year 3?

Nothing.    Absolutely nothing.  
 

But if you think you can more easily replace your above average R4 RB with another, or with an inexpensive FA, then there’s much much less drama surrounding the hold out.  I don’t want a holdout from one of my top players, I’d prefer one from one of my mid-level players. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Nothing.    Absolutely nothing.  
 

But if you think you can more easily replace your above average R4 RB with another, or with an inexpensive FA, then there’s much much less drama surrounding the hold out.  I don’t want a holdout from one of my top players, I’d prefer one from one of my mid-level players. 

 

Just saying, if you a RB in R4, and he plays like JT has played, he's going to be one of your top players. And he's just as likely to want a new contract after Year 3 as a R2 RB will. Maybe more likely, because he will have made less money on his R4 contract.

[JColts72]

Mystery team? Agent bogus talk. Take a guess besides Dolphins and Eagles;Chiefs?

Edited August 28, 2023 by JColts72
Update

[Chrisaaron1023]

Lol one headline "Jonathan Taylor likely to be traded soon"

 

Headline underneath

 

"Taylor trade does appear close" 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Just saying, if you a RB in R4, and he plays like JT has played, he's going to be one of your top players. And he's just as likely to want a new contract after Year 3 as a R2 RB will. Maybe more likely, because he will have made less money on his R4 contract.

 

Fair and true….

I think that’s an unexpected problem that I’d be willing to put up with.   I can live with that headache.  
 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Lol one headline "Jonathan Taylor likely to be traded soon"

 

Headline underneath

 

"Taylor trade does appear close" 

 

That headline that said he was likely to be traded soon left off the part where rap sheet said if colts get the right offer lol. Not that it was close.

[danlhart87]

11 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Mystery team? Agent bogus talk. Take a guess besides Dolphins and Eagles;Chiefs?

Saskatchewan 

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, Mikemccoy84 said:

Pittman is on same type of contract and looking at a big payday as well if you give Taylor money are you upset if Pittman turns around and asks for more or sits.

I don’t know

 

I think Pittman is a valuable as aWR2

 

but not a top 20WR in the league 

 

He shouldn’t ( hopefully ) expect top 5 WR money

 

[richard pallo]

16 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Mystery team? Agent bogus talk. Take a guess besides Dolphins and Eagles;Chiefs?

I'll guess  Bills.

[Jackie Daytona]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This is interesting. So colts changing their mind about giving Taylor more money or willing to trade him for what ever they get.

 

 

No, he's just saying that watching Taylor flip from good guy to the villain has been entertaining for him personally to watch.  It's a wrestling analogy.  I don't see how it has anything to do with any change for either Taylor or the Team.....  the "heel turn" was Taylor going from "I signed a deal and I'm committed" to "I demand a trade". That's been done for a while....

[JColts72]

29 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Saskatchewan 

CFL

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

35 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I don’t know

 

I think Pittman is a valuable as aWR2

 

but not a top 20WR in the league 

 

He shouldn’t ( hopefully ) expect top 5 WR money

 

Pittman knows there is a big market at WR in FA. He will get $20 million whether he is with the colts are not. WR market is different then RB market.

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, Jonmal7 said:

I live in the Philly area. They hated Sanders out here. Sanders was terrible after contact. Rated as one of the worst in the league. The Philly oline made him get his numbers. JT is way better than Sanders.

No way they go after JT. Just not needed

[MikeCurtis]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Pittman knows there is a big market at WR in FA. He will get $20 million whether he is with the colts are not. WR market is different then RB market.

I hope that you are right for Pittman sake. 
 

If he has 1000-1200 yards you may be right

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072247-michael-pittman-jr-says-colts-contract-isnt-a-goal-itll-happen-eventually#:~:text=Spotrac estimates Pittman's market value,when it comes to Pittman.

 

Here is spotrac estimates which is more that I estimated 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you want to call picks 15-20 premium picks, fine.   But let’s agree that picks in R’s 1-3 are more valuable than picks in R’s 4-7.   It’s true on its face.   The best players typically come from the first three rounds.   We should be able to agree on that.  
 

So with that as a backdrop I’d prefer a somewhat less talented R4 RB than the potential drama and angst that we have now.   I’d like to try and not repeat this nightmare.   I don’t want to churn a Day 2 RB and only get 3-4 years with that player.  I think it’s counter-productive in the long run for the good of the roster.  I want more impact from my first three rounds. 
 

I think when Ballard drafted Taylor, they envisioned some that of old style offense. The focus of the O being on line and rb. That's drastically changed under Steichen. I really don'tblame Ballard for adressing Reich's need thru the draft. Plus, I just think Taylor's contract extension came at a bad time. The RB market has fallen.

[IndyEric07]

Colts fans waiting to see if JT is lying about his ankle injury like…

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hope that you are right for Pittman sake. 
 

If he has 1000-1200 yards you may be right

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10072247-michael-pittman-jr-says-colts-contract-isnt-a-goal-itll-happen-eventually#:~:text=Spotrac estimates Pittman's market value,when it comes to Pittman.

 

Here is spotrac estimates which is more that I estimated 

 

Kirk didn’t even have 1k yards ever and got 20 million.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think when Ballard drafted Taylor, they envisioned some that of old style offense. The focus of the O being on line and rb. That's drastically changed under Steichen. I really don'tblame Ballard for adressing Reich's need thru the draft. Plus, I just think Taylor's contract extension came at a bad time. The RB market has fallen.

You think Steichen doesn’t value the O-line as much as Ballard?   
 

Philadelphia has the number one or two ranked OL unit in the entire NFL.   Steichen values the O-line far more than you think.   They’re talented and highly paid.  The only difference is the Eagles unit has been able to stay healthy.   That’s it.   If the Colts unit had stayed healthy, we’d all be having an entirely different conversation.  

[BeanDiasucci]

2 hours ago, Indeee said:

Maybe. I just wouldn't have paid Leonard all that and I love Leonard. I agree that this more than likely has to do with whatever injury is correct here with Taylor and the Colts wanting him healthy b4 committing. It's just easier sometimes when a player views money given to other positions on a team and relating it to what they deem they deserve as well. If I'm Taylor I'm looking at the money shelled out to Leanord and Nelson and being like cm'on brah? 

The Colts signed kicker Matt Gay for more than Taylor makes, too.

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think when Ballard drafted Taylor, they envisioned some that of old style offense. The focus of the O being on line and rb. That's drastically changed under Steichen. I really don'tblame Ballard for adressing Reich's need thru the draft. Plus, I just think Taylor's contract extension came at a bad time. The RB market has fallen.

A good GM always acquires talents that compliment and benefit their coaches' schemes. 

 

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You think Steichen doesn’t value the O-line as much as Ballard?   
 

Philadelphia has the number one or two ranked OL unit in the entire NFL.   Steichen values the O-line far more than you think.   They’re talented and highly paid.  The only difference is the Eagles unit has been able to stay healthy.   That’s it.   If the Colts unit had stayed healthy, we’d all be having an entirely different conversation.  

The Bengals could've won their first Super Bowl a few years ago had their LT stayed healthy. Instead Donald and the Rams massacred them. 

[indyagent17]

Wow Pittman would be WR3 on some teams. He needs to have a great season to even be in the conversation

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Just saying, if you a RB in R4, and he plays like JT has played, he's going to be one of your top players. And he's just as likely to want a new contract after Year 3 as a R2 RB will. Maybe more likely, because he will have made less money on his R4 contract.

Agreed…in fact it would be easier to hold out because he is making peanuts compared to a first or second rd back. What’s the point of playing if you’re only going to make say a half a million? Sit out til week 11 or whatever and then come in to work. His weekly paycheck would be like 50 grand. 4 million may not be much compared to 15 million JT wants but still sitting and losing paychecks that are worth a quarter of a million or whatever is significant.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Jackie Daytona said:

No, he's just saying that watching Taylor flip from good guy to the villain has been entertaining for him personally to watch.  It's a wrestling analogy.  I don't see how it has anything to do with any change for either Taylor or the Team.....  the "heel turn" was Taylor going from "I signed a deal and I'm committed" to "I demand a trade". That's been done for a while....

It isn’t a good analogy imo. Taylor holding out doesn’t make him a bad guy…it’s just business. It isn’t like he went from stand up guy and all around good dude to a beating women, cursing out kids, and pushing down grannies. He is still a great dude…just doing what he feels he needs to do to get paid. No sin in that. Might not agree with it but he hasn’t done a single thing wrong.

[Patrick Miller]

I think players should honor their contracts. Why should Irsay pay him more money this year? Let him play out his contract and show he deserves a big contract next year. 

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Wow Pittman would be WR3 on some teams. He needs to have a great season to even be in the conversation

Pitt would be WR3 on a small handful of teams.   He’d be a solid WR2 for most teams.   No Colts player was hurt from our terrible season last year as Pittman was.