Colts Reportedly Interested In Trading Picks, Freeney

[Superman]

That's what the franchise tag is for. With that said it would be at 120% of 14 million or 16.8 million which is far too much.

I thought the tag value was 125% of his current cap hit, or the average of the top five, whichever is higher. No? I thought it was $19 million X 125% = $23.75 million.

[Superman]

Only that you said hes been paid nothing this season ?Dont care about the 5 cant get it back like the other 38 mill in dead but you can better suited players in 3-4 with 14 mill or roll it over.

He hasn't. He was paid the $5 million prorated bonus five years ago when he signed the contract (six years, $72 million, $30 million signing bonus).

The $14 million salary hasn't been paid yet, and that's all he's due at this point. No bonus money is due.

[Dtman513]

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/FREENEY-AT-WORK/094b6e24-567a-403b-b5fe-29e3ebcd1c65

After reading this, I hope the Freeney talk is smoke and mirrors

[FireJimCaldwell]

I thought the tag value was 125% of his current cap hit, or the average of the top five, whichever is higher. No? I thought it was $19 million X 125% = $23.75 million.

I had corrected my mistake of saying 14 million prior to this post. I used base salary as opposed to cap hit.

I believe it's 120% of the previous cap hit, or the average of the top 5 over 5 years or something crazy like that. It's a new rule, and the 120% would apply before the average due to the amount of his cap hit.

I'll double check the 120% vs. the 125%

[FightLikeSin]

Sounds like he's been in contact with Ray Lewis and Suggs. Doesn't sound like he's going anywhere. Asante Samuel got traded for a 7th round pick? You can expect the same for Freeney. I think it's better just to pay the man and get him signed to a more cap friendly contract next year...which we'll have plenty of space for. Good to see Freeney all-smiles.

http://www.colts.com...35-5c86348ad542

[FireJimCaldwell]

I had corrected my mistake of saying 14 million prior to this post. I used base salary as opposed to cap hit.

I believe it's 120% of the previous cap hit, or the average of the top 5 over 5 years or something crazy like that. It's a new rule, and the 120% would apply before the average due to the amount of his cap hit.

I'll double check the 120% vs. the 125%

I thought the tag value was 125% of his current cap hit, or the average of the top five, whichever is higher. No? I thought it was $19 million X 125% = $23.75 million.

120%

Nonexclusive Franchise Tender. The Nonexclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year, which average shall be calculated by: (1) summing the amounts of the Franchise Tags for players at that position for the five preceding League Years; (2) dividing the resulting amount by the sum of the Salary Caps for the five preceding League Years (using the average of the amounts of the 2009 and 2011 Salary Caps as the Salary Cap amount for the 2010 League Year); and (3) multiplying the resulting percentage by the Salary Cap for the upcoming League Year (e.g., when calculating the Tender for the 2012 League Year, dividing the aggregate sum of the Franchise Tags for players at that posi-tion for the 2007–2011 League Years by the aggregate sum of the Salary Caps for the 2007–2011 League Years and multiplying the result by the amount of the Salary Cap for the 2012 League Year) (the “Cap Percentage Average”) (See Appendix E for an illustra-tive example); or (B) 120% of his Prior Year Salary, whichever is greater; if the Club extends the Tender pursuant to this Subsection (a)(i), the player shall be permitted to negotiate a Player Contract with any Club as if he were a player subject to Section 5 below, except that Draft Choice Compensation of two first round draft selections shall be made with respect to such player in the event he signs with the New Club, and the Signing Period for such player shall be determined under Section 14 below. For purposes of this Subsection, the “Franchise Tag” is the average of the five largest Prior Year Sala-ries (e.g., the Franchise Tag for the 2010 League Year equals the average of the five largest Salaries for the 2009 League Year for players at that position);

The example in appendix f didn't format properly.

[MSColtsFan]

Right, sorry about the franchise tag thing FireJim and Superman... I didn't phrase that well. I am working under the assumption that there is no way the Colts franchise him if the rumors of trading him are true. I simply eliminated that as a possibility.

Freeney hasn't restructured or extended, and I have never read anything which suggests the Colts want to extend him, which is why I think the 14 for this year might be the most he'll make for any year in his career.

I agree with you Superman, that on the surface it would seem reasonable, and fairly easy to extend that deal, and actually make it financially rewarding now and in the future for DF. But since that hasn't happened yet, and the little stories keep coming out about trading him, I am of the opinion that he is likely elsewhere in 2013/14 at the latest.

There is plenty of cap room in 2013 and beyond, so perhaps the Colts have been sincere and are doing with DF wwhat they do with almost everyone else - let the contract run the course, re-sign if they can, franchise if they can't, and move on.

[Superman]

http://www.colts.com...fe-29e3ebcd1c65

After reading this, I hope the Freeney talk is smoke and mirrors

I definitely get excited at the thought of him and Mathis really embracing the changes and wrecking offenses, but that's a best case scenario. And I'd still want to see his cap hit lowered with an extension, at the very least.

[Superman]

120%

So that's $19 million X 120% = $22.8 million, right?

Obviously, still waaaay too high. Incredibly prohibitive for any team.

[FireJimCaldwell]

So that's $19 million X 120% = $22.8 million, right?

Obviously, still waaaay too high. Incredibly prohibitive for any team.

Agreed

[CS Colts Fan]

can they franchise him? they franchised Mathis and then signed in 24 hours.. I thought we were only allowed to Franchise 1player per year? or are we now in a new official year since we tagged Mathis?

[Superman]

There is plenty of cap room in 2013 and beyond, so perhaps the Colts have been sincere and are doing with DF wwhat they do with almost everyone else - let the contract run the course, re-sign if they can, franchise if they can't, and move on.

They get more bang for their buck if they extend him right now, and he gets more financial security.

Take the four years, $50 million, with a $15 million signing bonus as an example. You could structure that contract pretty creatively with a significantly lower cap hit, allowing you to add a player here or there.

2012: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $4m base salary = $9.75m cap hit

2013: $3.75m bonus + $8m base salary = $11.75m cap hit

2014: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $5.5m base salary = $11.25m cap hit

2015: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $11.5m base sarly = $17.25m cap hit

That's $29 million in the first two years of the contract. That's like getting his $14 million base salary this year, twice. $15 million is guaranteed up front. He gets another $2 million in about a month. He gets another $4 million in base salary in 2012. That's $21 million this year, all but guaranteed.

[BProland85]

I'll just say this. We should take NOTHING LESS than a high 4th. If we arent offered that, get a 2013 draft pick since we would get a higher pick from a future draft for Freeney.

[Brian Ford]

As I realized a couple days ago, he has been gone from minicamps this week.

Coincidence?

He(Freeney) was actually in camp yesterday. I also would like to see them use him to get 2 or 3 other picks...i understand that we already have 13 but we did lose what 10 guys and got 4 in free agency.

[WesurehavesomeLuck]

it seems like we would be getting only a 6th rounder for him so i sure owuldnt do it

[jskinnz]

I'll just say this. We should take NOTHING LESS than a high 4th. If we arent offered that, get a 2013 draft pick since we would get a higher pick from a future draft for Freeney.

Meanwhile, back on planet earth...

[MSColtsFan]

They get more bang for their buck if they extend him right now, and he gets more financial security.

Take the four years, $50 million, with a $15 million signing bonus as an example. You could structure that contract pretty creatively with a significantly lower cap hit, allowing you to add a player here or there.

2012: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $4m base salary = $9.75m cap hit

2013: $3.75m bonus + $8m base salary = $11.75m cap hit

2014: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $5.5m base salary = $11.25m cap hit

2015: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $11.5m base sarly = $17.25m cap hit

That's $29 million in the first two years of the contract. That's like getting his $14 million base salary this year, twice. $15 million is guaranteed up front. He gets another $2 million in about a month. He gets another $4 million in base salary in 2012. That's $21 million this year, all but guaranteed.

Thanks for the example... and I'm with you, I see the value for all involved to have done this, or to do this soon.

This all gets me back to where we are though. Is that likely? Do we anticipate that happening? I don't. So what the heck to do with him?

I have flipped on this issue so many times I can't remember. It starts with I like DF. I also know he has value. Likewise, his current cap number, and a potential tag number next yeat make him nearly unaffordable as is. Add to this a new position. As has been the case a lot lately, the Colts, who offered the contract, seem to be between a rock and a hard place on Freeney. Find some trade partner, if one exists, and never know if the OLB works out, or lose what you know you have in a 4-3 DE. Cut him and get nothing. Be cap strapped for the season and hope he produces. To me, those options stink. There isn't a pretty one.

[Gavin]

hes not gonna restructure because he is 32 and very likely in his last big money contract and he knows it

[dgambill]

They get more bang for their buck if they extend him right now, and he gets more financial security.

Take the four years, $50 million, with a $15 million signing bonus as an example. You could structure that contract pretty creatively with a significantly lower cap hit, allowing you to add a player here or there.

2012: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $4m base salary = $9.75m cap hit

2013: $3.75m bonus + $8m base salary = $11.75m cap hit

2014: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $5.5m base salary = $11.25m cap hit

2015: $3.75m bonus + $2m 6/1 roster bonus + $11.5m base sarly = $17.25m cap hit

That's $29 million in the first two years of the contract. That's like getting his $14 million base salary this year, twice. $15 million is guaranteed up front. He gets another $2 million in about a month. He gets another $4 million in base salary in 2012. That's $21 million this year, all but guaranteed.

That is a good example of what can be done. Will it? I don't think so until we know more how he fits the team. That said it is more likely we allow his agent to talk to other teams and work out a sign and trade that fits THEIR cap best. Problem is he may not like those offers and he comes back disgruntled.

hes not gonna restructure because he is 32 and very likely in his last big money contract and he knows it

If Freeney knows he is going to get cut there is little cap space for him in free agency to get anywhere near the money he is getting here. It is in his best interest to stay on the team. Then next year get another big contract and that guranteed money. What he has to consider is if he has a poor year in the new system will it hurt his chances of a big contract next year. Should he take less money this year to go somewhere else and play in a 4-3 where his value is known. A lot of questions but in the end I think he stays here. We get little value in moving him. We get more in compensatory picks than what others are giving us. It isn't like Samuels who had 2 years left. He either gets an extension with us or he plays out his contract and is gone. I really don't see how we can move him.

[Gavin]

That is a good example of what can be done. Will it? I don't think so until we know more how he fits the team. That said it is more likely we allow his agent to talk to other teams and work out a sign and trade that fits THEIR cap best. Problem is he may not like those offers and he comes back disgruntled.

If Freeney knows he is going to get cut there is little cap space for him in free agency to get anywhere near the money he is getting here. It is in his best interest to stay on the team. Then next year get another big contract and that guranteed money. What he has to consider is if he has a poor year in the new system will it hurt his chances of a big contract next year. Should he take less money this year to go somewhere else and play in a 4-3 where his value is known. A lot of questions but in the end I think he stays here. We get little value in moving him. We get more in compensatory picks than what others are giving us. It isn't like Samuels who had 2 years left. He either gets an extension with us or he plays out his contract and is gone. I really don't see how we can move him.

I am sure we cant move him but we can cut him, why take a 14 million dollar hit on a guy that only knows one thing and thats rush the passer, there is no way he will be able to guard a Tight End and that will be an assignment he will be responsible for as early as week 4 in the preaseason and again in week 2 in the regular season

[MSColtsFan]

I am sure we cant move him but we can cut him, why take a 14 million dollar hit on a guy that only knows one thing and thats rush the passer, there is no way he will be able to guard a Tight End and that will be an assignment he will be responsible for as early as week 4 in the preaseason and again in week 2 in the regular season

Freeney likely won't be asked to cover much. I don't think anyone thinks he can on a regular basis and succeed.

"New Indianapolis Colts head coach Chuck Pagano believes that DE Dwight Freeney will be able to play a similar role to one played by Terrell Suggs in Baltimore.

“Suggs’ hand is in the dirt way more than he is standing up,” Pagano said, per Dan Pompei of the National Football Post. “I’d be crazy to have those guys dropping more than rushing…. If I dropped Suggs too much, they probably would have fired me midseason.”

This is a great point from Pagano that helps to dispel the notion that Freeney will be playing coverage a decent amount of the time. In fact, Pagano mentions that he only had Suggs drop into coverage between “five and 10 percent of the time.” That’s a pretty reasonable number considering that Freeney’s skill set is more geared towards getting after the quarterback. It should at the very least be interesting to see how well the combo of Freeney and Robert Mathis do in a 3-4 system next year."

http://nfltraderumors.co/colts-envision-de-dwight-freeney-playing-similar-role-to-terrell-suggs/

[Gavin]

Freeney likely won't be asked to cover much. I don't think anyone thinks he can on a regular basis and succeed.

"New Indianapolis Colts head coach Chuck Pagano believes that DE Dwight Freeney will be able to play a similar role to one played by Terrell Suggs in Baltimore.

“Suggs’ hand is in the dirt way more than he is standing up,” Pagano said, per Dan Pompei of the National Football Post. “I’d be crazy to have those guys dropping more than rushing…. If I dropped Suggs too much, they probably would have fired me midseason.”

This is a great point from Pagano that helps to dispel the notion that Freeney will be playing coverage a decent amount of the time. In fact, Pagano mentions that he only had Suggs drop into coverage between “five and 10 percent of the time.” That’s a pretty reasonable number considering that Freeney’s skill set is more geared towards getting after the quarterback. It should at the very least be interesting to see how well the combo of Freeney and Robert Mathis do in a 3-4 system next year."

http://nfltraderumor...-terrell-suggs/

um then who is gonna cover Gronkowski and Hernandez? certainly not our safeties or Corners

[MSColtsFan]

um then who is gonna cover Gronkowski and Hernandez? certainly not our safeties or Corners

The Ravens figured it out, as do almost all other 3-4 teams, so it happens. I'm not suggesting the plan, the transition will work. I simply wanted to pass along what Pagano said he sees as Freeney's role. Which is the Suggs role, which has been discussed elsewhere on this board I know.

[KarlKuffs]

Forgive me, but the hot tater thing is played out. Might want to dream up something else.

Agreed.....although I don't think it was ever "in" except maybe amongst a group of toothless, rural hilljacks.

[jskinnz]

Only that you said hes been paid nothing this season ?Dont care about the 5 cant get it back like the other 38 mill in dead but you can better suited players in 3-4 with 14 mill or roll it over.

You keep saying roll it over and I don' understand that. Can you please explain.

[Superman]

You keep saying roll it over and I don' understand that. Can you please explain.

You can roll your cap space from this season over into next season. So, for instance, if we have $10 million in cap space for 2012 but don't use it, we can increase our 2013 cap by $10 million.

[Jules]

I will believe it all when/if I see it.

[Gavin]

Agreed.....although I don't think it was ever "in" except maybe amongst a group of toothless, rural hilljacks.

Last I thought toothless rural Hilljacks (some of which would even consider Indiana as a whole full of those type stereotypes) have freedom of speech as well

[bahhummbug]

You keep saying roll it over and I don' understand that. Can you please explain.

Do you understand now?Roll Freeney's or unused cap to next year where we have close to 60 mill ATM in cap room.add Freeney's 14 and that would be over 70 mill.

[Superman]

Last I thought toothless rural Hilljacks (some of which would even consider Indiana as a whole full of those type stereotypes) have freedom of speech as well

What does freedom of speech have to do with anything?

[bahhummbug]

Agreed.....although I don't think it was ever "in" except maybe amongst a group of toothless, rural hilljacks.

Really toothless huh how old are you?

[Superman]

Do you understand now?Roll Freeney's or unused cap to next year where we have close to 60 mill ATM in cap room.add Freeney's 14 and that would be over 70 mill.

Let me ask you this: How would you go about spending $70 million in cap space in one offseason?

[Gavin]

What does freedom of speech have to do with anything?

it has to do with everything when its being attacked

[bahhummbug]

Have you saw the list of FAs we have again next year?Easy to spend when your rebuilding.Problems come signing too many big contracts so close to each other like Polian did.I would sign FAs we need to get the final pieces we need to be competitive next year and use the draft for depth so we could stay younger and under cap.

[GoColts8818]

I can see them doing anything this weekend other than not taking Luck if the right deal comes along. I am sure if given the chance they would love to move up and get Fleener based on what I've been reading but they aren't going to reach or make a bad trade to make it happen.

[Superman]

it has to do with everything when its being attacked

Who's freedom of speech is being attacked on a message board?

[Superman]

Have you saw the list of FAs we have again next year?Easy to spend when your rebuilding.Problems come signing too many big contracts so close to each other like Polian did.I would sign FAs we need to get the final pieces we need to be competitive next year and use the draft for depth so we could stay younger and under cap.

You think those contracts would amount to $70 million in cap space in one offseason? I don't. I think that's an inordinate amount of cap space, and an inordinate amount of signing bonuses (which is real, upfront money), for one season.

[Happy2BeHere]

Package Freeney with perhaps 1 or 2 of our later draft picks for a 2nd round this year...that'd be good.

[FireJimCaldwell]

You think those contracts would amount to $70 million in cap space in one offseason? I don't. I think that's an inordinate amount of cap space, and an inordinate amount of signing bonuses (which is real, upfront money), for one season.

That's the key to my opinion. The real cash, to lure guys in on a shopping spree.

[BProland85]

Package Freeney with perhaps 1 or 2 of our later draft picks for a 2nd round this year...that'd be good.

Something like Freeney plus our 5th for some team's 2nd would be fine by me. We would then use our 34th pick to try and get Shea McClellen or Coby Fleener. Then with the other 2 get CB Janoris Jenkins.