How can you trust Ballard?

[mirobi48]

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

I feel like staying put was the right choice for the Colts and moving up was the right choice for the Panthers. We will get one of the top 4 QBs and Ballard and his guys feel like none of the top 4 are significantly better than the rest. The Panthers were completely out of the race for one of the top 4, so they made a move that let's them control the situation. I'd probably have tried moving to 3 instead of 1, but maybe they did and the Cardinals turned it down.

[pgt_rob]

You actually think they haven't done their due diligence on the QBs? You believe that? I don't. I think it's Ballards nice way of saying, none are good enough to move to #1 for.

[Hawkeyecolt]

3 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

You actually think they haven't done their due diligence on the QBs? You believe that? I don't. I think it's Ballards nice way of saying, none are good enough to move to #1 for.

Or we don’t see a big enough difference between #1 and #4 to waste all that draft capital. 

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

Chris Ballard is a top level GM. If the Colts fired him, he would be hired immediately to run another team. 
 

Everything has context, and should be included in the thought process. When Ballard came here, he had to make it about the team. Andrew Luck’s status was all over the place. The goal is to sell tickets too. 
 

That mindset was not wrong, but he had to put some shade on how important the QB is to a team. He built the team in the trenches, and learned that building a football team is a lot more than that. 
 

The lessons Ballard has learned over the last several years, cannot be taught. A person has to experience them. It’s all made him a better GM. 
 

Fans are going to hammer Ballard for everything he does wrong. It’s what fans do. It’s natural. 
 

The bottom line is, it would take years to build a GM to the caliber of Ballard. 
 

Another thing, and I’ve pointed this out many times (although it has mostly fallen on deaf ears), is that Jim Irsay sees himself as a mentor to Chris Ballard. It was different with Bill Tobin and Bill Polian. Tobin and Polian taught Jim Irsay how to build a successful football team. This naturally gives Chris Ballard a much longer leash. 
 

Which is why I said we would not fire Ballard when many thought we would months ago. I could read it all over Jim. I’ve been a fan of this team for 40 years, and know how to read him. I probably had 2 or 3 people agree with me. The rest of you went nuts on me. It is what it is. 

[gspdx]

It really doesn't matter if I trust Ballard.  It doesn't matter if I try to pick his words apart.  It only matters that Irsay trusts Ballard.  And if Irsay doesn't trust Ballard they need to figure it out.

 

This just sounds a bit like GM speak.

[Smonroe]

Moore was a big part of that Carolina deal. They simply had more draft capital.

 

Ballard could have done it, but he probably felt the end didn’t justify the means.

 

The knock on him should be how we spend so much on less valued positions.  But that’s the price you pay when you draft well and want to keep your guys.  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

The full evaluations aren’t done until mid-April.    That’s when the board is set.   
 

Ballard is the chief scout.   And his new HC is a QB whisperer.   You want his input as well.   And since he was just in the Super Bowl, he’s going to be way behind the curve on evaluations. 
 

And since QB is the most important position in the game you don’t want that evaluation made with Ballard and Steichen.  
 

And as others have pointed out, it’s entirely possible that they already have decided that no QB is worth moving up for.  The cost is just too great.  That’s not to say the Colts don’t have a preference, I’m sure they do.    But it’s not worth it to them. 

[NewColtsFan]

41 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I feel like staying put was the right choice for the Colts and moving up was the right choice for the Panthers. We will get one of the top 4 QBs and Ballard and his guys feel like none of the top 4 are significantly better than the rest. The Panthers were completely out of the race for one of the top 4, so they made a move that let's them control the situation. I'd probably have tried moving to 3 instead of 1, but maybe they did and the Cardinals turned it down.

I think Arizona won’t make their final decision on trading down until the actual draft.   Perhaps not even until they’re on the clock.   That will maximize their value.  
 

That would let everyone see who goes 1 and 2,  and everyone is then forced to submit their last and best offer.  

[tfunky14]

All 4 QB are the practically the same. It's hit or miss with each of them. 

Stay at 4 and let our new coach build around whoever they take.  

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think Arizona won’t make their final decision on trading down until the actual draft.   Perhaps not even until they’re on the clock.   That will maximize their value.  
 

That would let everyone see who goes 1 and 2,  and everyone is then forced to submit their last and best offer.  

Correct. That’s how I see it too. 
 

That said, the Colts could overpay early. That would move the needle. 
 

But I’m not sure that’s what the Colts want to do. We don’t know the Colts board. So it’s too hard to tell right now. 
 

If the Colts do overpay, and move up, then it’s probably because they feel very comfortable with 3 Quarterbacks. 
 

If they stay at 4, then it could be a rusher, trade for player, and/or several trade down options. 

[BlueShoe]

8 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

All 4 QB are the practically the same. It's hit or miss with each of them. 

Stay at 4 and let our new coach build around whoever they take.  

 

I disagree. I posted this in another thread, but it works here too. 
 

I think Young and Stroud come off the board at 1 and 2. Young could be the next Drew Brees or he could be the next Murray. Stroud has all the tools, but why would he say that he admires Vick and Watson? Has he been oblivious to everything? As a GM, that would concern the hell out of me. 

 

That leaves Levis, Hooker, and Richardson. 
 

Hooker is the most polished of the 3, and I really like his pocket mobility. There are times when he doesn’t see the rush, but it’s a similar issue I noticed early with Aaron Rodgers, and he can overcame it. Hooker can be very accurate, but he lacks anticipation. Has a strong enough arm, and wheels. While it is not an exact carbon copy, I see a lot of Daniel Jones in Hooker. And he will have the same hurdles in the NFL. But the potential is there. 
 

Levis has a huge upside. Strong arm and mobile enough. He is very cocky though. It might be hard to teach this guy how to leave his ego at the door of the quarterback room. Guys like this tend to have leadership issues. People can overcome this, but they normally don’t. If he can then his upside is similar to Josh Allen. 
 

Richardson is very raw, and he is one of the most inaccurate quarterbacks I’ve ever seen mentioned as a top 5 pick. He is an athletic freak. One rule to always remember is, you are either born with accuracy or you’re not. This is not something people usually improve drastically with. I think he is going to struggle in the NFL, and it’s all going to be linked to his ability to put the football in the right place. 
 

If Levis is off the board, then I’m taking BPA or bouncing out of that 4th pick. And there would need to be some very good interviews with Levis, to convince me that he is the guy. 
 

I would most likely either make a path to get Hooker, or arrange a deal for Lamar. And if all else fails, I’d be okay to ride with Minshew in 23. 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs. 

Did he actually say that?

[BlueShoe]

Just now, DougDew said:

Did he actually say that?

He didn’t. It’s some of Ballards words, but scrambled and taken out of context. 
 

Ballard said that the Colts were not yet convinced (at the time Carolina made the move) that any QB warranted trading up to number 1 for. 
 

Context and comprehension are so important. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

were not yet convinced (at the time Carolina made the move)

Isn't that the same thing as OPs interpretation?

 

The Colts were slower than CAR in knowing if they should trade up or stay put.

 

That's different than what some are saying here (running to quickly defend Ballard per usual)..... that he did finish his due diligence enough to know that it wasn't worth moving up.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

 

 We have a proven record regarding QB analysis. We fired our last Guru.

This is why I keep pounding the table that Steichen IS the new Best mind in the building to set our QB board. 

 Ballard and his staff can supply all the video he needs, and do the background research. Then sit down at the table and let him explain it to them on a need to know basis.

[Goatface Killah]

Ballard came here to build a team around Andrew Luck. Season 1? He is hurt and we have a horrible year under a coaching staff Ballard didnt hire.

 

 

Then he gets Luck back. We go on to have a pretty good season and a major turnaround after a practically unprecendented DB move by Josh McDaniels backing out of a coaching job.

 

Then Luck suddenly retires.....We go on to have a pretty good season under those circumstances and barely miss the playoffs. 

 

He rights the ship the following year and lands Rivers who comes in and gets us back in the playoffs. Rivers retires, not because he wants to, but because of the NFLs mask policy.

 

Ballard is forced, yet again, to address the QB position. He is under pressure from his HC to go after Carson Wentz, who is really close with Reich. After a dissapointing season.......where we should have been in the playoffs.......the owner is clearly not happy with the decision and they are moving on once again.

 

With few options available, they decide to take a chance on an aging, former MVP in Matt Ryan. They have a horrible season and the owner decides to make a change at HC mid season. They crumble down the stretch.

 

I dont know any GMs that could succeed under those circumstances. He has been forced to change QBs 3 seperate times in his time here.

 

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Isn't that the same thing as OPs interpretation?

 

The Colts were slower than CAR in knowing if they should trade up or stay put.

 

That's different than what some are saying here (running to quickly defend Ballard per usual)..... that he did finish his due diligence enough to know that it wasn't worth moving up.

Most likely Carolina jumped the gun, to get into position. At the time, they probably didn’t know who they would take. They might not even know right now. They paid a ransom to get up there. 
 

It’s a different thought process. The Colts were sitting at 4, with a great shot to get a top QB. The Panthers were on the outside looking in. They weren’t even in the game. 
 

The Panthers felt the risk was worth it. The Colts were not there yet. 

[Jackie Daytona]

21 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Hooker is the most polished of the 3, and I really like his pocket mobility. There are times when he doesn’t see the rush, but it’s a similar issue I noticed early with Aaron Rodgers, and he can overcame it. Hooker can be very accurate, but he lacks anticipation. Has a strong enough arm, and wheels. While it is not an exact carbon copy, I see a lot of Daniel Jones in Hooker. And he will have the same hurdles in the NFL. But the potential is there. 
 

Levis has a huge upside. Strong arm and mobile enough. He is very cocky though. It might be hard to teach this guy how to leave his ego at the door of the quarterback room. Guys like this tend to have leadership issues. People can overcome this, but they normally don’t. If he can then his upside is similar to Josh Allen. 
 

Completely off the mark with the "Ego" stuff about Levis.  He may be Average or worse in the NFL, but he's fought adversity, nagging injuries for a full season, to a toe no less.... played on an out-talented team for the majority of his games by FAR, Is lauded by all his teammates, and has had three OC's in three years..... not to mention all three of his previous top targets were gone his Sr. year.   He's no Headcase from what I see....

[Jackie Daytona]

7 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Ballard came here to build a team around Andrew Luck. Season 1? He is hurt and we have a horrible year under a coaching staff Ballard didnt hire.

 

 

Then he gets Luck back. We go on to have a pretty good season and a major turnaround after a practically unprecendented DB move by Josh McDaniels backing out of a coaching job.

 

Then Luck suddenly retires.....We go on to have a pretty good season under those circumstances and barely miss the playoffs. 

 

He rights the ship the following year and lands Rivers who comes in and gets us back in the playoffs. Rivers retires, not because he wants to, but because of the NFLs mask policy.

 

Ballard is forced, yet again, to address the QB position. He is under pressure from his HC to go after Carson Wentz, who is really close with Reich. After a dissapointing season.......where we should have been in the playoffs.......the owner is clearly not happy with the decision and they are moving on once again.

 

With few options available, they decide to take a chance on an aging, former MVP in Matt Ryan. They have a horrible season and the owner decides to make a change at HC mid season. They crumble down the stretch.

 

I dont know any GMs that could succeed under those circumstances. He has been forced to change QBs 3 seperate times in his time here.

 

Eh....  he hasn't been "Forced" to change QB's every time..... twice definitely. 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Most likely Carolina jumped the gun, to get into position. At the time, they probably didn’t know who they would take. They might not even know right now. They paid a ransom to get up there. 
 

It’s a different thought process. The Colts were sitting at 4, with a great shot to get a top QB. The Panthers were on the outside looking in. They weren’t even in the game. 
 

The Panthers felt the risk was worth it. The Colts were not there yet. 

I get the idea that CAR wanted to get in position for a QB and maybe had to get to 1 since 2,3,4, and 5 were not options, but that doesn't change OPs interpretation that if IND wanted to go to number 1 after they finished their due diligence, they were slow on the draw.

 

Sometimes waiting to get all of the information you can possibly get on something is too slow and scared compared to others who can see things with less info.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, Jackie Daytona said:

Completely off the mark with the "Ego" stuff about Levis.  He may be Average or worse in the NFL, but he's fought adversity, nagging injuries for a full season, to a toe no less.... played on an out-talented team for the majority of his games by FAR, Is lauded by all his teammates, and has had three OC's in three years..... not to mention all three of his previous top targets were gone his Sr. year.   He's no Headcase from what I see....

I believe Levis has a lot of upside, and have mentioned it. His last season can be compared to Josh Allen’s last collegiate season. That was my prediction for him this year too. There are a lot of Josh Allen comparisons. 
 

But Levis’s ego might be too big for the big leagues. It’s a problem for him. It’s his biggest problem. 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I get the idea that CAR wanted to get in position for a QB and maybe had to get to 1 since 2,3,4, and 5 were not options, but that doesn't change OPs interpretation that if IND wanted to go to number 1 after they finished their due diligence, they were slow on the draw.

 

Sometimes waiting to get all of the information you can possibly get on something is too slow and scared compared to others who can see things with less info.

 

Carolina jumped on it before it became a bidding war. They did what they had to do. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Carolina jumped on it before it became a bidding war. They did what they had to do. 

I think they know who they want.  And when every other slow poke team gathers as much data as they can possibly get out of fear of making a mistake, those teams will come to the same conclusion Frank did weeks ago and will be shut out of number 1.  LOL.

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think they know who they want.  And when every other slow poke team gathers as much data as they can possibly get out of fear of making a mistake, those teams will come to the same conclusion Frank did weeks ago and will be shut out of number 1.  LOL.

There is not an Andrew Luck in this draft.

 

When there is not an Andrew Luck, often times the first QB off the board is not the best QB. 
 

Look at Mahomes and Herbert. NFL history is littered with these situations. 

[Goatface Killah]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

Eh....  he hasn't been "Forced" to change QB's every time..... twice definitely. 

Which time wasnt he forced?

[throwing BBZ]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Isn't that the same thing as OPs interpretation?

 

The Colts were slower than CAR in knowing if they should trade up or stay put.

 

That's different than what some are saying here (running to quickly defend Ballard per usual)..... that he did finish his due diligence enough to know that it wasn't worth moving up.

 

  Carolina paid a desperate price for #1. That it was immediately made known there was trade back possibility meant they weren't sold on just one guy?

 Actually, I believe Frank and the owner couldn't control their lust, and convinced themselves to get out the credit cardZ to do some serious QVC style, impulse buying.

[throwing BBZ]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think they know who they want.  And when every other slow poke team gathers as much data as they can possibly get out of fear of making a mistake, those teams will come to the same conclusion Frank did weeks ago and will be shut out of number 1.  LOL.

 

So Houston screwed up. AZ screwed up.. Interesting.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

There is not an Andrew Luck in this draft.

 

When there is not an Andrew Luck, often times the first QB off the board is not the best QB. 
 

Look at Mahomes and Herbert. NFL history is littered with these situations. 

I think Frank values accuracy and YAC.  Stroud was clearly that QB from day 1 of the post season.  I think CAR knew who they wanted and didn't have to fuss around about it.  They didn't want to wait for another team to gather enough data needed before the algorithms would work, then get into the bidding war.

 

2 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

So Houston screwed up. AZ screwed up.. Interesting.

Well, when one team beats all others to the punch, I guess you could say it that way.

[Dingus McGirt]

They may not have known anything about who they were finally going after, but Carolina’s move put them in the catbird seat.  Now, they can do as they like.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, Dingus McGirt said:

They may not have known anything about who they were finally going after, but Carolina’s move put them in the catbird seat.  Now, they can do as they like.

Correct. That’s what my gut tells me. 

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think they know who they want.  And when every other slow poke team gathers as much data as they can possibly get out of fear of making a mistake, those teams will come to the same conclusion Frank did weeks ago and will be shut out of number 1.  LOL.

Ballard feels no qb this year is worth trading away the future for.   Time will tell if he is correct

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Frank values accuracy and YAC.  Stroud was clearly that QB from day 1 of the post season.  I think CAR knew who they wanted and didn't have to fuss around about it.  They didn't want to wait for another team to gather enough data needed before the algorithms would work, then get into the bidding war.

 

Young. Stroud and Levis all have around 66% completion.  

[El Potro]

18 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

But Levis’s ego might be too big for the big leagues. It’s a problem for him. It’s his biggest problem. 

This just makes me laugh. That's just your opinion. There's nothing factual behind people saying he's all ego. It's a ridiculous statement tbh. 

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think Frank values accuracy and YAC.  Stroud was clearly that QB from day 1 of the post season.  I think CAR knew who they wanted and didn't have to fuss around about it.  They didn't want to wait for another team to gather enough data needed before the algorithms would work, then get into the bidding war.

 

Well, when one team beats all others to the punch, I guess you could say it that way.

Every QB talent evaluator values accuracy. It’s one of the things you can’t really teach. Players accuracy only slightly improves. They’re either born with accuracy or they’re not. 

Accuracy, and does the player love the game? Is he obsessed? I’ve been saying that for years.
 

What made Peyton great, is that he was obsessed with being a great QB. And he could deliver the ball to the right place at the right time. 

 

[Patrick Miller]

3 hours ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

I think you took it the wrong way. Ballard and company DID do their due diligence and decided not to move up. Seems to me the panthers might have jumped without looking first. Ballard was just being nice when he complimented them on their choice.

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, El Potro said:

This just makes me laugh. That's just your opinion. There's nothing factual behind people saying he's all ego. It's a ridiculous statement tbh. 

It’s my observation. And I have an outstanding track record over the past 40 years of being right on these things. 
 

Take a look at Hurts. I said for years that he would be a better pro than college player. Hell I said that when is was an Alabama backup. There is nothing arrogant about Hurts. And everything he does is about the obsession of the game. 

[GoColts8818]

Because I am not the Owner and don’t really have a choice if I want to be a Colts fan.

[ChuggaBeer]

3 hours ago, mirobi48 said:

When he tells everyone they weren't ready to move up because they hadn't done their due diligence on the QBs and hats off to Carolina. 

Don't the Colts have one of the better scouting departments? They should have known all about these top 4 QBs

And It is not like no one in the Colts organization didn't know we need a QB

Especially after the Wentz fiasco 

 

Something is not right

 

So while the Colts probably already did their due diligence.  They did not have time to work with Streichen on the QB's because he was busy putting together a coaching staff.  Streichen said as much in his interview.   Ballard wasn't going to make the decision to move up without working through it all with Coach first.  Hence. We were't ready to make that kind of move.

 

Much ado about nothing.

 

It was the correct way to go about this   

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Ballard feels no qb this year is worth trading away the future for.   Time will tell if he is correct

That may be true now.  I think OP was questioning if Ballard thought that at the time CAR traded up.  If he didn't know that at the time, then he's gotten lucky that his analysis has resulted in no clear front runner.

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Young. Stroud and Levis all have around 66% completion.  

Other things go into that stat.  I think the tape shows clearly that Stroud has the best ball placement...backed up at the combine and pro-day.