Lombardi on Qbs, Colts and Jackson

[RollerColt]

[Tsarquise]

20 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Can't wait until this Lamar stuff is over and he is signed by any team other than the Colts. 

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Can't wait until this Lamar stuff is over and he is signed by any team other than the Colts. 

I will call it the Jackson fever. Too many Colt fans want Ballard to offer Jackson a contract that would make him the highest paid QB in the league. Has Jackson earned that contract? Is he really the best QB in the league? Better than Mahomes, Burrow and or Allen? Just because he can't work out a deal with the Ravens why should the Colts be the next team to be held financial hostage?

[RollerColt]

59 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Can't wait until this Lamar stuff is over and he is signed by any team other than the Colts. 

Same. And it’s not like we have multiple other threads rehashing the same thing… oh wait… we in fact do… 

 

Not sure how many times it can be reiterated that a team friendly deal for Jackson is impossible because of the stipulations of the tag and the Ravens matching it. Not to mention giving up the next two first round picks… 

 

When it’s all said and done, he’ll be on the Ravens for ‘23, and the drama will continue for another year…

[GoColts8818]

34 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I will call it the Jackson fever. Too many Colt fans want Ballard to offer Jackson a contract that would make him the highest paid QB in the league. Has Jackson earned that contract? Is he really the best QB in the league? Better than Mahomes, Burrow and or Allen? Just because he can't work out a deal with the Ravens why should the Colts be the next team to be held financial hostage?

First of all I am not for signing Jackson.  For me it’s more about the picks but regardless I am not for it.

 

Second, very rarely is the best player at his position the highest paid player at his position because of how contracts work.  The next contract is always bigger for the next star guy.  That’s why Daniel Jones is going to be paid more than Patrick Mahomes next year.  You can not like that that’s how they work but it’s how they work so saying someone isn’t the best player at his position thus he shouldn’t get paid the most is really irrelevant as long as that player is in the conversation, which Jackson is seen that way even if you personally don’t.  
 

Honestly the issues with Jackson isn’t the money.  If it was just that the Ravens would have had this done a long time ago.  It’s how he wants the contract done that’s the problem.  He wants what Watson got and a fully guaranteed contract and the Ravens are trying to say that was an outlier contract by the Browns doing things that make them the Browns.  That’s why they didn’t put the exclusive tag on him because they want him to see they aren’t being unreasonable by saying no to that and that in the end no one is going to give him that.  
 

As for the Colts you are right there is no way Ballard is going to go after him.  I doubt Ballard has anymore interest in a fully guaranteed contract than the Ravens do and he’s even less interested in trading two first round picks for him.  I mean let’s remember this is the same man that took a risk on losing out on Wentz two years ago because he waited for the Eagles to match his price rather than raise it slightly to get a deal done and had to have Owner tell him to up his offer to a third rounder last year for Ryan.  He’s a Scrooge with draft picks and won’t part with them easily.  No way so I see him giving up this years first and next years first for one player, especially when he can just draft a QB at 4 for cheaper and less mile on his body and still have next years first to build around him.  
 

Unlike some here Ballard isn’t scared to take a QB at four.  He trusts his scouts and feels that if they do take a QB there that person is going to work.  He’s not going to take one just to take one.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

First of all I am not for signing Jackson.  For me it’s more about the picks but regardless I am not for it.

 

Second, very rarely is the best player at his position the highest paid player at his position because of how contracts work.  The next contract is always bigger for the next star guy.  That’s why Daniel Jones is going to be paid more than Patrick Mahomes next year.  You can not like that that’s how they work but it’s how they work so saying someone isn’t the best player at his position thus he shouldn’t get paid the most is really irrelevant as long as that player is in the conversation, which Jackson is seen that way even if you personally don’t.  
 

Honestly the issues with Jackson isn’t the money.  If it was just that the Ravens would have had this done a long time ago.  It’s how he wants the contract done that’s the problem.  He wants what Watson got and a fully guaranteed contract and the Ravens are trying to say that was an outlier contract by the Browns doing things that make them the Browns.  That’s why they didn’t put the exclusive tag on him because they want him to see they aren’t being unreasonable by saying no to that and that in the end no one is going to give him that.  
 

As for the Colts you are right there is no way Ballard is going to go after him.  I doubt Ballard has anymore interest in a fully guaranteed contract than the Ravens so and he’s even less interested in trading two first round picks for him.  I mean let’s remember this is the same man that took a risk on losing out on Wentz two years ago because he waited for the Eagles to match his price rather than raise it slightly to get a deal done and had to have Owner tell him to up his offer to a third rounder last year for Ryan.  He’s a Scrooge with draft picks and won’t part with them easily.  No way so I see him giving up this years first and next years first for one player, especially when he can just draft a QB at 4 for cheaper and less mile on his body and still have next years first to build around him.  
 

Unlike some here Ballard isn’t scared to take a QB at four.  He trusts his scouts and feels that if they do take a QB there that person is going to work.  He’s not going to take one just to take one.

I understand how the financial issues work in the NFL. Maybe it's time for the owners to take control and put an end to the madness that the NFL has become. After all, it's the owners who started this financial mess they got themselves in.  

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand how the financial issues work in the NFL. Maybe it's time for the owners to take control and put an end to the madness that the NFL has become. After all, it's the owners who started this financial mess they got themselves in.  

They aren’t in a financial mess they are making record profit.  They will gladly pay players what they want as long as they keep making record profit.  Like I said the issue with Jackson isn’t the money it’s the how he wants the contract set up.  If it was just the money this deal would have been done a long time ago.  

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

They aren’t in a financial mess they are making record profit.  They will gladly pay players what they want as long as they keep making record profit.  Like I said the issue with Jackson isn’t the money it’s the how he wants the contract set up.  If it was just the money this deal would have been done a long time ago.  

Profits don't have anything to do with working the contracts and keeping within the cap. 

[OhioColt]

Colts are an organization that is typically drama free.  Really can't see adding Lamar to the fold here it seems to go against the higher morals that we have.  

[VikingsFanInChennai]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why should the Colts put the effort it when the Ravens will match any offers?

Ravens will not match any offers, if an offer is made that's too costly for them and they still get 2 first round draft picks, they may let go of Jackson. That's the way Ravens and Jackson are "testing" the market price, while the Ravens still hold the leverage to match the offer. 

 

It might still be early days as teams may try to consume all choices like options in moving in the draft, getting inside sources on how other teams have evaluated QB draft prospects and where they might be drafted, etc., 

 

Some team may still be willing to give up compensation for the Ravens after trying out all other options. 

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Ravens will not match any offers, if an offer is made that's too costly for them and they still get 2 first round draft picks, they may let go of Jackson. That's the way Ravens and Jackson are "testing" the market price, while the Ravens still hold the leverage to match the offer. 

 

It might still be early days as teams may try to consume all choices like options in moving in the draft, getting inside sources on how other teams have evaluated QB draft prospects and where they might be drafted, etc., 

 

Some team may still be willing to give up compensation for the Ravens after trying out all other options. 

Yes you are correct of course but what's next? I'm not in on Jackson because I think he and the Ravens are over valuing themselves.  IMHO 

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Colts are an organization that is typically drama free.  Really can't see adding Lamar to the fold here it seems to go against the higher morals that we have.  

I don't think I want Jackson only because of the cost to aquire him.  But what moral issue are you talking about?

[krunk]

4 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Colts are an organization that is typically drama free.  Really can't see adding Lamar to the fold here it seems to go against the higher morals that we have.  

Dear God

[Dingus McGirt]

This topic ought be closed.  TWO First Round Picks and $200 MILLION guaranteed.  Stop the madness.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

14 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Colts were so lucky the football Gods decided to have one of those QBs retire early for all our success. We won too many SBs during that period ya know what I mean? 

[MikeCurtis]

5 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Ravens will not match any offers, if an offer is made that's too costly for them and they still get 2 first round draft picks, they may let go of Jackson. That's the way Ravens and Jackson are "testing" the market price, while the Ravens still hold the leverage to match the offer. 

 

It might still be early days as teams may try to consume all choices like options in moving in the draft, getting inside sources on how other teams have evaluated QB draft prospects and where they might be drafted, etc., 

 

Some team may still be willing to give up compensation for the Ravens after trying out all other options. 

I think you MAY be right....

 

If the offer is too high they may take the picks

 

IMHO, if the Colts were a little bit interested, (A BIG IF) they should wait until after the draft

 

Compensation is 2 firsts.......   If someone like the Colts used their first pick on defense, and then added Lamar the team would probably win 10 games this year 

 

That 1st of the two round picks would have much less value

 

I can see some merit from the idea, because Jackson WOULD improve our team, but I truly dont see it happening

 

Its almost always better to get your QB from the draft.

 

Its a shame that the top 2 QBs that had the best chance of success will be gone by our draft pick

 

Is Levis or Richardson, going to turn it around THIS YEAR?

 

NOPE,

 

Both are probably less than 20% to hit at all pro level. 

 

We will probably be having the same conversation next year , unfortunately

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think you MAY be right....

 

If the offer is too high they may take the picks

 

IMHO, if the Colts were a little bit interested, (A BIG IF) they should wait until after the draft

 

Compensation is 2 firsts.......   If someone like the Colts used their first pick on defense, and then added Lamar the team would probably win 10 games this year 

 

That 1st of the two round picks would have much less value

 

I can see some merit from the idea, because Jackson WOULD improve our team, but I truly dont see it happening

 

Its almost always better to get your QB from the draft.

 

Its a shame that the top 2 QBs that had the best chance of success will be gone by our draft pick

 

Is Levis or Richardson, going to turn it around THIS YEAR?

 

NOPE,

 

Both are probably less than 20% to hit at all pro level. 

 

We will probably be having the same conversation next year , unfortunately

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the Colts decided to make a run at Jackson the idea of trading back first makes a lot of sense.   That said the further back that 1st pick is the odds of them matching increases imo.  If the picks are for years 24 and 25 the match odds increase more.  I don’t think they would match our offer if it was for this years pick and next years.  I think they would decline to match pretty quickly.  I could see them taking our pick and moving to 3 actually.  Our current pick is the best they are going to get this year and most likely next year.  I just don’t see them passing on it because they can use it to get his replacement right away with a high pick and avoid the high contract and all   the drama that having Lamar play on the tag brings.  That’s just kicking the can down the road again.  Our pick gives them the best chance to reset imo.  That’s why I don’t think they match with us.  

 

[runthepost]

8 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Colts are an organization that is typically drama free.  Really can't see adding Lamar to the fold here it seems to go against the higher morals that we have.  

What drama are you talking about?

[Scott Pennock]

13 hours ago, dgambill said:

NFL free agency is almost 100% about the $$$. Specifically the guaranteed money for big name free agents. Guaranteed $$ has to be put into escrow…so big $$ is not exactly easy for small market teams to come up with to put into escrow. That’s why teams like Indy, GB and teams with owners that aren’t flush with cash like the Raiders etc have to be very very careful with those types of contracts. Most often those funds are set aside for signing their own franchise players then going out and trying to sign big time free agents to long term big money contracts. It’s more than just fitting it into the cap or convincing guys to come to Indy…it’s about finances and roster building. 
 

It’s why you see some of the worst teams in the nfl still convince free agents to sign there. Teams like the Jets that have sucked forever…if the money is right guys will sign. Also those teams typically draft poorly and don’t have many of their own guys to try to re-sign to major contracts so they can afford to blow it out in free agency. 

Money is certainly a factor, however, we still seem to re-sign our own 'stars' to robust contracts over the years. So that does beg the question - have all of the previous GM's (Ballard included) undervalue every major free agent that they were interested in? I mean it's a 40 year drought that we are talking about here?

 

I do agree that it seems weird that players would sign with the Jets (Huge East Coast Market) or the Jaguars (Florida tax laws) but they get exposure and tax free income in those two markets. There are many factors and all of them seem to stack up aganist us in Naptown. Personally, I am not complaining about it I am just self-aware enough that a big named free agent when offered a similar contract will choose other places on some of those factors.

 

I mean if I were a defensive player I probably would have wanted to play for the 2000's Colts with Manning, Edge, Marvin, Batman, Clark and Stokely scoring points and being perennial playoff contenders.............but they didn't???

[Scott Pennock]

13 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

A survey of NFL agents actually showed Indy as getting votes for being one of the places where players want to play. The agents said though that the team offering the most money is more important to players than location.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2019/03/12/best-worst-destinations-free-agents-dallas-atlanta-buffalo-cleveland-detroit-oakland

A survey done by those same agents stated that Ballard was also one of the best GM's in the game - and yet most people bash him on this board still.

 

That survey very well could be true but 40 years of free agents passing us over seems odd, money or not.

[BeanDiasucci]

37 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

A survey done by those same agents stated that Ballard was also one of the best GM's in the game - and yet most people bash him on this board still.

 

That survey very well could be true but 40 years of free agents passing us over seems odd, money or not.

Bill Polian, like Ballard, had a strategy of building primarily through the draft, trades, and resigning the team's best players. Other franchises in non-exotic cities have made big free agent signings, like Buffalo did in 2022 with Von Miller.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

Bill Polian, like Ballard, had a strategy of building primarily through the draft, trades, and resigning the team's best players. Other franchises in non-exotic cities have made big free agent signings, like Buffalo did in 2022 with Von Miller.

 

If Von Miller doesn't get injured Buffalo may have won it all. That was a huge loss. After he got injured, Buffalo's pass rush sucked rear end.

[rockywoj]

I think the price of two 1st is too high.  If truly interested, I’d see if I can negotiate a reasonable contract with Lamar, coming to a handshake deal, then negotiate a trade price with Baltimore that is for less than two 1st rounders, say maybe a 1st and a 3rd or 2nd, then have Lamar sign his tender, make the trade with the Ravens, then sign Lamar to the previously unannounced reasonable contract.

 

At the current cost of two 1sts and they crazy contract numbers being floated, though, a big no thank you.

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Bill Polian, like Ballard, had a strategy of building primarily through the draft, trades, and resigning the team's best players. Other franchises in non-exotic cities have made big free agent signings, like Buffalo did in 2022 with Von Miller.

 

It’s easier for a team like small market Buffalo to attract players because they have Josh Allen.   Players think they’ve got a legit shot at a Super Bowl.    Same with small market Green Bay who were able to attract FA players when they had Favre and Rodgers.   
 

Indy might’ve been in that same spot had Luck remained healthy and we were a deep run playoff team annually.   Teams look more attractive if players think they’re playing for a SB contender. 

[Stephen]

It it was Mahomes or Burrow id make an offer but I think the cost is too much for Jackson

[TimetobringDfence!]

LJ Laughing Joke

[Hawkeyecolt]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:29 PM, Scott Pennock said:

Obviously we got 14 years out of Vinatieri, not sure Bratzke had a bidding war for but he was solid for us. But if we’re only counting two in 40 years that kinda supports the issue of the Colts not being a chosen destination……

Craig Erickson and Flipper Anderson were free-agents signed by Tobin. Lowdermilk and Wolford were a big splash at the time.
 

Jeff Burris was brought in with Bratzke as was Sean King.  Polian overpaid for some above average player initially then basically took the same approach as Ballard. Build through the draft and retain your own players. Much different allocation of money though when you look at potential spending. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Craig Erickson and Flipper Anderson were free-agents signed by Tobin. Lowdermilk and Wolford were a big splash at the time.
 

Jeff Burris was brought in with Bratzke as was Sean King.  Polian overpaid for some above average player initially then basically took the same approach as Ballard. Build through the draft and retain your own players. Much different allocation of money though when you look at potential spending. 

The pay structure for positions has changed thus the allocation difference.  RBs were the big bags back then. 

[The Old Crow]

I like Lamar and appreciate what he’s done for the Ravens, but buyer beware. He’s not the greatest passer, has won only one playoff game in five years, and missed 25 % of the last two seasons. He showed no leadership in not even going with the team to the Bengals playoff  game to help out Huntley on the sidelines. We all know what happened on that QB sneak. This supposedly from a guy wanting to win a SB ! 
Now he’s bizarrely representing himself as an agent, putting together an interview with himself , and has an exercise equipment guy and his mother leaking info to other NFL teams in shadow negotiations. 
We both know how it is in Baltimore or Indy when you don’t have a QB for a long period, so I get wanting Lamar as he is certainly a talent. That being said, I’m not even sure I want him back in Baltimore, and two first round draft picks look pretty good right now. A game manager with a great defense and running game , could produce similar or better results in Baltimore. Anyway, we will see how it plays out, and good luck in the draft. 
 

[cdgacoltsfan]

On 3/24/2023 at 10:36 AM, richard pallo said:

If the Colts decided to make a run at Jackson the idea of trading back first makes a lot of sense.   That said the further back that 1st pick is the odds of them matching increases imo.  If the picks are for years 24 and 25 the match odds increase more.  I don’t think they would match our offer if it was for this years pick and next years.  I think they would decline to match pretty quickly.  I could see them taking our pick and moving to 3 actually.  Our current pick is the best they are going to get this year and most likely next year.  I just don’t see them passing on it because they can use it to get his replacement right away with a high pick and avoid the high contract and all   the drama that having Lamar play on the tag brings.  That’s just kicking the can down the road again.  Our pick gives them the best chance to reset imo.  That’s why I don’t think they match with us.  

 

Unfortunately for you, if the Colts trade back ,they can't sign Lamar to an offer sheet. An offer can only be accepted by Lamar if the 1st round pick is the teams original pick or higher. Can't trade back then make an offer.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Unfortunately for you, if the Colts trade back ,they can't sign Lamar to an offer sheet. An offer can only be accepted by Lamar if the 1st round pick is the teams original pick or higher. Can't trade back then make an offer.

That's good info.  Thanks, I had not heard that before.  

[Mike06181]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:04 AM, MikeCurtis said:

I think you MAY be right....

 

If the offer is too high they may take the picks

 

IMHO, if the Colts were a little bit interested, (A BIG IF) they should wait until after the draft

 

Compensation is 2 firsts.......   If someone like the Colts used their first pick on defense, and then added Lamar the team would probably win 10 games this year 

 

That 1st of the two round picks would have much less value

 

I can see some merit from the idea, because Jackson WOULD improve our team, but I truly dont see it happening

 

Its almost always better to get your QB from the draft.

 

Its a shame that the top 2 QBs that had the best chance of success will be gone by our draft pick

 

Is Levis or Richardson, going to turn it around THIS YEAR?

 

NOPE,

 

Both are probably less than 20% to hit at all pro level. 

 

We will probably be having the same conversation next year , unfortunately

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct i agree except add this scenario 

 

colts trade back to say 10-15 range and get an additional 2nd and a 1st in 2024.

 

Offer lamar after draft so that ravens get colts picks in 24&25.

 

colts still have a 1st in 24 from trade.

[Gigc]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Unfortunately for you, if the Colts trade back ,they can't sign Lamar to an offer sheet. An offer can only be accepted by Lamar if the 1st round pick is the teams original pick or higher. Can't trade back then make an offer.

Is there a source for that? I had not heard that before. It's hardly different than waiting till after the draft to sign him, pushing off any draft choices till 24-25

[cdgacoltsfan]

34 minutes ago, Gigc said:

Is there a source for that? I had not heard that before. It's hardly different than waiting till after the draft to sign him, pushing off any draft choices till 24-25

Saw it on Chris Sims/ Mike Florio

[MikeCurtis]

5 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Unfortunately for you, if the Colts trade back ,they can't sign Lamar to an offer sheet. An offer can only be accepted by Lamar if the 1st round pick is the teams original pick or higher. Can't trade back then make an offer.

I havent heard that

 

But......

 

Unless there is is something ELSE that I havent seen, there is nothing that says that we cant sign Lamar AFTER the draft

 

That approach is much more risky because if we dont get him, we WONT have a QB to develop until 24

 

I know that people on here love QB3 and QB4......  I just think they are both longshots at best and neither are worth a top 5 pick

 

Think of it this way

 

According to the draft trade chart the 4th pick is worth 1800, Pick 15th is worth 1050

 

In a normal draft this years QB3 and QB4 would be picked around 15th

 

We do need a QB, but BPA is a loud calling and paying 40% more just to get a QB seems a bit foolish

 

I just dont see that much difference between QB3, QB4, and Hooker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OhioColt]

On 3/24/2023 at 11:05 AM, runthepost said:

What drama are you talking about?

The Colts are known to have a higher standard over other Clubs when it comes to NFL players.  A team like the Bengals known for taking thugs to build a team.  Jackson is not a terrible player and realize its more about the guaranteed money he is seeking.  Could Jackson's negative comments about the LBGTQ community be a detractor against him, who knows.  Bottom line to me is I am not a big fan of Lamar and really don't want the Colts to add him.  Also not keen on drafting a top QB this year and trading back this year upgrade our RG with Torrence and add 2024 first round pick and move up next year for a player basically an equal to Lamar and being called "generational" QBs.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:53 AM, Scott Pennock said:

A survey done by those same agents stated that Ballard was also one of the best GM's in the game - and yet most people bash him on this board still.

 

That survey very well could be true but 40 years of free agents passing us over seems odd, money or not.

Of course agents like him as he over pays

[jvan1973]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:20 AM, OhioColt said:

The Colts are known to have a higher standard over other Clubs when it comes to NFL players.  A team like the Bengals known for taking thugs to build a team.  Jackson is not a terrible player and realize its more about the guaranteed money he is seeking.  Could Jackson's negative comments about the LBGTQ community be a detractor against him, who knows.  Bottom line to me is I am not a big fan of Lamar and really don't want the Colts to add him.  Also not keen on drafting a top QB this year and trading back this year upgrade our RG with Torrence and add 2024 first round pick and move up next year for a player basically an equal to Lamar and being called "generational" QBs.

What does any of that have to do with lamars morals?

[Boondoggle]

On 3/25/2023 at 9:28 AM, The Old Crow said:

I like Lamar and appreciate what he’s done for the Ravens, but buyer beware. He’s not the greatest passer, has won only one playoff game in five years, and missed 25 % of the last two seasons. He showed no leadership in not even going with the team to the Bengals playoff  game to help out Huntley on the sidelines. We all know what happened on that QB sneak. This supposedly from a guy wanting to win a SB ! 
Now he’s bizarrely representing himself as an agent, putting together an interview with himself , and has an exercise equipment guy and his mother leaking info to other NFL teams in shadow negotiations. 
We both know how it is in Baltimore or Indy when you don’t have a QB for a long period, so I get wanting Lamar as he is certainly a talent. That being said, I’m not even sure I want him back in Baltimore, and two first round draft picks look pretty good right now. A game manager with a great defense and running game , could produce similar or better results in Baltimore. Anyway, we will see how it plays out, and good luck in the draft. 
 

Agreed.  I see whoever signs him to be left holding a very large bag that he's probably not going to be able to live up to.  This is one of those situations where having a cheap owner will benefit us by removing us from that particular sweepstakes.