Free Agency - Insanity

[Scott Pennock]

Here’s some mental hi jinx for all of you that whine, complain and bash the Front Office and ownership for the lack of “Big Time” agents signed……

 

Historically speaking every great, in their prime player for both the Pacers and the Colts have come via the draft and/or the trade market.

 

I challenge all of you to prove me wrong and tell me what, in their prime, great free agent ever signed with the Pacers and/or Colts.

 

Indiana is a flyover state, not a destination state. Indianapolis is called Naptown for a reason folks…..

 

So tell me who you got as a prized free agent that ever signed with either Indy teams!

[Fluke_33]

9 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Indiana is a flyover state, not a destination state.

I always thought the slogan "Crossroads of America" was funny and took it as everyone is just passing though.  lol.

[chad72]

The best free agent we ever signed as the Colts was Adam Vinatieri. Enough said.

[#12.]

Plenty of big name free agents have been interested in Indy over the years, but Polian and Ballard weren't interested in them.

 

In the NFL, size of the market doesn't seem to matter as much as it does in other sports, and there's a salary cap, so every available free agent can't just go to LA or wherever.

[tweezy32]

Frank Gore baby!! dude was a tank.

[lollygagger8]

Matt Pryor gotta be top 10  for best acquisitions 

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

It may not All be about the money....but its close.

If the Colts offered top contracts with guaranteed money and signing bonuses top FA's  would sign. Probably the colts would have to outspend more desirable teams and locations but they would sign for the money. 

But top FA's aren't likely to come to a less desirable place like Indy if the colts try to get them as bargains. Trying to do business on the cheap is not the way to attract the Best players.

[Smonroe]

Ebron had one great year.  Autry.  Redding.

 

Not sure how to define "Great" though.  Those guys were all good.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Maybe K Matt Gay will be our best FA signing??? 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

I always thought the slogan "Crossroads of America" was funny and took it as everyone is just passing though.  lol.

I mean, the name "crossroads of America" was less a nickname,and more, a "literal" thing.

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

The best free agent we ever signed as the Colts was Adam Vinatieri. Enough said.

I concede that one as a very good signing - we got a solid 14 years out of him. Perhaps Matt Gay will equal or surpass that!??!

 

So there is one, well done @chad72

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Here’s some mental hi jinx for all of you that whine, complain and bash the Front Office and ownership for the lack of “Big Time” agents signed……

 

Historically speaking every great, in their prime player for both the Pacers and the Colts have come via the draft and/or the trade market.

 

I challenge all of you to prove me wrong and tell me what, in their prime, great free agent ever signed with the Pacers and/or Colts.

 

Indiana is a flyover state, not a destination state. Indianapolis is called Naptown for a reason folks…..

 

So tell me who you got as a prized free agent that ever signed with either Indy teams!

Adam Vinatieri and David West.  One for each team.  The Colts also got Corey Simon in free agency who was a major factor in the 05 defense being so good.  

[chad72]

Just now, Scott Pennock said:

I concede that one as a very good signing - we got a solid 14 years out of him. Perhaps Matt Gay will equal or surpass that!??!

 

So there is one, well done @chad72

 

14 years in this Not For Long league is an eternity, lol  , way more than solid. 

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

Plenty of big name free agents have been interested in Indy over the years, but Polian and Ballard weren't interested in them.

 

In the NFL, size of the market doesn't seem to matter as much as it does in other sports, and there's a salary cap, so every available free agent can't just go to LA or wherever.

Easy to blame Polian (HOFamer) and Ballard...............I notice you left out plenty of other GM's in your astute take........with zero evidence! 

[Scott Pennock]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Adam Vinatieri and David West.  One for each team.  The Colts also got Corey Simon in free agency who was a major factor in the 05 defense being so good.  

David West aged 31-34 seasons - maybe because he was a 2x All-Star but he was past his prime when the Pacers signed him in my opinion.

 

Corey Simon we got for his age 28 season. Hurt his aged 29 season and out the whole year (though we won the SB without him and he didn't even attend), played for HOU or TEN for one year at 30 and now is a politician in Florida - he was a pro-bowler in 2003 so I guess that is a maybe too.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Scott Pennock said:

David West aged 31-34 seasons - maybe because he was a 2x All-Star but he was past his prime when the Pacers signed him in my opinion.

 

Corey Simon we got for his age 28 season. Hurt his aged 29 season and out the whole year (though we won the SB without him and he didn't even attend), played for HOU or TEN for one year at 30 and now is a politician in Florida - he was a pro-bowler in 2003 so I guess that is a maybe too.

 

 

Must be nice to just say I don’t want to count guys that don’t support my argument…

[Scott Pennock]

44 minutes ago, tweezy32 said:

Frank Gore baby!! dude was a tank.

Past his prime when the Colts signed him - averaged 984 yards a season and 3.8 YPC or 61 yards per game. We did not sign the 5x Pro-Bowler, we signed the guy who looked like him but was past his prime! Though I do agree he was a tank!

[Scott Pennock]

34 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

It may not All be about the money....but its close.

If the Colts offered top contracts with guaranteed money and signing bonuses top FA's  would sign. Probably the colts would have to outspend more desirable teams and locations but they would sign for the money. 

But top FA's aren't likely to come to a less desirable place like Indy if the colts try to get them as bargains. Trying to do business on the cheap is not the way to attract the Best players.

Too cheap is a flawed argument because both Polian and Ballard (as an example) have proven that they will pay to retain their own stars.......

[RollerColt]

15 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

14 years in this Not For Long league is an eternity, lol  , way more than solid. 

The best. And I shamelessly absolutely love the guy for everything he has given us! Met him years ago at one of the training camps, he made time to stand and talk with us for like 10 minutes. Even signed my hat before heading out. Classy guy and pretty much just one of the nicest Colts I've met. 

 

Indiana isn't the greatest state, but there are some really beautiful places here. The whole southern part of the state has a lot more varied terrain than one would think. My county (Franklin County) for example looks more like the hills of Kentucky than the stereotypical corn and flatlands. I think it says something that Adam sticks around and owns land here. And that he continues to stop by Pat's show. He loves the state and the team. 

[Scott Pennock]

35 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Ebron had one great year.  Autry.  Redding.

 

Not sure how to define "Great" though.  Those guys were all good.

When Autry was signed most everyone said "depth" and training camp body, same with Redding. Ebron everyone questioned his hands. Those ended up being solid signings but they were not considered stars by NFL standards or in the eyes of Colts fans.

[Scott Pennock]

12 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Must be nice to just say I don’t want to count guys that don’t support my argument…

Were either of those two universally known as superstars and we outsold and/or outbid the rest of the league for? No. That is the argument, not whether they ended up being 'solid' for a year or maybe two at the tail end of their careers.......

 

Nobody has mentioned the great Cornelius Bennett that we drafted, traded away, and then re-signed for his aged 34-35 year old seasons...............he was a stud for Buffalo in his prime but we got a shell of his former self..............that is the point of this exercise. How many tip top free agents did we sign in the prime of their careers?

[Scott Pennock]

7 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

The best. And I shamelessly absolutely love the guy for everything he has given us! Met him years ago at one of the training camps, he made time to stand and talk with us for like 10 minutes. Even signed my hat before heading out. Classy guy and pretty much just one of the nicest Colts I've met. 

 

Indiana isn't the greatest state, but there are some really beautiful places here. The whole southern part of the state has a lot more varied terrain than one would think. My county (Franklin County) for example looks more like the hills of Kentucky than the stereotypical corn and flatlands. I think it says something that Adam sticks around and owns land here. And that he continues to stop by Pat's show. He loves the state and the team. 

I agree that some parts of the state can be pretty, but, when I left at 19 years old I have only come back to visit and will never live there again as I've been all over the world and the U.S. and there are a lot more prettier places to live! Still love my Hoosiers though! 

[ShuteAt168]

Speaking for myself, I whine, complain and bash the Ballard front office because the team has been mediocre during his tenure. I don’t care if he signs free agents, doesn’t sign free agents, but if he’s not gonna be awake during free agency he needs to hit more draft picks and or develop players better. There’s more than one way to build a playoff team and Ballard hasn’t shown he can do it. Thus the whining complaints bashing will continue by a lot of fans. 

[ColtsLegacy]

Some new names...

 

Brandon Stokley: Short lived but he was a key part of the2004 record setting year with Manning and the high flying offense.

 

Booger McFarland: while a trade and not a FA signing, I think still counts in the spirit of the question (not a draftee). Also short lived, but a huge integral part of our super bowl run.

[Matabix]

Eric Dickerson?

[crazycolt1]

Darius Butler

Chad Bratzke

Chris Gardaki

Monte Reager

Kirk Lowdermilk

D'Qwell Jackson 

Jim Harbaugh 

Eric Walden

Mike Adams

Jeff Saturday 

Here is a few free agents  that did have a positive impact on the Colts. 

 

 

 

 

 

[SOMDColtsfan]

Kind of an invalid argument when neither Polian nor Ballard believe in spending big in free agency or building a team that way. Detroit doesn't exactly look like a great place to live nor Buffalo but they always seem to sign some flashy free agent. 

[Shadow_Creek]

Ahmad Bradshaw was one of my favorites the Colts brought in ...wish he was still in his prime though during that time

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I agree that some parts of the state can be pretty, but, when I left at 19 years old I have only come back to visit and will never live there again as I've been all over the world and the U.S. and there are a lot more prettier places to live! Still love my Hoosiers though! 

Hard to argue honestly. If I had the opportunity to move I definitely would, but that’s because I’m a mountain person. I love Colorado and Tennessee for that reason. But my wife is very close with her family so Indiana is where we’ll stay. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Adam Vinatieri and David West.  One for each team.  The Colts also got Corey Simon in free agency who was a major factor in the 05 defense being so good.  

Actually they got Simon in a trade initially.  They re-signed him after the season and then he became a bust.

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

When Autry was signed most everyone said "depth" and training camp body, same with Redding. Ebron everyone questioned his hands. Those ended up being solid signings but they were not considered stars by NFL standards or in the eyes of Colts fans.

I’m not sure which point you’re trying to make, that the Colts don’t go after high priced FAs, or that players don’t want to live in Indiana.  
 

if it’s the former, then you’re probably right.  There is some data that suggests the majority of highly paid FAs aren’t worth it.  I don’t know if that’s true.

 

If it’s the latter, there are players who want to be in big markets to increase their ‘brand’, get commercials, etc.  And no state tax teams are attractive.  
 

But for most players, they’re looking for the best contract, and a team that’s on the rise.  Their careers are too short for them to turn down a better offer because they didn’t like the area.  

[crazycolt1]

Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Saturday were free agents and both are in the ring of honor.  So the narrative that the Colts don't sign free agents is busted.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Actually they got Simon in a trade initially.  They re-signed him after the season and then he became a bust.

No he was signed after being released by the Eagles.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2148463

 

I think you are thinking of John Simon.

[GoColts8818]

50 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Saturday were free agents and both are in the ring of honor.  So the narrative that the Colts don't sign free agents is busted.

His point was that Indy doesn’t get big name free agents because it was a small city.  Then when confronted with big name free agents they did get he just disqualified them because they didn’t support his argument.  Harbaugh had busted out of Chicago when he came to Indy and Saturday was far from the player he would become so I don’t think they fit what he was talking about.  However, AV, Stokley, Corey Simon, and David West all do so that busts his argument anyways.

2 hours ago, Matabix said:

Eric Dickerson?

Trade

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

Some new names...

 

Brandon Stokley: Short lived but he was a key part of the2004 record setting year with Manning and the high flying offense.

 

Booger McFarland: while a trade and not a FA signing, I think still counts in the spirit of the question (not a draftee). Also short lived, but a huge integral part of our super bowl run.

His point was the city of Indianapolis doesnt get big name free agents because it’s a small city so trades don’t fit that because the player didn’t choose to come here.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

When Autry was signed most everyone said "depth" and training camp body, same with Redding. Ebron everyone questioned his hands. Those ended up being solid signings but they were not considered stars by NFL standards or in the eyes of Colts fans.

No one in their right mind thought Redding was a depth or camp body.  He’s actually a great example of a type of player you said Indy doesn’t get.

 

So are:

AV

Bratzke

Stokley

Walden

Reagor

Hankins

Corey Simon

Gay (signed this off-season for what it’s worth)

D’qwell Jackson

Art Jones

jabaal Sheard

Dwight Lowery 

 

Not all of those worked out here but they were sought after when they were free agents.

 

 

 

[Indeee]

4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Maybe K Matt Gay will be our best FA signing??? 

How many Gay jerseys are you getting?

 

I've already ordered 5.

 

2 in pink, and 3 more in Pinker pink just because pinkness should never just come in one shade of pink... Nailed it!!

 

 

 

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Here’s some mental hi jinx for all of you that whine, complain and bash the Front Office and ownership for the lack of “Big Time” agents signed……

 

Historically speaking every great, in their prime player for both the Pacers and the Colts have come via the draft and/or the trade market.

 

I challenge all of you to prove me wrong and tell me what, in their prime, great free agent ever signed with the Pacers and/or Colts.

 

Indiana is a flyover state, not a destination state. Indianapolis is called Naptown for a reason folks…..

 

So tell me who you got as a prized free agent that ever signed with either Indy teams!

Mark Jackson…. Move paired him with Reggie Miller and they’d finally beat the Knicks and eventually led the pacers to the nba finals

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

Hard to argue honestly. If I had the opportunity to move I definitely would, but that’s because I’m a mountain person. I love Colorado and Tennessee for that reason. But my wife is very close with her family so Indiana is where we’ll stay. 

Colorado is fabulous but TN gives me military flashbacks so I'd steer clear of there! Ha! In the mountains of Colorado though - I could see a self-sufficient cabin up there!

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

I’m not sure which point you’re trying to make, that the Colts don’t go after high priced FAs, or that players don’t want to live in Indiana.  
 

if it’s the former, then you’re probably right.  There is some data that suggests the majority of highly paid FAs aren’t worth it.  I don’t know if that’s true.

 

If it’s the latter, there are players who want to be in big markets to increase their ‘brand’, get commercials, etc.  And no state tax teams are attractive.  
 

But for most players, they’re looking for the best contract, and a team that’s on the rise.  Their careers are too short for them to turn down a better offer because they didn’t like the area.  

It's mostly about the highly regarded, high priced in their prime free agents that never sign with the Colts (and the Pacers for that matter) UNLESS we are re-signing them because we drafted them or we traded for them.

 

Naptown is just not a sought after destination not even when the Colts were winning 10-15 games every year with Manning as the QB.......

 

The point of the exercise was to help some of these young fans understand that historically it just does not happen...........