Gilmore traded to Cowboys

[Nate!]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

So we told Shane the plan is to draft one of the rookie quarterbacks he likes from a week class and before that we are going to tear the team apart and create a boatload of cap space by dumping some of our veteran players.  So Shane that means you are going to lose a lot of games to start your head coaching career so are you good with that?  We are as long as you pick the right quarterback.  And he said great where do I sign.

It’s not a weak QB class.  Just made up.

 

Last year was a weak QB class with just one first round QB and it was late pick.  No other QBs taken until 3rd round.  That’s a weak class.

 

This year, QBs going 1,2 and likely three of the top 4 at worst and it is feasible first four picks are QBs.  Possible there could be a 5h first round QB and likely worst case, a 5th in the second round.  That’s a super strong class, period.  Only thing missing is that sure first number one overall to have it be potentially an all time class going in.  Ultimately, how they perform will be determining factor with hindsight glasses on.

 

 

[husker61]

Terrible trade. If you only get an end of the 5th round pick, you have to keep him. His value is worth more to the colts than that pick unless you have to get under the cap and the colts don’t have to. That pick really isn’t worth much at all.

[TomDiggs]

21 minutes ago, husker61 said:

Terrible trade. If you only get an end of the 5th round pick, you have to keep him. His value is worth more to the colts than that pick unless you have to get under the cap and the colts don’t have to. That pick really isn’t worth much at all.

I think that narrative sounds good to say until you consider a few things:

 

1) Ballard has a track record of hitting on a bunch of picks in that 140+ range where the fifth round begins (comp pick is around pick 169 I think and 5th rd begins at pick 136 this year)

2) when you hit, that’s four years of cheap labor at around 670k a year

 

if you can identify good players to develop that fit, you set your team up very well got the future when you have to extend big money players or get expensive free agents

 

so far the colts haven’t gotten much in the way of expensive FAs. But when your rookie qb is making around $6M a year for four years instead of the $40-$50M the decent ones go for now, we will have a big chance in the next 2-3 years to be key players if we are competing by year 2-3. That’s when having depth or if lucky a starter or two you hit on for 670k becomes big big

 

ballard has selected the following decent to great players w pick 140 or beyond:

 

Grover Stewart (144)

Marlon Mack (143)

Anthony Walker (161)

Jordan Wilkins (169)

Zaire Franklin (235)

Isaiah Rodgers (211)

Danny Pinter (149)

EJ Speed (164)

 

that’s around 8 of 20 or so picks at that range where this years fifth round starts or higher that we’re good gets. 
 

if he’s gonna hit on 40% or so of these guys being solid spot starters or contributors for cheap labor, getting more dart throws in that range is worthwhile 

 

just my humble opinion 

[chickenMan]

5 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

Ramsey set the market. Younger and more years left. Only got a 3. 
 

5 was probably about right for a 32 yr old CB w only one year left no matter how good he was. 
 

we aren’t competing now. This is smart. Move guys that won’t be here for our competitive window in 2-3 years and get what you can now and build. 
 

inevitably more to follow. If our fan base gets mad at these the expectations for this year are unrealistic. This is year one of a 2-3 year rebuild. Set expectations accordingly and enjoy watching younger guys develop. 

Tough to complain too much when you look at the multiple decades of “rebuilds” teams like the Lions, Bengals, and Jags have gone through, but it feels like we’ve been rebuilding since Peyton left, with not much to show for it. Oh well, I guess all we can do as fans is wait.

[CR91]

2 hours ago, chickenMan said:

Tough to complain too much when you look at the multiple decades of “rebuilds” teams like the Lions, Bengals, and Jags have gone through, but it feels like we’ve been rebuilding since Peyton left, with not much to show for it. Oh well, I guess all we can do as fans is wait.

 

We went to the AFC championship game. How is that a rebuild?

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Nate! said:

It’s not a weak QB class.  Just made up.

 

Last year was a weak QB class with just one first round QB and it was late pick.  No other QBs taken until 3rd round.  That’s a weak class.

 

This year, QBs going 1,2 and likely three of the top 4 at worst and it is feasible first four picks are QBs.  Possible there could be a 5h first round QB and likely worst case, a 5th in the second round.  That’s a super strong class, period.  Only thing missing is that sure first number one overall to have it be potentially an all time class going in.  Ultimately, how they perform will be determining factor with hindsight glasses on.

 

 

I think this class is suffering from two things:

 

1.  There is no obvious pick like with Burrow a couple of years ago.

2.  Over analyzing.  A year ago people were raving about this class.  Then naturally we started to pick these guys a part and look for flaws and of course doing that they were found.
 

 All these guys have questions but the people labeling this a weak class are assuming the answers to those questions is going to be negative.  History shows us it’s probably not going to happen that way.  I do think some of the QBs in this draft will be busts but I think at least one or two will hit.  Clearly the goal is find the guy that hits.  While getting the “best” guy for you is important in making that happen equally important is making sure you put the right guys around him in terms of players and coaches to make him successful.  The team that does that will hit on a QB in this draft.  

[Zoltan]

I really don’t like this move

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Zoltan said:

I really don’t like this move

Odds are the Colts are going to be a sub-500 this year.    Why keep a quality player who is not going to make as much if a difference when he only has one year left and he’s already 32.  
 

Get what you can for him and move on.   
 

Plus, since this is a very good and large class of corners to draft, we might be able to get two of them this year.   Perhaps an outside guy and a slot guy.   

[stitches]

Too bad he came to us in a year we were complete disaster on offense. He provided stability and leadership in the defensive backfield. One of the best signings Ballard has had. I understand if he wanted to be on a contender while we are figuring out our QB spot so... Good luck to him and I will always appreciate him for his play for the Colts. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Odds are the Colts are going to be a sub-500 this year.    Why keep a quality player who is not going to make as much if a difference when he only has one year left and he’s already 32.  
 

Get what you can for him and move on.   
 

Pkus, since this is a very good and large class of corners to draft, we might be able to get two of them this year.   Perhaps an outside guy and a slot guy.   

We should be thinking the same way about multiple of our vets. Especially if we draft someone raw like Richardson... or if we forego picking a QB and go for the QBs of next year's draft. 

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, stitches said:

We should be thinking the same way about multiple of our vets. Especially if we draft someone raw like Richardson... or if we forego picking a QB and go for the QBs of next year's draft. 

Well….  I have talked about trading Buckner.    But (A) I don’t know if the Colts think Dayo can be a full time 3-tech and (B) I don’t what his return value might be? 
 

I thought he might bring a 2?   But now, I think a 3 is the best the Colts would get.  And at this point, it might be a 3 from next years draft.   
 

And if Gilmore only gets a 5, Kenny Moore might only bring a 6 or 7.   Or,  as Shaq Mason just did with Texas,  his trade was a pick swap.  The two teams will trade a 6 or 7 with Tampa getting the better pick.   
 

On offense, Kelly and MAC are the two obvious calls.   But they might not bring anything more than a pick swap as well?   Hard to know. 
 

Anyone else? 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well….  I have talked about trading Buckner.    But (A) I don’t know if the Colts think Dayo can be a full time 3-tech and (B) I don’t what his return value might be? 
 

I thought he might bring a 2?   But now, I think a 3 is the best the Colts would get.  And at this point, it might be a 3 from next years draft.   

Yeah... I'm not sure wht Buckner can get us, but he's definitely our most valuable vet probably. He's still young enough and he still plays at high level. I wonder if the Bears wouldn't give one of their seconds for him? We all know how much Eberflus values the 3T.

 

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

And if Gilmore only gets a 5, Kenny Moore might only bring a 6 or 7.   Or,  as Shaq Mason just did with Texas,  his trade was a pick swap.  The two teams will trade a 6 or 7 with Tampa getting the better pick.   

Yeah, at this point I feel like Kenny Moore would be a similar value - pick swap of some kind. 6th for 7th, 5th for 6th, 4th for 5th... something like that. Not huge value. 

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

On offense, Kelly and MAC are the two obvious calls.   But they might not bring anything more than a pick swap as well?   Hard to know. 
 

Agreed... late round pick or pick swap of some sort. Or... maybe even they get released... 

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Anyone else? 

The big ones... Leonard and Q. Leonard unfortunately is at his lowest value ever since he's been plagued by injuries. I kind of feel like we are better off sticking with him and trying to rehab his value. Same with Q. He's had 2 underwhelming seasons in a row, again probably mainly due to injuries. What's with our training and medical staffs? I feel like all our best players get injured and then have hard time returning back to form after rehab? So yeah... I probably keep Leonard and Q unless you get some insane offer for either of them, but I don't expect it. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah... I'm not sure wht Buckner can get us, but he's definitely our most valuable vet probably. He's still young enough and he still plays at high level. I wonder if the Bears wouldn't give one of their seconds for him? We all know how much Eberflus values the 3T.

 

Yeah, at this point I feel like Kenny Moore would be a similar value - pick swap of some kind. 6th for 7th, 5th for 6th, 4th for 5th... something like that. Not huge value. 

Agreed... late round pick or pick swap of some sort. Or... maybe even they get released... 

The big ones... Leonard and Q. Leonard unfortunately is at his lowest value ever since he's been plagued by injuries. I kind of feel like we are better off sticking with him and trying to rehab his value. Same with Q. He's had 2 underwhelming seasons in a row, again probably mainly due to injuries. What's with our training and medical staffs? I feel like all our best players get injured and then have hard time returning back to form after rehab? So yeah... I probably keep Leonard and Q unless you get some insane offer for either of them, but I don't expect it. 

I can’t see the Big Two getting cut or traded.   That’s buying High and selling Low.   Need to wait another year to see if they bounce back and at least improve their value.  The dead cap hits alone  would be overwhelming.    This can be revisited a year from now.   
 

I suppose Foles is a candidate.  But saw speculation that since he hasn’t been cut as of yet that maybe the team will keep him and use him as the veteran bridge backup to help groom the rookie.  I’d be very disappointed with that call, even if a release doesn’t save much and it doesn’t.  
 

All in all today was a surprisingly quiet Day 2 of free agency.   Nothing big or surprising.   Nothing much to headline with.   Hoping for a more interesting day with maybe a decision on Campbell. 

[smittywerb]

6 hours ago, husker61 said:

Terrible trade. If you only get an end of the 5th round pick, you have to keep him. His value is worth more to the colts than that pick unless you have to get under the cap and the colts don’t have to. That pick really isn’t worth much at all.

this wasn’t a move to “get better”.  This was a move to allow a vet player to compete while we shed salary.  Keeping him wouldn’t look good to any players that want to come here.  This is how you attract free agents.  By showing them that we respect them as players and people and not PFF scores.  We’re not competing for the next 2-3 years.  Why hold him Hostage and make him unhappy?

[stitches]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I can’t see the Big Two getting cut or traded.   That’s buying High and selling Low.   Need to wait another year to see if they bounce back and at least improve their value.  The dead cap hits alone  would be overwhelming.    This can be revisited a year from now.   

 

Oh definitely. I'm not talking about cutting them. Try to rehab their value for sure. But lets say... some contender offers you a 1st for Q... would you accept it? This IMO needs to be seriously considered.

 

I'm really scared for Leonard though... He's had horrible luck with injuries and then with rehab, he's had horrible luck with concussions too. He's already had like... 2 or 3 concussions on the record. Who knows how many undiagnosed. He needs to have a clean, healthy season and return at least to some degree to form. Such a shame... those last 2 seasons. He's been one of my favorite Colts players on the field. 

 

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I suppose Foles is a candidate.  But saw speculation that since he hasn’t been cut as of yet that maybe the team will keep him and use him as the veteran bridge backup to help groom the rookie.  I’d be very disappointed with that call, even if a release doesn’t save much and it doesn’t.  
 

Yes, I forgot Foles. IMO he gets cut too. I don't think anyone would give you even a 7th for him... so... cut it is... he doesn't save a lot of money but he's not good enough to be your bridge and if you are signing another QB to be the bridge, IMO he's entirely redundant. So he probably gets cut.

 

BTW if they keep him to be THE bridge, this would signal to me they are really not trying to win and don't mind picking very high in next year's draft too... 

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

All in all today was a surprisingly quiet Day 2 of free agency.   Nothing big or surprising.   Nothing much to headline with.   Hoping for a more interesting day with maybe a decision on Campbell. 

For the Colts it actually was somewhat of an active day... Ballard usually don't make wave 1 signings at all, so Ebukam is a big one. Trading Gilmore was big move (not with regard to compensation, but with regard to opening a hole on the roster). News about releasing Matt Ryan is expected but has big implications about our cap... 

 

With us losing Gilmore and Facyson, I expect Ballard to go after some of the available CBs in FA. Possibly Shaq Griffin? Rock?!?!? Bunting? 

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Oh definitely. I'm not talking about cutting them. Try to rehab their value for sure. But lets say... some contender offers you a 1st for Q... would you accept it? This IMO needs to be seriously considered.

 

I'm really scared for Leonard though... He's had horrible luck with injuries and then with rehab, he's had horrible luck with concussions too. He's already had like... 2 or 3 concussions on the record. Who knows how many undiagnosed. He needs to have a clean, healthy season and return at least to some degree to form. Such a shame... those last 2 seasons. He's been one of my favorite Colts players on the field. 

 

Yes, I forgot Foles. IMO he gets cut too. I don't think anyone would give you even a 7th for him... so... cut it is... he doesn't save a lot of money but he's not good enough to be your bridge and if you are signing another QB to be the bridge, IMO he's entirely redundant. So he probably gets cut. 

For the Colts it actually was somewhat of an active day... Ballard usually don't make wave 1 signings at all, so Ebukam is a big one. Trading Gilmore was big move (not with regard to compensation, but with regard to opening a hole on the roster). News about releasing Matt Ryan is expected but has big implications about our cap... 

 

With us losing Gilmore and Facyson, I expect Ballard to go after some of the available CBs in FA. Possibly Shaq Griffin? Rock?!?!? Bunting? 

I did see someone post that the Colts are very encouraged with Shaq.   That the team would have kept Oke if they thought Shaq wasn’t going to make it back.  That was encouraging.  
 

As for a free agent corner?  I had thought the Colts might make a run at Rock?   Maybe 3/27?   And with the Samson signing I thought the Colts might instead grab a top corner at 35 and then double dip in R4 or 5.   I’m very encouraged by this big class of tall and long corners.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I did see someone post that the Colts are very encouraged with Shaq.   That the team would have kept Oke if they thought Shaq wasn’t going to make it back.  That was encouraging.   As for a free agent corner?  I had thought the Colts might make a run at Rock?   Maybe 3/27?   And with the Samson signing I thought the Colts might instead grab a top corner at 35 and then double dip in R4 or 5.   I’m very encouraged by this big class of tall and long corners.

Four corners the Colts have had interest in at various times so far at 35 this offseason are Deonte Banks, Emmanuel Forbes, Julius Brents, and now Kelee Ringo. The Colts are doing their due diligence trying to find the right guy at 35.

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I did see someone post that the Colts are very encouraged with Shaq.   That the team would have kept Oke if they thought Shaq wasn’t going to make it back.  That was encouraging.  
 

I mean... there have been conflicting vibes coming from the Colts. Ballard refused to give even the slightest lip service optimistic take on Leonard's health when asked... this was an eyebrow raiser... I think they didn't keep Okereke because it would have just been too expensive. I am not sure how much it has to do with Leonard's health. 

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

As for a free agent corner?  I had thought the Colts might make a run at Rock?   Maybe 3/27?   And with the Samson signing I thought the Colts might instead grab a top corner at 35 and then double dip in R4 or 5.   I’m very encouraged by this big class of tall and long corners.

Yes, the draft is strong with CBs... I wonder how many will go in the top 100? Possibly about 15? I think CB with either of the day 2 picks is a high possibility. Someone posted in the other thread that we are getting Kelee Ringo for top 30 visit. You will probably need to take him at 35 if you want him. Or maybe a slight trade back ? 

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Four corners the Colts have had interest in at various times so far at 35 this offseason are Deonte Banks, Emmanuel Forbes, Julius Brents, and now Kelee Ringo. The Colts are doing their due diligence trying to find the right guy at 35.

Forbes is soooooooo weird... He's like 6'1"... long arms... 32"+ ... but he's 166lbs... wth? But he's a turnover machine! 14 interceptions, 6 of them pick 6.... 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Forbes is soooooooo weird... He's like 6'1"... long arms... 32"+ ... but he's 166lbs... wth? But he's a turnover machine! 14 interceptions, 6 of them pick 6.... 

Yeah, I would personally take him at 35 though. He's an absolute playmaker and could easily be our no1 CB now with Gilmore gone.

[TomDiggs]

22 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

With us losing Gilmore and Facyson, I expect Ballard to go after some of the available CBs in FA. Possibly Shaq Griffin? Rock?!?!? Bunting? 

I like Bunting a lot but he’s more a slot. Bringing rock back could make sense but only if he wanted to be back. He was shipped out because he was solid in man coverage. Went to a raiders team that was top-10 in man coverage rate where the colts were bottom-10 in man coverage rate and played a lot of zone. 
 

I would like to go after a guy like Isaiah Oliver if we move on from Kenny in the slot or if we think he can play boundary. 
 

but there aren’t as many good outside corners in free agency this year compared to slot guys. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

Oh definitely. I'm not talking about cutting them. Try to rehab their value for sure. But lets say... some contender offers you a 1st for Q... would you accept it? This IMO needs to be seriously considered.

 

I'm really scared for Leonard though... He's had horrible luck with injuries and then with rehab, he's had horrible luck with concussions too. He's already had like... 2 or 3 concussions on the record. Who knows how many undiagnosed. He needs to have a clean, healthy season and return at least to some degree to form. Such a shame... those last 2 seasons. He's been one of my favorite Colts players on the field. 

 

Yes, I forgot Foles. IMO he gets cut too. I don't think anyone would give you even a 7th for him... so... cut it is... he doesn't save a lot of money but he's not good enough to be your bridge and if you are signing another QB to be the bridge, IMO he's entirely redundant. So he probably gets cut.

 

BTW if they keep him to be THE bridge, this would signal to me they are really not trying to win and don't mind picking very high in next year's draft too... 

For the Colts it actually was somewhat of an active day... Ballard usually don't make wave 1 signings at all, so Ebukam is a big one. Trading Gilmore was big move (not with regard to compensation, but with regard to opening a hole on the roster). News about releasing Matt Ryan is expected but has big implications about our cap... 

 

With us losing Gilmore and Facyson, I expect Ballard to go after some of the available CBs in FA. Possibly Shaq Griffin? Rock?!?!? Bunting? 

I think Griffin and Rock are ideal replacements for Gilmore.  Now that the Cardinals have lost their CB Murphy in FA I wonder if they would be open to taking Moore as the compensation of trading their pick 3 for our pick 4 in the draft. They get a veteran replacement that Gannon knows and we move up and receive more cap relief.  

[ColtsGermany]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I think Griffin and Rock are ideal replacements for Gilmore.  Now that the Cardinals have lost their CB Murphy in FA I wonder if they would be open to taking Moore as the compensation of trading their pick 3 for our pick 4 in the draft. They get a veteran replacement that Gannon knows and we move up and receive more cap relief.  

Like the idea of shipping moore to Cards. But I think they get better offers than only a vet coming of a down year. Even if it means trading down to 6,7 or 8.

But if we put a 2nd rounder for next year on top and maybe the 5th rounder we got from cowboys... 

[lollygagger8]

I'm happy for Gilmore that he got to go to a slightly better team. Unfortunately for him, with Dak at the helm, that team isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

At least the Colts got something for a 32 yr old CB. Plus, this draft is deep at CB. 

 

If they only got a 5th for Gilmore, Moore is prob worth a ham sandwich at best. 

[bluephantom87]

15 hours ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

This is why I cant be apart of the off-season talk. I just don't understand lol.. we lose key guys, save money and get younger guys every year? lol. We barely sign folks in free agency.. I dont get the plan for us to be great!

HELP ME!!! lol

 

The PLAN is to REBUILD again after six LONG years of little to no accomplishments that's to be spearheaded by the very gm that played a MAJOR role in the team's OVERALL lackluster  journey in the first place. Got it...  Hopefully the 10yr plan works out better so we can finally end the CONTINUED delayed gratification process. I'll give Ballard one thing he's the MASTER of smoke and mirrors to go along with some slight of hand because he's FOOLED some into believing that HIS chess moves are gospel even though the RESULTS can't validate it.

[CS Coltsfan]

15 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

They asked for Ballard to be active and boy he sends our best defensive player from last year away lol 

Ballard thinks he is Kevin Costner in Draft Day.... He's NOT !!

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

I think that narrative sounds good to say until you consider a few things:

 

1) Ballard has a track record of hitting on a bunch of picks in that 140+ range where the fifth round begins (comp pick is around pick 169 I think and 5th rd begins at pick 136 this year)

2) when you hit, that’s four years of cheap labor at around 670k a year

 

if you can identify good players to develop that fit, you set your team up very well got the future when you have to extend big money players or get expensive free agents

 

so far the colts haven’t gotten much in the way of expensive FAs. But when your rookie qb is making around $6M a year for four years instead of the $40-$50M the decent ones go for now, we will have a big chance in the next 2-3 years to be key players if we are competing by year 2-3. That’s when having depth or if lucky a starter or two you hit on for 670k becomes big big

 

ballard has selected the following decent to great players w pick 140 or beyond:

 

Grover Stewart (144)

Marlon Mack (143)

Anthony Walker (161)

Jordan Wilkins (169)

Zaire Franklin (235)

Isaiah Rodgers (211)

Danny Pinter (149)

EJ Speed (164)

 

that’s around 8 of 20 or so picks at that range where this years fifth round starts or higher that we’re good gets. 
 

if he’s gonna hit on 40% or so of these guys being solid spot starters or contributors for cheap labor, getting more dart throws in that range is worthwhile 

 

just my humble opinion 

 

It's a pick in the 160s, so I think we can remove guys like Grover and Mack.

 

I think both can be true. A 5th round comp pick really isn't valuable, but it's also not worthless either.

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

I think that narrative sounds good to say until you consider a few things:

 

1) Ballard has a track record of hitting on a bunch of picks in that 140+ range where the fifth round begins (comp pick is around pick 169 I think and 5th rd begins at pick 136 this year)

2) when you hit, that’s four years of cheap labor at around 670k a year

 

if you can identify good players to develop that fit, you set your team up very well got the future when you have to extend big money players or get expensive free agents

 

so far the colts haven’t gotten much in the way of expensive FAs. But when your rookie qb is making around $6M a year for four years instead of the $40-$50M the decent ones go for now, we will have a big chance in the next 2-3 years to be key players if we are competing by year 2-3. That’s when having depth or if lucky a starter or two you hit on for 670k becomes big big

 

ballard has selected the following decent to great players w pick 140 or beyond:

 

Grover Stewart (144)

Marlon Mack (143)

Anthony Walker (161)

Jordan Wilkins (169)

Zaire Franklin (235)

Isaiah Rodgers (211)

Danny Pinter (149)

EJ Speed (164)

 

that’s around 8 of 20 or so picks at that range where this years fifth round starts or higher that we’re good gets. 
 

if he’s gonna hit on 40% or so of these guys being solid spot starters or contributors for cheap labor, getting more dart throws in that range is worthwhile 

 

just my humble opinion 

 Let's let Ballard make  the picks after the 4th round and let someone else pick in the early rounds lol??

[shasta519]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think Griffin and Rock are ideal replacements for Gilmore.  Now that the Cardinals have lost their CB Murphy in FA I wonder if they would be open to taking Moore as the compensation of trading their pick 3 for our pick 4 in the draft. They get a veteran replacement that Gannon knows and we move up and receive more cap relief.  

 

If I had to guess, RYS is not a fit for Bradley's defense. 

 

As for Griffin....just re-watch the 2nd game against JAC where Matt Ryan picked on him all game. And then he got burnt by Alec Pierce for the winning TD, who couldn't get open all season. I am curious if Griffin even gets a contract with that tape from last year.

[richard pallo]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

If I had to guess, RYS is not a fit for Bradley's defense. 

 

As for Griffin....just re-watch the 2nd game against JAC where Matt Ryan picked on him all game. And then he got burnt by Alec Pierce for the winning TD, who couldn't get open all season. I am curious if Griffin even gets a contract with that tape from last year.

Griffin is not a strong man cornerback.  He works best in a zone scheme like the Colts.  That’s why Gilmore bounced back he went to the zone scheme the Colts play.  I think Griffin could do the same thing.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Griffin is not a strong man cornerback.  He works best in a zone scheme like the Colts.  That’s why Gilmore bounced back he went to the zone scheme the Colts play.  I think Griffin could do the same thing.

 

There will always be situations where you are caught in man, and it is a strong CB class. We should have options. If we can't get the CBs from the draft, he could be a late addition.

[Patrick Miller]

 

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There will always be situations where you are caught in man, and it is a strong CB class. We should have options. If we can't get the CBs from the draft, he could be a late addition.

 

In that game against IND, Griffin gave up 8 for 123 and a TD. And honestly, it felt like more. I saw him steps behind WRs several times.

 

On the season, he gave up a 110 passer rating.

 

He did go on IR the following game with a back injury, so maybe that played a big role. But even if I could be convinced that was the problem, then that's just another risk added to it.

 

Bottom line, if the Colts #32-ranked 2022 offense and Matt Ryan are able to exploit a CB...I wouldn't risk him ending up in any man situation.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

 

 

There is some truth to that. But given the context, it's quite the stretch to make this comparison.

 

Hurts was a rookie in that 2020 season and got valuable PT, which set up the year 2 improvements...and eventually the year 3 leap.

 

With this likely being that rookie year for a QB with the Colts, they are a year behind that timeline.

 

Plus, Hurts was a 2nd round pick, which allowed PHI to use early draft capital from that 2020 season to net more draft capital AND add weapons, including Devonta Smith and eventually AJB...both better than any WR that will likely be on the Colts the next couple of season.

 

And the Colts will not have that flexibility, as the #4 will go that QB.

 

Now I could see this season being like the 2020 season was for PHI. And then in 2024, IND is a fringe playoff team...and then makes a big leap in 2025 as the QB develops. 

 

But more realistically, I think the Colts are where CHI was when they drafted Fields.

 

[Blueblood23]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Odds are the Colts are going to be a sub-500 this year.    Why keep a quality player who is not going to make as much if a difference when he only has one year left and he’s already 32.  
 

Get what you can for him and move on.   
 

Plus, since this is a very good and large class of corners to draft, we might be able to get two of them this year.   Perhaps an outside guy and a slot guy.   

Quincy Wilson and Rock Ya-sin,and Green picked in early rounds were a miss along with a few more I can’t think of. Don’t have any confidence with them drafting corners when they had a very good one and traded it away for a 5th.

[BlackTiger]

We have a glaring hole a CB now.  If we dont sign a veteran starter its pretty clear they are not super worried about winning anything next year

 

I get it but i think we could have had a winning record with Stroud or Young and kept the defense in tact 

[superrep1967]

19 hours ago, smittywerb said:

I respect this move.  He wants to win.  We’re essentially rebuilding.  He played well for us and we can’t give him what he wants currently.  

Rebuilding at what positions? 

[TomDiggs]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

It's a pick in the 160s, so I think we can remove guys like Grover and Mack.

 

I think both can be true. A 5th round comp pick really isn't valuable, but it's also not worthless either.

 

Roger and i am even fine w that. if we change the narrative to picks 160+ then his relative success rate is 5 out of 14...so around 36%....not far off from the 40% i mentioned prior. Either way he has a 1 in 3 or 2 in 5 change of success on those later picks. which isnt bad at all. giving him more of those shots is worthwhile. 

 

is it worth more than gilmore for this season? heck no.

 

is it worth more than gilmore for 2-3 years from now when you consider we probably are not going anywhere this year and gilmore is likely not here beyond this season?.....i sure think so. but just my humble opinion. 

[NewColtsFan]

48 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Quincy Wilson and Rock Ya-sin,and Green picked in early rounds were a miss along with a few more I can’t think of. Don’t have any confidence with them drafting corners when they had a very good one and traded it away for a 5th.

Green was drafted by Grigson in 2016, and maybe I’m misremembering, but wasn’t he a safety?    Either way, Grigson. 
 

And Rock has turned into a decent player.  
 

Quincy was the youngest player in the 2017 draft.   Turns out too young and immature.   But he was drafted exactly where he was projected.   Just didn’t work out.   I think he was a kid that might have been flagged by someone like Decker, but he didn’t join the Colts until a year later.  

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Oh definitely. I'm not talking about cutting them. Try to rehab their value for sure. But lets say... some contender offers you a 1st for Q... would you accept it? This IMO needs to be seriously considered.

 

I'm really scared for Leonard though... He's had horrible luck with injuries and then with rehab, he's had horrible luck with concussions too. He's already had like... 2 or 3 concussions on the record. Who knows how many undiagnosed. He needs to have a clean, healthy season and return at least to some degree to form. Such a shame... those last 2 seasons. He's been one of my favorite Colts players on the field. 

 

Yes, I forgot Foles. IMO he gets cut too. I don't think anyone would give you even a 7th for him... so... cut it is... he doesn't save a lot of money but he's not good enough to be your bridge and if you are signing another QB to be the bridge, IMO he's entirely redundant. So he probably gets cut.

 

BTW if they keep him to be THE bridge, this would signal to me they are really not trying to win and don't mind picking very high in next year's draft too... 

For the Colts it actually was somewhat of an active day... Ballard usually don't make wave 1 signings at all, so Ebukam is a big one. Trading Gilmore was big move (not with regard to compensation, but with regard to opening a hole on the roster). News about releasing Matt Ryan is expected but has big implications about our cap... 

 

With us losing Gilmore and Facyson, I expect Ballard to go after some of the available CBs in FA. Possibly Shaq Griffin? Rock?!?!? Bunting? 

Sorry, I wasn’t more clear…. 

When I was talking about a slow day 2, I was talking League-wide.   but you’re right, it’s been an active day 1 AND 2 for the Colts.   More signings than normal for the first few days even though we all wanted more activity and more information. 
 

But League-wide, it seems like day 2 and today on day 3 have been slower than I remember in past years.   I don’t know if it’s because this is such a poor free agency class?   But I’ve expected more activity by now.   To me there’s already a feel of teams feeling like they’re picking over the leftovers.  
 

Maybe I’m making more of it than others?   But that’s what it feels like to me.