Has anyone considered Lamar Jackson? (merge)

[Hoose]

15 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Lots of people throwing spaghetti on the wall with their bias on Lamar included about his throwing abilities. Throwing a comparison.

 

Josh Allen:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

 

 

Lamar Jackson:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00.htm

 

Folks still have this bias against QBs that can run to ignore the reality, IMO. The true issue is not Lamar’s throwing abilities that are much improved. The issue is the amount of guaranteed money in light of the games missed the last 2 years. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less.
 

 

Fair enough. But either way, the answer should be a hard no. 

[NFLfan]

50 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Lots of people throwing spaghetti on the wall with their bias on Lamar included about his throwing abilities. Throwing a comparison.

 

Josh Allen:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

 

 

Lamar Jackson:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00.htm

 

Folks still have this bias against QBs that can run to ignore the reality, IMO. The true issue is not Lamar’s throwing abilities that are much improved. The issue is the amount of guaranteed money in light of the games missed the last 2 years. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less.
 

 

In response to what you quoted, I think it is more than that. Even before he entered the league, folks had problems with drafting him. I remember one Jets fan who wrote a blog, arguing to have the Jets draft Lamar Jackson back when he was in the draft. Most who replied wrote that they did not want a "running QB". In retrospect, he may have been a better option for them. Years later, the Jets have drafted two QBs with top 5 picks and neither panned out. (I like Darnold and would have kept him if I were the GM but that is a separate argument.) 

 

Anyway, I am certainly against giving ANY PLAYER a guaranteed contract -- Jackson, Cousins, even Mahomes. Football is a sport that can end one's career on one play. Giving a guaranteed contract is not a smart thing to do. 

[krunk]

17 hours ago, coltsfanej said:

Sign him and trade back? From 35? If we sign him we lose our 4th pick and nexts years 1st rounder. 
 

the status of Jackson requires whoever signs him to give up 2-first round picks. The picks must be their own or greater value. 

I dont think its a 1st from this year. According to this article its a 1st in 24 and a 1st in 25

www.stampedeblue.com/2023/3/22/23651123/indianapolis-lamar-jackson

[07dleigh]

Any of you guys truly think that any of the QB's available to us via draft at 4 or even 3 will out-win Lamar in the next 4-5 years? We've had no answer at QB for years.. our owner is tired and says we're done with that ^%#!... there's a unanimous 26 y/o MVP QB on the market.. to me this is a no brainer. I get that the draft is usually how you start anew, but 26 y/o MVP QB's don't typically become available.

 

If we end up regretting it in 3 years, I, personally, am okay with that. At least we tried. We can do a full rebuild then.. at least we got exciting football.

 

Just because we acquire a sub-23 y/o QB doesn't mean we can check off "solving QB". It seems like those two things are synonymous to some.

 

I mean.. the guy threw for 442 against us... we were poor in defending the pass... but c'mon... he LIT us up. He was spectacular. We had all the momentum in the world in that game.. everything was going our way... but we were checkmated by an ELITE level QB. That's what they do.

 

Now scheme-wise, maybe someone can shut me up here, because I'm not GREAT at assessing and analyzing scheme. Does he not fit what Steichen would look to do here? Dual threat QB that will let it GO on vertical patterns? Also, if injury is concern, I'd argue that we have a top 5 RB, the Ravens did not, so we could reduce his running by a little to preserve him.

 

It's a no brainer. We've been scared to splash & we haven't had QB & we haven't won much. Splash on the QB that only knows how to win. It's up to the coaches to get him past the other AFC QB's in the playoffs.

[RollerColt]

 

[GoColts8818]

Oh look it’s this thread again…

 

 

[richard pallo]

Yes.  It is a no brainer.  Irsay actually liked a tweet suggesting it yesterday.  So hopefully we have started talks.  We can only hope.  

[funktacious2]

I’m not opposed to it. It kind of just depends on what we would give up. The obvious silver lining to drafting a QB at 4 is that we don’t give up picks and don’t have to pay a QB 32 million a year when we are arguably not a contender even with Lamar. I personally think this team still has enough other problems that I’m fine with the team going the route of drafting a guy they like at 4. It’s really up to what the FO sees at this point. Maybe Lamar really is the best option. Who knows

[Jackie Daytona]

12 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

Any of you guys truly think that any of the QB's available to us via draft at 4 or even 3 will out-win Lamar in the next 4-5 years? We've had no answer at QB for years.. our owner is tired and says we're done with that ^%#!... there's a unanimous 26 y/o MVP QB on the market.. to me this is a no brainer. I get that the draft is usually how you start anew, but 26 y/o MVP QB's don't typically become available.

 

If we end up regretting it in 3 years, I, personally, am okay with that. At least we tried. We can do a full rebuild then.. at least we got exciting football.

 

Just because we acquire a sub-23 y/o QB doesn't mean we can check off "solving QB". It seems like those two things are synonymous to some.

 

I mean.. the guy threw for 442 against us... we were poor in defending the pass... but c'mon... he LIT us up. He was spectacular. We had all the momentum in the world in that game.. everything was going our way... but we were checkmated by an ELITE level QB. That's what they do.

 

Now scheme-wise, maybe someone can shut me up here, because I'm not GREAT at assessing and analyzing scheme. Does he not fit what Steichen would look to do here? Dual threat QB that will let it GO on vertical patterns? Also, if injury is concern, I'd argue that we have a top 5 RB, the Ravens did not, so we could reduce his running by a little to preserve him.

 

It's a no brainer. We've been scared to splash & we haven't had QB & we haven't won much. Splash on the QB that only knows how to win. It's up to the coaches to get him past the other AFC QB's in the playoffs.

You cannot have "all the momentum in the game" while giving up 442 yards passing,,,, I'd say Baltimore had to have had at least a bit of it......

[RNGDShobby]

The only way I'm on board is if he takes a team friendly deal. We still need to build around him. He alone does not make us SB contenders. Barely even playoff contenders.
MAYBE, the Ravens have * him off enough that he just wants out and will go anywhere, but they have first right of refusal. Even if he accepts a team friendly deal elsewhere, the Ravens will just match it.
It's a % situation for everyone involved. No one wants to do the Ravens negotiating for them.

[RNGDShobby]

2 minutes ago, funktacious2 said:

I’m not opposed to it. It kind of just depends on what we would give up. The obvious silver lining to drafting a QB at 4 is that we don’t give up picks and don’t have to pay a QB 32 million a year when we are arguably not a contender even with Lamar. I personally think this team still has enough other problems that I’m fine with the team going the route of drafting a guy they like at 4. It’s really up to what the FO sees at this point. Maybe Lamar really is the best option. Who knows

32m per year isn't even half bad really. I'd pay that. But not fully guaranteed. There would be some big injury conditions. And it's unlikely he'd agree to those.

[cdgacoltsfan]

26 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Yes.  It is a no brainer.  Irsay actually liked a tweet suggesting it yesterday.  So hopefully we have started talks.  We can only hope.  

Irsay also tweeted himself as a kid on a bear and I recall you saying that meant we were definitely trading for Fields. Irsay gets a kick out of teasing gullible fans.

[Patrick Miller]

1) Jackson is not an elite passer

2) Great runner but how long will that last?

3) injury prone-didn’t finish last two seasons

4) Wants too much money. Do you want 20% of the teams cap wrapped up in him?

[John Waylon]

I’m sure there’s been some contact made, but I’m guessing they wouldn’t pull that trigger until after the draft. If they only like 2 or 3 of these QBs at 4 and they’re all gone by the time we get there I could see us trading back to make up some of the picks we’d give up in the deal. 
 

The only way the Ravens won’t match the deal is if it’s a total cap-strangling albatross, though. Is that what we really want?

[07dleigh]

24 minutes ago, funktacious2 said:

I’m not opposed to it. It kind of just depends on what we would give up. The obvious silver lining to drafting a QB at 4 is that we don’t give up picks and don’t have to pay a QB 32 million a year when we are arguably not a contender even with Lamar. I personally think this team still has enough other problems that I’m fine with the team going the route of drafting a guy they like at 4. It’s really up to what the FO sees at this point. Maybe Lamar really is the best option. Who knows

 

I actually see us as a contender with Lamar easily. Obviously we'd need to add a little more, but I could see him beating the Jags twice.

[07dleigh]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

1) Jackson is not an elite passer

2) Great runner but how long will that last?

3) injury prone-didn’t finish last two seasons

4) Wants too much money. Do you want 20% of the teams cap wrapped up in him?

 

Hurts is not an elite passer either, though. Neither is Anthony Richardson.

[bestQBever]

If we're assuming stroud and young are gonna be off the board by 4, I am definitely down for giving the pick up as well as next years 1st for Lamar. Lamar >>> (Richardson + 2024 1st rd pick) or (Levis + 2024 1st rd pick). It's a simple formula.

[07dleigh]

I guess injury history doesn't concern me that much at the QB position.. even as a dual threat. But I totally understand that concern. Valid.

[Solid84]

Lamar has not played a full season in his career and gotten worse every year since his MVP season.

[iuswingman]

I don't think it's that smart to take a QB that a much better runner than a passer when he is having reoccurring injury issues.  His ability to help is directly linked to his ability to run and he is apparently refusing to sign anywhere that doesn't guarantee his salary when he has no way of guaranteeing that he stays healthy enough to earn it. 

 

The only way it makes sense is if we can sign him after the draft so we aren't giving up this year's pick and he starts being more reasonable.  Of course, if we get him to a reasonable contract, Ravens would just match anyway.

 

So not happening.

[iuswingman]

17 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

 

Hurts is not an elite passer either, though. Neither is Anthony Richardson.

 

They haven't dealt with injuries as consistently.  Richardson would also be on a rookie contract and Hurts isn't making anywhere near the amount that Lamar is wanting and only half of his much smaller salary is guaranteed.

 

You can take more risks with a QB if their salary isn't that big.

 

Lamar Jackson turned down a $50 million per year contract

 

Hurts is on a $1.5 million per year contract.

 

Having to write off Hurts if he gets injured would not be anywhere near the same as having to deal with Lamar being injured and taking up $50 million of your cap.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, 07dleigh said:

Any of you guys truly think that any of the QB's available to us via draft at 4 or even 3 will out-win Lamar in the next 4-5 years? We've had no answer at QB for years.. our owner is tired and says we're done with that ^%#!... there's a unanimous 26 y/o MVP QB on the market.. to me this is a no brainer. I get that the draft is usually how you start anew, but 26 y/o MVP QB's don't typically become available.

 

If we end up regretting it in 3 years, I, personally, am okay with that. At least we tried. We can do a full rebuild then.. at least we got exciting football.

 

Just because we acquire a sub-23 y/o QB doesn't mean we can check off "solving QB". It seems like those two things are synonymous to some.

 

I mean.. the guy threw for 442 against us... we were poor in defending the pass... but c'mon... he LIT us up. He was spectacular. We had all the momentum in the world in that game.. everything was going our way... but we were checkmated by an ELITE level QB. That's what they do.

 

Now scheme-wise, maybe someone can shut me up here, because I'm not GREAT at assessing and analyzing scheme. Does he not fit what Steichen would look to do here? Dual threat QB that will let it GO on vertical patterns? Also, if injury is concern, I'd argue that we have a top 5 RB, the Ravens did not, so we could reduce his running by a little to preserve him.

 

It's a no brainer. We've been scared to splash & we haven't had QB & we haven't won much. Splash on the QB that only knows how to win. It's up to the coaches to get him past the other AFC QB's in the playoffs.

 

Not disagreeing with you but I think the Lamar thing isn't just about the two #1 picks and the huge contract..... It's about  FULLY GUARANTEED CONTRACT that the NFL owners are against and seems like their uniting(collusion) to keep that away. 

[sb41champs]

N O spells NO NO NO NO NO!!

 

We would have to trade a "kings ransom" in draft picks or players just to get Lamar Jackson in Colts blue!!

 

THEN - we would have to PAY Lamar Jackson a "kings ransom" in salary to PLAY in Colts blue!!

 

I believe THAT would set our franchise back significantly more - in both the short and long term - than drafting a rookie - even if he has to "learn on the job".

 

Lamar Jackson has already turned down one contract offer - and - has his eyes firmly set on getting what DeShaun Watson got from the Cleveland Browns.

 

There is a REASON that no other teams have attempted to sign Lamar Jackson in the first wave of free agency.  He's already "overplayed" his hand - and - may have to take less money than he's already turned down.

 

 

[Jackie Daytona]

I think it's like JMV said.  The colts have a strong idea that the guy they truly want, will be available at 4.  (Levis). Because if there was any doubt, Irsay/Ballard would have aggressively pursued to first overall in a trade.

 

They likely believe Levis will be available (Young/Stroud/DL or Richardson top three....

 

People have such tunnel vision on Richardson and to a lesser extent Stroud/Young....  They o fully expect the fanbase to freak out if they draft Levis, possibly while passing on Richardson.

 

 

 

[coming on strong]

43 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

1) Jackson is not an elite passer

2) Great runner but how long will that last?

3) injury prone-didn’t finish last two seasons

4) Wants too much money. Do you want 20% of the teams cap wrapped up in him?

this is true   lamar never passed for 4,000 yards and only passed for over 3,000 yards once  in 5 years .   he only passed for over 30 touchdowns once in  his career  and over 20 touchdowns twice in 5 years .       he is not a elite passer he is more built how rg3 was everything is based on him running and throwing into wide open lanes from his running style .    put him in a drop back passing offense and the same thing that happened to rg3 will happen .

 

cam newton won the mvp too and starting falling off every year after that until he stunk .    same thing is happening with lamar he passes for 36 touchdowns then 26  , 16 and 17 .     he has been beat up and injured too so its crazy to pay 50 million a year and give up two draft picks .   our roster has holes and where are we gonna get 50 million any way

[chad72]

16 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

I think it's like JMV said.  The colts have a strong idea that the guy they truly want, will be available at 4.  (Levis). Because if there was any doubt, Irsay/Ballard would have aggressively pursued to first overall in a trade.

 

They likely believe Levis will be available (Young/Stroud/DL or Richardson top three....

 

People have such tunnel vision on Richardson and to a lesser extent Stroud/Young....  They o fully expect the fanbase to freak out if they draft Levis, possibly while passing on Richardson.

 

 

When all the top 4 QBs have flaws, and the next 2 (AR and Levis) are considered lesser than the Top 2, it shouldn't matter who the Colts choose as long as Ballard and Steichen are on the same page to have a plan to develop them. You can't get attached to a player, just focus on the plan to develop the strengths and minimize the weaknesses, and then you can develop a winning QB, IMO.

 

A QB who runs might make up for the lack of accuracy with their legs (Richardson), a QB that can be accurate may not run much or want to utilize that part of their game much (Stroud), a QB that can navigate the pocket and be accurate may not be prone to taking hits as much because they read Ds well though small in stature (Young), or a QB that can stretch the field and get their passes into tight windows because of their arm might feel they can make all throws (Levis).

 

Heck, even Mahomes and Burrow have flaws and NFL DCs will find a way to limit them, that is why football is a team game. Finding faults with any drafted QB can start with obvious flaws and end up with cherry picking. That is why I am not truly concerned who the Colts pick as long as they have a plan.

[Tsarquise]

Again with this thread? 

 

If you have no brain it is a no brainer, sure. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, 07dleigh said:

Any of you guys truly think that any of the QB's available to us via draft at 4 or even 3 will out-win Lamar in the next 4-5 years? We've had no answer at QB for years.. our owner is tired and says we're done with that ^%#!... there's a unanimous 26 y/o MVP QB on the market.. to me this is a no brainer. I get that the draft is usually how you start anew, but 26 y/o MVP QB's don't typically become available.

 

If we end up regretting it in 3 years, I, personally, am okay with that. At least we tried. We can do a full rebuild then.. at least we got exciting football.

 

Just because we acquire a sub-23 y/o QB doesn't mean we can check off "solving QB". It seems like those two things are synonymous to some.

 

I mean.. the guy threw for 442 against us... we were poor in defending the pass... but c'mon... he LIT us up. He was spectacular. We had all the momentum in the world in that game.. everything was going our way... but we were checkmated by an ELITE level QB. That's what they do.

 

Now scheme-wise, maybe someone can shut me up here, because I'm not GREAT at assessing and analyzing scheme. Does he not fit what Steichen would look to do here? Dual threat QB that will let it GO on vertical patterns? Also, if injury is concern, I'd argue that we have a top 5 RB, the Ravens did not, so we could reduce his running by a little to preserve him.

 

It's a no brainer. We've been scared to splash & we haven't had QB & we haven't won much. Splash on the QB that only knows how to win. It's up to the coaches to get him past the other AFC QB's in the playoffs.

A no brainer is posting in the appropriate thread.. where this has been debated for weeks…

[chad72]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

A no brainer is posting in the appropriate thread.. where this has been debated for weeks…

 

Won't be the first time, won't be the last...too hard to resist being the click bait...  

[07dleigh]

13 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

this is true   lamar never passed for 4,000 yards and only passed for over 3,000 yards once  in 5 years .   he only passed for over 30 touchdowns once in  his career  and over 20 touchdowns twice in 5 years .       he is not a elite passer he is more built how rg3 was everything is based on him running and throwing into wide open lanes from his running style .    put him in a drop back passing offense and the same thing that happened to rg3 will happen .

 

cam newton won the mvp too and starting falling off every year after that until he stunk .    same thing is happening with lamar he passes for 36 touchdowns then 26  , 16 and 17 .     he has been beat up and injured too so its crazy to pay 50 million a year and give up two draft picks .   our roster has holes and where are we gonna get 50 million any way

 

Man I see a bunch of numbers and yards... what about wins? No?

 

Jalen Hurts only passed for 22 touchdowns...

 

What are we talking about here? You'll happily sacrifice wins and relevance for more passing yards?

[BeanDiasucci]

54 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

 

Hurts is not an elite passer either, though. Neither is Anthony Richardson.

Hurts was close to an elite passer in 2022. Among the NFL leaders in several key passing categories. 

 

4th in quarterback rating, 3rd in avg yards per pass attempt (8.0), 10th in completion percentage (66.5), 10th in yards per game (246.7), 22 TDs to 6 INTs

 

Jackson's passing numbers are middle of the league among starting QBs. Not elite, but still a better passer than some here would imply.

 

Comparing either of these guys to Anthony Richardson at this point in his career doesn't make sense. Maybe some day he'll be close to the passer they are (probably not in my opinion, but who knows?), but right now he was much worse as a college passer this season than Hurts and Jackson are as NFL passers. 

 

 

 

 

[rockywoj]

A lot of noise on Sirius XM NFL Channel’s Moving the Chains, saying Colts should offer a 3 year fully guaranteed contract with the franchise tag thereafter off the table. 
 

As much as Lamar may indeed be, as a player, the “no brainer” alternative to what’s available in this draft, no way I want the team to give up TWO number 1s, this year being a premium pick, for a guy that might be gone in after 3 years.  
 

If he’s locked up for 5 years or more, ok, then maybe I can stomach two # 1s, but honestly, I’d just rather the team roll with who they can get at # 4, or go get Aaron Rodgers and give a 2nd rounder to GB to get him (I don’t see GB getting a number 1),& draft a BPA stud at number 4 this year and still have your # 1 next year. 

[BeanDiasucci]

14 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Smonroe]

How did he do with the Ravens in their last three playoff years?

[07dleigh]

32 minutes ago, sb41champs said:

N O spells NO NO NO NO NO!!

 

We would have to trade a "kings ransom" in draft picks or players just to get Lamar Jackson in Colts blue!!

 

THEN - we would have to PAY Lamar Jackson a "kings ransom" in salary to PLAY in Colts blue!!

 

I believe THAT would set our franchise back significantly more - in both the short and long term - than drafting a rookie - even if he has to "learn on the job".

 

Lamar Jackson has already turned down one contract offer - and - has his eyes firmly set on getting what DeShaun Watson got from the Cleveland Browns.

 

There is a REASON that no other teams have attempted to sign Lamar Jackson in the first wave of free agency.  He's already "overplayed" his hand - and - may have to take less money than he's already turned down.

 

 

 

Yeah.. let's continue to penny pinch. It's gotten us very far the past few years.

 

I agree that for this to happen he needs to come to the realization that owners aren't budging and come down to earth a little, I should've stated that. I'm assuming that he'll be forced to do that.

[Hoose]

3 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

A lot of noise on Sirius CM Moving the Chains, saying Colts should offer a 3 year fully guaranteed contract with the franchise tag thereafter off the table. 
 

As much as Lamar may indeed be, as a player, the “no brainer” alternative to what’s available in this draft, no way I want the team to give up TWO number 1s, this year being a premium pick, for a guy that might be gone in after 3 years.  
 

If he’s locked up for 5 years or more, ok, then maybe I can stomach two # 1s, but honestly, I’d just rather the team roll with who they can get at # 4, or go get Aaron Rodgers and give a 2nd rounder to GB to get him (I don’t see GB getting a number 1),& draft a BPA stud at number 4 this year and still have your # 1 next year. 

I don’t think Aaron Rogers wants to go anywhere where he can’t be in the run for a SB. With the Jets, he has a shot. With the Colts, probably not. 

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, 07dleigh said:

 

Yeah.. let's continue to penny pinch. It's gotten us very far the past few years.

 

I agree that for this to happen he needs to come to the realization that owners aren't budging and come down to earth a little, I should've stated that. I'm assuming that he'll be forced to do that.

What’s one of, if not the most important, ability that a player needs to have?

[SOMDColtsfan]

You fail to mention the Colts were down to what, 4th string DB's in second half of that game? Lamar can't hold up running the ball as much as he used to. Also take away the middle of the field, where he burned us, and he is exposed. Pass

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, sb41champs said:

N O spells NO NO NO NO NO!!

 

We would have to trade a "kings ransom" in draft picks or players just to get Lamar Jackson in Colts blue!!

 

THEN - we would have to PAY Lamar Jackson a "kings ransom" in salary to PLAY in Colts blue!!

 

I believe THAT would set our franchise back significantly more - in both the short and long term - than drafting a rookie - even if he has to "learn on the job".

 

Lamar Jackson has already turned down one contract offer - and - has his eyes firmly set on getting what DeShaun Watson got from the Cleveland Browns.

 

There is a REASON that no other teams have attempted to sign Lamar Jackson in the first wave of free agency.  He's already "overplayed" his hand - and - may have to take less money than he's already turned down.

 

 

It’s too early to expect an offer this soon.  Lots of moving parts and he has no agent which automatically slows things down.  A new rookie could fail which actually has a better than a 50 50 chance of happening especially picking the 3rd or 4th quarterback off the board.   So I would think this could take some time to happen.  Not saying it will but it should.  It’s a no brainer.  LaMar is far superior to any of these rookie quarterbacks.  Sure you have to pay him.  Quarterbacks get paid all the time. If the plan is to win a Super Bowl he is by far the one quarterback available that has the best chance of accomplishing that.  A 26 year old former MVP who has taken his team to four playoff appearances with no running game besides himself and a very average, being nice, receiving corps is absolutely better than any of those rookies.  So he’s had a few injuries.  He’s 26 not 36.  Not to worry.  He could have Taylor next to him now.  Shane will know how to utilize him.  This is a really a no brainer.  

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I don’t think Aaron Rogers wants to go anywhere where he can’t be in the run for a SB. With the Jets, he has a shot. With the Colts, probably not. 

 

Oh yeah, they just signed Mecole Hardman.

 

Between Lazard, Elijah Moore, Garrett Wilson and Mecole Hardman, Rodgers does NOT have any shortage of weapons to throw to. Jets might win that division, IMO.  I am not even mentioning Denzel Mims and Corey Davis, might be a good time to trade for Mims with a low draft pick.

 

So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots go after Lamar Jackson if Rodgers and Allen are in their division, just a hunch.