CJ Stroud, QB, Ohio State

[SOMDColtsfan]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Yes, I just said in the other thread - the throwing session was supposed to be a showcase for Richardson's armstrength(and i has been) but it was Stroud that stole the show. Exceptionally smooth thrower of the ball with great accuracy and ball placement. 

And Stroud has a calmness about him you just can't teach

[NFLfan]

19 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I just eel that the  network is trying to sell these guys and I am not  getting tickled.

 

Lol. Your posting history will show that you are not inclined to see players in any positive way. So, I am not surprised you are not "tickled". 

 

I liked what I saw form Stroud.

 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Maybe.   But I think that’s only true if the Colts like all 4 of the QBs and not just 1 or 2.    And unfortunately that’s rarely the case.   Teams tend to fall in live with their top choice and like the other choices mess and less.   And maybe even not like some of the choices.   
 

So if the Colts are sitting at 4, and the two QBs they like have been taken, will they really take a BPA like a defensive lineman? I hope so, but I doubt it.  

 

I think all four of the QBs have their positive attitudes. Steichen seems like the kind of head coach who would maximize the strengths of whatever QB is starting for the team.

 

I don't believe they should trade up for a QB.

 

Which QB is highest on your list (who would you like to be the next Colts QB of the future)?

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I think all four of the QBs have their positive attitudes. Steichen seems like the kind of head coach who would maximize the strengths of whatever QB is starting for the team.

 

I don't believe they should trade up for a QB.

 

Which QB is highest on your list (who would you like to be the next Colts QB of the future)?

Highest on my list?    I’d say Stroud.  I think he’s the most safe.   
 

Young is the most talented, especially the intangibles.   But his size scares me to death.   
 

Levis is also very talented, but needs more polishing from the coaches.   
 

Richardson is ridiculously talented.  But with all the work he needs I can see this being a 2-3 year project.  Not sure the franchise can handle that right now?  
 

Im prepared to be disappointed.  I got the HC I preferred, so I hope Steichen works his magic with whoever the team picks.  I think Steichen’s opinion will be key.   I think Ballard tries to give his HC the players he wants if it’s possible. 
 

Who is your preferred QB? 

[NFLfan]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Highest on my list?    I’d say Stroud.  I think he’s the most safe.   
 

Young is the most talented, especially the intangibles.   But his size scares me to death.   
 

Levis is also very talented, but needs more polishing from the coaches.   
 

Richardson is ridiculously talented.  But with all the work he needs I can see this being a 2-3 year project.  Not sure the franchise can handle that right now?  
 

Im prepared to be disappointed.  I got the HC I preferred, so I hope Steichen works his magic with whoever the team picks.  I think Steichen’s opinion will be key.   I think Ballard tries to give his HC the players he wants if it’s possible. 
 

Who is your preferred QB? 

 

Well, I'm a Vikings fan and unfortunately we have no chance of getting one of the top four.

 

I wanted to watch the QBs and WRs at the Combine today. I was impressed with what I saw from Stroud today.  I like Young and Stroud. I like QBs with the intangible traits that Young seems to have.

 

I would love the Vikings to draft a QB in the mid rounds. Will there be a QB available in the mid rounds who has football intelligence like Young and throws accurately like Stroud?  Maybe Hooker? 

[Zoltan]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Highest on my list?    I’d say Stroud.  I think he’s the most safe.   
 

Young is the most talented, especially the intangibles.   But his size scares me to death.   
 

Levis is also very talented, but needs more polishing from the coaches.   
 

Richardson is ridiculously talented.  But with all the work he needs I can see this being a 2-3 year project.  Not sure the franchise can handle that right now?  
 

Im prepared to be disappointed.  I got the HC I preferred, so I hope Steichen works his magic with whoever the team picks.  I think Steichen’s opinion will be key.   I think Ballard tries to give his HC the players he wants if it’s possible. 
 

Who is your preferred QB? 

 

Stroud is my favorite as well. Same with Young, we have seen Murray struggle with injury and taking hits as his play always gets worse as the season goes on. Young has had an elite line his entire college career and in the NFL you are gonna take some hits. I pretty much have the exact same opinions on the 4 QBs although I just got a feeling Levis has the biggest bust possibility. 

 

As for who we will get I also agree Ballard's history shows that he goes after the QB his coach wants, so hopefully Steichen falls in love with Strouds accuracy to the point they move up for him. As I am the thought you get in front and get who you want instead of picking at the scraps leftover.

[Moosejawcolt]

Funny I was listeing to Riddick and he said if a trade ws made by thr Bears , he could see Fields going to the Pmthers. He really respected Reich and said he would excel  under his  coaching lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CR91]

Young, Stroud, or bust

[Nancy]

Stroud was impressive today and Levis. TE Michael Mayer (ND) was very good too.  Wish we could afford both QB & TE!

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, stitches said:

That's just the way he's built. He's lanky and not stocky. It's just one more way in which he's pretty similar to Jared Goff.

But he's only 6'3".   A true 6'3".

 

Stroud's size is not that great.  6'3" 214 is like Mac Jones albeit taller by less than an inch.  

 

What CJ displayed at the combine is the same thing we already knew.  He throws the ball great when standing without pressure.  I'm not saying that he can't do more, but the combine didn't really do much for him.  It would have helped him if he was bigger and faster than we thought.

[DougDew]

What I read was that Levis was throwing the long ball with the least amount of arc of any of the QBs.  Makes sense, he has the strongest arm.  A lower trajectory requires more precision, so the fact that he's throwing to WRs that he hasn't worked with and doesn't know their speed is something to consider.

 

OTOH, the other QBs threw with arc, so it gives an unfamiliar WR more of a chance to adjust and run under the ball, making the pass look more accurate.

 

Chris Carter gave an interview several years ago and trajectory is what makes Aaron Rodgers so special.  The receiver can run down field and the ball never elevates above his sightline...stays within the helmet.  Whereas the QBs that have to arc it takes the ball up over the sight line and the receiver has to pick the ball up again as it descends.

 

I would think that stuff like this matters to NFL talent scouts.

[Jimdcoltsfan]

I think if you want Stroud you have to get to number 1 and with the current team I don't think I'd give up the capital to get it...I'm much more inclined to maybe get to 3 and have my choice of how ever is left after 1 and 2 go

[Solid84]

Anyone know if Stroud will work out at their Pro day?

 

I really hope they add some roll-outs and stuff to his plays, so we can see him throwing on the move.

[NFLfan]

A fan who loved Cody Pickett out of college last year believes that Stroud is similar to Geno Smith. I don't see it but who knows. (Lance Zeirlein compares Stroud to Jared Goff.)

 

Questions:

 

1) Does CJ Stroud remind anyone of Geno Smith or Jared Goff? If so, how?

2) Who do you think will be the better pro, Cody Pickett or Stroud?

 

[stitches]

49 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

A fan who loved Cody Pickett out of college last year believes that Stroud is similar to Geno Smith. I don't see it but who knows. (Lance Zeirlein compares Stroud to Jared Goff.)

 

Questions:

 

1) Does CJ Stroud remind anyone of Geno Smith or Jared Goff? If so, how?

2) Who do you think will be the better pro, Cody Pickett or Stroud?

 

I've been comparing him to Jared Goff/Mac Jones pretty much since I started watching his tape. He's NOWHERE NEAR the athlete Geno Smith was/is... There is a reason he did NOTHING from the athletic testing... 

 

Between Pickett and Stroud... I think I like Stroud better, but it's possible they end up at a relatively similar level... 

[stitches]

 

[compuls1v3]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

 

he’s wearing #12, is that a sign?!? lol

[chad72]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

What I read was that Levis was throwing the long ball with the least amount of arc of any of the QBs.  Makes sense, he has the strongest arm.  A lower trajectory requires more precision, so the fact that he's throwing to WRs that he hasn't worked with and doesn't know their speed is something to consider.

 

OTOH, the other QBs threw with arc, so it gives an unfamiliar WR more of a chance to adjust and run under the ball, making the pass look more accurate.

 

Chris Carter gave an interview several years ago and trajectory is what makes Aaron Rodgers so special.  The receiver can run down field and the ball never elevates above his sightline...stays within the helmet.  Whereas the QBs that have to arc it takes the ball up over the sight line and the receiver has to pick the ball up again as it descends.

 

I would think that stuff like this matters to NFL talent scouts.

True. Good observation about Rodgers and similarities with Levis. 
 

The other aspect is it does take a lot more work to get chemistry right with throwing it on a low track, like you insinuated with any set of new WRs. Only DaVante Adams would catch those on a rope consistently down the sidelines. Where as the deeper throws with an arc, it’s faster to gain chemistry with WRs should there be turnover on the roster with respect to skill positions.

 

However, that’s only a small portion of the throw percentage, but there are throws like post routes and other routes Rodgers led Jordy Nelson from roll outs and others with more arcs. I’ve seen Levis do it too. So it’s not a huge deal to me. 

 

 

[Superman]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:41 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Maybe.   But I think that’s only true if the Colts like all 4 of the QBs and not just 1 or 2.    And unfortunately that’s rarely the case.   Teams tend to fall in live with their top choice and like the other choices mess and less.   And maybe even not like some of the choices.   

 

Agreed. I doubt that any team feels like all four QBs are top five picks, and is content to sit back and take whichever guy happens to drop to them. A team that's determined to get a QB this year probably has their guy, and is gauging what they need to do to get him.

[Superman]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:28 AM, DougDew said:

But he's only 6'3".   A true 6'3".

 

Stroud's size is not that great.  6'3" 214 is like Mac Jones albeit taller by less than an inch.  

 

What CJ displayed at the combine is the same thing we already knew.  He throws the ball great when standing without pressure.  I'm not saying that he can't do more, but the combine didn't really do much for him.  It would have helped him if he was bigger and faster than we thought.

 

The reasons people aren't talking about Stroud's size are A) he's not an outlier like Bryce Young is, B) he's not a scrambling QB who will be putting his body on the line 15 times a game, and C) his frame isn't maxed out, he has plenty of room to add size without sacrificing a critical component of his game. If Stroud adds ten pounds, it's not changing the way he plays.

 

Also, unlike Young, Stroud probably weighed in at or near his true playing weight.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The reasons people aren't talking about Stroud's size are A) he's not an outlier like Bryce Young is, B) he's not a scrambling QB who will be putting his body on the line 15 times a game, and C) his frame isn't maxed out, he has plenty of room to add size without sacrificing a critical component of his game. If Stroud adds ten pounds, it's not changing the way he plays.

 

Also, unlike Young, Stroud probably weighed in at or near his true playing weight.

If we draft Stroud I would be happy. I think the guy could be great, good at worse. I like Young a Tad better but I am not greedy after the last 2 years we went through.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The reasons people aren't talking about Stroud's size are A) he's not an outlier like Bryce Young is, B) he's not a scrambling QB who will be putting his body on the line 15 times a game, and C) his frame isn't maxed out, he has plenty of room to add size without sacrificing a critical component of his game. If Stroud adds ten pounds, it's not changing the way he plays.

 

Also, unlike Young, Stroud probably weighed in at or near his true playing weight.

Some at the Combine said he looked skinny.  I hope he has the bone structure to add more.   For QBs that are more pocket passers, 6'3" is the minimum for me.   Mac Jones is only 6'2", and that made him a pass for me.

 

He threw 59mph, and IMO, a strong arm can make up for a lack of height.  Can still zip it over or around the defenders when he gets a window.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Some at the Combine said he looked skinny.  I hope he has the bone structure to add more.   For QBs that are more pocket passers, 6'3" is the minimum for me.   Mac Jones is only 6'2", and that made him a pass for me.

I never thought Mac Jones would be better than average and so far he has been average 2 years in but HT wasn't why. To say a QB won't be any good because they are short is ridiculous. Drew Brees is a top 10 QB of all-time, he says hold my beer 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never thought Mac Jones would be better than average and so far he has been average 2 years in but HT wasn't why. To say a QB won't be any good because they are short is ridiculous. Drew Brees is a top 10 QB of all-time, he says hold my beer 

 

Yep, Mahomes is 6'2", DeShaun Watson is 6'2", Jimmy G is 6'2" and pretty much all of them have shown they can pass from the pocket far more than scrambling. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

Yep, Mahomes is 6'2", DeShaun Watson is 6'2", Jimmy G is 6'2" and pretty much all of them have shown they can pass from the pocket far more than scrambling. 

Drew Brees is 6'0 and Russ is 5'11, both have had Hall of Fame career's. Russ is a top 25 QB of all-time IMO, Brees is top 10. Tarkenton was 5'10 and played when QB's got battered and he is a top 25 QB of all-time as well and in the Hall.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Some at the Combine said he looked skinny.  I hope he has the bone structure to add more.   For QBs that are more pocket passers, 6'3" is the minimum for me.   Mac Jones is only 6'2", and that made him a pass for me.

 

He threw 59mph, and IMO, a strong arm can make up for a lack of height.  Can still zip it over or around the defenders when he gets a window.

 

His height isn't a concern for me, I think 6'3" is a solid check mark.

 

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never thought Mac Jones would be better than average and so far he has been average 2 years in but HT wasn't why. To say a QB won't be any good because they are short is ridiculous. Drew Brees is a top 10 QB of all-time, he says hold my beer 

 

Drew Brees is an outlier. The overwhelming majority of shorter QBs struggle from the pocket, especially guys like Brees who weren't a threat to run. Brees having a HOF career is like buying a winning lottery ticket. It's certainly not something to be counted on.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I never thought Mac Jones would be better than average and so far he has been average 2 years in but HT wasn't why. To say a QB won't be any good because they are short is ridiculous. Drew Brees is a top 10 QB of all-time, he says hold my beer 

How do you get me saying that a QB won't be any good because of height?  Its not a matter of assessing whether of not they will be good.  Its a matter of how enthusiastic I am to draft him.

 

Jones has physical limitations, and I'm not talking about jumping ability.  Height and arm talent issues, not made up for with the ability to get out of the pocket and create throwing lanes and zip it.

 

Brees was an outlier when he was drafted in the SECOND round.  15 years later, his career is still an outlier.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Superman said:

 

His height isn't a concern for me, I think 6'3" is a solid check mark.

 

 

Drew Brees is an outlier. The overwhelming majority of shorter QBs struggle from the pocket, especially guys like Brees who weren't a threat to run. Brees having a HOF career is like buying a winning lottery ticket. It's certainly not something to be counted on.

How about Russell Wilson and Fran Tarkenton? Joe Montana was only 6'2.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Drew Brees is 6'0 and Russ is 5'11, both have had Hall of Fame career's. Russ is a top 25 QB of all-time IMO, Brees is top 10. Tarkenton was 5'10 and played when QB's got battered and he is a top 25 QB of all-time as well and in the Hall.

 

Doug loves to play contrarian, that is just who he is. 

 

QB success is a factor of so many things, from coaching to offensive stability, to supporting cast. That is why Bryce Young said "I have been this height for a long time, am comfortable with it and can only control what I can control". He can't control what others think of him, just go out and play ball and be successful in his own way. It is just folks are hung up on stereotypes, and that includes scouts and GMs as well, IMO. Not to mention forum armchair GMs.  I like to see things with an open mind and look at their body of work. This won't be the first time Bryce Young sees a 6'4" or 6'5" DL bearing on him or works the passing lanes with his own 6'3"/6'4"/6'5" OL protecting him. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

How do you get me saying that a QB won't be any good because of height?  Its not a matter of assessing whether of not they will be good.  Its a matter of how enthusiastic I am to draft him.

 

Jones has physical limitations, and I'm not talking about jumping ability.  Height and arm talent issues, not made up for with the ability to get out of the pocket and create throwing lanes and zip it.

 

Brees was an outlier when he was drafted in the SECOND round.  15 years later, his career is still an outlier.

Your words, you said Mac Jones is only 6'2 so to me that was a pass  . You type crap and don't even remember what you say 2 minutes later.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

His height isn't a concern for me, I think 6'3" is a solid check mark.

6'3" 214 is exactly the same size as Sam Darnold.  Whenever I see Darnold on the field, he looks like a smallish QB.  JMO.

[Solid84]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Some at the Combine said he looked skinny.  I hope he has the bone structure to add more.   For QBs that are more pocket passers, 6'3" is the minimum for me.   Mac Jones is only 6'2", and that made him a pass for me.

 

He threw 59mph, and IMO, a strong arm can make up for a lack of height.  Can still zip it over or around the defenders when he gets a window.

After watching the combine I’m not sure how much we can really take from those velocity drills. DTR certainly didn’t strike me as a guy throwing 62 mph. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

6'3" 214 is exactly the same size as Sam Darnold.  Whenever I see Darnold on the field, he looks like a smallish QB.  JMO.

Sam Darnold sucks, I sure never thought he would be good.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

How about Russell Wilson and Fran Tarkenton? Joe Montana was only 6'2.

 

Russell Wilson is/was mobile, unlike Brees. Fran Tarkenton and Joe Montana were a lifetime ago. 

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Sam Darnold sucks, I sure never thought he would be good.

 

I do think we are finding out Adam Gase was a big part of it too. Like I said, having the right coaching staff to support the incoming QB is THE MOST important thing. Ryan Tannehill, who bolted from Gase from the Dolphins, at least showed he could do much better with the Titans, though not matching elite QBs, is still very good when healthy.

 

Mahomes going to the Bears, probably wouldn't have worked out as well as with Andy Reid. Lamar Jackson going to the Jets wouldn't have worked out as well as going to a flexible John Harbaugh and the Ravens. Same with RG3 with Mike Shanahan, and Vince Young with Jeff Fisher, bad fits eventually.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

After watching the combine I’m not sure how much we can really take from those velocity drills. DTR certainly didn’t strike me as a guy throwing 62 mph. 

 

That was very surprising to me, but watching some clips he's shown off his arm during games. 

 

It's all the rest of the QB picture where DTR comes up short. 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Doug loves to play contrarian, that is just who he is. 

 

QB success is a factor of so many things, from coaching to offensive stability, to supporting cast. That is why Bryce Young said "I have been this height for a long time, am comfortable with it and can only control what I can control". He can't control what others think of him, just go out and play ball and be successful in his own way. It is just folks are hung up on stereotypes, and that includes scouts and GMs as well, IMO. Not to mention forum armchair GMs.  I like to see things with an open mind and look at their body of work. This won't be the first time Bryce Young sees a 6'4" or 6'5" DL bearing on him or works the passing lanes with his own 6'3"/6'4"/6'5" OL protecting him. 

Short POCKET PASSERS is the metric.   Not just short.

 

Wilson, Mahomes, Tarkenton is a different conversation.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Russell Wilson is/was mobile, unlike Brees. Fran Tarkenton and Joe Montana were a lifetime ago. 

Young is mobile as well. He was even timed running the 40 in 4.5 at Alabama. He just likes being a pocket passer which is smart.

[chad72]

Just now, DougDew said:

Short POCKET PASSERS is the metric.   Not just short.

 

Wilson, Mahomes, Tarkenton is a different conversation.   

 

The issue is colleges aren't developing OL at the highest levels with more spread offenses. So, perfect protection for pocket passers isn't ideal or practical at the NFL level. Hence POCKET PASSING WITH A LITTLE MOBILITY while still passing first should be the new metric. Then, you evaluate the prospects.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I do think we are finding out Adam Gase was a big part of it too. Like I said, having the right coaching staff to support the incoming QB is THE MOST important thing. Ryan Tannehill, who bolted from Gase from the Dolphins, at least showed he could do much better with the Titans, though not matching elite QBs, is still very good when healthy.

 

Mahomes going to the Bears, probably wouldn't have worked out as well as with Andy Reid. Lamar Jackson going to the Jets wouldn't have worked out as well as going to a flexible John Harbaugh and the Ravens. Same with RG3 with Mike Shanahan, and Vince Young with Jeff Fisher, bad fits eventually.

The system a QB is in is very important so great points. That is why QB's like Peyton and Tom could play in any system and win, they were the system.