Will Levis, QB, Kentucky

[stitches]

 

 

@Superman Greg Cosell on Will Levis

 

Will Levis:

-in 2021 the offense had a more streamlined look, He played much more rhytmically in that offense, very timing based/ Looked very good in 2021. 

- has power arm, compact delivery, ball comes out well... he's physical, competitive... he's a little stiff... 

- he lost a lot of talent(lost 4 OL to the NFL, lost skill players) in the off-season and in 2022 - offense didn't have same fluid feel to it. Everything was a struggle for Levis. 

- in an ideal world he would be a 2nd round player, but we know that's not what's going to happen

- needs to be in really defined system, put him under center, have play action be a significant part of the pass game, this defines the reads. You have to generate as many primary read throws as possible. That's the goal if he has to play early. 

- you might say that with any QB(generate as many primary reads as possible), but some of them can go beyond that(he seems to imply that Levis at this point can't do it consistently enough). 

- with Levis you can call design runs, but he doesn't have very good pocket movement, a little stiff as a pocket mover(I am not sure if it is the movement or the awareness that's the problem but I agree with the sentiment - he has problems with his pocket awareness/movement and it's born out in the stats too - huge pressure to sack conversion rate - highest in the draft)

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

@Superman Greg Cosell on Will Levis

 

Will Levis:

-in 2021 the offense had a more streamlined look, He played much more rhytmically in that offense, very timing based/ Looked very good in 2021. 

- has power arm, compact delivery, ball comes out well... he's physical, competitive... he's a little stiff... 

- he lost a lot of talent(lost 4 OL to the NFL, lost skill players) in the off-season and in 2022 - offense didn't have same fluid feel to it. Everything was a struggle for Levis. 

- in an ideal world he would be a 2nd round player, but we know that's not what's going to happen

- needs to be in really defined system, put him under center, have play action be a significant part of the pass game, this defines the reads. You have to generate as many primary read throws as possible. That's the goal if he has to play early. 

- you might say that with any QB(generate as many primary reads as possible), but some of them can go beyond that(he seems to imply that Levis at this point can't do it consistently enough). 

- with Levis you can call design runs, but he doesn't have very good pocket movement, a little stiff as a pocket mover(I am not sure if it is the movement or the awareness that's the problem but I agree with the sentiment - he has problems with his pocket awareness/movement and it's born out in the stats too - huge pressure to sack conversion rate - highest in the draft)

It’s a lot of the same stuff that Jordan Love went through. A lot of turnover in one offseason. But IMO his biggest issue that I’ve heard is pocket awareness. Everything else can be fixed.

[CR91]

I'm not liking any of his answers on the podium. He sounds like a rick with a P in the beginning.

[GwinnettColt]

Interesting.  I'm watching the press conference and he said that he hasn't talked to the Colts.   He may have since then or later on in the next couple of days.

[CR91]

4 hours ago, GwinnettColt said:

Interesting.  I'm watching the press conference and he said that he hasn't talked to the Colts.   He may have since then or later on in the next couple of days.

 

Levis came off to me as immature. I didn't like how he answered questions 

[stitches]

Here are Will Levis' measurements:

Height: 6'4"

Weight: 229 lbs

Hand size: 10 5/8"

Arm length: 32" 

[NFLfan]

20 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Levis came off to me as immature. I didn't like how he answered questions 

 

His throwing looks good. He may be your next Colts QB. 

[CR91]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

His throwing looks good. He may be your next Colts QB. 

 

Throwing against air is not impressive 

[NFLfan]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Throwing against air is not impressive 

 

I get that but what else is he supposed to do there, at the Combine? He looks better than the others. (Stroud, Richardson and some others have not thrown yet.)

 

Which QBs do you like in this draft?

[Superman]

Levis arm is obvious. His technical issues are also obvious. They’re minor and subtle, but they really influence his accuracy. DJ keeps harping on how he doesn’t open up when throwing left. He also short armed a corner route to the right, just because his drop was a little sloppy. 

[CR91]

11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I get that but what else is he supposed to do there, at the Combine? He looks better than the others. (Stroud, Richardson and some others have not thrown yet.)

 

Which QBs do you like in this draft?

 

Young, Stroud, or bust. Don't care for Levis or AR

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Young, Stroud, or bust. Don't care for Levis or AR

 

I’m out on Young. I’d much rather have Levis or AR. I’d rather wait and have Hooker. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I’m out on Young. I’d much rather have Levis or AR. I’d rather wait and have Hooker. 

 

We've discussed Young, but what do you have against Stroud?

[Superman]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

We've discussed Young, but what do you have against Stroud?

 

Nothing really. He has the highest floor, IMO. I wonder if he has the athleticism to be a weapon as a scrambler, and I kind of doubt that he does. But the way he operates as a passer is really impressive. 

[DougDew]

I'm still in the Stroud/Levis camp.    Stay at 4 and take which one of the two is there.  Possibly trade up to 3 if the vibe is right.

 

I don't care for Young or AR.

 

IMO, Stroud and Levis are the safest picks, in that once you fix their pretty fixable issues, they are starting QB material.

 

I'm not sure that AR is ever fixable, and Young is just too small without a strong enough arm to compensate for it.

[NFLfan]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nothing really. He has the highest floor, IMO. I wonder if he has the athleticism to be a weapon as a scrambler, and I kind of doubt that he does. But the way he operates as a passer is really impressive. 

 

From what I'm reading, I like Young best. I think football intelligence is undervalued. He plays smart and with confidence despite not being as athletic. Can intelligence compensate for reduced athleticism and not as strong as arm as others? 

 

I am concerned that he is not throwing today. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm still in the Stroud/Levis camp.    Stay at 4 and take which one of the two is there.  Possibly trade up to 3 if the vibe is right.

 

I don't care for Young or AR.

 

IMO, Stroud and Levis are the safest picks, in that once you fix their pretty fixable issues, they are starting QB material.

 

I'm not sure that AR is ever fixable, and Young is just too small without a strong enough arm to compensate for it.

This may come as a surprise to you, but I agree with most of this.   I know we don’t agree in much.   
 

The one area I’d note is that I’ve not read anywhere that scouts are worried about Young’s arm strength.   My read is that it’s considered above average which he makes up for with uncanny anticipation.  His arm is not as strong as Stroud, or Levis or AR.  Not close to the last two.   But my reading is that it’s strong enough and not a red flag.  
 

My one worry for me is body type.   If I were the GM I doubt I’d ever sleep well at night.  I’d always be worried about Young getting hit.   The fear would never go away.   If someone as big as Luck was can be broken down, the same can happen to Bryce Young.   I love the kid, just wish he was bigger.  

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

This may come as a surprise to you, but I agree with most of this.   I know we don’t agree in much.   
 

The one area I’d note is that I’ve not read anywhere that scouts are worried about Young’s arm strength.   My read is that it’s considered above average which he makes up for with uncanny anticipation.  His arm is not as strong as Stroud, or Levis or AR.  Not close to the last two.   But my reading is that it’s strong enough and not a red flag.  
 

My one worry for me is body type.   If I were the GM I doubt I’d ever sleep well at night.  I’d always be worried about Young getting hit.   The fear would never go away.   If someone as big as Luck was can be broken down, the same can happen to Bryce Young.   I love the kid, just wish he was bigger.  

 

Not saying Young can't get hurt, but Andrew while did take some very bad hits he also never knew when to quit on a play and took unnecessary hits.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

This may come as a surprise to you, but I agree with most of this.   I know we don’t agree in much.   
 

The one area I’d note is that I’ve not read anywhere that scouts are worried about Young’s arm strength.   My read is that it’s considered above average which he makes up for with uncanny anticipation.  His arm is not as strong as Stroud, or Levis or AR.  Not close to the last two.   But my reading is that it’s strong enough and not a red flag.  
 

My one worry for me is body type.   If I were the GM I doubt I’d ever sleep well at night.  I’d always be worried about Young getting hit.   The fear would never go away.   If someone as big as Luck was can be broken down, the same can happen to Bryce Young.   I love the kid, just wish he was bigger.  

As far as arm, if he is going to make plays out of structure, I think a zippier pass works better than not.   Not = interceptions in the NFL.   Anticipation I think works best in structure, where you know where the receiver is going. 

 

Just my take on it.

 

I think if he is small, something physical has to make up for it, not just Chad Pennington type of mental things.

 

Bennett threw Eason like 59 mph and ran a 4.67 forty.  I like those numbers better for a small QB.

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I’m out on Young. I’d much rather have Levis or AR. I’d rather wait and have Hooker. 

I confess I’m surprised by this post.  Based on your write-ups I wasn’t expecting this post.   Always glad when I’m wrong like this!    

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Not saying Young can't get hurt, but Andrew while did take some very bad hits he also never knew when to quit on a play and took unnecessary hits.

Yes,  I know Luck was often his own worst enemy.   Well aware.   But not all of his injuries were his own fault.   I think that narrative has been somewhat over-blown. 

But when you’re the most sacked, most hit quarterback as Luck was for how many years.   There were plenty of other factors in play.  

[CR91]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes,  I know Luck was often his own worst enemy.   Well aware.   But not all of his injuries were his own fault.   I think that narrative has been somewhat over-blown. 

But when you’re the most sacked, most hit quarterback as Luck was for how many years.   There were plenty of other factors in play.  

 

Of course and knowing the team was basically you, Andrew went the extra mile. Not the same for Bryce or any other QB we're drafting. Andrew's team was basically brand new. There are pieces here to help the rook so he doesn't think it's all on him.

[chad72]

Levis talked about Joe Burrow and his movement in the pocket. It’s not necessarily outside the pocket but within, such an underrated aspect of QB play.

 

Peyton had happy feet inside the pocket post snap far more than Brady whose movement inside the pocket was better, IMO. That’s a big part of giving yourself another chance to throw a guy open. 
 

Levis understands that and I’m sure the Colts HC can win with all the Top 4 QBs but I keep coming back to traits, work ethic that will allow someone to reach their ceiling.

 

Based on that, Ballard probably leans towards AR or Levis if he feels Stroud and Young aren’t that much better. Regardless, it’s our QB coaching that will make or break the QB position as all these guys have good qualities to build upon. I think we’ve seen more of the Young and Stroud ceiling than with AR or Levis.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Of course and knowing the team was basically you, Andrew went the extra mile. Not the same for Bryce or any other QB we're drafting. Andrew's team was basically brand new. There are pieces here to help the rook so he doesn't think it's all on him.

Let’s hope so.   
 

As you may know, I’m in the camp where I’d like the rookie QB — whoever it is — has to watch for roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of the season.    
 

But I believe I’m not going to get my wish.  Maybe with Richardson?   I believe Steichen and Ballard will have the rookie start from week one.   I do not expect to get my wish.   I just hope they’re right and I’m wrong.   

[CR91]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Let’s hope so.   
 

As you may know, I’m in the camp where I’d like the rookie QB — whoever it is — has to watch for roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of the season.    
 

But I believe I’m not going to get my wish.  Maybe with Richardson?   I believe Steichen and Ballard will have the rookie start from week one.   I do not expect to get my wish.   I just hope they’re right and I’m wrong.   

 

Only way that happens is if we sign Meinshaw. The colts are not gonna keep Ryan and Foles imo

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Only way that happens is if we sign Meinshaw. The colts are not gonna keep Ryan and Foles imo

I don’t think the Colts are keeping either Ryan or Foles.    But I don’t understand the comment about Minshew?   There are other vet QBs who can do the same thing.  

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t think the Colts are keeping either Ryan or Foles.    But I don’t understand the comment about Minshew?   There are other vet QBs who can do the same thing.  

 

He was with the eagles last year so he'd know the offense. Just connecting dots.

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

He was with the eagles last year so he'd know the offense. Just connecting dots.

I understand.   I like Minshew, always have.   I’m just saying if Minshew decides not come to Indy, there are other options that can basically do the same.   
 

Michael Pittman Jr has already talked to Steichen and says there’s very little difference in the terminology between the new offense and Frank’s offense.  So there shouldn’t be a problem.    The backup can still help the rookie, whoever they are.  

[Drew2975]

Forgive me if it has been mentioned already but didn't Will Levis suffer a turf toe injury against Ole Miss in October?

 

Turf toe is one of those painful lingering issues.

 

It made sense to me when I was watching his film. He wasn't stepping into his throws. He was obviously only using his upper body on the majority of throws this year.

 

Makes his throwing power even more impressive IMHO.

 

Not saying I want to draft him or not. It's just something I noticed.

[tvturner]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:58 PM, CR91 said:

 

Levis came off to me as immature. I didn't like how he answered questions 

Confidence = immaturity?

 

Yeah okay

[CR91]

28 minutes ago, tvturner said:

Confidence = immaturity?

 

Yeah okay

 

That was not confidence. Learn the difference 

[twfish]

12 hours ago, Drew2975 said:

Forgive me if it has been mentioned already but didn't Will Levis suffer a turf toe injury against Ole Miss in October?

 

Turf toe is one of those painful lingering issues.

 

It made sense to me when I was watching his film. He wasn't stepping into his throws. He was obviously only using his upper body on the majority of throws this year.

 

Makes his throwing power even more impressive IMHO.

 

Not saying I want to draft him or not. It's just something I noticed.

I feel like it’s often overlooked and almost scoffed out when thinking about a turf toe. I know an old player though who had turf toe and elected to have his toe amputated so he could continue to play without missing time and to avoid the pain.

[Drew2975]

4 hours ago, twfish said:

I feel like it’s often overlooked and almost scoffed out when thinking about a turf toe. I know an old player though who had turf toe and elected to have his toe amputated so he could continue to play without missing time and to avoid the pain.

 

Exactly!  I am sure he played all season with this injury after the Ole Miss game. The turf toe was on his left (strong) foot. As a right handed quarterback you start your throw on your back right foot and end your throw on your left forward foot.

 

If you go back and watch film post Ole Miss you will see how much he is throwing off his back foot. 

 

That is crazy he getting the zing/power he does off his backfoot!!!

 

I don't think I've seen that kind of arm strength in a long while.

 

Levis is going to surprise a lot of people if he can mentally adjust to the NFL game.

 

Very very rare arm strength. 

[chad72]

5 hours ago, twfish said:

I feel like it’s often overlooked and almost scoffed out when thinking about a turf toe. I know an old player though who had turf toe and elected to have his toe amputated so he could continue to play without missing time and to avoid the pain.

Mahomes played with that injury in 2020 and after losing his starting tackles, was running like a chicken with his head cut off vs Bucs in the SB loss  

[Drew2975]

18 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Mahomes played with that injury in 2020 and after losing his starting tackles, was running like a chicken with his head cut off vs Bucs in the SB loss  

Watch Levis film and see how often he throws off his backfoot and doesn't follow through on his throws..

[chad72]

33 minutes ago, Drew2975 said:

Watch Levis film and see how often he throws off his backfoot and doesn't follow through on his throws..

The key word is “hero ball”. Humbling yourself to not take sacks and throwing it away and not turning it over can mitigate the loss of offensive talent and OL deficiencies around you.
 

There were lots of instances where I felt he did play hero ball because a) either his confidence in his arm was misplaced to the point of ignoring opponents strengths or b) he felt the pressure to make a play. 
 

But these can be coached out. Peyton, before Dungy showed up, felt he had to do more and Dungy told him that a punt was OK and to trust his teammates.

 

The evaluators however need to believe that, IMO. On the flip side, if AR played another year as a starter, we’d be nitpicking more about his game too. Tough job, the mental evaluation piece for the QB draft pick.  

 

Young stands out on the mentally ready prospect aspect and Stroud also with a good floor but the others, it’s all up to the belief they can be coached up to their ceiling.

[twfish]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

Mahomes played with that injury in 2020 and after losing his starting tackles, was running like a chicken with his head cut off vs Bucs in the SB loss  

Mahomes is unreal in every aspect. You won’t catch me comparing any one to him ever. There’s also not a single other QB on a NFL roster right now or any draft prospect that could have done what he did in the AFC championship game or the superbowl with a high ankle sprain. IMHO we are watching one of the best ever to play QB in Patrick Mahomes.

[twfish]

https://fb.watch/j4QTVEYqHQ/?mibextid=9ZNf4U

 

heres his throws from the combine

[Superman]

20 hours ago, chad72 said:

There were lots of instances where I felt he did play hero ball because a) either his confidence in his arm was misplaced to the point of ignoring opponents strengths or b) he felt the pressure to make a play. 
 

But these can be coached out. Peyton, before Dungy showed up, felt he had to do more and Dungy told him that a punt was OK and to trust his teammates.

 

There's a ton of hero ball in his tape. And while it's true that some players grow out of it, that's not a given. More often than not, players don't fix their flaws.

 

Between the hero ball and the way his mechanics can break down, he has some fundamental issues. I really like Levis, he's very toolsy and I think he has an "it" factor to him, but I also think some fans get overly dismissive of some of these issues. Josh Allen is the poster boy for QB development, and when you watch him closely you'll still see some of his fundamental issues show up every game -- especially hero ball. 

[chad72]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's a ton of hero ball in his tape. And while it's true that some players grow out of it, that's not a given. More often than not, players don't fix their flaws.

 

Between the hero ball and the way his mechanics can break down, he has some fundamental issues. I really like Levis, he's very toolsy and I think he has an "it" factor to him, but I also think some fans get overly dismissive of some of these issues. Josh Allen is the poster boy for QB development, and when you watch him closely you'll still see some of his fundamental issues show up every game -- especially hero ball. 

 

I agree. Josh Allen was almost regressing to his mean of hero ball taking a step back from 2021 in 2022, IMO.