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33 minutes ago, Rolltide_gocolts said:

Next year when we have a deadly TE combo in Woods & olgetree… they will be a headache Mark my words… especially with a new young qb that can move around and create on the fly (Bryce or CJ)

I fully expect Woods to be a beast with a good young QB to throw to him. Not sure yet about Ogletree. 

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1 hour ago, Rolltide_gocolts said:

Next year when we have a deadly TE combo in Woods & olgetree… they will be a headache Mark my words… especially with a new young qb that can move around and create on the fly (Bryce or CJ)

With Olgetree having to work his way back from injury I don’t know that he will be as large of a factor as you think. I fully expect , Granson to get more snaps.

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6 hours ago, Rolltide_gocolts said:

Next year when we have a deadly TE combo in Woods & olgetree… they will be a headache Mark my words… especially with a new young qb that can move around and create on the fly (Bryce or CJ)

I’ll be surprised but it would be a pleasant surprise.  Woods has a role but he’s pretty clunky out there rounding off routes.

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29 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Speaking of TEs, I can recall when a few said Jack Doyal was paid too much and shouldn't be resigned. 

Then when he retired it's like damn, we need him back. :thmup:

Our fan base has this perception that once it’s time to pay someone, they aren’t worth keeping and should be let go. Doyle did A LOT for this team in terms of blocking and being a security blanket. 

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2 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Our fan base has this perception that once it’s time to pay someone, they aren’t worth keeping and should be let go. Doyle did A LOT for this team in terms of blocking and being a security blanket. 

Security blanket is a very good description.  He had good hands and caught a bunch of 1st downs. 

Hopefully this team can get back in the groove using the TE position.  

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5 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

With Olgetree having to work his way back from injury I don’t know that he will be as large of a factor as you think. I fully expect , Granson to get more snaps.

 

 Hopefully Reich's experiment Granson will play elsewhere.

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20 minutes ago, Matabix said:

Woods and Ogletree are TE 2s at best. Very good though, but until they block better we are still searching for TE 1.

I agree.  With Woods size and strength it's not understandable to me why he can't block? Lack of coaching? Lack of effort?

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree.  With Woods size and strength it's not understandable to me why he can't block? Lack of coaching? Lack of effort?

I'd assume it's lack of experience.  He was recruited as a college QB.

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37 minutes ago, Matabix said:

Woods and Ogletree are TE 2s at best. Very good though, but until they block better we are still searching for TE 1.

Woods is te 1 when it comes to receiving. Just got to pass him the ball

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45 minutes ago, IndyEric07 said:

I still wouldnt mind if they drafted Baby Gronk! Doubt itll happen with the qb situation, but maybe Ballard can trade up for another 1st round pick!:dunno:

 

You mean Michael Mayer, yes, he reminds me of Gronk!! After Gronk, TEs briefly went up in value with Noah Fant, T J Hockenson etc. being drafted in Round 1. Then, exclusively receiving TEs like Kmet went top of round 2 and sometimes fell like Freiermuth to end of Round 2. Anything can happen. If I had to predict, Mayer will go to a good team in the middle or top of Round 1, IMO and I am thinking he goes to Seahawks or the Texans or the Lions with their second first rounder.

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1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I’ll be surprised but it would be a pleasant surprise.  Woods has a role but he’s pretty clunky out there rounding off routes.

Exactly.  The biggest factor in receivers getting open is the ability to make a cut without losing speed.   

 

While Woods has a great RAS, he's still 6'7" and that high center of gravity just doesn't change direction as well as a more normal sized human.   Same issue with MAC, who is also pretty heavy as well as tall. 

 

Great for contested catches.  Not so much for getting separation like George Kittle or Travis Kelce, which is the kind of TE people get more excited about.

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33 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree.  With Woods size and strength it's not understandable to me why he can't block? Lack of coaching? Lack of effort?

He's going to be a nightmare for defenses. He's one along with Cross that excites me about this last rookie class.

19 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Woods is te 1 when it comes to receiving. Just got to pass him the ball

I agree but we need him to block better. 

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31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I'd assume it's lack of experience.  He was recruited as a college QB.

 

But didn't he spend 3 years as mostly a blocking TE at Ok State?

 

It wasn't until he was a grad student and transferred to UVA that he became a pass catcher.

 

But he's also really tall, so that might make it more difficult.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Matabix said:

Woods and Ogletree are TE 2s at best. Very good though, but until they block better we are still searching for TE 1.

 

Most of the top TEs in the league don't block anyway they are playmakers used to stretch the field also but if you're an old school ground and pound type team then your TE has to be able to block. I say go all the way and get a FB in the backfield too. The NFL is getting more progressive with wide open offenses while the Colts have been stuck in a yesteryear mentality but I have a feeling that will all change soon with the new coaching hire UNLESS it's Saturday... 

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10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Exactly.  The biggest factor in receivers getting open is the ability to make a cut without losing speed.   

 

While Woods has a great RAS, he's still 6'7" and that high center of gravity just doesn't change direction as well as a more normal sized human.   Same issue with MAC, who is also pretty heavy as well as tall. 

 

Great for contested catches.  Not so much for getting separation like George Kittle or Travis Kelce, which is the kind of TE people get more excited about.

Yep.   We have two of the same player I'm afraid.  Either has a role, but why do we need both?   Guys like Kittle and Kelce are exceptional so I don't expect that kind of guy, but we need a couple players that can cut off a route.  We have all big guys except PC who is not a sharp route runner.  


This is one of the major reasons I want Ballard gone.  Some of us thought this was an issue from the beginning.  I don't see the logic of this kind of roster in 2023.  Ballard seems to be in love with everything but agility and the best receivers these days have exceptional agility. 

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8 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

But didn't he spend 3 years as mostly a blocking TE at Ok State?

 

It wasn't until he was a grad student and transferred to UVA that he became a pass catcher.

 

But he's also really tall, so that might make it more difficult.

 

 

 

What I saw on his stats was he was a very sparingly used WR until is senior year. He had 31 total catches for VA his first 3 years an according to pro football reference he was listed as WR.  

 

He had 44 catches his senior year and is listed as TE.

 

So it's likely that he never did anything but stalk block before his Senior year.  That's not at all the same thing as blocking from the TE postion.  My guess is that's what explains his sparing use .

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11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Exactly.  The biggest factor in receivers getting open is the ability to make a cut without losing speed.   

 

While Woods has a great RAS, he's still 6'7" and that high center of gravity just doesn't change direction as well as a more normal sized human.   Same issue with MAC, who is also pretty heavy as well as tall. 

 

Great for contested catches.  Not so much for getting separation like George Kittle or Travis Kelce, which is the kind of TE people get more excited about.

 

His 3-cone was 6.95, which is pretty incredible for that size. But I need to see some tape on him being that quick out on the field.

 

The two things that could hold him back are blocking (won't be on the field if he can't block) and hands. He can catch, but it just looks a bit shaky at times.

 

I think he's definitely capable of being a top 11-20 TE though.

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11 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

But didn't he spend 3 years as mostly a blocking TE at Ok State?

 

It wasn't until he was a grad student and transferred to UVA that he became a pass catcher.

 

But he's also really tall, so that might make it more difficult.

 

 

And I looked into it more.  He was a 6'5" 215 lb hs QB.  So he was big but not the monstrous human he is today.  He's grown close to 3 inches and 40lbs since then.  SO he's probably still trying to figure out how his body works. 

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4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

This is one of the major reasons I want Ballard gone.  Some of us thought this was an issue from the beginning.  I don't see the logic of this kind of roster in 2023.  Ballard seems to be in love with everything but agility and the best receivers these days have exceptional agility. 

So Ballard hasn't drafted or traded for any defensive players that have agility? Respectfully I think you just look for every opportunity to rag on Ballard. That's your conscious choice I'm afraid. 

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

What I saw on his stats was he was a very sparingly used WR until is senior year. He had 31 total catches for VA his first 3 years an according to pro football reference he was listed as WR.  

 

He had 44 catches his senior year and is listed as TE.

 

Not sure why it says WR. He was a QB recruit who moved to TE during his first season. Here is a write from PFN:

 

Quote

One of those is Virginia TE Woods. Following his usage primarily as a blocking tight end for Oklahoma State, his transfer to the Cavaliers has opened up his skill set as a pass-catching option for an offense. As he aces the process with incredible all-star and testing performances, NFL teams are going back to his tape to diagnose what his potential could be.

 

I know his athleticism and size is the USP, but I recall hearing that he was already a good blocker. In hindsight, that was way premature. The NFL is very different for a TE.

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4 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

His 3-cone was 6.95, which is pretty incredible for that size. But I need to see some tape on him being that quick out on the field.

 

The two things that could hold him back are blocking (won't be on the field if he can't block) and hands. He can catch, but it just looks a bit shaky at times.

 

I think he's definitely capable of being a top 11-20 TE though.

Yeah I think he has a role.  But he might be a bit of a tweener if he can't improve his blocking.  He's probably too big to be sharp enough to be that slot type of TE hybrid guy  like Kelce often is, and lacks the blocking skills of a true tight end. 

 

He's going to be a useful player regardless, but I am not confident he's going to be a star type of guy.  We will see. If he learn to push guys around at TE he could develop into a big time player, but I don't assume that.

 

Maybe he's not nasty enough?  I would get him in combat sport training if I were the Colts.  Hire Gable Steveson to push him around on the mat and teach him how to use that body.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So Ballard hasn't drafted or traded for any defensive players that have agility? Respectfully I think you just look for every opportunity to rag on Ballard. That's your conscious choice I'm afraid. 

Jesus Crazy.  Were we discussing defensive players?  No I'm talking about offense. 

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12 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

Yeah, I don't agree when I see tight end listed as a position of need.

I also question why blocking should be a concern. Those guys are huge. We don't have anyone who can coach these guys into being good blockers?

Why do you say that?

TE is one position I am looking forward to seeing next year.  Add Ogletree with Woods and Cox, it is pretty solid.   I'd like to see Granson gone but he will be in the mix as well.

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1 hour ago, Matabix said:

Woods and Ogletree are TE 2s at best. Very good though, but until they block better we are still searching for TE 1.

 

  We need a hammer like Doyle who can trap, block in-line, and go in motion and pound into the interior line to create real space. Woods height weight distribution would make it difficult to get down for leverage. Ogeltree should become decent all-around. But 6'4 to 5 and 265 sounds better.

 And i have seen enough of Mo and his mediocrity. lol

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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Jesus Crazy.  Were we discussing defensive players?  No I'm talking about offense. 

You generate the narrative that Ballard hasn't done anything correctly. 

Your words-Ballard seems to be in love with everything but agility.  Are you serious? Think about that comment for a second. We have a group of receivers and running backs that are exceptional athletes or they wouldn't be on any NFL roster. 

 

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Speaking of TEs, I can recall when a few said Jack Doyal was paid too much and shouldn't be resigned. 

Then when he retired it's like damn, we need him back. :thmup:

Yup and the same thing with AC. 

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Just now, VikingsFanInChennai said:

How about signing Irv Smith Jr (Vikings), i guess he'd be a free agent. He's a bit injury prone and thus might not be a costly signing. He should give good pass catching option, along with Woods. 

Right now our TE room is pretty full so I'm not sure where Ballards head is at? :dunno:

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26 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yeah I think he has a role.  But he might be a bit of a tweener if he can't improve his blocking.  He's probably too big to be sharp enough to be that slot type of TE hybrid guy  like Kelce often is, and lacks the blocking skills of a true tight end. 

 

He's going to be a useful player regardless, but I am not confident he's going to be a star type of guy.  We will see. If he learn to push guys around at TE he could develop into a big time player, but I don't assume that.

 

Maybe he's not nasty enough?  I would get him in combat sport training if I were the Colts.  Hire Gable Steveson to push him around on the mat and teach him how to use that body.

 

 

If you recall, the video of the draft at the time of the AP selection, and Ballard's comments post draft, indicated that Woods was probably his number 1 target in the draft.   He was deciding between AP and Woods at pick 53, and landed on AP as the pick.  After the draft, he said that he would have picked Woods at 53 if AP was not there (I'm assuming that AP fell to 53 in his mind).  No other GM seemed to see it that way and Woods was still there in the third round.

 

You've pointed out Woods' resume and that he is still a bit of a project.  But he had the best RAS of any TE.  Ballard seems to value players with metrics and upside over production/effectiveness more than most GMs.   

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12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Right now our TE room is pretty full so I'm not sure where Ballards head is at? :dunno:

Agree.  The only thing I see that could cause Ballard to add a TE is if he was to trade/release MAC first.  Otherwise, all 4 will be here and expected to grow/contribute next season.

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20 minutes ago, Myles said:

Why do you say that?

TE is one position I am looking forward to seeing next year.  Add Ogletree with Woods and Cox, it is pretty solid.   I'd like to see Granson gone but he will be in the mix as well.

I see that because I see criticism of these guys as blockers. I hope another year of work will help there.

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I agree.  With Woods size and strength it's not understandable to me why he can't block? Lack of coaching? Lack of effort?

 

  Woods is actually tall and thinner, not thick in the trunk. He was decent sealing the edge by seasons end. By the middle of year 3 i expect both of our younguns to be well rounded. 

 And his blocking was serviceable for a rookie. Think back to the blocking horror that Dallas Clark was throughout his career. And after all this time and investment Mo gets a blocking grade of a weak 7 IMO. Send him to the Bears with the lot of them.

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