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Are we really that bad?


The Peytonator

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When you really think about the state of our franchise, think about the fact that last year, the bosses decided that it made sense to keep playing the same old 8 yard cushion coverage on every single play.

Set up to fail. That was called sucking for Luck. You just answered your own question. I think ESPN is just trying to prepare you for next year as well. Everyone is pretty much on to our plan and their delicately painting the picture for you without saying "hey indy is tanking to refuel for 2015".

IMO, The FO has tipped their hand yet again cutting all these players that can't possibly be replaced in one draft. The FA moves we made were marginal, we picked up maybe 6-8 players that could start in various scenerios. So its obvious the FO plans to pick up all the talent in the draft. That said, we can't replace what we need with one draft, so we'll probably need next years too to fill in all the pieces.

if you see our Corners playing zone and giving an 8 yard buffer in this years opener you can pretty much start looking at the 2013 draft.

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Not a fair comparison.

It's not just Stafford as a high end top 5-10 pick. They have had a number of those.

This.

We haven't had a single top 20 pick since 2002 (Freeney). In that same period of time, the Lions have had 11. The ones currently on the roster are Calvin Johnson, Matt Stafford, Gosder Cherilus, Brandon Pettigrew, and Nick Fairley. Players like those aren't usually available between 24-32, where we've been picking virtually every year for a decade.

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Set up to fail. That was called sucking for Luck. You just answered your own question. I think ESPN is just trying to prepare you for next year as well. Everyone is pretty much on to our plan and their delicately painting the picture for you without saying "hey indy is tanking to refuel for 2015".

We played those ridiculous coverages dating all the way back to 2008. Coyer employed the bend-but-don't-cover soft defense in the Super Bowl, which helped Brees slice us up. We played it several times throughout 2010. It wasn't something we did just to get the #1 pick. Caldwell and Polian really believed in it.

IMO, The FO has tipped their hand yet again cutting all these players that can't possibly be replaced in one draft. The FA moves we made were marginal, we picked up maybe 6-8 players that could start in various scenerios. So its obvious the FO plans to pick up all the talent in the draft. That said, we can't replace what we need with one draft, so we'll probably need next years too to fill in all the pieces.

The players we cut were already replaced, or were unavailable to perform.

if you see our Corners playing zone and giving an 8 yard buffer in this years opener you can pretty much start looking at the 2013 draft.

Wow.

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This.

We haven't had a single top 20 pick since 2002 (Freeney). In that same period of time, the Lions have had 11. The ones currently on the roster are Calvin Johnson, Matt Stafford, Gosder Cherilus, Brandon Pettigrew, and Nick Fairley. Players like those aren't usually available between 24-32, where we've been picking virtually every year for a decade.

You can't forget Ndamukong Suh. He heck should get 10 points on the wonderlic for spelling his name right. I think Freeney was the last top 15 pick and Edge was the last top 5.

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To be honest...I hate to say it but yes. I mean seriously we talk about being better than Cleveland and Minnesota and Buffalo and Miami and the reason we say so is because of our belief in guys that have yet to prove anything. Yet imagine those teams fans feel the same way that we do. If we are depending on players that haven't proven anything than that is not a very good position to be in. Granted they could achieve what we ask..but there is probably just as big a chance that they don't. So for me to say our team is good enough to contend for the division or anything to me is just a long shot. Would I bet $100 to win $5 million we could win the division..sure! Would I bet my house to win a $5 million...no way!

Sure it is a new season and in the NFL any given sunday we can win. Just based on our roster and youth and new coaches it has to be a perfect season just to win our division. We are much closer to last then we are to first lets put it that way. To me we finish last in our conference and get another high pick. We load up in another draft and in FA next year and with another last place schedule than...than we have a shot at winning our division...then we have something to build on.

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You can't forget Ndamukong Suh. He heck should get 10 points on the wonderlic for spelling his name right. I think Freeney was the last top 15 pick and Edge was the last top 5.

How did I forget Suh? That makes it six top 20 picks. And I think all but Fairly, Pettigrew and Cherilus were top five; Stafford #1, Johnson #2, Suh #2.

Meantime our highest pick was Castonzo at #22, and then Clark at #24.

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Curtis Painter is "that" bad, or why the Colts aren't doomed, take your pick, this team should be a playoff team, sooner than later. I love Peyton and plan on following him specifically, but I'm more excited about the idea of Luck reaching his full potential as a Colt.

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And look at how the Lions are doing now. Set up for the future. Although i would love to speed up the time so we don;t have to wait 8 years to contend.

The Lions are "set up for the future" because they spent a decade as the worst team in the NFL. I'd rather my team not be a doormat. One year in the top ten of the draft is enough for me, especially since we're getting a highly rated quarterback out of the deal. Another year in the top ten would help us add some more good players, but that's enough. We'll have a ton of cap space next season, and we still have good players, contrary to popular opinion.

It's not going to take us eight years to contend, not if we get these next two drafts right. It shouldn't take us four years. Three years is the limit. If we get lucky, it can be two years. If we get real lucky, we can be decent in 2012. I think the front office has done everything right so far. Let's see how we feel a week from now, once the draft is done and we have a 90 man roster.

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We played those ridiculous coverages dating all the way back to 2008. Coyer employed the bend-but-don't-cover soft defense in the Super Bowl, which helped Brees slice us up. We played it several times throughout 2010. It wasn't something we did just to get the #1 pick. Caldwell and Polian really believed in it.

Caldwell actually got away from the Bend and not break defense. The more aggressive defense worked against both the Jets and the Ravens in the Playoffs and in the 1st half of the super bowl. He suddenly for some strange reason decided to go back to bend not break in 2011.

Guaranteed we'll have a top 3 pick next year, intentional or not. In Irsay's mind, he has one recipe for success and he's trying to cook it up again right now.

It's not going to take us eight years to contend, not if we get these next two drafts right.

you're admitting that there is a 2 year plan in effect.

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Set up to fail. That was called sucking for Luck. You just answered your own question. I think ESPN is just trying to prepare you for next year as well. Everyone is pretty much on to our plan and their delicately painting the picture for you without saying "hey indy is tanking to refuel for 2015".

IMO, The FO has tipped their hand yet again cutting all these players that can't possibly be replaced in one draft. The FA moves we made were marginal, we picked up maybe 6-8 players that could start in various scenerios. So its obvious the FO plans to pick up all the talent in the draft. That said, we can't replace what we need with one draft, so we'll probably need next years too to fill in all the pieces.

if you see our Corners playing zone and giving an 8 yard buffer in this years opener you can pretty much start looking at the 2013 draft.

haha

Sad but true.

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Set up to fail. That was called sucking for Luck. You just answered your own question. I think ESPN is just trying to prepare you for next year as well. Everyone is pretty much on to our plan and their delicately painting the picture for you without saying "hey indy is tanking to refuel for 2015".

IMO, The FO has tipped their hand yet again cutting all these players that can't possibly be replaced in one draft. The FA moves we made were marginal, we picked up maybe 6-8 players that could start in various scenerios. So its obvious the FO plans to pick up all the talent in the draft. That said, we can't replace what we need with one draft, so we'll probably need next years too to fill in all the pieces.

if you see our Corners playing zone and giving an 8 yard buffer in this years opener you can pretty much start looking at the 2013 draft.

Your exactly right......how will we possibly replace the following the players who were cut this offseason, with just one draft?!:

Peyton Manning - played in 0 games last year

Gary Brackett - played in 1 game last year

Anthony Hill - 2 receptions for the Colts last year

Jacob Lacey - probably the worst starting cornerback in the NFL last season

Curtis Painter - 66.6 passer rating in 9 games last season

Melvin Bullitt - played in 2 games last year

Dallas Clark - 5 games missed; 352 yards receiving

Blair White - played in 0 games last year

Joseph Addai - The most productive of this group.....4 games missed, with 433 yards rushing.

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Your exactly right......how will we possibly replace the following the players who were cut this offseason, with just one draft?!:

Peyton Manning - played in 0 games last year

Gary Brackett - played in 1 game last year

Anthony Hill - 2 receptions for the Colts last year

Jacob Lacey - probably the worst starting cornerback in the NFL last season

Curtis Painter - 66.6 passer rating in 9 games last season

Melvin Bullitt - played in 2 games last year

Dallas Clark - 5 games missed; 352 yards receiving

Blair White - played in 0 games last year

Joseph Addai - The most productive of this group.....4 games missed, with 433 yards rushing.

as funny as that is (and I thank you for listing the contributions of the cut players because I had no idea how they had performed last year having lived in a cave in siberia). You're advocating that 9 Pro Players (at any level) will adequetly be replaced by 9 rookies out of a draft. While admittedly some have been replaced already (bracket by angerer) their replacements are mediocre as well.

I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

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Caldwell actually got away from the Bend and not break defense. The more aggressive defense worked against both the Jets and the Ravens in the Playoffs and in the 1st half of the super bowl. He suddenly for some strange reason decided to go back to bend not break in 2011.

Guaranteed we'll have a top 3 pick next year, intentional or not. In Irsay's mind, he has one recipe for success and he's trying to cook it up again right now.

Caldwell and Coyer did a lot of different things on defense in 2009, most notably against the Patriots in the second half. Then they got super conservative in the Super Bowl, and the rest is history. They did a bunch of bend-but-don't-cover in 2010, and then at times almost exclusively in 2011.

I'm glad you're willing to guarantee our pick for next year. I just wish that actually meant something. I'm not expecting us to have a great win/loss record, but I don't think we're as bad as people make us out to be. And I don't think Jim Irsay has instructed the team to lose intentionally in order to secure a high draft position in 2013.

you're admitting that there is a 2 year plan in effect.

There's a plan to knock the draft out of the park every year. But even if we score 100 on this year's draft, we're still probably not a playoff team, barring some significant developments in our division. And then we'll have another year of crucial drafting. My point is that if we handle those two drafts well, we should be in the mix in 2013. That doesn't mean we're throwing 2012 away for the sake of draft position.

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as funny as that is (and I thank you for listing the contributions of the cut players because I had no idea how they had performed last year having lived in a cave in siberia).

Your welcome. It almost sounded as though you were saying we cut people who produced something last season, have access to a rejuvenation machine and will be able to revert back to when they were healthy and productive, so I just wanted to clarify.

You're advocating that 9 Pro Players (at any level) will adequetly be replaced by 9 rookies out of a draft. While admittedly some have been replaced already (bracket by angerer) their replacements are mediocre as well.

I'm advocating that the projected 2012 production of the 9 players that we cut due to age, injury and/or them sucking, will EASILY be replaced by 9 rookies in the draft or the players that have already replaced them. You actually think anyone who takes Anthony Hill's spot on the roster will be a downgrade, simply because Anthony Hill was a pro player last year?

I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

Again.....i'm saying that we need about 2 or 3 draft picks to replace what the 2012 production would have been had we kept all 9 of these players. Dallas Clark and Gary Brackett very likely won't be playing football next year, for instance. You don't think whatever rookies or replacement players we bring in at TE or LB will produce more than guys who won't be playing football next season?

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as funny as that is (and I thank you for listing the contributions of the cut players because I had no idea how they had performed last year having lived in a cave in siberia). You're advocating that 9 Pro Players (at any level) will adequetly be replaced by 9 rookies out of a draft. While admittedly some have been replaced already (bracket by angerer) their replacements are mediocre as well.

I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

Addai has already been replaced. Brackett has been replaced. Bullitt (a reserve thrown into the starting lineup himself) has been replaced by Zbikowski. Lacey is addition by subtraction. So is Painter (Orlovsky's barely mediocre quarterbacking was considerably better), and he plays the same position as Manning. Blair White and Anthony Hill were both deep reserves.

So you're really looking at one or two of those players needing to be replaced in the draft. And we're already drafting Luck, so now we're just talking about Dallas Clark, whose production was almost matched by Jacob Tamme in 2010 when he had a real quarterback (67 catches in 8 games extrapolates out to 134 catches in a season, annihilating Clark's career best 2009). Tamme was a 4th round draft pick, so there's no doubt we can replace him in the draft. I'll add Garcon to the list. We need to replace him in the draft as well.

So three out of our ten picks (I'll even give you four, because we probably need a combination of three receivers and tight ends) are spent already. Now we need a defensive lineman, maybe an offensive lineman, a corner, a safety, two linebackers, maybe a running back. That's ten.

No one is saying that we have a great team. The argument is simply that the players we lost, aside from Manning, Tamme and Garcon, hadn't produced at a high level in two years. Their replacements are already on the roster. I think it will take two drafts plus a couple of free agent acquisitions in 2013 to make us a legitimate playoff contender. Plus good coaching, plus some luck (not Luck). Not trying to downplay our needs, which are many and varied. I just think the idea that we have holes all over our roster is a little over-stated.

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The obvious conclusion to all this is (Lets face it) we tanked the whole season last year then won 2 games just to avoid 0-16 so we could get luck and that we are actually much better than we appear and that we are now motivated for winning

You know I hate conspiracy theories, but every time Painter got another start I did let the thought creep in...

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Addai has already been replaced. Brackett has been replaced. Bullitt (a reserve thrown into the starting lineup himself) has been replaced by Zbikowski. Lacey is addition by subtraction. So is Painter (Orlovsky's barely mediocre quarterbacking was considerably better), and he plays the same position as Manning. Blair White and Anthony Hill were both deep reserves.

So you're really looking at one or two of those players needing to be replaced in the draft. And we're already drafting Luck, so now we're just talking about Dallas Clark, whose production was almost matched by Jacob Tamme in 2010 when he had a real quarterback (67 catches in 8 games extrapolates out to 134 catches in a season, annihilating Clark's career best 2009). Tamme was a 4th round draft pick, so there's no doubt we can replace him in the draft. I'll add Garcon to the list. We need to replace him in the draft as well.

So three out of our ten picks (I'll even give you four, because we probably need a combination of three receivers and tight ends) are spent already. Now we need a defensive lineman, maybe an offensive lineman, a corner, a safety, two linebackers, maybe a running back. That's ten.

No one is saying that we have a great team. The argument is simply that the players we lost, aside from Manning, Tamme and Garcon, hadn't produced at a high level in two years. Their replacements are already on the roster. I think it will take two drafts plus a couple of free agent acquisitions in 2013 to make us a legitimate playoff contender. Plus good coaching, plus some luck (not Luck). Not trying to downplay our needs, which are many and varied. I just think the idea that we have holes all over our roster is a little over-stated.

^This

We are better than the perceived "expansion" team label being thrown around. Watch us surprise next year.

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out of those players I see only one players that will be hard to replace

Peyton (which we will see how that goes but it sure sounds like we did a great job replacing him)

Dallas Clark (although I believe we had the replacement for him well in hand in Tamme but let him go)

as for the rest

Addai was ok at best far from great more of a pass catcher then running back from what I saw didnt have the speed or power to break tackles or elude them

Jacob Lacey-simply didnt get the job done and is a nickle corner at best at this point

Brackett-well I'd say we found his replacement in Angerer

I didnt name the others cause they seemed to be nothing but bodies to fill out the roster

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Caldwell actually got away from the Bend and not break defense. The more aggressive defense worked against both the Jets and the Ravens in the Playoffs and in the 1st half of the super bowl. He suddenly for some strange reason decided to go back to bend not break in 2011.

Guaranteed we'll have a top 3 pick next year, intentional or not. In Irsay's mind, he has one recipe for success and he's trying to cook it up again right now.

you're admitting that there is a 2 year plan in effect.

I agree on 2 years to win AFC South.Texans lost some talent and we have boo koo cap dollars to spend next year on FAs and our draft picks.Drop Freeney and our cap space next year would exceed 70 mill.So with this draft off season and next years draft i can easily see our team having all the pieces.
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All of this "mess" is actually a good mess to have. To build a team thats going to improve as time goes on is great to have. You have many teams that are going to have to rebuild just like we are. We honestly "Lucked" out. We're not a bad football team by any means. I honestly think we make the playoffs though. Are defense is going to really going to be on the attack.

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I expect us to compete this year not likely for a playoff spot but on the field compete none the less, we will have hungry college guys looking to come in and learn and prove themselves. Im sure we wont make the playoffs, but with that said if we can take one of two once again against Houston Im sure it will make them take notice that we are still around and arent going anywhere now hopefully we arent as injured as we were last year but injuries will happen I just hope we dont have to start moving guys around on the line again, that proved to be a disaster, one day at a time I say but Houston your soon to be the Hunted

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You can say that about every team in the NFL. Every team cuts players and loses free agents in the offseason and gets nothing in return. Every single one.

You think the Texans are whining because they got NOTHING in return for losing Mario Williams, Eric Winston, Mike Beisel, Jason Allen, Neil Rackers, Joel Dreesen and Lawrence Vickers (all key parts of their playoff team from last year)? No, they are thinking Super Bowl.

I don't remember the specifics on the other players you mentioned, but the Texans will get something in return for Williams by way of a compensatory pick in next year's draft. If the other players were UFA that simply signed with another team then the Texans could potentially get compensatory picks for them as well. By cutting the players that we did we lose out on the ability to even get a compensatory pick for them. However, it was still better to cut them now instead of paying the over-inflated contracts many of them were given. I was hoping we could have traded Clark but the lack of interest in him since he was cut pretty clearly explains why we were unable to trade him.

If we could win 2 games with the team that we put out on the field last year, led by a man who was way over his head when he coached at f'ing Wake Forest in the ACC, then it stands to reason we can win 5-6 games this year.

I mean, do you people realize that we nearly beat Pittsburgh in week 3, and the following players actually started that game for us: Kerry Collins, Jeff Linkenbach, Eric Foster, Jacob Lacey, David Caldwell. Think about that for a minute. And in addition to those 5 stiffs, the following players actually garnered significant playing time for the Colts last year: Joe Lefeged, Quinn Ojinnaka, Curtis Painter, Daniel Muir, Mike Tepper, Anthony Hill, Dan Orlovsky, Jerome Felton, Terrance Johnson.

So, I don't know what any this talk is based on.....we will be immensely more talented this year than we were last year. There will be no comparison.

Hey now....you be nice to Jerome Felton. He did a pretty good job after Mahaffey got hurt. As for the rest, well....yeah I agree :) lol

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Completely random, but just wondering, how do you make your own topic in forums?

Simple Raycolts12. Just click on the blue tab called forums at the top of this page, go to Colts football, & click on Start New Topic on the right side of the page near the top. Enter the title of your topic, the text, & click post. Don't worry if you put it in the wrong category or location...The moderators will place the topic in the right spot eventually. I hope this helps Raycolts12. Let me know if you have any further questions, comments, or concerns about my directions.

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Simple Raycolts12. Just click on the blue tab called forums at the top of this page, go to Colts football, & click on Start New Topic on the right side of the page near the top. Enter the title of your topic, the text, & click post. Don't worry if you put it in the wrong category or location...The moderators will place the topic in the right spot eventually. I hope this helps Raycolts12. Let me know if you have any further questions, comments, or concerns about my directions.

Well, you should try to put the topic in the right forum to save the mods some work, but if you put it in the wrong forum you're not going to get cane'd or anything like that. :) Also, there is a requirement that you have to have a minimum number of posts in order to start a new thread which is probably why Raycolts doesn't see the "start new topic" button. :)

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If we could win 2 games with the team that we put out on the field last year, led by a man who was way over his head when he coached at f'ing Wake Forest in the ACC, then it stands to reason we can win 5-6 games this year.

I mean, do you people realize that we nearly beat Pittsburgh in week 3, and the following players actually started that game for us: Kerry Collins, Jeff Linkenbach, Eric Foster, Jacob Lacey, David Caldwell. Think about that for a minute. And in addition to those 5 stiffs, the following players actually garnered significant playing time for the Colts last year: Joe Lefeged, Quinn Ojinnaka, Curtis Painter, Daniel Muir, Mike Tepper, Anthony Hill, Dan Orlovsky, Jerome Felton, Terrance Johnson.

So, I don't know what any this talk is based on.....we will be immensely more talented this year than we were last year. There will be no comparison.

Yeah well, virtually the same team got smacked around by the Saints and ended up with a 2-14 season.

Yes, we'll be better than last year, with a new top QB and some pretty good deals made in free agency, but the playoffs still seems highly unlikely.

We'll probably win 6-8 games this season, no matter who we draft

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WE trash the players we cut but not everybody does.....Any way you look at it, we got NOTHING in return for a halfdozen veterans.

You can say what you want about the old guys we ashcanned but we got NOTHING for them.

Of course we are less talenetd for now..

...Lets draft some new boys and see how we look then...

I see what you are trying to say OldUncle, but what did you honestly think we would get for those VETERANS?? Most of them are still FA's....if other teams arent willing to spend $ on them when their available for just $, how could you possibly see the Colts getting any kind of return for said players? They are still available for a reason

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To me this year we take a beating but we get invaluable experience. Luck and the rookie class get to grow up fast getting plenty of playing time. Vets like Freeney and Mathis and Angerer get to learn a new defense. Brown and Hughes and our secondary get the chance to prove themselves (or not). Our OL will get the chance to gel or break down. Fact is we don't have a lot of difference makers on this team. I would go out and say not counting a rookie Luck we have (0) on the offensive side of the ball.

Reggies days of blowing by coverage and taking over games are long gone. He will get us 6 catches and 75 yards sure. Collie the same. Brown possibly could step up but he is just as likely to be a 18 rush 75 yard guy. On defense we have Mathis and Freeney playing in a new scheme. They are the difference makers but they aren't the same as 3 or 4 years ago. Bethea is solid but man our secondary is weak. Definately no difference makers there. We have a lot of avg to below avg guys STARTING. That doesn't bode well for winning a lot of games. Look at last year. Hopefully we get better..get some difference makers in FA and some more talent in the draft next year and our rookies this year learn and perhaps going into 2013/14 I will be much more optimistic.

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as funny as that is (and I thank you for listing the contributions of the cut players because I had no idea how they had performed last year having lived in a cave in siberia). You're advocating that 9 Pro Players (at any level) will adequetly be replaced by 9 rookies out of a draft. While admittedly some have been replaced already (bracket by angerer) their replacements are mediocre as well.

I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

as funny as that is (and I thank you for listing the contributions of the cut players because I had no idea how they had performed last year having lived in a cave in siberia). You're advocating that 9 Pro Players (at any level) will adequetly be replaced by 9 rookies out of a draft. While admittedly some have been replaced already (bracket by angerer) their replacements are mediocre as well.

I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

Joseph Addai,and of course Pm are the only players theyare going to miss this year.Most of what they lost was useless due to injuries,poor play,or whatever.I think they can possibly be a little better this season on both sides of the ball.I look for 5 wins,maybe 6.Up that to 7 to 8 the next year and then back in business in 2014.It is going to take at least a couple years to get back to playoff caliber I'm afraid.
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If we could win 2 games with the team that we put out on the field last year, led by a man who was way over his head when he coached at f'ing Wake Forest in the ACC, then it stands to reason we can win 5-6 games this year.

I mean, do you people realize that we nearly beat Pittsburgh in week 3, and the following players actually started that game for us: Kerry Collins, Jeff Linkenbach, Eric Foster, Jacob Lacey, David Caldwell. Think about that for a minute. And in addition to those 5 stiffs, the following players actually garnered significant playing time for the Colts last year: Joe Lefeged, Quinn Ojinnaka, Curtis Painter, Daniel Muir, Mike Tepper, Anthony Hill, Dan Orlovsky, Jerome Felton, Terrance Johnson.

So, I don't know what any this talk is based on.....we will be immensely more talented this year than we were last year. There will be no comparison.

^YES!^

Since we were coached by a Mannequin, an OC who had no idea what he was doing since he let Manning do it all, and Larry "the Defense Destroyer" Coyer, I think we will do MUCH better this year.

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I'm simply saying we'll need 2 drafts to replace what we've lost or what we already didn't have (running game).

I think it will take two drafts plus a couple of free agent acquisitions in 2013 to make us a legitimate playoff contender. Plus good coaching, plus some luck (not Luck). Not trying to downplay our needs, which are many and varied. I just think the idea that we have holes all over our roster is a little over-stated.

I think we agree with the exception of the conspiracy theory. ;) I'd also say while we put bodies in those positions - we're underselling the value of those players many of which underperformed last year but took us to a super bowl only a couple of years before.

I agree on 2 years to win AFC South.Texans lost some talent and we have boo koo cap dollars to spend next year on FAs and our draft picks.Drop Freeney and our cap space next year would exceed 70 mill.So with this draft off season and next years draft i can easily see our team having all the pieces.

I think everyone including the FO knows we need 2 drafts to completely refurbish this team.

You know I hate conspiracy theories, but every time Painter got another start I did let the thought creep in...

^ that and letting Caldwell stick around past week 10.

Guys, one thing you should know about me. I like to throw some shock value into my one liners. Don't take anything I say too seriously and It will probably offend you less.

I don't think the players tanked the season, but I do think that there was some discussion higher up regarding the fact that if we did do poorly without manning that we would be in the running for Luck (who was already on the radar at the time) to replace an uncertain Manning. This discussion could have been between Irsay, Polian and Caldwell. Caldwell may have subconciously decided to start Painter over Orlovsky for a few more games than any sane person might have, play zone coverage more than any sane person would have. Meanwhile Irsay may have subconciously kept Caldwell around longer than any sane person would have . In fact keeping Caldwell and the rest of the coaching staff around after 10 losses possibly hints that the decision to entirely rebuild could have been made considerably sooner than clinching the pick. Otherwise why not fire caldwell and save the season. Why was Calwell still around when 3 other head coaches had already been dismissed. Other columnists, Bob Kravitz, Mike Florio, Howard Bryant and Mike Preston thought we were tanking as well.

Just a thought that goes a little ways towards answering the topic, "Are we really that bad?"... the answer is no. We just (for whatever reason) grossly underperformed last year on all levels.

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Your exactly right......how will we possibly replace the following the players who were cut this offseason, with just one draft?!:

Peyton Manning - played in 0 games last year replaced by andrew luck

Gary Brackett - played in 1 game last year replaced by pat angerer

Anthony Hill - 2 receptions for the Colts last year now who is this guy??

Jacob Lacey - probably the worst starting cornerback in the NFL last season can be replaced easily through the draft

Curtis Painter - 66.6 passer rating in 9 games last season replaced by another no name backup that might actually can play better.

Melvin Bullitt - played in 2 games last year replaced by tom zibicowski (i know spelling lol)

Dallas Clark - 5 games missed; 352 yards receiving will probably be replaced during the draft

Blair White - played in 0 games last year replaced by avery ;)

Joseph Addai - The most productive of this group.....4 games missed, with 433 yards rushing. we still have brown, and carter ;) who performed better then addai.

wow so hard to replace these guy. *rolls eyes* i still say we "shock" the nfl and post a 10-6 record. last i checked we still have collie, wayne, freeney, mathis, powers, angerer. ya know those guys?

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Your exactly right......how will we possibly replace the following the players who were cut this offseason, with just one draft?!:

Peyton Manning - played in 0 games last year

Gary Brackett - played in 1 game last year

Anthony Hill - 2 receptions for the Colts last year

Jacob Lacey - probably the worst starting cornerback in the NFL last season

Curtis Painter - 66.6 passer rating in 9 games last season

Melvin Bullitt - played in 2 games last year

Dallas Clark - 5 games missed; 352 yards receiving

Blair White - played in 0 games last year

Joseph Addai - The most productive of this group.....4 games missed, with 433 yards rushing.

Meh what the heck, Ill throw this list a response...

1. You can't replace the first guy on the list with 100 drafts. So is this list really valid? I mean if we're just saying PM played 0 games so hes replaceable is just plain silly.

2. Garry Brackett was hurt in 2010 and while admittedly not as good since 2008 (I like Angerer) he was a leader on the field and in the locker room. thats called an intangible.

3. Jacob Lacey put up pretty comparible numbers last year. Not sure why the hate. Sure hes not great but lets compare him to a "lights out" corner.

Lacey had 72 tackles 3 forced fumbles and a pick six versus Revis who had 52 tackles 0 ff and 3 interceptions. So lacey, was a bargain at 4 turnovers and more tackles than Revis. Apparently the Lions felt the same way.

4. Dallas Clark. Here I agree. Tamme came in and filled that spot right up.

5. Addai. I also agree good riddance. Hasn't been good since 2008.

so while I agree that we can draft up some young hungry guys, sometimes we dismiss the accomplishments of former teammates simply because they are gone.

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I think we agree with the exception of the conspiracy theory. ;) I'd also say while we put bodies in those positions - we're underselling the value of those players many of which underperformed last year but took us to a super bowl only a couple of years before.

We won ten games in 2010 (very easily could have been 13 wins) with Clark, Addai, Bullitt, and Brackett, missing tons of games. Plus a bunch of players who are still on the team right now who were on IR or missed a bunch of games.

I'm not underselling the value of those guys in 2009. I'm just saying it isn't 2009 anymore, and the idea that we have to spend a bunch of draft picks replacing players that haven't performed since 2009 is inaccurate. We've been making due without them for two years already.

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We've been making due without them for two years already.

I agree after going through the list its apparent that none of these guys with the exception of Manning & Lacey, did anything since 2009.

I stand by we are an expansion team until we see how a. Mannings replacement responds to the faster pace of the NFL b. all this chemistry gels into a new ball club.

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We won ten games in 2010 (very easily could have been 13 wins) with Clark, Addai, Bullitt, and Brackett, missing tons of games. Plus a bunch of players who are still on the team right now who were on IR or missed a bunch of games.

I'm not underselling the value of those guys in 2009. I'm just saying it isn't 2009 anymore, and the idea that we have to spend a bunch of draft picks replacing players that haven't performed since 2009 is inaccurate. We've been making due without them for two years already.

Well said...

The Colts were 6-6 on 12/5/10, and won the last four by 2, 10, 5, and 3 points to get into the playoffs. So the Colts could also have gone 6-10. The writing was on the wall for where we all are today for a lot of that year. The issues, shortcomings, lack of depth, injuries and everything behind the brilliance of PM was all there to see in 2010, and then was obviously repeatedly punching us all in the nose in 2011.

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Meh what the heck, Ill throw this list a response...

1. You can't replace the first guy on the list with 100 drafts. So is this list really valid? I mean if we're just saying PM played 0 games so hes replaceable is just plain silly.

Agreed. But the real point is that we'll be better at quarterback in 2012 than we were in 2011. I think that's pretty well accepted.

2. Garry Brackett was hurt in 2010 and while admittedly not as good since 2008 (I like Angerer) he was a leader on the field and in the locker room. thats called an intangible.

Intangibles matter when you're on the field. Brackett has been off the field more than on it over the last two seasons. Angerer is already our starter, and even if we had kept Brackett, Angerer would be the better option. Which is part of the reason we didn't keep Brackett.

3. Jacob Lacey put up pretty comparible numbers last year. Not sure why the hate. Sure hes not great but lets compare him to a "lights out" corner.

Lacey had 72 tackles 3 forced fumbles and a pick six versus Revis who had 52 tackles 0 ff and 3 interceptions. So lacey, was a bargain at 4 turnovers and more tackles than Revis. Apparently the Lions felt the same way.

None of that matters. I agree that Lacey gets beat up a little more here than he deserves, and I'd say the same about all of our corners. The defensive scheme made them all look terrible. But Jacob Lacey is not a good corner, especially not as a starter. I don't care how many tackles he had (underrated as a tackler, by the way), or if he had more turnovers than Revis, or anyone else. He's obviously not half the player Revis is. And the fact that the Lions signed him to a one year deal doesn't mean that they think he's a better bargain than Revis. This entire comparison is flawed from the ground up.

so while I agree that we can draft up some young hungry guys, sometimes we dismiss the accomplishments of former teammates simply because they are gone.

I agree there as well. But we're mostly talking about players who simply did not contribute last season. Many of them didn't contribute in 2010. Half of them are still free agents, indicating that other teams in the league don't think very much about their abilities at this point in their careers. I'll always appreciate everything these guys did for the Colts. I'll always feel sorry for them for having their perfect season snatched out from under them in 2009, and then having a Super Bowl taken away partially by poor coaching. Even Lacey, I appreciate his pick-six keeping us from 0-16. I don't think I need to say anything about Peyton Manning. But the fact that these guys are gone doesn't mean that we're doomed for the foreseeable future. Most of these guys haven't done anything to contribute to a W in two years.

So we'll use our ten picks in this draft to fill some holes. We've already addressed some needs in free agency, and I think we've done a very good job. Then we have next year's draft, plus more cap space than we've ever had, and we'll be required to use that cap space. We can look at it as a two year plan, or a three year plan, or a five year plan, but that doesn't mean we'll suck for that whole time.

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