Oh dear Harbaugh and Luck meeting with Irsay

[Superman]

Harbaugh most likely isn't leaving Michigan. Hopefully all that talk gets shut down quickly after his recent comments.

 

And if he does leave Michigan, I don't want him.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Timeout said:

This team is kinda in a rut with contracts that no other teams will want to take over and new contract signings coming up.

 

No it's not. 

 

Welcome to the board, by the way.

[Timeout]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No it's not. 

 

Welcome to the board, by the way.

IMO it's. Thanks for the welcome..

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, Timeout said:

Agree, I think Irsay really wants Harbaugh IMO. It comes down to what is Irsay really willing to give up to get him as the HC? Plus it comes down also on Harbaugh. Is he up to fixing this team? Maybe he is content where he is at.

None of us really know. This team is kinda in a rut with contracts that no other teams will want to take over and new contract signings coming up. I want a new GM but not sure getting rid of Ballard at this time is smart. See Bold

what contract ruts? 

 

aside from Ryan

[richard pallo]

Been reading a lot of opinions in the press about whether he will or won’t leave Michigan.  The sentiment is he leaves if he wins the National Championship and stays if he doesn’t.  They think there will be nothing left for him to prove in the college ranks but there is at the pro level.  We will see if they are right.

[Superman]

18 hours ago, Zoltan said:

what contract ruts? 

 

aside from Ryan

 

Good question...

[stitches]

18 hours ago, Zoltan said:

what contract ruts? 

 

aside from Ryan

Both Ryans I guess... Leonard could be bad contract but we don't know yet... Q can be a bad contract, but we don't know yet... 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, stitches said:

Both Ryans I guess... Leonard could be bad contract but we don't know yet... Q can be a bad contract, but we don't know yet... 

 

Having a questionable contract or two does not constitute being "in a rut." 

 

We can shed Kelly's contract easily. Ryan's contract has a little bit of pain to it, but not enough that we can't get rid of it. Leonard and Q are the biggest question marks, and even those aren't anything to worry about. We could bite the bullet on Leonard if we wanted, and be free of it by 2024, but nothing is likely to happen there unless he can't play in 2023. And it's pointless to even include Nelson in this discussion, he's still a good player, and could very well regain his standing as a great player. 

 

Even if you're stuck with Nelson and Leonard, they take up $32m of the approx $220m cap in 2023. That's 14.5%. They don't prevent us from doing anything we want/need to do moving forward. The idea that our contract situation would make the team less desirable to a GM candidate is wild talk.

 

And one more thing on Nelson... Even great players have a bad season here and there. The guy was first team All Pro his first three seasons, and second team All Pro last season (with 13 votes, which is considerable). He has a rough start to this season, and we're acting like he's a noose around the team's neck? 

[stitches]

22 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Having a questionable contract or two does not constitute being "in a rut." 

 

We can shed Kelly's contract easily. Ryan's contract has a little bit of pain to it, but not enough that we can't get rid of it. Leonard and Q are the biggest question marks, and even those aren't anything to worry about. We could bite the bullet on Leonard if we wanted, and be free of it by 2024, but nothing is likely to happen there unless he can't play in 2023. And it's pointless to even include Nelson in this discussion, he's still a good player, and could very well regain his standing as a great player. 

 

Even if you're stuck with Nelson and Leonard, they take up $32m of the approx $220m cap in 2023. That's 14.5%. They don't prevent us from doing anything we want/need to do moving forward. The idea that our contract situation would make the team less desirable to a GM candidate is wild talk.

 

And one more thing on Nelson... Even great players have a bad season here and there. The guy was first team All Pro his first three seasons, and second team All Pro last season (with 13 votes, which is considerable). He has a rough start to this season, and we're acting like he's a noose around the team's neck? 

I'm not too worried right now, but both Leonard and Nelson are on 2 year streaks that should be at least a bit worrying. Leonard mainly due to injuries, Nelson - a combo of injuries and subpar performances. Leonard has already had 3 concussions just in the NFL if I'm not mistaken. This in addition to an injury that required an ankle surgery, a back surgery and then another back surgery... I have no idea how we can have any confidence he ever gets close to his play from before those injuries. Nelson is far from being useless, even in his current shape, but he's also far from being a 20M a year guard in his current shape(and BTW IMO he didn't deserve 2nd team all pro last year... IMO he got it just on name recognition alone). 

 

For whatever it's worth I think I'm more worried about Leonard than Nelson. Just his injuries are more serious and more misteriously not resolving as expected so far. 

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Both Ryans I guess... Leonard could be bad contract but we don't know yet... Q can be a bad contract, but we don't know yet... 

even the Leonard contract has an out after next season. Qs contract also has an out, what you can say about Ballard is that he always builds outs in contract negotiations. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Nelson is far from being useless, even in his current shape, but he's also far from being a 20M a year guard in his current shape(and BTW IMO he didn't deserve 2nd team all pro last year... IMO he got it just on name recognition alone). 

 

This is auxiliary, but... He got 13 votes, out of a possible 50. Leading vote getter got 46, number two got 28. It's not the Pro Bowl. It's partisan to detract from a player's All Pro standing because you don't think he deserved it. The voters spoke. Perhaps there are other All Pros you disagree with? Still doesn't matter, they were All Pro as well.

 

To the larger point, he's still a very good player, who has shown himself to be a great player most of his career. Questions about his physical health are relevant, but they don't have answers at this point. Even still, his contract isn't holding us back.

 

Questions about Leonard are even more relevant. And just the same, his contract is also not holding us back. If we wanted to reallocate our cap resources right away, we could do so. We probably wouldn't make a killing on the return compensation at this point, but that's another discussion.

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is auxiliary, but... He got 13 votes, out of a possible 50. Leading vote getter got 46, number two got 28. It's not the Pro Bowl. It's partisan to detract from a player's All Pro standing because you don't think he deserved it. The voters spoke. Perhaps there are other All Pros you disagree with? Still doesn't matter, they were All Pro as well.

At the end of the day all pro votes don't block and don't pass protect. Tell me what level of play do you think he had last year? Was his level of play commensurate with 20M a year at guard? Would you be happy us paying 20M a year for the next 5 years for a guard that plays at the level Q played last year... or this year? I wouldn't. IMO he has higher chance to return to a level that deserves that pay than Leonard, but still - IMO there is a legitimate question about whether he will or not, especially if we think he's relatively healthy this year... 

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the larger point, he's still a very good player, who has shown himself to be a great player most of his career. Questions about his physical health are relevant, but they don't have answers at this point. Even still, his contract isn't holding us back.

That's fair and I agree the contracts themselves are not as big a deal as many think. A lot of them have early outs. As long as you actually take those outs... but most teams don't take them until it's too late...

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

Questions about Leonard are even more relevant. And just the same, his contract is also not holding us back. If we wanted to reallocate our cap resources right away, we could do so. We probably wouldn't make a killing on the return compensation at this point, but that's another discussion.

See above. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, stitches said:

At the end of the day all pro votes don't block and don't pass protect. Tell me what level of play do you think he had last year? Was his level of play commensurate with 20M a year at guard? Would you be happy us paying 20M a year for the next 5 years for a guard that plays at the level Q played last year... or this year? I wouldn't. IMO he has higher chance to return to a level that deserves that pay than Leonard, but still - IMO there is a legitimate question about whether he will or not, especially if we think he's relatively healthy this year... 

 

Last year wasn't his best, but it doesn't matter. I'm only talking about All Pro because the other poster said you don't pay a guard unless he's All Pro, and Nelson has spent his career as an All Pro. If he's not living up to his contract at present, that's one thing, but he earned his standing over several seasons, and acting like he hasn't is pointless.

[Patrick Miller]

21 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Kravitz: The Colts need a savior, and it ain’t Jeff Saturday. The Colts need Jim Harbaugh
 

https://theathletic.com/3969913/2022/12/05/colts-jim-harbaugh-jeff-saturday-jim-irsay/

 

 

Whether it happened or not, we’ve finally lived long enough for the local media (And Kravitz, of all people!) to have started the clamor for Harbaugh…

I would love it!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ouch 

 

 

[Boondoggle]

On 12/5/2022 at 6:41 PM, Timeout said:

Agree, I think Irsay really wants Harbaugh IMO. It comes down to what is Irsay really willing to give up to get him as the HC? Plus it comes down also on Harbaugh. Is he up to fixing this team? Maybe he is content where he is at.

None of us really know. This team is kinda in a rut with contracts that no other teams will want to take over and new contract signings coming up. I want a new GM but not sure getting rid of Ballard at this time is smart. See Bold

This roster is strong when you consider how bad some rosters can look when there is a coaching change.  Colts have a decent first round pick in the range to go get a QB.  Won't be able to get to the top spot but they will be very attractive in most aspects for prospective coaches.

 

But they won't be attractive at owner.  So Irsay's biggest job is going to be convincing Harbaugh that he's not gonna Jerry Jones him.  He will need to agree to that, as well as allowing Harbaugh to pick the GM and the GM will work for him.  When you give the head coach final say on personnel that means the GM is his boy.  That's how it will need to be in order to get Harbaugh in here.

 

There are teams that look vastly better due to QB being in place like the Chargers.  But as all that goes the Colts are actually in pretty good shape.  If they fail to get one of these two proven commodities as head coach Irsay will only have himself to blame I think.

[jemack]

On 12/6/2022 at 10:24 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ouch 

 

 

But jiiiim, we have Ryan....

Let Harbaugh pick our next Qb. I think if we're top 5 in the draft and he wins the Nat Ch, he'll come aboard.

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, jemack said:

But jiiiim, we have Ryan....

Let Harbaugh pick our next Qb. I think if we're top 5 in the draft and he wins the Nat Ch, he'll come aboard.

If he wins the Nat Ch I think he leaves as well.  That SB would be the missing piece for him.  Perfect time for him to return.  

[Timeout]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:35 AM, richard pallo said:

If he wins the Nat Ch I think he leaves as well.  That SB would be the missing piece for him.  Perfect time for him to return.  

I'm not saying I want him. But the smoke is there Irsay wants him here. Unfortunately, Irsay the only one that matters, and I think he wants Harbaugh.

Harbaugh isn't going to say anything other than loving Michigan where season is. Going to say he isn't got any plans going elsewhere. That is what he got to do as a coach. I'm guessing I might be wrong but I'm sure Harbaugh is Colts HC next season. JMO

[Powerslave]

Harbaugh is staying at UM.  He said on the Fiesta Bowl teleconference he was "enthusiastically" returning next yr.  It took him a long time to get UM back to national prominence.  He's not leaving now.  Plus I don't think his wife will let them uproot the family.  Their kids go to the same schools John and Jim attended.  His parents live close by.  Money isn't a issue and he has total control of that program.  

[Solid84]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:24 AM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ouch 

 

 

I mean, take off the blue colored shades and he's not wrong...

[Hoose]

13 minutes ago, ThePowerslave said:

Harbaugh is staying at UM.  He said on the Fiesta Bowl teleconference he was "enthusiastically" returning next yr.  It took him a long time to get UM back to national prominence.  He's not leaving now.  Plus I don't think his wife will let them uproot the family.  Their kids go to the same schools John and Jim attended.  His parents live close by.  Money isn't a issue and he has total control of that program.  

Yup. He's in a good space right now. The Colts are not all that attractive, I hate to say. The job at Michigan is now secure and VERY attractive. The Colts will have to look elsewhere. 

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Solid84 said:

I mean, take off the blue colored shades and he's not wrong...

Blue colored glasses? 

Cowher's comment is narrow minded. 

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Blue colored glasses? 

Cowher's comment is narrow minded. 

How so?

 

The Titans are consistently competitive and well run? Check

We can't beat the Jags and they are getting better? Check

Small market? Check

Mess at QB? Check

Bad Oline? Check

Multiple holes on the roster? This one is debatable, but we do have clear needs and a lot of free agents next year. I'd say check.

Meddling owner? Check

 

None of that is wrong unless you refuse to see what's right in front of you.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

How so?

 

The Titans are consistently competitive and well run? Check

We can't beat the Jags and they are getting better? Check

Small market? Check

Mess at QB? Check

Bad Oline? Check

Multiple holes on the roster? This one is debatable, but we do have clear needs and a lot of free agents next year. I'd say check.

Meddling owner? Check

 

None of that is wrong unless you refuse to see what's right in front of you.

 

Every man that wants to be a head coach naturally would love to start on a team that has one of the top 5 QBs in the league.  You find it convenient to correlate what he said was aimed at the Colts. 

That is B-S. 

[Solid84]

26 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Every man that wants to be a head coach naturally would love to start on a team that has one of the top 5 QBs in the league.  You find it convenient to correlate what he said was aimed at the Colts. 

That is B-S. 

A man who's said to want a SB ring isn't going to go to a team looking at at least a minor rebuild. Did you actually watch the clip or did you just read the tweet? He said a lot of things I think are true to an extent at least, not just about the QB...

 

I know Cowherd likes to stir the pot just to get views, doesn't mean what some of what he says doesn't hold a measure of truth.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

A man who's said to want a SB ring isn't going to go to a team looking at at least a minor rebuild. Did you actually watch the clip or did you just read the tweet? He said a lot of things I think are true to an extent at least, not just about the QB...

 

I know Cowherd likes to stir the pot just to get views, doesn't mean what some of what he says doesn't hold a measure of truth.

I didn't say he wasn't truthful but what he said was not aimed directly at the Colts. He named 4 teams.  That leaves 28 other teams. For someone to correlate it directly to the Colts is self serving.

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I didn't say he wasn't truthful but what he said was not aimed directly at the Colts. He named 4 teams.  That leaves 28 other teams. For someone to correlate it directly to the Colts is self serving.

"Indianapolis is not a good job" - Cowherd... how exactly am I correlating something that isn't being talked about to the Colts? He explicitly talks about the Colts?

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

"Indianapolis is not a good job" - Cowherd... how exactly am I correlating something that isn't being talked about to the Colts? He explicitly talks about the Colts?

If you want to believe the Colts is not a good place for a coach to coach feel free. 

[Solid84]

25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

If you want to believe the Colts is not a good place for a coach to coach feel free. 

The Colts aren't landing a big name HC right now in my opinion based on my earlier post. If you disagree, that's fine. If you want to discuss it give me some arguments and we can. You haven't really so far.

[Myles]

51 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

"Indianapolis is not a good job" - Cowherd... how exactly am I correlating something that isn't being talked about to the Colts? He explicitly talks about the Colts?

Remember Cow turd is a *.    He is right once in a while but it is just a case of throwing stuff out there so much he will eventually be right. 

[Solid84]

49 minutes ago, Myles said:

Remember Cow turd is a *.    He is right once in a while but it is just a case of throwing stuff out there so much he will eventually be right. 

I know he is, doesn't mean he isn't right from time to time.

 

Like I said:

The Titans are consistently competitive and well run? Check

We can't beat the Jags and they are getting better? Check

Small market? Check

Mess at QB? Check

Bad Oline? Check

Multiple holes on the roster? This one is debatable, but we do have clear needs and a lot of free agents next year. I'd say check.

Meddling owner? Check

 

That doesn't scream top priority for a highly sought after HC.

[richard pallo]

I laughed when I listened to Cowherd’s tape.  Remember Ballard is Cowherds buddy. He interviews him frequently.  He’s one of Cowherds insiders.  So his negative comments on the Colts directly implicates Ballard for the roster and quarterback problems.  Not a take I would expect a friend to do to a friend.  On the other hand Cowherd has a big audience.  I can see him hoping this gets back to Harbaugh.  Actually trying to help Ballard hold onto his job.  Knowing very well if Harbaugh goes to the Colts Ballard most likely will be gone.    He paints the picture of the Colts being a very undesirable team to coach where in actuality it is a very good team you would want to coach and complete it to your vision.  I could see Harbaugh wanting to come here knowing it would not take a complete rebuild to get back to being a SB contender.  And he could accomplish the job quickly.  I think Ballard could do it quickly too with the right coach.  But Harbaugh could want total control and that could leave Ballard on the street.  Not for long probably but let’s face it no one wants to get fired.  A different take but I can see Cowherd doing it.

[Superman]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:01 PM, Timeout said:

the smoke is there Irsay wants him here.

 

Not really.

[crazycolt1]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:16 AM, Solid84 said:

The Colts aren't landing a big name HC right now in my opinion based on my earlier post. If you disagree, that's fine. If you want to discuss it give me some arguments and we can. You haven't really so far.

For one thing exactly what is a big name coach? A retreaded coach? A college coach? 

The Lions have been the laughing stock of the league and they hired a great coach. When Belichick was hired he didn't have a great record as a head coach. Now he has chink in his armor without Brady. 

My point is no one knows who is going to turn out to be a good head coach. 

This narrative you are pushing that the Colts are a bad organization is total nonsense. 

 

[Solid84]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

For one thing exactly what is a big name coach? A retreaded coach? A college coach? 

The Lions have been the laughing stock of the league and they hired a great coach. When Belichick was hired he didn't have a great record as a head coach. Now he has chink in his armor without Brady. 

My point is no one knows who is going to turn out to be a good head coach. 

This narrative you are pushing that the Colts are a bad organization is total nonsense. 

 

Well, in the context of this thread, it's guys like Harbaugh and Peyton. Guys who have proven they can win and who have teams lined up to sign them.

 

Not saying we can't find a gem in a new, unseasoned coach, but that's not what we are discussing. Of course we can find a coach. That's not the question. The question is do we have to sign our 2nd choice? 3rd? 4th?

 

"This narrative you are pushing that the Colts are a bad organization is total nonsense."

It isn't. At all. That's why it's being brought up in the media. I lined up perfectly valid arguments for why this isn't the dream location for a high profile HC. You are only deflecting without actually argumenting why it is.

[2006Coltsbestever]

26 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Well, in the context of this thread, it's guys like Harbaugh and Peyton. Guys who have proven they can win and who have teams lined up to sign them.

 

Not saying we can't find a gem in a new, unseasoned coach, but that's not what we are discussing. Of course we can find a coach. That's not the question. The question is do we have to sign our 2nd choice? 3rd? 4th?

 

"This narrative you are pushing that the Colts are a bad organization is total nonsense."

It isn't. At all. That's why it's being brought up in the media. I lined up perfectly valid arguments for why this isn't the dream location for a high profile HC. You are only deflecting without actually argumenting why it is.

We have the 4th best franchise winning % since 1999 + a SB win. We have been spoiled rotten as fans, so these last 2 years some can't stomach. 2020 was a good season with Rivers when we went 11-5 and made the playoffs. We rarely are bad, right now we are a mess but with a good QB we can figure it out. The Pats without Tom and Steelers without Benny are in the same boat. Packers are heading there with Rodgers looking old.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

Well, in the context of this thread, it's guys like Harbaugh and Peyton. Guys who have proven they can win and who have teams lined up to sign them.

 

Not saying we can't find a gem in a new, unseasoned coach, but that's not what we are discussing. Of course we can find a coach. That's not the question. The question is do we have to sign our 2nd choice? 3rd? 4th?

 

"This narrative you are pushing that the Colts are a bad organization is total nonsense."

It isn't. At all. That's why it's being brought up in the media. I lined up perfectly valid arguments for why this isn't the dream location for a high profile HC. You are only deflecting without actually argumenting why it is.

The media has to exaggerate whatever they can to generate attention to themselves. Of course it's fans such as yourself that give them credence. 

ESPN is nothing more than a sports rag mag. The only difference is they are on TV and the National Inquirer is on the grocery check out. 

 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

The media has to exaggerate whatever they can to generate attention to themselves. Of course it's fans such as yourself that give them credence. 

ESPN is nothing more than a sports rag mag. The only difference is they are on TV and the National Inquirer is on the grocery check out. 

 

I guess whenever anyone, fans, experts or media, has a negative opinion we just disregard now…. 

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We have the 4th best franchise winning % since 1999 + a SB win. We have been spoiled rotten as fans, so these last 2 years some can't stomach. 2020 was a good season with Rivers when we went 11-5 and made the playoffs. We rarely are bad, right now we are a mess but with a good QB we can figure it out. The Pats without Tom and Steelers without Benny are in the same boat. Packers are heading there with Rodgers looking old.

I have already disproven the “spoiled” narrative with historical evidence - there’s nothing wrong with wanting better after 6 years of average. The average GM tenure with the Colts is 5.3 years IIRC. 
 

Are the Pats, Steelers and Packers happy with their current situation? No? So everyone is spoiled for wanting to win? Why don’t you go and tell the owners that.