Why A Total Rebuild Is Coming - And How We Got In This Situation

[NewColtsFan]

23 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

For future reference, I am posting this after the Steelers game. Colts record is 4-7-1. 
 

I believe Jim Irsay fully intended to keep Chris Ballard around at the end of this season. He still might… However, that will depend on Irsay being okay with Ballard’s philosophy. It could also depend on whether or not he keeps Saturday too. I will explain my thoughts…

 

For me, the obvious issue with the 2022 Colts is that Frank Reich and Chris Ballard were building two different football teams and it finally caught up to the Colts. Reich wanted his version of the Ted Marchibroda K-Gun and Chris Ballard wanted his version of Wisconsin smashmouth. 
 

It’s the old square pegs and round holes analogy. 
 

Ballard wants larger body receivers who can block. Reich’s offense requires elite route runners who can fly. Who is wrong here? Both, because they were not on the same page. Ballard drafted his vision of the team. Reich installed his vision of the offense. That will never work. The playbook needs to to be built around the players. It was not. The vision needs to be shared. It was not. 
 

This team has the personnel to be a very good smashmouth team. Meaning a lot of 21 and 22 personnel sets. The team is missing a true fullback though. But that’s not too challenging to find.
 

Chris Ballard and Jeff Saturday have the same mindset. Unfortunately they are using Reich’s playbook. It’s near impossible to create a new playbook midseason. So they are screwed there. Also, I don’t think Ballard is a huge fan of hiring Jeff Saturday… So there is that too. 
 

Jim Irsay needs to be very careful how he proceeds, because hiring a GM and coach combination that wants to completely change the defensive philosophy will set this franchise back another 2-3 years. Bringing in a GM and coach with 3-4 defensive aspirations would be ridiculous. 
 

This team has a lot of talent. A right-minded coach, could quickly turn this team around in less than 2 years. The next coaching staff needs to install an offense that maximizes the players abilities. If they come in with an ideology that doesn’t fit the players then we will see more of the same as this season. 
 

Also, Colts fans might want to start watching film on Will Levis. That marriage is looking more and more possible as the days go by. His ceiling is Josh Allen. However, his floor is Tim Couch. 

I don’t think a rebuild is very likely.   I say that freely admitting I’ve been wrong more this year than any year in my 10.5 years as a member.  
 

But this is my thinking. 
 

1.  Most important, I don’t think Irsay is ready to declare a rebuild.   He can’t sell that.   There were LOTS of Steeler fans in Lucas Oil Monday night.   Bad for Irsay.  
 

2.   I don’t think Ballard wants a rebuild.  I think he still believes in what he’s built.   That said,  I think CB is no better than 50/50 to stay, perhaps less. 
 

3.  Even if Ballard leaves, with Irsay wanting to salvage what he’s invested these last 6 years, I think Ballard’s replacement is already in the building.  I think Irsay would want to hire either Ed Dodds or Morocco Brown.  These two guys are most responsible for helping Ballard build the Colts.  Both have had GM interviews with other NFL teams.   Now, one might turn it down,  but I’m not sure both would? 
 

I think the franchise has too much invested in the current team to do a rebuild.   Now that might change in 24 or 25,  but by then I think a rebuild might be obvious to all.  So I think you may have the right idea,  but perhaps a year or two too soon. 

[AKB]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t think a rebuild is very likely.   I say that freely admitting I’ve been wrong more this year than any year in my 10.5 years as a member.  
 

But this is my thinking. 
 

1.  Most important, I don’t think Irsay is ready to declare a rebuild.   He can’t sell that.   There were LOTS of Steeler fans in Lucas Oil Monday night.   Bad for Irsay.  
 

2.   I don’t think Ballard wants a rebuild.  I think he still believes in what he’s built.   That said,  I think CB is no better than 50/50 to stay, perhaps less. 
 

3.  Even if Ballard leaves, with Irsay wanting to salvage what he’s invested these last 6 years, I think Ballard’s replacement is already in the building.  I think Irsay would want to hire either Ed Dodds or Morocco Brown.  These two guys are most responsible for helping Ballard build the Colts.  Both have had GM interviews with other NFL teams.   Now, one might turn it down,  but I’m not sure both would? 
 

I think the franchise has too much invested in the current team to do a rebuild.   Now that might change in 24 or 25,  but by then I think a rebuild might be obvious to all.  So I think you may have the right idea,  but perhaps a year or two too soon. 

it might not be a full rebuild but its gonna get close to it. 

 

I think we keep our key guys.

 

Nelson

Leonard

Taylor

Pittman

Grover

Buck

 

imo, those 6 are locked in.

 

I think we have a few key players that are going to develop into the next core, or be an addition to it

 

Pierce

Raimann ? (maybe...)

Cross

Blackmon (maybe...)

Thomas II (needs to keep developing, but very promising late rd rookie)

Woods

 

 

To be honest, this last draft isn't that bad. I don't think we are looking at a full rebuild, but we have premium spots without a starter, or at least a question mark at the position. And then, we have many spots without good depth. 

 

 

[indykmj]

17 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Yeah. I appreciate the outside the box thinking, but I have to respectfully disagree with this idea that smash mouth football is the future.

 

Have you seen WR contracts recently? Or QB contracts? Does that bubble suddenly burst? I doubt it.

 

Or how does a player like Malik Willis, a perfect fit for that style of football, fall to the 3rd round?

 

I mean...BAL is supposedly leading this revolution and they don't even want to pay the QB, who is the prototype.

 

It's a passing league, where nearly the entire league passes more than they run (except for a couple of teams). And it's basically sponsored by sports betting. I can't speak for everyone, but many fans want to see offense, see their team score points and/or their fantasy players score TDs. The actual players want to score points, accrue stats and get paid. 

 

For it to revert back to the old style would take a seismic shift...like a threepeat or something. And IMO, it would be a bad product. We actually saw some of that this season. 

 

And while the NFL might not dictate how teams run their offense, they can certainly make it so that passing is far more advantageous (as they have been). 

 

 

 This post says it all....and anyone who can't or won't acknowledge and accept it

  (unfortunately Ballard) is just stuck in the past.

[indykmj]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t think a rebuild is very likely.   I say that freely admitting I’ve been wrong more this year than any year in my 10.5 years as a member.  
 

But this is my thinking. 
 

1.  Most important, I don’t think Irsay is ready to declare a rebuild.   He can’t sell that.   There were LOTS of Steeler fans in Lucas Oil Monday night.   Bad for Irsay.  
 

2.   I don’t think Ballard wants a rebuild.  I think he still believes in what he’s built.   That said,  I think CB is no better than 50/50 to stay, perhaps less. 
 

3.  Even if Ballard leaves, with Irsay wanting to salvage what he’s invested these last 6 years, I think Ballard’s replacement is already in the building.  I think Irsay would want to hire either Ed Dodds or Morocco Brown.  These two guys are most responsible for helping Ballard build the Colts.  Both have had GM interviews with other NFL teams.   Now, one might turn it down,  but I’m not sure both would? 
 

I think the franchise has too much invested in the current team to do a rebuild.   Now that might change in 24 or 25,  but by then I think a rebuild might be obvious to all.  So I think you may have the right idea,  but perhaps a year or two too soon. 

So,,,,throw a huge FA offer at Derek Carr....? 

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, indykmj said:

 

 This post says it all....and anyone who can't or won't acknowledge and accept it

  (unfortunately Ballard) is just stuck in the past.

So why is scoring way down with all of these great receivers running around.  Those college offenses are really working.  Lol

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, indykmj said:

So,,,,throw a huge FA offer at Derek Carr....? 

He’s not a FA.  Need to do some research before posting.  It helps when trying to support an argument.

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

It's a cluster ......It is funny that people that have been attacking me for years on  my views about Ballard's drafting/ team building , the D scheme, Nelson, Leonard have all gone silent. Moose knew nothing, he was a hater and negative, watch his draft picks wil flourish.....I could go on. I don't know the X's and O's like a lot on tis board but zi mne years ago this team would not win a super owl jnder Ballard and I have been on record as saying so. If I was a top end coach, I would not come to Indy. All of our cap is in the wrong places. No elite skill players. The guys coming due for contracts, I am tempted to let walk. I am calling for a total rebuild. To think that we are a player and/or qb away is ludicrous. Make some serious cuts this off season and trade any player that still has value.

I expect the Colts to do better once we get a LT and a QB.  I think Ballard finally got around to adding pieces that needed to be added for a long time....Woods, Ogletree, and even Granson are more dynamic than the Doyle/MAC combo we had when everybody said we were a SB roster.  We've got PC coming back from Injury and now Pierce to add to Pitt...where before we had Pascal and a bunch of nobodies when everybody said we had a SB roster.  People thought Hines was important.   JT > Mack, when everybody praised Mack as near elite, LOL.

 

However, these youngsters still do not make us a SB roster, they may never take the next step.  But it was obvious who Doyle, MAC, Pascal, et AL were when they were playing with Rivers and Wentz.  WE WERE NOT CLOSE.  It was great coaching and play calling by a HC who understood what he had in talent is what got us into playoff contention.  Now he gets fired just as there is more talent on the roster then their ever has been...but still too young to show up in the W/L column.  Not to mention a steady decline in QB and LT talent since Rivers and AC left.

 

A team can't rebuild with only first round picks.  There need to be 2nd and 3rd round picks.  SO if we simply replace the new kids with more 2nd and 3rd round talent, its a push. 

 

 No, not a blow up and rebuild.  I think we need to build off of what we have now.  The rebuild should have happened a few years ago instead of going with the band aid QBs and injured LTs that required good coaching to over achieve considering the limited talent on the roster then...when everybody said the roster was good. but being held back by bad coaching....L......O.......L.

 

The talent on the roster is much better then what it has been in years.  They are just young.  Of course, we still need a LT and a QB, and those are two big vacancies that drag the entire offense down.  I suspect Ballard knows this and will address it this offseason....if he's still around.

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

it might not be a full rebuild but its gonna get close to it. 

 

I think we keep our key guys.

 

Nelson

Leonard

Taylor

Pittman

Grover

Buck

 

imo, those 6 are locked in.

 

I think we have a few key players that are going to develop into the next core, or be an addition to it

 

Pierce

Raimann ? (maybe...)

Cross

Blackmon (maybe...)

Thomas II (needs to keep developing, but very promising late rd rookie)

Woods

 

 

To be honest, this last draft isn't that bad. I don't think we are looking at a full rebuild, but we have premium spots without a starter, or at least a question mark at the position. And then, we have many spots without good depth. 

 

 

Yes, the last draft addressed the issues, but he problem is that the three most important spots are still big question marks.  QB, LT, Flanker.   And even EDGE since Yannick is a short timer and Paye seems to be more of a LDE.

 

Compare what we have now to what we had when we were actually good.....PM, Tarik, Marvin....Then Luck, AC, TY....and you can see that we are not very close and have not been very close to being a perennial playoff team for a long time.

[bluephantom87]

21 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Just a little enlightenment for you.  Michigan is the number one team in the country and they play smash mouth ground and pound football.  Kentucky is the only major college football team running a pro style offense.  That has been widely reported and Will Levis is their quarterback.  He is tall,big,quick release, strong armed drop back quarterback.  He can run but he is primarily a drop back passer like Josh Allen. Those are the facts.  Just saying.

 

 Enlighten me? Did you even READ the post? I was speaking on the fact that the NFL has turned into a PASSING league with the rules being setup to promote that. I talked about more colleges having DYNAMIC wrs with DUAL threat qbs getting them the ball which in turn from that aspect alone (the dual threat qb) puts a lot of pressure on opposing defenses. Some NOW call this "pro style" because of the multiple receiver sets leaning more to the passing game. Now if you want to get technical about what "pro style" is I'll let you have that because my point was about the passing game in college. Take even Alabama who has gone from churning out rbs to now being a wide receiver pipeline. Go figure.

 

I HIGHLY doubt that KENTUCKY is the ONLY team in the NATION running a traditional or as you say "pro style" type of offense with the standard drop back type of qb such as Will Levis. Maybe they're the most COVERED because of Levis's talent. Keep in mind there are HUNDREDS of college football teams between D1 and 3. As far as getting TECHNICAL Michigan is NOT the number one team in the nation nor have they EVER been ranked that high all season. Don't use that to back your ground and pound argument. Running the ball is a Harbaugh staple no matter what team he helms. Up until just last year he was considered meh in his mutiple season term at Michigan BECAUSE of his ground and pound offense that couldn't keep up with some of the more EXPLOSIVE offenses once the Wolverines fell behind.

 

So your FACTS are a little misleading... Just saying. 

[richard pallo]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes, the last draft addressed the issues, but he problem is that the three most important spots are still big question marks.  QB, LT, Flanker.   And even EDGE since Yannick is a short timer and Paye seems to be more of a LDE.

 

Compare what we have now to what we had when we were actually good.....PM, Tarik, Marvin....Then Luck, AC, TY....and you can see that we are not very close and have not been very close to being a perennial playoff team for a long time.

I don’t understand all the banging on Yannick.   He seems to be the punching bag this year on the defense.  Gus wanted him.  We knew his shortcomings when he was signed.  He’s not strong against the run or setting the edge.  He was brought in to help with the pass rush.  He leads the team in sacks or is tied I’m not sure.  Kwity was supposed to set the edge and he’s hurt and misses a lot of time.  I would be more worried about his long term availability.  If Gus stays it’s easy to see him wanting Yannick to return.  Like I said.  I don’t understand all the banging on the man.  He is performing as we were hoping he would.

[Nevbot]

13 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I don’t understand all the banging on Yannick.   He seems to be the punching bag this year on the defense.  Gus wanted him.  We knew his shortcomings when he was signed.  He’s not strong against the run or setting the edge.  He was brought in to help with the pass rush.  He leads the team in sacks or is tied I’m not sure.  Kwity was supposed to set the edge and he’s hurt and misses a lot of time.  I would be more worried about his long term availability.  If Gus stays it’s easy to see him wanting Yannick to return.  Like I said.  I don’t understand all the banging on the man.  He is performing as we were hoping he would.

Agreed.  He is exactly who we thought he would be, and it looks like he will actually exceed his expected sack total of 10 for the season.  Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up closer to 12-13 sacks to end the year which if perfectly acceptable and worthy of bringing him back on an upper 30th% in pay for situation pass rushers.  Doubt anyone willingly comes back to this team after this season though.  We will only be able to retain players that are under contract and obtain players that are drafted or overpaid for in FA.  Nobody wants this smoke right now

[throwing BBZ]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I don’t understand all the banging on Yannick.   He seems to be the punching bag this year on the defense.  Gus wanted him.  We knew his shortcomings when he was signed.  He’s not strong against the run or setting the edge.  He was brought in to help with the pass rush.  He leads the team in sacks or is tied I’m not sure.  Kwity was supposed to set the edge and he’s hurt and misses a lot of time.  I would be more worried about his long term availability.  If Gus stays it’s easy to see him wanting Yannick to return.  Like I said.  I don’t understand all the banging on the man.  He is performing as we were hoping he would.

 

  Since Saturday got here he has been playing the run better and has been playing well. Before that he WAS NOT getting hits/hurries to the level he was brought here to do. Failing to pressure the QB AND being a seive against the run made him pretty bad. So NOT someone i would have at all wanted back.

I wish him good health and hope to see him play to his Recent level. 
 

[DougDew]

40 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I don’t understand all the banging on Yannick.   He seems to be the punching bag this year on the defense.  Gus wanted him.  We knew his shortcomings when he was signed.  He’s not strong against the run or setting the edge.  He was brought in to help with the pass rush.  He leads the team in sacks or is tied I’m not sure.  Kwity was supposed to set the edge and he’s hurt and misses a lot of time.  I would be more worried about his long term availability.  If Gus stays it’s easy to see him wanting Yannick to return.  Like I said.  I don’t understand all the banging on the man.  He is performing as we were hoping he would.

I didn't say he was bad.  He's not Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis in terms of being a constant irritant to OTs.

 

Comparing our roster to the rosters we had when we were a perennial playoff team, and the spots of PM, MH, Tarik, Freeney/Mathis.....then Luck, AC, TY, Mathis again....and our players of (BandAid), Fisher/Raimann, Pascal/Pierce, Yannick/Paye...and you can see the obvious dropoff in talent.   And it didn't just happen this year.  We've been playing with that kind of talent for a few years now and have gotten coached up into being a close playoff team.

 

I'd take a HOF quality player at any of those positions over any player we have now.  I would not be concerned about finding a HOF quality G for example. 

 

We'll have a TOP 10 pick.  Its not a given that it should be used on a QB.  I'd replace Yannick in a second if that player was there, provided other college players at the other positions weren't as talented.

[throwing BBZ]

 

 Rebuild?
 Irsay was demanding that Colts be All-In, with mind and body. I believe we are getting that again NOW. 
 I also have to believe he will be all-in to get the Bears pick, most likely at 1 or 2.
 And i think he will want our next HC to be an Offense guru! Someone up to the challenge of out scoriing the best QB's.
 I am very hopefull about Raimann. By mid next season he just could be pretty solid. This is certainly a Huge deal.
 Obeyidengo ?? haha, is looking stout out on the edge. Another Big deal.
  A solid RG and a running/quick flinging/thinking QB and we could be right back in the thick of things.

[#12.]

I don't see a rebuild at all.  

 

They will sell out for the QB, give up whatever it takes, and then Ballard and the front office will have to earn their money for a few years in free agency, earn their money finding Kenny and Glowinski types to make up the difference.

 

Following Jeff's timeout debacle and likely end of season flame out, Irsay will hopefully put the coaching search back on Ballard.  

 

 

 

 

[ShuteAt168]

Lots of well-stated opinions in this thread. Interesting to read. 

[Aaron86]

I don't get the thought process of getting a LT over a QB in the draft. Raimann to me has been decent. I think he just needs time to get better. Why draft a unknow? 

If Ballard is let go I have this feeling we are going to promote from inside. This team is not far. I love Leonard but I would seriously think about a trade if it was offered. Our linebackers have been pretty good outside of the turnovers. Same goes for Nelson. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t think a rebuild is very likely.   I say that freely admitting I’ve been wrong more this year than any year in my 10.5 years as a member.  
 

But this is my thinking. 
 

1.  Most important, I don’t think Irsay is ready to declare a rebuild.   He can’t sell that.   There were LOTS of Steeler fans in Lucas Oil Monday night.   Bad for Irsay.  
 

2.   I don’t think Ballard wants a rebuild.  I think he still believes in what he’s built.   That said,  I think CB is no better than 50/50 to stay, perhaps less. 
 

3.  Even if Ballard leaves, with Irsay wanting to salvage what he’s invested these last 6 years, I think Ballard’s replacement is already in the building.  I think Irsay would want to hire either Ed Dodds or Morocco Brown.  These two guys are most responsible for helping Ballard build the Colts.  Both have had GM interviews with other NFL teams.   Now, one might turn it down,  but I’m not sure both would? 
 

I think the franchise has too much invested in the current team to do a rebuild.   Now that might change in 24 or 25,  but by then I think a rebuild might be obvious to all.  So I think you may have the right idea,  but perhaps a year or two too soon. 

 

Why would anybody want to hire the under studies of a man that has been as bad as Ballard has been at his job??? 

And if your going to say Dodds & Brown are highly regarded in the NFL community I'll just say so is/was Frank Reich. You never hear of a ill word mentioned about Frank but he was fired mid season like he should have been, in fact it should have been done last season.

 

Since I've been right about most things here for years I'll clue you in what I think....Ballard & Saturday are toast if irsay can make a big hire like a Sean Payton/Harbaugh etc... in which they will probably want full control, especially Payton.

But I doubt Irsay will be able to lure dudes that can have their pick of NFL teams to come to.

So then Saturday's chances of coming back increase and even Ballard since its doubtful.someone proven and with better resume than Ballard will come.....and its very appealing to irsay that he knows with Ballard and his buddy Saturday he gets to meddle and call the shots all he wants. Because he's Failed Ballards lost the right to run the team the way he wants or did the way before irsay's frustration started to show with his failures. And don't think irsay doesn't like being a hands on owner. 

 

I don't see Dodds or Brown taking over and I certainly hope not. 

 

[lilolemoi]

Buckner, Flowers, Rodgers, Woods, Stewart, Pittman, Pierce, Speed, Gilmore, Jackson, McLeod, Ngakoue, Odenigbo, Okereke, Ryan — I’d keep these players next year. Anyone else can be cut or traded. Total rebuild with a new GM.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Why would anybody want to hire the under studies of a man that has been as bad as Ballard has been at his job??? 

And if your going to say Dodds & Brown are highly regarded in the NFL community I'll just say so is/was Frank Reich. You never hear of a ill word mentioned about Frank but he was fired mid season like he should have been, in fact it should have been done last season.

 

Since I've been right about most things here for years I'll clue you in what I think....Ballard & Saturday are toast if irsay can make a big hire like a Sean Payton/Harbaugh etc... in which they will probably want full control, especially Payton.

But I doubt Irsay will be able to lure dudes that can have their pick of NFL teams to come to.

So then Saturday's chances of coming back increase and even Ballard since its doubtful.someone proven and with better resume than Ballard will come.....and its very appealing to irsay that he knows with Ballard and his buddy Saturday he gets to meddle and call the shots all he wants. Because he's Failed Ballards lost the right to run the team the way he wants or did the way before irsay's frustration started to show with his failures. And don't think irsay doesn't like being a hands on owner. 

 

I don't see Dodds or Brown taking over and I certainly hope not. 

 

Sorry to break it to you, but Reich and Ballard are still highly thought of.   Maybe not be this fan base, but certainly within the NFL community.    I’m saying that by what I read on websites like NFL.com, ESPN.com,  The Athletic.com and a new one called The 33rd Team, which I’ll be writing more about soon.
 

One bad season does not ruin reputations that have been well earned over years.   And Dodds and Brown don’t suffer simply via Guilt By Association.   That’s what angry fans do.  
 

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. 

[crazycolt1]

I don't think a rebuild is going to happen.  We have top quality talent all over this roster. The only thing holding us back this season was the collapse of the offensive line.  This narrative that we need to fire and cut a bunch of people is asinine.  

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, Aaron86 said:

I don't get the thought process of getting a LT over a QB in the draft. Raimann to me has been decent. I think he just needs time to get better. Why draft a unknow? 

If Ballard is let go I have this feeling we are going to promote from inside. This team is not far. I love Leonard but I would seriously think about a trade if it was offered. Our linebackers have been pretty good outside of the turnovers. Same goes for Nelson. 

An LT only makes sense if the QBs at the top are overrated players with lots of risks.  Generally, I don't remember any LT that rated as a top 15 pick in pre draft analysis ever turning out to be a real bust.   Their abilities seem to be well identified while in college and one with that level of talent and production that affords him a top 15 pick usually steps right in and plays well as a rookie.  They are valuable positions and a pretty safe pick.

 

There are still risks with Raimann.  But if he ascends nicely then try him as RT and slide Smith over to RG and now you have a near elite oline with no more cap expense than what you basically had this year.  I don't know what a rookie top 15 LT costs cap wise but Pryor's $6M will roll off no doubt.

 

Its a pretty deep QB draft but the guys at the top all seem to have some question marks.  JMO.

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

An LT only makes sense if the QBs at the top are overrated players with lots of risks.  Generally, I don't remember any LT that rated as a top 15 pick in pre draft analysis ever turning out to be a real bust.   Their abilities seem to be well identified while in college and one with that level of talent and production that affords him a top 15 pick usually steps right in and plays well as a rookie.  They are valuable positions and a pretty safe pick.

 

There are still risks with Raimann.  But if he ascends nicely then try him as RT and slide Smith over to RG and now you have a near elite oline with no more cap expense than what you basically had this year.  I don't know what a rookie top 15 LT costs cap wise but Pryor's $6M will roll off no doubt.

 

Its a pretty deep QB draft but the guys at the top all seem to have some question marks.  JMO.

People still are enthralled with the idea of moving Smith to guard after all of these years playing RT.  And he’s done very well there.  Makes no sense to me.  He made the switch successfully.  If it isn’t broke don’t fix it.  Could easily have two issues instead of one.

[Fluke_33]

On 11/29/2022 at 11:54 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Even if Ballard leaves, with Irsay wanting to salvage what he’s invested these last 6 years, I think Ballard’s replacement is already in the building.  I think Irsay would want to hire either Ed Dodds or Morocco Brown.  These two guys are most responsible for helping Ballard build the Colts.  Both have had GM interviews with other NFL teams.   Now, one might turn it down,  but I’m not sure both would? 

Excellent post.  I will just say that to the quoted that I think Dodds and Brown are very loyal to Ballard and i do not think they would accept a promotion if Ballard is fired.

 

I do not think Ballard is at risk.  I think Ballard is an excellent evaluator of talent.  That isn't all that is needed as a GM but it's a good start.  He is not perfect, but he has gained a lot of experience and I still believe he can build a championship team here.  I would hate to see him go.

[Aaron86]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

An LT only makes sense if the QBs at the top are overrated players with lots of risks.  Generally, I don't remember any LT that rated as a top 15 pick in pre draft analysis ever turning out to be a real bust.   Their abilities seem to be well identified while in college and one with that level of talent and production that affords him a top 15 pick usually steps right in and plays well as a rookie.  They are valuable positions and a pretty safe pick.

 

There are still risks with Raimann.  But if he ascends nicely then try him as RT and slide Smith over to RG and now you have a near elite oline with no more cap expense than what you basically had this year.  I don't know what a rookie top 15 LT costs cap wise but Pryor's $6M will roll off no doubt.

 

Its a pretty deep QB draft but the guys at the top all seem to have some question marks.  JMO.

I could get behind brining in a LT if we do not like or can not get QB we like. But this QB situation has got to stop. Its absolutely getting crazy. They have to do something because right now we are just wasting time. This team has some really good talent and we are missing opportunity's by chasing has been QB's. I really thought Ryan could bring some stability like Rivers even if he was going to struggle to push the ball down field. But we need the threat of going deep because right now teams are daring us to go over the top. 

That said I complety agree with you on the LT. Its just frustrating to watch this team when you know they are capable of so much more.

[Fluke_33]

9 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

Buckner, Flowers, Rodgers, Woods, Stewart, Pittman, Pierce, Speed, Gilmore, Jackson, McLeod, Ngakoue, Odenigbo, Okereke, Ryan — I’d keep these players next year. Anyone else can be cut or traded. Total rebuild with a new GM.

Not a Paye fan?  I think he's in our top 5 players overall.

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Excellent post.  I will just say that to the quoted that I think Dodds and Brown are very loyal to Ballard and i do not think they would accept a promotion if Ballard is fired.

 

I do not think Ballard is at risk.  I think Ballard is an excellent evaluator of talent.  That isn't all that is needed as a GM but it's a good start.  He is not perfect, but he has gained a lot of experience and I still believe he can build a championship team here.  I would hate to see him go.

I do not think Ballard is going anywhere.  I think Jim still believes he’s one of the top GM’s.

[lilolemoi]

9 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Not a Paye fan?  I think he's in our top 5 players overall

 

Fans are talking about making a deal with the Bears to move up in the draft. Paye worked well in Eberflus’ system, better than Bradley’s, so I could see a trade happen there. Kwity wanted PAYED, so maybe Chicago will. He doesn’t seem happy now.

[lilolemoi]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I do not think Ballard is going anywhere.  I think Jim still believes he’s one of the top GM’s.

 

Ballard seemed blindsided by the Saturday hire, and I don’t think he was brought on for his coaching ability. Saturday was hired mostly because of his familiarity with the organization and his friendship with the owner, meaning Irsay trusts him. That sounds like Irsay doesn’t trust Ballard anymore, especially after firing a coach mid season. Nobody’s job is secure then.

[DougDew]

46 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

People still are enthralled with the idea of moving Smith to guard after all of these years playing RT.  And he’s done very well there.  Makes no sense to me.  He made the switch successfully.  If it isn’t broke don’t fix it.  Could easily have two issues instead of one.

Good veteran players move around the line as they travel to new teams or new players are added to the current teams.  If he's making $12 -$15M a year, he should be able to do it just fine.    Why not have a better RG...a push at RT...and an elite LT with no more money spent than what we have now?

 

While Raimann is getting better, his likely landing spot is not elite, and we still need to find a decent RG.  That would probably end up with less overall talent across the entire oline compared to my suggestion, just to keep Smith at RT.  I don't get that.

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, Aaron86 said:

I could get behind brining in a LT if we do not like or can not get QB we like. But this QB situation has got to stop. Its absolutely getting crazy. They have to do something because right now we are just wasting time. This team has some really good talent and we are missing opportunity's by chasing has been QB's. I really thought Ryan could bring some stability like Rivers even if he was going to struggle to push the ball down field. But we need the threat of going deep because right now teams are daring us to go over the top. 

That said I complety agree with you on the LT. Its just frustrating to watch this team when you know they are capable of so much more.

I agree.  Don't pass on the QB if he's the guy and he's within reach.  My idea is based on the top QBs prospects not really being the guy.

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Ballard seemed blindsided by the Saturday hire, and I don’t think he was brought on for his coaching ability. Saturday was hired mostly because of his familiarity with the organization and his friendship with the owner, meaning Irsay trusts him. That sounds like Irsay doesn’t trust Ballard anymore, especially after firing a coach mid season. Nobody’s job is secure then.

Was he blindsided or just showing disappointment that it came down to a firing.  That it had to be done.  I think Saturday was brought on to uplift the team and move back to Ryan to try to save the season. I think with Brady already fired Jim had no confidence in the remaining offensive coaches to be head coach and turned to Jeff.  It’s no secret the Colts have been trying to get Saturday on the coaching staff for quite some time.  Reich was done when he moved to Sam so early in the season for the rest of the season.  Threw in the towel and Jim was angry with that move.   I think Ballard was angry as well.  Reich knew he was in big trouble.

[richard pallo]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Good veteran players move around the line as they travel to new teams or new players are added to the current teams.  If he's making $12 -$15M a year, he should be able to do it just fine.    Why not have a better RG...a push at RT...and an elite LT with no more money spent than what we have now?

 

While Raimann is getting better, his likely landing spot is not elite, and we still need to find a decent RG.  That would probably end up with less overall talent across the entire oline compared to my suggestion, just to keep Smith at RT.  I don't get that.

You have no guarantee Smith will be the answer at RG or we have a push at RT and an elite LT.  All very much unproven.  Three positions now up in the air.  Smith stays where he is.  One less position to worry about.  Very confident that’s what they will do.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I don't think we need a total rebuild, we just need the right QB and right Coach. + a playmaker that can change games. 3 things is all we need in reality but they are a huge 3 things. Can Ballard get it right? That is the question.

[lilolemoi]

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Was he blindsided or just showing disappointment that it came down to a firing.  That it had to be done.  I think Saturday was brought on to uplift the team and move back to Ryan to try to save the season. I think with Brady already fired Jim had no confidence in the remaining offensive coaches to be head coach and turned to Jeff.  It’s no secret the Colts have been trying to get Saturday on the coaching staff for quite some time.  Reich was done when he moved to Sam so early in the season for the rest of the season.  Threw in the towel and Jim was angry with that move.   I think Ballard was angry as well.  Reich knew he was in big trouble.

 

Ian Rappaport and Tom Pelissero reported for NFL that Ballard was opposed to the move. I think he had no say in the matter once Irsay, described as “hellbent”, made up his mind.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-hired-jeff-saturday-as-interim-head-coach-against-advice-from-colts-to

 

I also don’t think Reich benched Ryan without talking to Irsay and Ballard first. I think he wanted to play Foles, and fans were already bewildered by his signing with Ehlinger as the backup. Reich was then forced to start him and stake his job on the line as he was running out of scapegoats after Wentz then Blankenship then Brady. That weakness is what lost him the locker room. I doubt happy talk from Saturday fixes that.

 

Ironically, Matt Ryan is the closest thing the Colts have to leadership right now and the fans hate his guts lol. Whether he starts next year or not is debatable, but I don’t see them cutting him. Maybe he’ll be the backup QB. If he rallies the team this year, maybe even HC? But I see Ehlinger going to another team as a backup and drafting a QB in the first round.

[NewColtsFan]

48 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I do not think Ballard is going anywhere.  I think Jim still believes he’s one of the top GM’s.

This is my guess too.   But what if Ballard wants out?   What if the next head coach wants control that cuts into Ballard’s?   Like control of the roster or control of the draft?   Those would likely be deal breakers for CB. 

[chad72]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

This is my guess too.   But what if Ballard wants out?   What if the next head coach wants control that cuts into Ballard’s?   Like control of the roster or control of the draft?   Those would likely be deal breakers for CB. 

 

One thing is for sure. Ed Dodds and Morocco Brown will get more interviews and unlike years past, I feel coaches and GM candidates that have been with the Colts might seek different environments in this off season. Some, like Bubba and Gus, might want to build on what they have already accomplished and even take parallel jobs, IMO.

 

All our offensive coaches, they might be stuck with fewer options.  

[throwing BBZ]

43 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

You have no guarantee Smith will be the answer at RG or we have a push at RT and an elite LT.  All very much unproven.  Three positions now up in the air.  Smith stays where he is.  One less position to worry about.  Very confident that’s what they will do.

 

 I have wanted Smith at RG. He was an absolute Rock last game.
Dallas will be another big time test for sure.
 Saturday needs to pull Ryan over just before the game starts, put Ryan in a headlock and give him a nose full of smelling salts. Wake that old ______ up for the start of the game!!!
 We don't need an "Elite" LT. A good one with a QB that has all the tools is enough.

[tncoltsfan57]

I've got what I'm sure is a very unpopular opinion and that is Andrew Luck didn't retire, he quit and he quit at the begin of the season you expect to reach the playoffs! You retire at the end of the season or a career ending injury not a high ankle sprain. His "quitting" set us back 5+ years at least. I get ill when people say Luck "retired". Again just my very unpopular opinion. I don't know what the Colts need to do to get back on track there just seems to be so many issues on both sides of the ball and special teams I'm afraid it will take us another 5+ years to get back to playoff status. 

[masterlock]

On 11/29/2022 at 12:03 AM, BlueShoe said:

This team has the personnel to be a very good smashmouth team. Meaning a lot of 21 and 22 personnel sets. The team is missing a true fullback though. But that’s not too challenging to find.

Smashmouth? I really don't see Ballard's statement that football is won in the trenches as proof that he's trying to build a smash mouth roster, as that's more-or-less a true statement for ANY NFL team. It's hard to win in the NFL if you can't block or rush the passer--i.e., you're not good in the trenches. Ballard has said he prefers bigger ATHLETIC players, which does not preclude speed. Look at Paris Campbell (4.3-ish), Alec Pierce (4.4), Kyle Granson (more of a receiving TE), Shaq Leonard (not exactly "smash mouth"), Nick Cross (6' 212 lbs), Jonathan Taylor (physical, but not a "bruiser"), Jelani Woods (big, but not known for good blocking), etc.