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After 2 games was coaching and Oline scheme yhr problem?


Moosejawcolt
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I think after 2 games we r seeing what the issue with this team is. It totally falls on the Oline. It is the most expensive Oline in football and 20% of our cap is in that line. No offence can be successful if it invests 20% of your cap in an area that is graded as poor. People said it was scheme and Strausser. I have said all along, except for a moment of weakness, that Frank was not the issue and neither was thr scheme.  It was an over rated Oline and the lack of talent is the issue. Not power vs zone scheme.  Baldinger's videos show this Oline getting whipped at the point of attack. Saturday's, Ryan's and Park' recent comments, as veiled as they try to be, point to the Oline and lack of protection for the teams inability to push the ball deep. In Ballard we trust lol.

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think after 2 games we r seeing what the issue with this team is. It totally falls on the Oline. It is the most expensive Oline in football and 20% of our cap is in that line. No offence can be successful if it invests 20% of your cap in an area that is graded as poor. People said it was scheme and Strausser. I have said all along, except for a moment of weakness, that Frank was not the issue and neither was thr scheme.  It was an over rated Oline and the lack of talent is the issue. Not power vs zone scheme.  Baldinger's videos show this Oline getting whipped at the point of attack. Saturday's, Ryan's and Park' recent comments, as veiled as they try to be, point to the Oline and lack of protection for the teams inability to push the ball deep. In Ballard we trust lol.

Yeah you and everyone else trusted Ballard when that same oline was balling out so stop with the fake hatred…..

 

Q and Braden Smith are still good olinemen and Raimann is taking the required lumps to get to the next level.

 

since Strausser arrived the blocking has gone downhill……that is a fact as the stats play that out. 
 

That voice needs removed too just like Franks needed removed.

 

The defense has not gone downhill after losing Eberflus to the Bears as Gus’s guys have bought in - apparently nobody has bought in to Strausser

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1 hour ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

per espn ryan is ranked #10 brissett is 13, we have no rb in the top 10 and only one wr in the top 50. oline is ranked last. ballards roster on offense clearly has a talent problem.

Like I said ro all the Frank haters. Who would have done better given the talent on offence he has been given the last 5 years? He use to have a functional offensive line and made something out of nothing the last 5 years. Now the Oline has totally collapsed and now u r left with average talent. Oh and I don't see those RAS #'s translating to football players as of yet from his last draft.

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7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Like I said ro all the Frank haters. Who would have done better given the talent on offence he has been given the last 5 years? He use to have a functional offensive line and made something out of nothing the last 5 years. Now the Oline has totally collapsed and now u r left with average talent. Oh and I don't see those RAS #'s translating to football players as of yet from his last draft.

I can't wait until we beat the Steelers and you disappear again.  You're broken record nonsense gets old

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4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think after 2 games we r seeing what the issue with this team is. It totally falls on the Oline. It is the most expensive Oline in football and 20% of our cap is in that line. No offence can be successful if it invests 20% of your cap in an area that is graded as poor. People said it was scheme and Strausser. I have said all along, except for a moment of weakness, that Frank was not the issue and neither was thr scheme.  It was an over rated Oline and the lack of talent is the issue. Not power vs zone scheme.  Baldinger's videos show this Oline getting whipped at the point of attack. Saturday's, Ryan's and Park' recent comments, as veiled as they try to be, point to the Oline and lack of protection for the teams inability to push the ball deep. In Ballard we trust lol.

 

Your not gonna see a change this year, because you can't implement a new offense and scheme over a couple weeks. You also have the same coaches coaching the same way. It will take a whole offseason of OTAs and the preseason to just set up the foundation for a change to scheme and offense.

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6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think after 2 games we r seeing what the issue with this team is. It totally falls on the Oline. It is the most expensive Oline in football and 20% of our cap is in that line. No offence can be successful if it invests 20% of your cap in an area that is graded as poor. People said it was scheme and Strausser. I have said all along, except for a moment of weakness, that Frank was not the issue and neither was thr scheme.  It was an over rated Oline and the lack of talent is the issue. Not power vs zone scheme.  Baldinger's videos show this Oline getting whipped at the point of attack. Saturday's, Ryan's and Park' recent comments, as veiled as they try to be, point to the Oline and lack of protection for the teams inability to push the ball deep. In Ballard we trust lol.

Absolutely it boils down to coaching. Whether that’s Reich or Strausser could be debated,  but the talent is there

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

This is why most folks don't take you seriously.. lol...

  • Philly has top 5 O, and a top 5 D... 
    • we led most the game... 
  • Philly's D is #1 in INT, and #3 in sacks... 
    • did you expect the OL, or any OL, to look great against Philly?
  • Ryan isn't great, but he only had two games with 50+ QBRs in the 9 games with Frank... and had 9 INTs (1+ average/game)..  
    • Now Ryan has 2 straight games with 50+ QBRs... and zero INTs.. 
  • JT has one game with 100+ yards.. and only 1 TD (both in the first game of the season)..... with Frank...
    • Now, JT has a TD in each game, in the last two games... And is averaging 100+ ypg now...
    • JT, in the last two games, had his #1 longest run this year... and his #2... 

 

Sure.. the OL is still struggling... everyone knows it... are you going to create a thread every week? lol... blah, blah, blah... 

 

But,,,, the OL is averaging a full sack/game less, than with Frank.. And JT has had his best two games since G1... Does that obvious improvement not penetrate your grey matter? Guess not... 

 

And yes... Frank stunk... The team is obviously playing better now. 

 

K u say I can't be taken seriously. Tell what I am wrong about in the grand scheme of things??

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Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

K u say I can't be taken seriously. Tell what I am wrong about in the grand scheme of things??

 

First... address the points I listed. Don't dance, and shift the burden here.

 

You created the thread... It's your burden... So explain why the obvious points I listed are irrelevant.. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

First... address the points I listed. Don't dance, and shift the burden here.

 

You created the thread... It's your burden... So explain why the obvious points I listed are irrelevant.. 

1st Philly has an absolutely easy schedule. Hurts has been coming down tto earth with each passing game. Keep him in the pocket and he is below average which the Colts did. Thr league is catching on to hom and u r starting to c the regression.  The Philly D stats are  inflated as they have really played no offence to speak of. Thr offensive line played a horrible Vegas D line. Philly grabbed Suh and Joseph off the streets. Sure, the Colts looked good in the 1st quarter, but Suh and Joseph got their sea legs and proceeded to whip Rainmann,  Fries and Kelly. 

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11 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

1st Philly has an absolutely easy schedule. Hurts has been coming down tto earth with each passing game. Keep him in the pocket and he is below average which the Colts did. Thr league is catching on to hom and u r starting to c the regression.  The Philly D stats are  inflated as they have really played no offence to speak of. Thr offensive line played a horrible Vegas D line. Philly grabbed Suh and Joseph off the streets. Sure, the Colts looked good in the 1st quarter, but Suh and Joseph got their sea legs and proceeded to whip Rainmann,  Fries and Kelly. 

Hilarious..

Philly held MN's O to 7pts... held Dallas's O to 17pts. The two Os are top 10ish... 

Philly put 26 pts on Dallas, who has the #1 scoring defense...

 

What else you got?

 

Suh and Joseph are great vet depth NTs. And they signed both... Great, aggressive move, by Philly. To say they are not, is intellectual dishonesty. 

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Hilarious..

Philly held MN's O to 7pts... held Dallas's O to 17pts. The two Os are top 10ish... 

Philly put 26 pts on Dallas, who has the #1 scoring defense...

 

What else you got?

 

Suh and Joseph are great vet depth NTs. And they signed both... Great, aggressive move, by Philly. To say they are not, is intellectual dishonesty. 

I'll give e u Minny but  Dallas is an average team with the Dalas logo. Great vet NT's!!! So when they were signed u can honestly tell me u expected them to come in and whip our highest paid Oline? Come on.

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I'll give e u Minny but  Dallas is an average team with the Dalas logo. Great vet NT's!!! So when they were signed u can honestly tell me u expected them to come in and whip our highest paid Oline? Come on.

Actually, Dallas is better than MN... 

Do you actually follow the NFL?

Or just devote 100% of your time complaining lol

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9 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think after 2 games we r seeing what the issue with this team is. It totally falls on the Oline. It is the most expensive Oline in football and 20% of our cap is in that line. No offence can be successful if it invests 20% of your cap in an area that is graded as poor. People said it was scheme and Strausser. I have said all along, except for a moment of weakness, that Frank was not the issue and neither was thr scheme.  It was an over rated Oline and the lack of talent is the issue. Not power vs zone scheme.  Baldinger's videos show this Oline getting whipped at the point of attack. Saturday's, Ryan's and Park' recent comments, as veiled as they try to be, point to the Oline and lack of protection for the teams inability to push the ball deep. In Ballard we trust lol.

 

Nothing is new here. The Oline has been struggling. 

Yeah our offensive line has regressed since it's top level play. 

But to say "after 2 games we r seeing the issue with this team is" doesn't make sense because they've improved, at least from what i've seen, since saturday has been here. 

 

We have a rookie at LT, and a 7th round backup at RG. --> with almost no good depth, outside of an aging dennis kelly. 

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Yes, it was a huge problem, but not the only one. It’s not like you can fire your head coach who designed the scheme and called the plays and do a 180.  
 

OL is bad

QB is average at best(Truly I think he is terrible)

RB have been injured

TE are MIA

WRs are streaky. 
 

When you combine a bad play caller with a bad QB you will get bad results. Add a bad OL and your coach gets fired.  We have gotten rid of one and starting to see improvement. The new guy had zero experience calling plays, says something.

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Good Lord.  The misinformation spewed on this forum in the form of stats/facts/data warrants some sort of Information Monitoring like Twitter.  Over and over again...its non stop.  Misinformation abounds when it comes to anything that can be funneled into a Frank narrative.


Philly's defensive line ranking is IRRELEVANT.  Didn't we play a different dline than the dline that accumulated the stats?  Our opponent had Suh and Joseph...IOW, 50% different than the dline that has accumulated sack stats going into the game.  And we gave up less sacks because Jeff is a genius and Frank is a maroon?  LOL...No..we gave up less sacks because we went up against a dline that had 50% run stuffers. 

 

Ryan's 50 QBR ratings are also funstions of LVR, and a function of an oline that is likely improving.  It has improved during Ryan's absence because Smith has gotten back to normal (trending upward for weeks) and Nelson is improving.  And Raimann is also improving.  Better protection, better QBR...go figure.  Have each of them not improved their PFF grades?....Where are those facts?  And with the same "bad" oline coach.

 

JT?  Against LVR...and with an improving oline....improving with that same "bad" oline coach. 

 

The issue with Frank...according to this forum...was PLAYCALLING.  Lets not move the goal posts.  If its scheme, that is a deeper issue and an issue that involves Ballard.   A GM is not just going to sit idlily by and let his HC dictate what kind of offense the team has,  If so, then Ballard did not supply Frank with the proper talent needed by the HC.  Ballard and Reich were partners in this scheme.  OTOH, playcalling is on the coach.

 

Can you imagine, Ballard says nothing about scheme...but knows exactly the players Frank wants.  IOW, he has gotten Frank all of the players he wants, but Frank is too dumb to know how to use the players that he has asked Ballard to get him.  What a twisted sense of logic....all just to validate a two year long narrative.  

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Good Lord.  The misinformation spewed on this forum in the form of stats/facts/data warrants some sort of Information Monitoring like Twitter.  Over and over again...its non stop.  Misinformation abounds when it comes to anything that can be funneled into a Frank narrative.


Philly's defensive line ranking is IRRELEVANT.  Didn't we play a different dline than the dline that accumulated the stats?  Our opponent had Suh and Joseph...IOW, 50% different than the dline that has accumulated sack stats going into the game.  And we gave up less sacks because Jeff is a genius and Frank is a maroon?  LOL...No..we gave up less sacks because we went up against a dline that had 50% run stuffers. 

 

Ryan's 50 QBR ratings are also funstions of LVR, and a function of an oline that is likely improving.  It has improved during Ryan's absence because Smith has gotten back to normal (trending upward for weeks) and Nelson is improving.  And Raimann is also improving.  Better protection, better QBR...go figure.  Have each of them not improved their PFF grades?....Where are those facts?  And with the same "bad" oline coach.

 

JT?  Against LVR...and with an improving oline....improving with that same "bad" oline coach. 

 

The issue with Frank...according to this forum...was PLAYCALLING.  Lets not move the goal posts.  If its scheme, that is a deeper issue and an issue that involves Ballard.   A GM is not just going to sit idlily by and let his HC dictate what kind of offense the team has,  If so, then Ballard did not supply Frank with the proper talent needed by the HC.  Ballard and Reich were partners in this scheme.  OTOH, playcalling is on the coach.

 

Can you imagine, Ballard says nothing about scheme...but knows exactly the players Frank wants.  IOW, he has gotten Frank all of the players he wants, but Frank is too dumb to know how to use the players that he has asked Ballard to get him.  What a twisted sense of logic....all just to validate a two year long narrative.  

It scares me that I agree with you. I still put some of the problem on the O-line coaching, tho.

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2 hours ago, CoachLite said:

It scares me that I agree with you. I still put some of the problem on the O-line coaching, tho.


It’s like 1a., 1b. and 1c. - the ceiling of this roster on the offensive side was limited more by Frank, then limited by Strausser and OL coaching, then limited by Ballard in the fact that there are no extra gears this offense can get to with the roster construction.

 

Each one, by subtraction will have a limited incremental output in production.

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Definitely O-line. The Center, RG, and LT are all liabilities this year.

 

Coaching is the other big part as the offense got better almost instantly once Reich was gone.

 

However the O-line play is a compound issue because it’s related to talent, which falls on the shoulders of the GM.

 

The other big issue is QB play, which is another compound issue. Part of the reason the QB play isn’t great is because of the O-line play, and the other is the QBs in question just aren’t that good, which is another talent acquisition issue.

 

So surmise the issues on this team are due to 3 things:

-Coaching (pre-Saturday hiring)

-O-line play

-QB play

 

*Pass rush is an honorable mention

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On 11/27/2022 at 4:20 AM, EastStreet said:

Hilarious..

Philly held MN's O to 7pts... held Dallas's O to 17pts. The two Os are top 10ish... 

Philly put 26 pts on Dallas, who has the #1 scoring defense...

 

What else you got?

 

Suh and Joseph are great vet depth NTs. And they signed both... Great, aggressive move, by Philly. To say they are not, is intellectual dishonesty. 

The Eagles got destroyed on the ground against the Commanders and Roseman immediately made moves to improve. And they did. 
 

Our Oline sucks balls for the entire season - Ballard sits on his hands.

 

Not pointing fingers at you East, just using this to illustrate the fact that Ballard is also part of the problem. 
 

Letting Frank go was the right thing to do. He was bad at playcalling and (in my opinion) lost the team. But. Ballard hasn’t done enough to make this team a contender and he needs to go too. 

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I think its more obvious than ever. It all makes sense. I don't believe its the scheme or coaching (ready to be flamed). It wouldn't make sense to me, as we had the same coaching last year and blamed our sacks on Wentz (deserved) and had Taylor lead the league in rushing. 

 

I think it breaks down like this:

 

1: LT & Rg Rookies - the obvious, but rookies are gunna have warts starting out we all know that. I'm glad Saturday has said basically this is his OL for the rest of the year and let the rookies work out the growing pains.

 

2: Kelly regression - 2nd biggest issue for me. This isn't a one year issue too, his play has declined for the past 2 or 3 years now and its at the point of a problem. Seems to have mentally checked out this year as well.

 

3. Ryan struggling with protections and identifying pressure - This one surprised me, as a veteran QB I thought he would be much better at this coming over. IMO it has to be him making the calls and not the centre, as if it was the centre, than it probably was last year too, so I don't see how Kelly would have been fine with it forever, than all of a sudden not be able to read and make the correct calls.

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1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

The Eagles got destroyed on the ground against the Commanders and Roseman immediately made moves to improve. And they did. 
 

Our Oline sucks balls for the entire season - Ballard sits on his hands.

 

Not pointing fingers at you East, just using this to illustrate the fact that Ballard is also part of the problem. 
 

Letting Frank go was the right thing to do. He was bad at playcalling and (in my opinion) lost the team. But. Ballard hasn’t done enough to make this team a contender and he needs to go too. 

This is a bit disingenuous imo. Picking up a couple older DTs to rotate through on run downs (let alone run defending NTs) mid season, is exponentially easier than finding quality OL at any point of the year.

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1 minute ago, NorthernColt said:

This is a bit disingenuous imo. Picking up a couple older DTs to rotate through on run downs (let alone run defending NTs) mid season, is exponentially easier than finding quality OL at any point of the year.

There have been plenty of opportunities for Ballard to make moves. 
 

There have been LTs available as FAs and Corbett (RG) was reportedly up for grabs from the Panthers. 
 

Either way anything would have been better than Pryor and Pinter. 

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19 hours ago, chad72 said:


It’s like 1a., 1b. and 1c. - the ceiling of this roster on the offensive side was limited more by Frank, then limited by Strausser and OL coaching, then limited by Ballard in the fact that there are no extra gears this offense can get to with the roster construction.

 

Each one, by subtraction will have a limited incremental output in production.

 

  The group think that Pryor would show up in the best shape of his life and take advantage of an Awesome opportunity was a turd show. They thought they knew the guy! He took the $6M opportunity and chose to use the off season to sop up biscuits and gravy. Just a huge FAIL on his part, and a real let down to his unit and TEAM. Poor Pinter was physically out matched and mentally unprepared to play. Another major assessment Fail by our coaches and Ballard. 

 Fries has enough physicality for RG but there are obvious mental error growing pains. People clamor for Glow, and even his middling play would have been a real upgrade. He wallowed for 4 years trying to become the player he became. Fries, IMO, has every bit or more of his ceiling. lol

 Raimann, has a big powerful upper body like Denico Autry. If ever there is baptism by fire the kid is knee deep in it. Watt, Parsons, D Hunter, Bosa...

hahaha!  Wow! 

 Ballard looks worse because Campbell was a total miss for 3 years. And Hines looked at as a #2 RB rather than the gadget player he is was again, a bad move.
 Ballard and Reich counted to much on Mo who is not a high level blocker.
 Bottom line with Q and Kelly playing  at less than 100%, probably Smith too,

it has all been a mess.
 So i agree, add all this with some Frank issues and we are having trouble scoring enough. 

   

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2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

There have been plenty of opportunities for Ballard to make moves. 
 

There have been LTs available as FAs and Corbett (RG) was reportedly up for grabs from the Panthers. 
 

Either way anything would have been better than Pryor and Pinter. 

 

In the offseason, yes there was free agents available. No argument there. I'm saying comparing the Eagles picking up a couple NTs mid season and Ballard not doing the same mid season with the OL is not the same thing at all.

 

As for Corbett, he didn't move, and tons of teams are looking for OL help. So clearly either the price was way to high as no one paid it, or he wasn't available. If he got traded for like a 6th rounder to Miami or something, I'd totally agree with you.

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3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

There have been plenty of opportunities for Ballard to make moves. 
 

There have been LTs available as FAs and Corbett (RG) was reportedly up for grabs from the Panthers. 
 

Either way anything would have been better than Pryor and Pinter. 


Don’t forget Charles Leno, much younger than the 1 year rental we got with Fisher. Safe eventually got Frank fired and will do Ballard in too.

 

Safe bet on Fisher because of familiarity, safe bet on Wentz because of familiarity, safe bet on Ryan because of wanting a name fans can buy into all led us to this, and several band aids in the process.

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2 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

 

In the offseason, yes there was free agents available. No argument there. I'm saying comparing the Eagles picking up a couple NTs mid season and Ballard not doing the same mid season with the OL is not the same thing at all.

 

As for Corbett, he didn't move, and tons of teams are looking for OL help. So clearly either the price was way to high as no one paid it, or he wasn't available. If he got traded for like a 6th rounder to Miami or something, I'd totally agree with you.

If teams thought they were getting a good/great RG for a 6th rounder it’s their own fault for failing at getting him. 
 

And the Eagles didn’t pick up a couple of old nobodies. 
 

There were also older but accomplished LTs available during the season. If the FO believed we could go anywhere this year their inaction killed those chances. 

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5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

If teams thought they were getting a good/great RG for a 6th rounder it’s their own fault for failing at getting him. 
 

And the Eagles didn’t pick up a couple of old nobodies. 
 

There were also older but accomplished LTs available during the season. If the FO believed we could go anywhere this year their inaction killed those chances. 

My point about Corbett is, it wasn't just the Colts who didn't get him, no team did. So maybe the price was a 2nd rounder. Would you have been ok with that? I'd assume not. But my point being, if he was reportedly "up for grabs" and no contending or playoff team ended up getting him, that leads me to believe the price was too high.

 

Which LTs are you referring too? Peters? Cause I'm not defending the lack of addressing OL during the off season at all. I'm just saying OL mid season is almost impossible to get.

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19 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

My point about Corbett is, it wasn't just the Colts who didn't get him, no team did. So maybe the price was a 2nd rounder. Would you have been ok with that? I'd assume not. But my point being, if he was reportedly "up for grabs" and no contending or playoff team ended up getting him, that leads me to believe the price was too high.

 

Which LTs are you referring too? Peters? Cause I'm not defending the lack of addressing OL during the off season at all. I'm just saying OL mid season is almost impossible to get.

Yes a 2nd would’ve been too much, but we don’t know if that was the price and, honestly, for an accomplished RG like Corbett I would’ve given a 3rd. 
 

Peters, Brown and even Fisher. Fisher wouldn’t have been ideal, but he’s a year removed from injury now and even he would have been a huge step up from Pryor. 

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8 hours ago, Solid84 said:

The Eagles got destroyed on the ground against the Commanders and Roseman immediately made moves to improve. And they did. 
 

Our Oline sucks balls for the entire season - Ballard sits on his hands.

 

Not pointing fingers at you East, just using this to illustrate the fact that Ballard is also part of the problem. 
 

Letting Frank go was the right thing to do. He was bad at playcalling and (in my opinion) lost the team. But. Ballard hasn’t done enough to make this team a contender and he needs to go too. 

I agree... but I disagree about the "situation"...

 

Philly is a contender. So they will go all in. Indy is not, and won't.. 

 

I'd also point that it is easy to spend 2M on an 8 game rental contract on Suh. Suh (and Joseph) is a gun for hire, and willing to come cheap for a contender. It's not that easy to find a gun for hire at LT or RG for cheap... especially for a sub-500 Indy. 

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