Did Irsay set Reich up to fail to fire him

[smittywerb]

If irsay made someone the interim HC who had no experience other than high school coaching, you think he has to set up someone to get them fired? Lol

 

 

[Nickster]

12 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Why is this confusing? Sirrianis post game statements make it clear as day. Irsay wanted to save$ thus made Frank bench Ryan and announce Sam ( a guy that was hardly getting any reps in practice) was QB1 the rest of the season. After the debacle in NE, Irsay wanted to save face by firing his scapegoat (Reich) and hiring a fan favorite in JS. JS made the call to go back to MR. Irsay is as impulsive as his father was.

That’s what seems likeliest to me.

[Nickster]

9 hours ago, Btown_Colt said:

Oh so he just needs a HOF caliber QB to have a good performing O & look good as a play caller!

Those are pretty much the minimum requirements.

[SurfinKal]

**Warning** The following is my opinion based on speculation and reporting.

 

I think Frank got himself fired unintentionally. I believe there were lots of conversations between Irsay, Ballard and Frank about Matt Ryan's play and this is where the divide started between Ballard and Frank. Its possible that Frank told Irsay that he couldnt coach MR out of his bad habits and he was heavily contributing to the bad o-line play by not getting rid of the ball, thus throwing shade on the GM and his scouts. Ballard being the prideful person he is took offense to the comment and disagreed with Frank and in turn blamed his staff and coaching ability. This could have caused Irsay to start wondering about both of their futures with the Colts, and knowing it was one or the other. 

 

After the last Titans game and being let down again by MR, Frank had it with him as the starter and also got what he needed by way of an injury to ensure he could move on from Ryan. I believe he spoke with Irsay and said something along the lines of, "I cant win with Matt, he makes too many bad decisions, he cant push the ball down the field and he is completely immobile. Let me go to Sam, we will look at what Philly is doing with Hurts and I'll have all I need to get back to winning. Irsay being as upset as he was sided with Frank and furthering the perceived insult by Ballard. 

 

When Sam put up a descent performance his first game, I think Ballards days in Irsay's head were then numbered. Irsay could have assumed Frank was right and that it wasnt the coaching, but the players signed. Then, the unthinkable happened; we lost to NE in a one-sided contest that we weren't competitive in. A team that Irsay to this day has very little respect for. IMO, Ballard saw his chance to move on Frank. During his late-night conversation with Irsay, the GM could have said to Irsay, "look, we tried Sam and even he cant help the team win with Franks coaching and coaching staff. We gave him a mobile quarterback; we failed now its time to move on.". The following day Frank was fired

 

I think Frank was completely blindsided by the call from Irsay because it seemed that he had the owner's ear, not the GM. I believe this is why Frank didn't fire the O- line coach and didnt want to fire the OC. Its because he thought by making the change to Sam (a player Irsay loved), He would give Irsay something he wanted to see (a mobile QB), they would have more time to get it right and he wasnt on the hot seat. This is why we went immediately back to Ryan after JS was hired.

 

I'm probably way off, but just a thought. 

[DougDew]

19 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am seeing a lot of this speculation. Because Jeff Saturday was allowed to make Ryan the QB after Irsay forced them to play Sam. It is kind of fishy. Did he want them to lose so he could fire Reich?

Not setting up for failure.  Reich stepped on his own self enough to justify the firing.  But by meddling in the QB starting decision the way he did, I think Irsay was getting people in the NFL asking him if he was actually trying to win (trying to be noncompetitive).  If reports came out that said he went with Sam in order to save money on the Ryan contract...resulting in a less competitive team, I wouldn't doubt that he may have gotten a personal phone call from Goodell asking him what the devil was going on.  He then tried to reverse that bad look by making more traditional mid season moves in response to a bad season and restore the vet back to starting QB.

[gspdx]

17 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Why is this confusing? Sirrianis post game statements make it clear as day. Irsay wanted to save$ thus made Frank bench Ryan and announce Sam ( a guy that was hardly getting any reps in practice) was QB1 the rest of the season. After the debacle in NE, Irsay wanted to save face by firing his scapegoat (Reich) and hiring a fan favorite in JS. JS made the call to go back to MR. Irsay is as impulsive as his father was.

 

Wow - pretty big leap you are making there.  Sounds like some stupid plot on Yellowstone or something.  So Sirianni's post game comments make the whole conspiracy clear to you?

[gspdx]

21 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

Wow - pretty big leap you are making there.  Sounds like some stupid plot on Yellowstone or something.  So Sirianni's post game comments make the whole conspiracy clear to you?

 

OK - after reading my post I realize I responded in a negative way.  Sorry about that.

 

Here is what I meant to say:  I think all of this is just speculation.  We don't have all of the facts of what really went on behind the scenes.  

 

Jim didn't need to create some pretext to fire Frank.  If he felt the team wasn't going in the right direction then that is all of the justification he needed.  

 

Could he have done all of that? Sure.  But he didn't need to and he knows it.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, SurfinKal said:

**Warning** The following is my opinion based on speculation and reporting.

 

I think Frank got himself fired unintentionally. I believe there were lots of conversations between Irsay, Ballard and Frank about Matt Ryan's play and this is where the divide started between Ballard and Frank. Its possible that Frank told Irsay that he couldnt coach MR out of his bad habits and he was heavily contributing to the bad o-line play by not getting rid of the ball, thus throwing shade on the GM and his scouts. Ballard being the prideful person he is took offense to the comment and disagreed with Frank and in turn blamed his staff and coaching ability. This could have caused Irsay to start wondering about both of their futures with the Colts, and knowing it was one or the other. 

 

After the last Titans game and being let down again by MR, Frank had it with him as the starter and also got what he needed by way of an injury to ensure he could move on from Ryan. I believe he spoke with Irsay and said something along the lines of, "I cant win with Matt, he makes too many bad decisions, he cant push the ball down the field and he is completely immobile. Let me go to Sam, we will look at what Philly is doing with Hurts and I'll have all I need to get back to winning. Irsay being as upset as he was sided with Frank and furthering the perceived insult by Ballard. 

 

When Sam put up a descent performance his first game, I think Ballards days in Irsay's head were then numbered. Irsay could have assumed Frank was right and that it wasnt the coaching, but the players signed. Then, the unthinkable happened; we lost to NE in a one-sided contest that we weren't competitive in. A team that Irsay to this day has very little respect for. IMO, Ballard saw his chance to move on Frank. During his late-night conversation with Irsay, the GM could have said to Irsay, "look, we tried Sam and even he cant help the team win with Franks coaching and coaching staff. We gave him a mobile quarterback; we failed now its time to move on.". The following day Frank was fired

 

I think Frank was completely blindsided by the call from Irsay because it seemed that he had the owner's ear, not the GM. I believe this is why Frank didn't fire the O- line coach and didnt want to fire the OC. Its because he thought by making the change to Sam (a player Irsay loved), He would give Irsay something he wanted to see (a mobile QB), they would have more time to get it right and he wasnt on the hot seat. This is why we went immediately back to Ryan after JS was hired.

 

I'm probably way off, but just a thought. 

 

Did you watch the presser with Irsay, Saturday, and Ballard? It was pretty obvious that Ballard didn't want Reich fired. Given that your theory is based on the idea of Ballard and Reich basically stabbing each other in the back, I think it's quite a stretch, to say the least.

[SurfinKal]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Did you watch the presser with Irsay, Saturday, and Ballard? It was pretty obvious that Ballard didn't want Reich fired. Given that your theory is based on the idea of Ballard and Reich basically stabbing each other in the back, I think it's quite a stretch, to say the least.

Yes, I did watch the presser and Ballard said what he said. I believe anyone can say anything, whether its true or not is another thing. I do think Ballard can be a petty person and has the capability of stabbing someone in the back. 

 

You are correct, it is a stretch, and I will never know if it's true therefore I won't take too much time trying to defend it. Just wanted to throw my thoughts out there for a different POV and maybe spark more conversation because I find the topic interesting. 

[gspdx]

Just now, SurfinKal said:

Yes, I did watch the presser and Ballard said what he said. I believe anyone can say anything, whether its true or not is another thing. I do think Ballard can be a petty person and has the capability of stabbing someone in the back. 

 

You are correct, it is a stretch, and I will never know if it's true therefore I won't take too much time trying to defend it. Just wanted to throw my thoughts out there for a different POV and maybe spark more conversation because I find the topic interesting. 

 

At least you stated it it your opinion.  We are all entitled to those.

[dw49]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

As bad as the end of last season was, I was even more bothered by the beginning of this season. Everyone on the team looked last season's failure directly in the face, and said they were ready to show what they were made of. And they couldn't have started any worse.

 

Ballard and Reich always talk about toughness, finishing, and not flinching. All of that shoed to be empty talk at the beginning of this season.

 

Yes and I should have added that it carried through to 2013.

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, SurfinKal said:

Yes, I did watch the presser and Ballard said what he said. I believe anyone can say anything, whether its true or not is another thing. I do think Ballard can be a petty person and has the capability of stabbing someone in the back. 

 

You are correct, it is a stretch, and I will never know if it's true therefore I won't take too much time trying to defend it. Just wanted to throw my thoughts out there for a different POV and maybe spark more conversation because I find the topic interesting. 

 

I don't think either Ballard or Reich have shown an inclination toward being petty or stabbing their closest work partners in the back. 

 

I also think Ballard's feelings on Reich's firing were obvious during that presser, and your position kind of relies on the premise that what seemed so obvious in that presser was actually a misrepresentation on his part.

[SurfinKal]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think either Ballard or Reich have shown an inclination toward being petty or stabbing their closest work partners in the back. 

 

I also think Ballard's feelings on Reich's firing were obvious during that presser, and your position kind of relies on the premise that what seemed so obvious in that presser was actually a misrepresentation on his part.

I think Ballard has shown to be pettier than Frank. I base this on Ballard's interaction with local media personalities that have questioned his decisions. He doesn't take the high road, but instead has taken personal shots at them or tries to rub their nose in it publicly. 

 

I can admit that Ballard was upset over Frank being let go, but to me, that doesn't mean he didn't have a hand in his departure. If he did, I couldn't blame him; when having to choose between your family and someone else's, I think most would choose their own.  

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Did you watch the presser with Irsay, Saturday, and Ballard? It was pretty obvious that Ballard didn't want Reich fired. Given that your theory is based on the idea of Ballard and Reich basically stabbing each other in the back, I think it's quite a stretch, to say the least.

I am not sure I agree with u. The team was spiraling down ward and I believe if Fran would have stayed on till the end of season, both Ballard and Frank were gone. I believe Ballard didn't really disagree with the firing but he  wanted Fox or Bradley to take over. He probably felt that they could get more wins and therefore Ballard could point to Frank as the problem and then he would not get fired himself. I think Ballard did not want Saturday for 2 reasons. Ballard felt that Saturday would fail and the hiring was a joke. The team would  fail and that would mean Jeff would not return and Ballard would be gone. In the even that Jeff was successful, he would probably be given the power to bring in his own GM next year.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

I also think Ballard's feelings on Reich's firing were obvious during that presser,

 

 

I only watched the presser once but I didn't come away with that impression.  I actually (and I can't believe I'm about to type this) agree more with Moose that Ballard was not against firing Frank, but rather he was against hiring Saturday as the interim.

[Superman]

5 hours ago, J@son said:

 

 

I only watched the presser once but I didn't come away with that impression.  I actually (and I can't believe I'm about to type this) agree more with Moose that Ballard was not against firing Frank, but rather he was against hiring Saturday as the interim.

 

No question he wasn't on board with Saturday. But I think he was pretty clear that he didn't want to fire Reich. He had multiple opportunities to say he agreed with the decision, and he declined each time. To me, he was not in agreement with any element of the change.

[EastStreet]

 

Saturday is probably evaluating Ballard too.... 

 

So an "outsider" (not really) is now in Ballard's sandbox, and sounds like Irsay may have made the offer to Saturday without talking to Ballard about the hiring (or firing)..... 

 

So Ballard is likely feeling heat in his seat.. And is feeling that his control is now decreased... 

 

But... not reading that Ballard is mad about Reich's firing.. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

So Ballard is likely feeling heat in his seat.. And is feeling that his control is now decreased... 

 

But... not reading that Ballard is mad about Reich's firing.. 

I totally agree Ballard is feeling some heat. He knows exactly what is going on. Now we wait and see what he will do. In the past he has surprised us by being predictable but not so predictable. 

 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I totally agree Ballard is feeling some heat. He knows exactly what is going on. Now we wait and see what he will do. In the past he has surprised us by being predictable but not so predictable. 

 

 

I've always seen the Ballard/Reich relationship as more of a partnership, not really a GM boss and HC employee. 

So never really thought that Ballard "managed" Frank. But Ballard was there first... and had "seniority" lol, and probably was Irsay's favorite... now the situation is changed for Chris. And he's uncomfortable. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Now I am hearing some say that hiring Saturday was just a PR stunt. Saying there really is no way Saturday can really win enough to earn the job.  They don’t believe ge r Walker wants it.
 

Geaorge Bremer and his podcast partner think maybe they could look at the college ranks. Of course Harbaugh is the first one mentioned. 

[EastStreet]

Not a PR stunt.... 

[Defjamz26]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No question he wasn't on board with Saturday. But I think he was pretty clear that he didn't want to fire Reich. He had multiple opportunities to say he agreed with the decision, and he declined each time. To me, he was not in agreement with any element of the change.

On one hand it’s understandable why he wouldn’t be on board with the part of the change that called for Saturday being named interim HC. 
 

On the other, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be on board with the firing of Reich. It was clear that Frank wasn’t the answer and that the lockeroom was lost. But then again that’s Ballard’s flaw as a GM: He can never see when something is wrong or holding the team back. He didn’t see that there was a need for a strong need for a LT when we knew Castonzo was retiring. He didn’t seem to realize the importance of drafting a young QB and why constant one and done band-aids are a bad thing. He didn’t seem to realize the O-line was regressing. The list goes on.

 

I understand the personal relationship and not loving firing people, but if you can’t as a GM see why Reich needed to go then that’s part of the problem. As many have pointed out, Ballard’s inability to self scout is part of the Colts problems.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

31 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

On one hand it’s understandable why he wouldn’t be on board with the part of the change that called for Saturday being named interim HC. 
 

On the other, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be on board with the firing of Reich. It was clear that Frank wasn’t the answer and that the lockeroom was lost. But then again that’s Ballard’s flaw as a GM: He can never see when something is wrong or holding the team back. He didn’t see that there was a need for a strong need for a LT when we knew Castonzo was retiring. He didn’t seem to realize the importance of drafting a young QB and why constant one and done band-aids are a bad thing. He didn’t seem to realize the O-line was regressing. The list goes on.

 

I understand the personal relationship and not loving firing people, but if you can’t as a GM see why Reich needed to go then that’s part of the problem. As many have pointed out, Ballard’s inability to self scout is part of the Colts problems.

That last paragraph is exactly what George Bremer and his podcast partner said. They mentioned do colts even realize what the problem with the team is. It clearly starts with the line and they did everything but fire the oline coach.   Maybe Ballard didn’t want to fire Reich because he knew he was the blame for the teams struggles and not Reich. 

[BlackTiger]

Seems like people forgot that Matt was injured and out for a few weeks.  

 

I dont think Jim meddled all that much, they had to go with either Nick or Sam and chose Sam.

 

To me it made sense to try Sam in those circumstances to see how he did in real games before spending a high pick on another qb.   

[BlackTiger]

11 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

there really is no way Saturday can really win enough to earn the job.  

This may be true but i dont see it as a PR stunt. 

 

Sure they could have gone with Fox or Bradley but that makes them under staffed on Defense when they have been good and we really need help on offense.  I think they wanted an Oline guy and there are not many choices out there now 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Seems like people forgot that Matt was injured and out for a few weeks.  

 

I dont think Jim meddled all that much, they had to go with either Nick or Sam and chose Sam.

 

To me it made sense to try Sam in those circumstances to see how he did in real games before spending a high pick on another qb.   

The error was saying Sam was QB rest of season. That wasn’t needed. We also got Foles in case their was a injury to Matt Ryan. So the entire thing was odd. Especially when your 3-3-1. This entire sequence is where the season really went off the rails.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

This may be true but i dont see it as a PR stunt. 

 

Sure they could have gone with Fox or Bradley but that makes them under staffed on Defense when they have been good and we really need help on offense.  I think they wanted an Oline guy and there are not many choices out there now 

It makes sense as a PR stunt because Jeff gets people interested and excited. Those other guys would not.

[BlackTiger]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The error was saying Sam was QB rest of season.

I didnt like that either but we really cant say that was Jim meddling and setting up Frank to fail.  That could have been a Frank move for all we know

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That last paragraph is exactly what George Bremer and his podcast partner said. They mentioned do colts even realize what the problem with the team is. It clearly starts with the line and they did everything but fire the oline coach.   Maybe Ballard didn’t want to fire Reich because he knew he was the blame for the teams struggles and not Reich. 

Reich has been responsible for much of the teams struggles.   From losing to the Raiders and Jags last year and missing the playoffs, to losing to Houston to start this season.  Also losing to the Jags this season.  Reich deserved to be fired.   that is not saying Ballard doesn't.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I didnt like that either but we really cant say that was Jim meddling and setting up Frank to fail.  That could have been a Frank move for all we know

According to Irsay he never told Reich they had to stick with Sam. So the entire thing is weird. I believe after the NE game Reich in his presser said they  may change QB again. If Ryan was hurt and couldn’t play a couple games there was no reason to say Sam was QB rest of season.  Plus that’s what we got Foles for. This is the actual turning point in season. We may have won that WA game with Foles and who knows what happens in NE had Ryan or Foles played. Both those games were winnable.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Reich has been responsible for much of the teams struggles.   From losing to the Raiders and Jags last year and missing the playoffs, to losing to Houston to start this season.  Also losing to the Jags this season.  Reich deserved to be fired.   that is not saying Ballard doesn't.  

Reich didn’t go get this oline. And as you can see it’s still bad with Saturday. It’s a talent issue and that’s on Ballard. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

On one hand it’s understandable why he wouldn’t be on board with the part of the change that called for Saturday being named interim HC. 
 

On the other, I don’t see why he wouldn’t be on board with the firing of Reich. It was clear that Frank wasn’t the answer and that the lockeroom was lost. But then again that’s Ballard’s flaw as a GM: He can never see when something is wrong or holding the team back. He didn’t see that there was a need for a strong need for a LT when we knew Castonzo was retiring. He didn’t seem to realize the importance of drafting a young QB and why constant one and done band-aids are a bad thing. He didn’t seem to realize the O-line was regressing. The list goes on.

 

I understand the personal relationship and not loving firing people, but if you can’t as a GM see why Reich needed to go then that’s part of the problem. As many have pointed out, Ballard’s inability to self scout is part of the Colts problems.

 

I don't think the bolded is true. I think it's judging with the benefit of hindsight.

 

I believe the Colts wanted to draft a LT in 2021, but they had Kwity Paye rated much higher than Christian Darrisaw, and felt like Eric Fisher could still play. Then they felt like Matt Pryor's play at times in 2021 had promise for full time LT, and that Bernhard Raimann could develop into a starter there. There may be problems with those evaluations, but they didn't fail to see that we needed to do something at LT. What they did hasn't been successful, and I'm fine with criticizing their foresight with these moves. But at the time, lots of people liked Fisher, and lots of people thought Pryor could play full time LT for a season. 

 

Same at QB. They thought Rivers would play for more than one year. They thought Wentz would be here long term. There may be problems with these evaluations, but it was not their intention to have constant one and done QBs. At the time, lots of people liked Rivers, and lots of people liked Wentz and thought he'd be around long term. This past offseason, lots of people thought Matt Ryan made the Colts a true contender. 

 

I think it's absolutely fair to point out that they were wrong on some of these decisions. It's fair to point out that Darrisaw is playing great at LT in Year 2 (Ballard apparently had some doubt that he could perform at LT, based on his post draft comments), or that Wentz wasn't the answer at QB, or that Pryor was completely terrible at LT this year. It's fair to point out that we don't have adequate depth/competition at the interior OL spots, so if Nelson or Kelly are having a rough year or struggling with injury, we're up the creek. I don't think it's accurate to say that the team didn't do anything about these issues.

 

Last thing on the OL, it's fallen apart pretty quickly. Last year the pass pro struggled, primarily because of Fisher's play, but we were still a great run blocking team. This year, it's totally different. But that's happened seemingly overnight. And if there's one unit I believe Ballard can fix, it's the OL, because he's done it already. 

 

Back to Reich, I watched that presser and came away with the strong impression that Ballard did not want Reich fired. Don't know what his opinion would have been at the end of the season, but that night, he had an opportunity to agree that the team needed a new voice, or that some of the problems with play had been concerning him, or anything to show that he felt Reich being fired was the right move at that time. He didn't show anything like that, IMO. In fact, when asked about the decision to fire Reich, he talked about 'very spirited debate' between him and Irsay. I take that to mean he was arguing to keep Reich.

[Myles]

11 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Reich didn’t go get this oline. And as you can see it’s still bad with Saturday. It’s a talent issue and that’s on Ballard. 

Saturday had this team score on it's first possession of a game, something Reich couldn't do in 9 games this season.  Reich was so bad at calling plays that the Colts thought a young kid was a better option.

[throwing BBZ]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Reich didn’t go get this oline. And as you can see it’s still bad with Saturday. It’s a talent issue and that’s on Ballard. 

 

 The worst thing that can happen to a line is for the defense to know they don't have to defend the whole field. Ryan is cowardly, giving our big receivers NO CHANCE to beat defenders for chunk plays.

 So they tighten the noose.

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The worst thing that can happen to a line is for the defense to know they don't have to defend the whole field. Ryan is cowardly, giving our big receivers NO CHANCE to beat defenders for chunk plays.

 So they tighten the noose.

 

He is not cowardly. He just knows what he can't do and hurt the team more. He can't roll out or run boot legs or take off in an RPO QB run play, he can only dink and dunk down the field or look for busted coverages to get the 20 yard plus chunks. He is not going to split a safety and WR 30 yards down the field if it is tightly covered, and it is not like Alec Pierce knows to run any route other than the outside shoulder jump ball 30 yards down the field. Post routes are pretty much non existent in our playbook down the field. So Ryan plays within his limitations knowing what he can do and knowing what he cannot do, and plays it safe not wanting to hurt the Colts. It is hard enough for him to hold on to the ball if he is sacked, he has limitations and we have no way but to work around him. 

 

If he throws it up and Pittman or Pierce manages to get it, we would say it is a great play. Still to me, a 50/50 ball 30 yards down the field with Ryan is almost like 40/60 with 60 favoring the D because the ball typically floats that the defender always has a chance 30 yards down the field, that the WR can only do so much to overcome those odds, IMO. 

[strt182]

Irsay didn;t want Frank to fail or else he would not have hired him. If anything Irsay wanted Frank to succeed and we all know that he can support a HC sometimes too much.  

Again I think Frank put too much on his own plate and it finally caught up with him. 

 

I think Frank was a good coach, however not a great play caller or designer. I think he lacked some accountability and push for some of the players to get better. 

 

Us fans can all guess ad grasp at straws here but we really dont have the info we need to really pinpoint alot of things. Neither do alot of the Coaches or players or they would have had it fixed.  There is one thing that nobody can ever fix only lessen the impact and that is HUMAN ERROR. 

[throwing BBZ]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

He is not cowardly. He just knows what he can't do and hurt the team more. He can't roll out or run boot legs or take off in an RPO QB run play, he can only dink and dunk down the field or look for busted coverages to get the 20 yard plus chunks. He is not going to split a safety and WR 30 yards down the field if it is tightly covered, and it is not like Alec Pierce knows to run any route other than the outside shoulder jump ball 30 yards down the field. Post routes are pretty much non existent in our playbook down the field. So Ryan plays within his limitations knowing what he can do and knowing what he cannot do, and plays it safe not wanting to hurt the Colts. It is hard enough for him to hold on to the ball if he is sacked, he has limitations and we have no way but to work around him. 

 

If he throws it up and Pittman or Pierce manages to get it, we would say it is a great play. Still to me, a 50/50 ball 30 yards down the field with Ryan is almost like 40/60 with 60 favoring the D because the ball typically floats that the defender always has a chance 30 yards down the field, that the WR can only do so much to overcome those odds, IMO. 

 

  You have No Idea what routes Pierce can run. 

  And roughly just fewer than 20% of deep balls are caught. When you Never throw them it is a big advantage to the D.
  If you want to score more than twenty points you need some chunk plays.

 We just got beat on a chunk play/pass interference. He is a coward to make a lot of throws, and clueless on dumpoffs. 

  I'm just sick of his weak armed mediocrity.  

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  You have No Idea what routes Pierce can run. 

  And roughly just fewer than 20% of deep balls are caught. When you Never throw them it is a big advantage to the D.
  If you want to score more than twenty points you need some chunk plays.

 We just got beat on a chunk play/pass interference. He is a coward to make a lot of throws, and clueless on dumpoffs. 

  I'm just sick of his weak armed mediocrity.  

 

I probably don't. However, all I have seen him do is slants, short zone busters, comebacks and back shoulder / throw it up there jump balls given to him. He doesn't show great separation against good corners and he is just a rookie, maybe that is why they haven't expanded it and some of it is Ryan's arm strength too.

 

I can understand being tired of Ryan's arm strength limitation, I am too. Ryan has racked up volume stats on bad teams, which is very misleading for the passing yardage (now we know), just like Brees did for different reasons, because he had to play with bad Ds for a while.

 

I was never a fan of abandoning Wentz for that reason, IMO, you can look up my posts for that. It was knee jerk and we could have worked on Wentz's decision making in a Year 2 with Frank, and at least Ds wouldn't be crowding us and we could have roll outs and boot legs. 

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4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I probably don't. However, all I have seen him do is slants, short zone busters, comebacks and back shoulder / throw it up there jump balls given to him. He doesn't show great separation against good corners and he is just a rookie, maybe that is why they haven't expanded it and some of it is Ryan's arm strength too.

 

I can understand being tired of Ryan's arm strength limitation, I am too. Ryan has racked up volume stats on bad teams, which is very misleading for the passing yardage (now we know), just like Brees did for different reasons, because he had to play with bad Ds for a while.

 

I was never a fan of abandoning Wentz for that reason, IMO, you can look up my posts for that. It was knee jerk and we could have worked on Wentz's decision making in a Year 2 with Frank, and at least Ds wouldn't be crowding us and we could have roll outs and boot legs. 

Wentz was a big reason Taylor had such a big year.  Because the QB had to be accounted for with running the ball. Irsay made a situation ten times worse. 

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44 minutes ago, Myles said:

Saturday had this team score on it's first possession of a game, something Reich couldn't do in 9 games this season.  Reich was so bad at calling plays that the Colts thought a young kid was a better option.

And the oline was still trash.