Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

The path to a top 5 O-LINE ?


Happy2BeHere
 Share

Recommended Posts

In just a few years we went from being slated as the absolute best offensive line in the league to being bottom of the barrel. 
 

The bigger concern is that 3 of our 5 lineman are the same players in the exact same spot along the line from the “top of the league o-line”.

 

What’s the path to get back to a top 5 o-line? Obviously the two players who are guaranteed to be back on this line are Nelson and Smith IMO. If that is the foundation to start with then we are missing 3 spots on the line. Assuming Kelly is gone (and it’s unknown if that will happen) then of the 3 available spots with LT, LG, and RG how do we fill those spots? I think trading for a starter is probably out of the equation in the off season IMO. So then that means drafting and free agency. 
 

Of those players who are available this upcoming free agency who could be logically sign to fill at least 2 of these spots because I don’t see us getting two starters in the draft. Who is even going to be available via free agency ?
 

Of players in the draft who could be the best logical choice for one of these starter spots without sacrificing too much to get them?

 

Does Raimann end up the LT next year or do you think their will actually be a push to get a solid proven LT and perhaps kick Raimann to a depth spot or possibly can moving Raimann starting at LG/RG be reasonable?

 

What’s your thoughts on how we get there for next season with some actual feasible plan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only argument I can make in defense of the 3 that are still here is that it's often said an Oline is one unit. So missing 2 people might really make that much of a difference.

 

Pryor was very bad before he got pulled. 

Fries is a 7th rounder.

Raimann lacks experience and strength it seems.

 

 

That's a big deal for your line. 

 

 

But as for the future, im hoping we take another tackle in rounds 1 or 2. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

In just a few years we went from being slated as the absolute best offensive line in the league to being bottom of the barrel. 
 

The bigger concern is that 3 of our 5 lineman are the same players in the exact same spot along the line from the “top of the league o-line”.

 

What’s the path to get back to a top 5 o-line? Obviously the two players who are guaranteed to be back on this line are Nelson and Smith IMO. If that is the foundation to start with then we are missing 3 spots on the line. Assuming Kelly is gone (and it’s unknown if that will happen) then of the 3 available spots with LT, LG, and RG how do we fill those spots? I think trading for a starter is probably out of the equation in the off season IMO. So then that means drafting and free agency. 
 

Of those players who are available this upcoming free agency who could be logically sign to fill at least 2 of these spots because I don’t see us getting two starters in the draft. Who is even going to be available via free agency ?
 

Of players in the draft who could be the best logical choice for one of these starter spots without sacrificing too much to get them?

 

Does Raimann end up the LT next year or do you think their will actually be a push to get a solid proven LT and perhaps kick Raimann to a depth spot or possibly can moving Raimann starting at LG/RG be reasonable?

 

What’s your thoughts on how we get there for next season with some actual feasible plan?

Hire Dave back

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

you don't think so either? 

 

I mean I like Fries. I really like Fries actually. But Raimann is a liability when he's on an island, that's for sure. 

Raimann might be very good to excellent next year - even better the following year.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Rainman will be fine next season,a rookie at LT is never easy and he has limited experience but a quick learner. Will get stronger and should be the LT for next 5-6 years.

 

RG is more up in the air, Fries showing more then most expected for where he as drafted . Think he can be a swing Guard filing in but not sold as a starter.

 

Center-We need to cut bait with Kelly, cant afford 3 big o line contacts and Q and Smith taps us out.  Pinter is a much better Center then Guard,would like to see French get some reps. He showed out in preseason. Between those 2 we should be ok with a cheap contract.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

you don't think so either? 

 

I mean I like Fries. I really like Fries actually. But Raimann is a liability when he's on an island, that's for sure. 

 

You like Fries? He's terrible. At least with Raimann we can throw a TE on his side or a RB to help out. 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The path has always been the same.  Draft the best and give them time to develop.  Finding top notch offensive linemen in free agency  is almost impossible. If they hit the market they are rarely  worth what they think they are. 

The QB is the hardest position to fill followed by offensive linemen.  

We need both for the future. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

you don't think we need to replace Raimann or Fries? 

It would be nice to get another G, but I don't think we have the extra $20M in cap space or will be drafting in the top 6 to get that G that will transform an oline.  

 

I think if we just keep doing what we're doing, have just one transformational G that fixes the oline, and then just keep adding more accountability that's been missing since DeGug left, that should create a pathway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It would be nice to get another G, but I don't think we have the extra $20M in cap space or will be drafting in the top 6 to get that G that will transform an oline.  

 

I think if we just keep doing what we're doing, have just one transformational G that fixes the oline, and then just keep adding more accountability that's been missing since DeGug left, that should create a pathway.

Go read w87r’s salary cap breakdown pinned at the top. We can and do have room to easily clear 60 million in cap space with minimal efforts and without cutting anyone

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It would be nice to get another G, but I don't think we have the extra $20M in cap space or will be drafting in the top 6 to get that G that will transform an oline.  

 

I think if we just keep doing what we're doing, have just one transformational G that fixes the oline, and then just keep adding more accountability that's been missing since DeGug left, that should create a pathway.

And yes, I realize that you’re trolling and being sarcastic 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Go read w87r’s salary cap breakdown pinned at the top. We can and do have room to easily clear 60 million in cap space with minimal efforts and without cutting anyone

And yes, I realize that you’re trolling and being sarcastic 

Great, then we can fix the oline by adding either a $20M G or draft one at pick 6 that transforms the line from one that stinks to being elite, all by himself.  We just need a trade up partner to get that guy from Northwestern that is all the rave this year.

 

Like I said, adding that player plus even doubling up on the accountability should be the path.

 

But if we use that pick to draft a QB, we won't be able to get that G, so our line will stink again.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It starts at LT and RG. Still haven’t found anyone who is as good as Castonzo or Glowinski were. We’re on our 3rd right guard and it says a lot that Fries isn’t good but he’s still better than Pryor and Pinter. A lot of that is on Ballard though. Not only has he failed to bring in any real competition at RG, but he keeps drafting these light guys who are 300 LBs soaking wet to play guard. To play guard in the NFL you need to be 315-330. Not only are they light so they’re easily moved, but they also lack play strength as well.

 

Really power is the issue with issue with LT too. Rainman just doesn’t have any power on top of his known struggles with speed coming off the edge. We need a true athletic and powerful LT. I really like Paris Johnson Jr. (Yeah I know another Paris from OSU) and the kid from Penn State. 
 

Only guard I know about in the draft is Cooper Bebe from Kansas State.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think having a mobile QB would be helpful and take some of the pressure off the OL.  We've had statues at QB in recent years who can't escape a pass rush.  Look at Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, etc.  They don't have elite offensive lines, but they can elude a pass rush and get into position to make a pass or run effectively.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Imo we need to stick with Raiman and Fries. The oline has been shuffled too much since the start of the season. Need to give these guys time to gell and get better. Give Saturday more time to with with these guys. A more mobile qb would help but we are stuck with Ryan for the duration so might as well with on protecting him.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fire either Chris Strausser or Kevin Mawae (or both) as the line has gone downhill since STraussers arrival.

 

Let Raimann finish his rookie season for the love of God.......he will grow into that spot as he is already learning on the fly and shows both good (physical skills) and bad (mental penalties) attributes....

 

Let the Penn State kid learn RG at the NFL level too and see what he's got at the end of the year. Nelson, Kelly and Smith are just fine. 

 

HOWEVER, if I am running the draft next year, I draft a tackle in the first round and let that tackle battle it out with both Raimann and Smith and the loser slides inside to Guard. Then I draft Hendon Hooker in the 2nd Round and get a steal at QB because he's currently injured......groom him for one year under Matt Ryan and let Ryan retire after that.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

It would be nice to get another G, but I don't think we have the extra $20M in cap space or will be drafting in the top 6 to get that G that will transform an oline.  

 

I think if we just keep doing what we're doing, have just one transformational G that fixes the oline, and then just keep adding more accountability that's been missing since DeGug left, that should create a pathway.

Where is DeGug working now??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would cut Ryan Kelly and let Pinter take over at center.  Pinter has looked good there and I think we would pick up some cap space by releasing Kelly.  I would then sign a FA to play RG and see if Fries can beat him out.  That said I think Fries would probably be the backup.  I think there is a good chance Raiman could be our future LT but we can’t completely count on it.  I would draft one in the second rd assuming we draft a quarterback in the first round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Rainmann will grow into a solid LT. Fries is playing really well at RG. 

 

That said, if we bring in some competition all across the line and add some depth then the future will be in good shape. Q is still a monster. Kelly is still a top 10 center. Braden is still a top 10 RT. 

 

The problem with the offensive line is not what it appears to be. Frank was only blocking with 5 and expecting the back to pick up the free rushers. When Saturday took the helm, we started blocking with 6 and 7, and adding in shorter hot routes. 
 

Frank was sending everyone on routes and having the receivers run deeper routes. Simple math tells us why that won’t work. Deeper developing routes, longer for the play to develop, only blocking with 5…. Yeah. A recipe for disaster. 
 

So what we really need is a fullback. Preferably one who can occasionally run some short routes, to keep the defense guessing. 
 

Sure, Pryor sucks. However, our offensive line is a lot better than people think. They were just being asked to do too much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is where the conversation turns to Ballard. He built this line and it his job to fix it.  Hindsight is that we reached way to high for Nelson. #6 is a round to find a generational player and he has proven the last two years that he is not. I said in another post we are 2-3 years from a solid line assuming we have the right GM to choose those players. Nelson and Smith are most disappointing with Nelson being a glaring one. I think books will be written about what happened to our line once the truth comes out. There is a reason why players start out great but dimmish in a short time. they have both received their second contracts and the poor play seemed to rear its head around that time. You would hope that with two intelligent players they would figure out the issues and get better. We need to keep our draft capitol to fix QB, WR and LT but I would really enjoy drafting a nasty right guard with a non stop motor. I know these are hard to find but there are they if you scout properly.  At this point I am all for Sean Payton for HC and a GM that knows how correctly draft for need.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

This is where the conversation turns to Ballard. He built this line and it his job to fix it.  Hindsight is that we reached way to high for Nelson. #6 is a round to find a generational player and he has proven the last two years that he is not. I said in another post we are 2-3 years from a solid line assuming we have the right GM to choose those players. Nelson and Smith are most disappointing with Nelson being a glaring one. I think books will be written about what happened to our line once the truth comes out. There is a reason why players start out great but dimmish in a short time. they have both received their second contracts and the poor play seemed to rear its head around that time. You would hope that with two intelligent players they would figure out the issues and get better. We need to keep our draft capitol to fix QB, WR and LT but I would really enjoy drafting a nasty right guard with a non stop motor. I know these are hard to find but there are they if you scout properly.  At this point I am all for Sean Payton for HC and a GM that knows how correctly draft for need.  

 

Quenton Nelson is the best left guard the NFL has seen in decades. He is absolutely a generational player. 

 

Just curious. What makes you believe he is not?
 


 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Quenton Nelson is the best left guard the NFL has seen in decades. He is absolutely a generational player. 

 

Just curious. What makes you believe he is not?
 


 

 

Your right, I see your point. He never gets blown back or pushed off the line at all. My apologies for watching actual and not imaginary footage 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Your right, I see your point. He never gets blown back or pushed off the line at all. My apologies for watching actual and not imaginary footage 


I have been around football nearly all my life. I’ve thoroughly watched every Indianapolis Colts game. I’ve spent thousands of hours watching game film of various levels of football. The only thing imaginary is on your end. 
 

You said Quenton Nelson is not a generational talent. I’ll ask again, what makes you think he is not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:


I have been around football nearly all my life. I’ve thoroughly watched every Indianapolis Colts game. I’ve spent thousands of hours watching game film of various levels of football. The only thing imaginary is on your end. 
 

You said Quenton Nelson is not a generational talent. I’ll ask again, what makes you think he is not?

So you think he is playing to level he was drafted? He should make the people better and that’s not happening. The team is afraid to run behind him. Would you still call that generational?

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, indyagent17 said:

So you think he is playing to level he was drafted? He should make the people better and that’s not happening. The team is afraid to run behind him. Would you still call that generational?


Did you read my post above? Here is the link. 

 

2 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

I think Rainmann will grow into a solid LT. Fries is playing really well at RG. 

 

That said, if we bring in some competition all across the line and add some depth then the future will be in good shape. Q is still a monster. Kelly is still a top 10 center. Braden is still a top 10 RT. 

 

The problem with the offensive line is not what it appears to be. Frank was only blocking with 5 and expecting the back to pick up the free rushers. When Saturday took the helm, we started blocking with 6 and 7, and adding in shorter hot routes. 
 

Frank was sending everyone on routes and having the receivers run deeper routes. Simple math tells us why that won’t work. Deeper developing routes, longer for the play to develop, only blocking with 5…. Yeah. A recipe for disaster. 
 

So what we really need is a fullback. Preferably one who can occasionally run some short routes, to keep the defense guessing. 
 

Sure, Pryor sucks. However, our offensive line is a lot better than people think. They were just being asked to do too much. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

I think Rainmann will grow into a solid LT. Fries is playing really well at RG. 

 

That said, if we bring in some competition all across the line and add some depth then the future will be in good shape. Q is still a monster. Kelly is still a top 10 center. Braden is still a top 10 RT. 

 

The problem with the offensive line is not what it appears to be. Frank was only blocking with 5 and expecting the back to pick up the free rushers. When Saturday took the helm, we started blocking with 6 and 7, and adding in shorter hot routes. 
 

Frank was sending everyone on routes and having the receivers run deeper routes. Simple math tells us why that won’t work. Deeper developing routes, longer for the play to develop, only blocking with 5…. Yeah. A recipe for disaster. 
 

So what we really need is a fullback. Preferably one who can occasionally run some short routes, to keep the defense guessing. 
 

Sure, Pryor sucks. However, our offensive line is a lot better than people think. They were just being asked to do too much. 

I can't remember the last time we ran a FB.  But boy, I sure would love it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:


I have been around football nearly all my life. I’ve thoroughly watched every Indianapolis Colts game. I’ve spent thousands of hours watching game film of various levels of football. The only thing imaginary is on your end. 
 

You said Quenton Nelson is not a generational talent. I’ll ask again, what makes you think he is not?

His tape against TN since Simmons and Tart have coming in rag dolling him for starters.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:


Did you read my post above? Here is the link. 

 

 

 

 Fries is playing more like a 2nd year 7th rd draft pick.

 Not a disaster but he is part of the problem. Sorta to be expected.

  He will get the opportunity to keep learning and grinding and may be a + player one day.
 Drafting a G with one of our 3rd rd picks, yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...