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Frank Reich replacement


danlhart87

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4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Ultimately you may be right

 

But.......  lets look at both, to be totally objective

 

Head Coach

Love the man, and what he stands for. But he may be better suited to be a QB coach or an OC

Just too many mistakes and wrong choices and too many times the team just isnt prepared for the game

This team has a strong history of VERY SLOW starts.......

That's on the Head coach

 

General Manager--- "This is HOW WE DO THIS" (You're wrong dude)

I am SICK of his smugness

5 QBs in 5 years is the GMs problem

And there is a very strong case to be made that we will have the SIXTH QB to start next year

Ryan looks slow to recognize anything.....  He is not the answer

Everyone looks at Brady, and think that THEY can do that as well.....

The fact is that bringing the old QB in to lead a franchise fails as much if not more than the rookie draft

We STILL dont have the QB of the future on the roster..... 

 

We have a subpar OL.....  thats the net result of Ballards draft.......  We have so much money tied up there

We have a RT that is paid at Pro Bowl level....  And has been one of the worst in the league

We have a Center that is the 2nd highest paid center in the league.....  He has become pathetic

We have a LG that is playing at "Just OK" level, but we are paying him a mid QB level

We let two above average Guards leave in FA......  (We needed one of them)

 

Guys...... Our GM ..... isnt that good......

 

I am of the belief that BOTH have to GO at the end of the season

 

Let the season play out 

(I believe that we will end up at around .500)  This is an average team that catches streaks.

 

Then, you follow the winning strategy that is proven

 

DRAFT a QB

(Move up if you need to)

 

If it doesnt work

DRAFT ANOTHER QB

 

RINSE, WASH, REPEAT   - UNTIL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT QB

 

Without out the RIGHT QB......

 

Its almost a waste of time.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not on board with that.  I want to see what a competent coach can do with these players.  Frank cannot scheme, adjust or coach the team well on game day.  

I'm good with drafting a QB if we are at the right spot or if we don't have to give up too much to move up.   But I do NOT want to be a Jet/Bears and go for a decade without getting a franchise QB.  

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14 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not on board with that.  I want to see what a competent coach can do with these players.  Frank cannot scheme, adjust or coach the team well on game day.  

I'm good with drafting a QB if we are at the right spot or if we don't have to give up too much to move up.   But I do NOT want to be a Jet/Bears and go for a decade without getting a franchise QB.  

You are correct on Frank - We agree

 

CB brings in the players..... the QB problem is the first thing to solve.... I mean FIRST THING

 

I dont want to give up the future in a draft trade (I remember Jeff George  :(  trade )

 

However.....

 

We have had MANY drafts come and go......   and we still dont have the QB of the future

 

THATS on the GM

 

The number of teams that won a SB without a top 5 QB HAS to be less than 5%

 

Its a joke to the league, and even to the Colts players..... that we are on our 5th QB in 5 years 

 

 

Would you rather have a HOF Guard or a top 5 QB?

 

I am taking the QB.... every time

 

Just saying

 

 

 

 

 

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Unfortunately, the vast majority of teams go a decade or longer without a "franchise qb". It took us 16 years to replace Bert Jones(yes Jones was a franchise qb except he got hurt and never really recovered). If you don't count Jones it took us 26 years to replace Johnny Unitas. There just aren't that many franchise qb's available.

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

You are correct on Frank - We agree

 

CB brings in the players..... the QB problem is the first thing to solve.... I mean FIRST THING

 

I dont want to give up the future in a draft trade (I remember Jeff George  :(  trade )

 

However.....

 

We have had MANY drafts come and go......   and we still dont have the QB of the future

 

THATS on the GM

 

The number of teams that won a SB without a top 5 QB HAS to be less than 5%

 

Its a joke to the league, and even to the Colts players..... that we are on our 5th QB in 5 years 

 

 

Would you rather have a HOF Guard or a top 5 QB?

 

I am taking the QB.... every time

 

Just saying

 

 

 

 

 

Its a joke to the league how bad this OL is with 3 guys that are allpro & make big bucks.

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

You are correct on Frank - We agree

 

CB brings in the players..... the QB problem is the first thing to solve.... I mean FIRST THING

 

I dont want to give up the future in a draft trade (I remember Jeff George  :(  trade )

 

However.....

 

We have had MANY drafts come and go......   and we still dont have the QB of the future

 

THATS on the GM

 

The number of teams that won a SB without a top 5 QB HAS to be less than 5%

 

Its a joke to the league, and even to the Colts players..... that we are on our 5th QB in 5 years 

 

 

Would you rather have a HOF Guard or a top 5 QB?

 

I am taking the QB.... every time

 

Just saying

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody wants to give up draft capitol but when your the definition of mediocre, which this team has been for years now. Your not good enough to make noise in the playoffs and your not bad enough to get a high draft pick. Were going to have to trade draft picks.

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On 10/5/2022 at 8:56 PM, EastStreet said:

 

He's already working for media now. So really is not retired.

And said he is interesting in a 2023 return.

NO still owns rights, but should not be a problem. 

States he coached in... CA, IN, OH, IL, PA, NY, TX, and LA.

IMO, situation and $. 

 

His requirement (recent interview)

“The most important element is functional ownership [and] front office … because there’s a handful of teams that aren’t, and those teams, regardless of what takes place, they can win on Sunday but they have trouble winning long term,” he said. “The opportunity to win consistently and the willingness to build the correct culture and all those things.”... and “This past weekend’s game vs. Tampa was the first time I had a version of FOMO. I was jealous of everyone that was there, including random Bruce Arians on the sideline,”

 

So 2 main questions...

Does he like Irsay's style?

Is Indy willing to pay?

 

 

I don't see Payton going to Dallas as long as Jerry is alive. He is a big personality. I know nothing of Payton but I do get the feel he is looking for a big market. I would have picked the Giants  but they are having  success. Payton can basically stay jn media and wait it out. There is no doubt that his agent is getting daily calls Panthers just fired Rhule and owner has big money.  Not sure he goes back to that division. 

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Carolina has initiated the Payton sweepstakes.  It's a smart move to cut bait on Rhule, and a year late in my estimation, but you can bet that owner will be fully engaged now with Payton's team and get a head start on lining him up.

 

Panthers owner is loaded, he is intelligent, and he's involved.  He sat on a poor hire and gave him more time than he should have.  These things will be attractive to Payton.  What they lack, however, is the QB in place.  Personally I like their QB3 but that might be my own hubris wanting to see my predictions on him pan out.

 

So for now Carolina is in the driver's seat.  But Payton will hopefully wait to see what else opens up before he decides.  Comparing the Panthers to us straight up I'd say the Colts have a better roster, obviously, but the owner might tip things their way.  With his deep pockets and a brand that can take it to New Orleans in their division they have a lot to offer.

 

Lastly I wonder if the Saints will play hardball with Carolina in the picks department.  But maybe not play hardball with a midwest team from the AFC like, oh I don't know, let's say the Colts.  Things about to heat up in the Sean Payton sweepstakes either way and the team that wins is going to win a lot in the next five to ten years.

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57 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't see Payton going to Dallas as long as Jerry is alive. He is a big personality. I know nothing of Payton but I do get the feel he is looking for a big market. I would have picked the Giants  but they are having  success. Payton can basically stay jn media and wait it out. There is no doubt that his agent is getting daily calls Panthers just fired Rhule and owner has big money.  Not sure he goes back to that division. 

Yeah Sean would want full roster control.  No way Jerruh gives him that.  The Cowboys are his personal train set.

 

I expect the Colts will end up being in the mix for SP simply because the owner has been exasperated since last season and I don't think he has faith in either Frank or Chris.  I don't think either has done a bad job, given what they had to deal with in the QB carousel.  But life isn't fair and neither is the NFL.  And the Colts probably won't pick high enough to assume they can find a QB so unless Sean really likes Ehlinger it's going to be a hard sell.

 

This is why I say I would just clean house now and open up full pursuit of Sean Payton.  He is a clear upgrade over Frank.  If he keeps Chris around he will make him better, but he's also well connected around the league and will help make a strong GM hire.  And I'd offer him the biggest contract in the NFL, though he'll probably get that no matter who inks him.

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Staley, the coach for the Chargers, was a missed kick by the Browns from being fired.  If they miss the playoffs again, I expect them to fire Staley & make a hard charge at Payton.  They’re the team I fear that Payton would choose over us because they have the QB of the future and we don’t. That division could be hell for the next decade though.  So he may have more opportunities at playoff success in Indy.  I truly believe he could take our current weapons and have us being a top 5-10 offense just by maximizing our guys strengths and exploiting mismatches. 

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4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

You are correct on Frank - We agree

 

CB brings in the players..... the QB problem is the first thing to solve.... I mean FIRST THING

 

I dont want to give up the future in a draft trade (I remember Jeff George  :(  trade )

 

However.....

 

We have had MANY drafts come and go......   and we still dont have the QB of the future

 

THATS on the GM

 

The number of teams that won a SB without a top 5 QB HAS to be less than 5%

 

Its a joke to the league, and even to the Colts players..... that we are on our 5th QB in 5 years 

 

 

Would you rather have a HOF Guard or a top 5 QB?

 

I am taking the QB.... every time

 

Just saying

 

 

 

 

 

Didn’t we have Andrew Luck when Nelson was, Smith, and Leonard were drafted?  Just not sure y people keep bringing up drafting a QB instead of a guard.  What am I missing?

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5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Staley, the coach for the Chargers, was a missed kick by the Browns from being fired.  If they miss the playoffs again, I expect them to fire Staley & make a hard charge at Payton.  They’re the team I fear that Payton would choose over us because they have the QB of the future and we don’t. That division could be hell for the next decade though.  So he may have more opportunities at playoff success in Indy.  I truly believe he could take our current weapons and have us being a top 5-10 offense just by maximizing our guys strengths and exploiting mismatches. 

Yeah the moment Staley is fired they become the front runner due to that QB.  But the owner is a *.  And SP has been around long enough to know a * owner when he meets one.  So hopefully they won't end up with him.

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8 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Staley, the coach for the Chargers, was a missed kick by the Browns from being fired.  If they miss the playoffs again, I expect them to fire Staley & make a hard charge at Payton.  They’re the team I fear that Payton would choose over us because they have the QB of the future and we don’t. That division could be hell for the next decade though.  So he may have more opportunities at playoff success in Indy.  I truly believe he could take our current weapons and have us being a top 5-10 offense just by maximizing our guys strengths and exploiting mismatches. 

 

I wonder if he would stay in the state of Texas by coaching the Texans instead who will have their shot at a new QB in the draft. 

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2 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Didn’t we have Andrew Luck when Nelson was, Smith, and Leonard were drafted?  Just not sure y people keep bringing up drafting a QB instead of a guard.  What am I missing?

Thanks for the catch

 

The value of the line is much higher than a developing QB (Buckner pick trade) with CB 

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On 10/4/2022 at 2:58 PM, coming on strong said:

Frank is gonna be the new scapegoat now . First it’s lucks fault ,then it’s wentz’s fault. This year it’s  the kickers fault ,now it’s franks fault .      At what point is it Ballards fault ? When the new coach under performs is it on Ballard ? 

He's no new scapegoat. Several around here including myself have been calling for either a new coach or for Reich to give up play calling the past 3 seasons minimally. Rigo missed several kicks and deserved to be cut and his replacement just won us a game. When you have young athletic players who are performing well that see less and less snaps is that on the coach or a GM? When a player who is known for beating press man doesnt get the chance to run a go route until the game is nearly decided, is that on Ballard? I can guess about 95% of the offensive plays before the snap, so if I can then competent DC's can as well but thats on Ballard as well? Ballard should have never let go of Autry and Reed, and he's definitely has his flaws but every single GM does. I'd take Chris over 30 other GM's right now.

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43 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I wonder if he would stay in the state of Texas by coaching the Texans instead who will have their shot at a new QB in the draft. 

That’s a scary thought.  Because they will have a shot at one of the top QB’s.  But they still have a lot of foundation to build so I don’t know if he’d want to take on a longer term project like the Texans.  He’d probably be more inclined to deal with Jerry & go the Cowboys route. 

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3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

That’s a scary thought.  Because they will have a shot at one of those QB’s.  But they still have a lot of foundation to build so I don’t know if he’d want to take on a longer term project like the Texans.  He’d probably be more inclined to deal with Jerry & go the Cowboys route. 

 

Texans have the draft ammunition to get talent in a year or two, they are not that far away, to be honest. They truly haven't been blown out in their games. Their worst loss was a 10 point loss to the Chargers. Once the QB and the offense are in place, with a year or two of draft picks, they could be division contenders with Sean Payton. At least that is my sales pitch to him, if I were Texans management.

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1 hour ago, Boondoggle said:

Yeah Sean would want full roster control.  No way Jerruh gives him that.  The Cowboys are his personal train set.

 

I expect the Colts will end up being in the mix for SP simply because the owner has been exasperated since last season and I don't think he has faith in either Frank or Chris.  I don't think either has done a bad job, given what they had to deal with in the QB carousel.  But life isn't fair and neither is the NFL.  And the Colts probably won't pick high enough to assume they can find a QB so unless Sean really likes Ehlinger it's going to be a hard sell.

 

This is why I say I would just clean house now and open up full pursuit of Sean Payton.  He is a clear upgrade over Frank.  If he keeps Chris around he will make him better, but he's also well connected around the league and will help make a strong GM hire.  And I'd offer him the biggest contract in the NFL, though he'll probably get that no matter who inks him.

I doubt Sean even comes close to coming here.

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2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Texans have the draft ammunition to get talent in a year or two, they are not that far away, to be honest. They truly haven't been blown out in their games. Their worst loss was a 10 point loss to the Chargers. Once the QB and the offense are in place, with a year or two of draft picks, they could be division contenders with Sean Payton. At least that is my sales pitch to him, if I were Texans management.

Yeah.  They’re really not a bad team.  They’ve been competitive.  And they are stacked on the draft capital.  And I do mean stacked. The problem is their their offensive weapons are even worse than ours.  And their GM is nuts.  But they are setup nicely for someone to come in and have excellent draft capital to rebuild quickly.  Sell it as he get to build his own team type of situation.  Because even if they don’t finish last they’ll be within range of trading for the top pick if they wanted.

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13 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Texans have the draft ammunition to get talent in a year or two, they are not that far away, to be honest. They truly haven't been blown out in their games. Their worst loss was a 10 point loss to the Chargers. Once the QB and the offense are in place, with a year or two of draft picks, they could be division contenders with Sean Payton. At least that is my sales pitch to him, if I were Texans management.

That could get scary. Sean Payton loaded with draft capital to get a young franchise QB in Houston.  Pederson & his young franchise QB Lawrence in Jacksonville.  And Vrabel in Nashville. I don’t think Frank could hang if those are gonna be his division coaching rivals.  Not coaching like he is currently anyway.  

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3 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Didn’t we have Andrew Luck when Nelson was, Smith, and Leonard were drafted?  Just not sure y people keep bringing up drafting a QB instead of a guard.  What am I missing?

 

We had a QB coming off multiple major injuries. He had been in Europe for special treatment. On top of the injury history everyone knew Luck was a different kind a guy who had interests outside of football.  People including myself made comments when he was drafted about how he seemed like a guy who didn't live and breath football and as soon as the injuries started piling up the warning bells should have been going off.

 

I can't believe there weren't signs that Lucks interest in football wasn't what it once was...his retirement should not have came as a total surprise to Ballard.  For someone who supposedly puts so much emphasis on character and football passion, and even has his ex special forces mind guy...that was an epic fail on Ballards part. The way he mishandled the AC retirement, the Luck retirement, and some players leaving shows he is lacking in his ability identifying and preparing...and frequently gets stuck reacting and trying to fill holes instead of being proactive.

 

The Nelson pick should have been Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson...this is QB driven league and how often do we get in the position to trade down wn to acquire assets and still get a QB. We could have traded down again and still gotten Lamar Jackson and had enough picks to protect luck, add weapons and still got an insurance policy QB. This was an epic fail by Ballard.

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20 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

We had a QB coming off multiple major injuries. He had been in Europe for special treatment. On top of the injury history everyone knew Luck was a different kind a guy who had interests outside of football.  People including myself made comments when he was drafted about how he seemed like a guy who didn't live and breath football and as soon as the injuries started piling up the warning bells should have been going off.

 

I can't believe there weren't signs that Lucks interest in football wasn't what it once was...his retirement should not have came as a total surprise to Ballard.  For someone who supposedly puts so much emphasis on character and football passion, and even has his ex special forces mind guy...that was an epic fail on Ballards part. The way he mishandled the AC retirement, the Luck retirement, and some players leaving shows he is lacking in his ability identifying and preparing...and frequently gets stuck reacting and trying to fill holes instead of being proactive.

 

The Nelson pick should have been Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson...this is QB driven league and how often do we get in the position to trade down wn to acquire assets and still get a QB. We could have traded down again and still gotten Lamar Jackson and had enough picks to protect luck, add weapons and still got an insurance policy QB. This was an epic fail by Ballard.

I disagree it was the next year we should have went qb.so we would have missed out on Allen and jackson regardless

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17 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

We had a QB coming off multiple major injuries. He had been in Europe for special treatment. On top of the injury history everyone knew Luck was a different kind a guy who had interests outside of football.  People including myself made comments when he was drafted about how he seemed like a guy who didn't live and breath football and as soon as the injuries started piling up the warning bells should have been going off.

 

I can't believe there weren't signs that Lucks interest in football wasn't what it once was...his retirement should not have came as a total surprise to Ballard.  For someone who supposedly puts so much emphasis on character and football passion, and even has his ex special forces mind guy...that was an epic fail on Ballards part. The way he mishandled the AC retirement, the Luck retirement, and some players leaving shows he is lacking in his ability identifying and preparing...and frequently gets stuck reacting and trying to fill holes instead of being proactive.

 

The Nelson pick should have been Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson...this is QB driven league and how often do we get in the position to trade down wn to acquire assets and still get a QB. We could have traded down again and still gotten Lamar Jackson and had enough picks to protect luck, add weapons and still got an insurance policy QB. This was an epic fail by Ballard.

Ballard actually knew Luck. He actually spent time around him.

 

But you, someone who doesnt know or spend time around him at all feel like you have enough info to say he should have known Luck would retire in the middle of his prime?

 

Cmon. All players have interests outside of football. Thats not some kind of red flag. 

 

He had a kid and his perspective on his life changed. And I personally believe it had a lot to do with pain killers, which hasnt really been talked about. Pain killers have taken the lives of thousands and thousands of people and they are nothing to play with. If you cant play football without constantly taking them, it is probably a smart decision to walk away.

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3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I disagree it was the next year we should have went qb.so we would have missed out on Allen and jackson regardless

 

Not when you are already choosing as high as we were in 2018...you don't know how low you are going to be picking the next year. The 2018 draft we get to move down acquire picks and still get a QB.

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8 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Ballard actually knew Luck. He actually spent time around him.

 

But you, someone who doesnt know or spend time around him at all feel like you have enough info to say he should have known Luck would retire in the middle of his prime?

 

Cmon. All players have interests outside of football. Thats not some kind of red flag. 

 

He had a kid and his perspective on his life changed. And I personally believe it had a lot to do with pain killers, which hasnt really been talked about. Pain killers have taken the lives of thousands and thousands of people and they are nothing to play with. If you cant play football without constantly taking them, it is probably a smart decision to walk away.

 

The fact he knew and was around him all the time is exactly why he should have had an idea. Even if he wasn't 100% sure you take the insurance policy.

 

Most players have interests outside of football, but if you didn't notice Luck was a different kind a guy from the beginning yu weren't looking.  Even before he got hurt he didn't seem like a guy who was uldnt be just as happy doing his architecture.  The possibility he had the personality he could up and leave was obvious to me from the beginning. Others made comments about it as well. Ballard should have always had that in the back of his head....it's a blind space t for him in general.

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Just now, esmort said:

 

The fact he knew and was around h is exactly why he should have had an idea. Even if he wasn't 100% sure you take the insurance policy.

 

Most players have interests outside of football, but if you didn't notice Luck was a different kind a guy from the beginning yu weren't looking.  Even before he got hurt he didn't seem like a guy who was uldnt be just as happy doing his architecture.  The possibility he had the personality he could up and leave was obvious to me from the beginning. Others made comments about it as well. Ballard should have always had that in the back of his head....it's a blind space t for him in general.

I didnt see that at all.

 

I thought Andrew had a unique love of the game. He clearly loved to play. He showed as much enthusiasm on the field as anyone. That changed at some point. 

 

Ballard isnt a psychic and expecting him to read peoples minds is unreasonable.

 

Nobody drafts a QB high when they already have a franchise QB just entering his prime. Nobody does that, ever. Give me one example of a team ever doing that effectively? Those kinds of things create a QB controversy. But you expect Ballard to do it anyways? Cmon.

 

The only team that ever did anything close to that was the Packers and both times they had a QB in his mid to late 30s and were thinking more conventionally about a succession plan. Both times it caused issues with the team and the fanbase.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

I didnt see that at all.

 

I thought Andrew had a unique love of the game. He clearly loved to play. He showed as much enthusiasm on the field as anyone. That changed at some point. 

 

Ballard isnt a psychic and expecting him to read peoples minds is unreasonable.

 

Nobody drafts a QB high when they already have a franchise QB just entering his prime. Nobody does that, ever. Give me one example of a team ever doing that effectively? Those kinds of things create a QB controversy. But you expect Ballard to do it anyways? Cmon.

 

The only team that ever did anything close to that was the Packers and both times they had a QB in his mid to late 30s and were thinking more conventionally about a succession plan. Both times it caused issues with the team and the fanbase.

 

 

 

We seen different things in his personality then. I don't disagree he was passionate about football, just that he had other passions that he would have been just as happy pursuing.

 

You don't have to be a psychic or read someone's mind to see a change in how they act on relation to somthing, how they talk, or get a feeling. People in the tops of their fields in many industries can see things developing and get a read on people.  Ballard seems exceptionally bad at it.

 

There probably isn't a direct comparison, but the injuries made the younger age a non factor...similar situations would be the Packers as you mentioned, Brees, Wentz kinda, Ariz drafted Murray #1 one year after drafting Rosen at 10...I am sure there are similar situations I am missing. The point is it wouldn't be as crazy as you are implying given all the circumstances at play.

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Just now, esmort said:

 

We seen different things in his personality then. I don't disagree he was passionate about football, just that he had other passions that he would have been just as happy pursuing.

 

You don't have to be a psychic or read someone's mind to see a change in how they act on relation to somthing, how they talk, or get a feeling. People in the tops of their fields in many injuries can see things developing and get a read on people.  Ballard seems exceptionally bad at it.

 

There probably isn't a direct comparison, but the injuries made the younger age a non factor...similar situations would be the Packers as you mentioned, Brees, Wentz kinda, Ariz drafted Murray #1 one year after drafting Rosen at 10...I am sure there are similar situations I am missing. The point is it wouldn't be as crazy as you are implying given all the circumstances at play.

My point was, that kind of move causes a problem every single time. 

 

Rosen wasnt established. He was never a player the caliber of Luck.

 

Wentz had essentially 1 good year. Again, was nowhere near the caliber of Luck.

 

Brees wasnt Brees at that point in his career and wasnt playing well.

 

Im talking about drafting a QB when you already have a top young QB already. It has never happened. There is a reason for that.

 

I dont even really know what you mean when you say he showed signs he would be ok walking away early. I never saw any of that. I dont even know any other QBs who have done what Andrew did, to do a proper analysis of what kind of top QBs retire in their prime. Because it just doesnt happen.

 

I also didnt hear anyone really saying that before he retired and now they look back and all suggest they knew it all along. I never heard anyone suggest he was gonna retire that early, ever. Which is what made it so shocking. 

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On 10/4/2022 at 12:33 AM, EastStreet said:

Conversely, Brees was bad before he went to play for Payton...... 

 

Tell me a better OC now (for multiple years). 

Drew Brees was on the Chargers for five seasons. In 59 games, he threw for a total of 12,348 yards, 80 touchdowns and 53 interceptions. He finished with an overall quarterback rating of 84.9.Oct 6, 2021

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2 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

My point was, that kind of move causes a problem every single time. 

 

Rosen wasnt established. He was never a player the caliber of Luck.

 

Wentz had essentially 1 good year. Again, was nowhere near the caliber of Luck.

 

Brees wasnt Brees at that point in his career and wasnt playing well.

 

Im talking about drafting a QB when you already have a top young QB already. It has never happened. There is a reason for that.

 

I dont even really know what you mean when you say he showed signs he would be ok walking away early. I never saw any of that. I dont even know any other QBs who have done what Andrew did, to do a proper analysis of what kind of top QBs retire in their prime. Because it just doesnt happen.

 

I also didnt hear anyone really saying that before he retired and now they look back and all suggest they knew it all along. I never heard anyone suggest he was gonna retire that early, ever. Which is what made it so shocking. 

 

I said there is no exact comparison. But the frequency and severity of injuries negates his younger age. There wouldn't have been a QB controversy as long as Luck continued playing at a high level.  

 

I didn't say he showed signs to the public of walking away early...I said he had a personality that I thought would make it easier/more likely to walk away than other players of his caliber; and that I believe there were probably signs of shifting priorities,..etc to those in the Colts building before he announced his retirement that would be noticeable. 

 

It doesn't happen until it does(Nobody got a contract like D Watson until they did, now Lamar will likely get one too)...but situations have been close enough that it would not be that outrageous of a move; and with the increasing importance of the QB position moves to insure the QB position will become more common. I would have supported it if we had taken a QB before Luck retired. I doubt I'm the only one.

 

I was shocked how and when he announced retirement, but not THAT he retired so early given his injury history and personality.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. I think Nelson pick was a mistake (even if I had not drafted a QB I never would have drafted a guard there), and Ballard should have suspected and taken steps to protect the QB position. How he bungled the AC/left tackle situation after it was obvious to most everyone AC had one foot out the door just reinforces my opinion that he did messed with Luck and our QB situation...ignored signs and cost the Colts years of mediocrity.

 

 

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1 hour ago, esmort said:

 

I said there is no exact comparison. But the frequency and severity of injuries negates his younger age. There wouldn't have been a QB controversy as long as Luck continued playing at a high level.  

 

I didn't say he showed signs to the public of walking away early...I said he had a personality that I thought would make it easier/more likely to walk away than other players of his caliber; and that I believe there were probably signs of shifting priorities,..etc to those in the Colts building before he announced his retirement that would be noticeable. 

 

It doesn't happen until it does(Nobody got a contract like D Watson until they did, now Lamar will likely get one too)...but situations have been close enough that it would not be that outrageous of a move; and with the increasing importance of the QB position moves to insure the QB position will become more common. I would have supported it if we had taken a QB before Luck retired. I doubt I'm the only one.

 

I was shocked how and when he announced retirement, but not THAT he retired so early given his injury history and personality.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. I think Nelson pick was a mistake (even if I had not drafted a QB I never would have drafted a guard there), and Ballard should have suspected and taken steps to protect the QB position. How he bungled the AC/left tackle situation after it was obvious to most everyone AC had one foot out the door just reinforces my opinion that he did messed with Luck and our QB situation...ignored signs and cost the Colts years of mediocrity.

 

 

I definitely disagree with you on the Nelson pick, because he hit on 2 All Pro players and a decent right tackle.  I totally agree with you on the A/C situation.  Completely whiffed on that one.

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16 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I definitely disagree with you on the Nelson pick, because he hit on 2 All Pro players and a decent right tackle.  I totally agree with you on the A/C situation.  Completely whiffed on that one.

 

A guard at 6 is a waste ... A non premium position at a premium price. Regardless of how good he is at that position he is only one piece of the offensive line; not even the most important piece. A QB, WR, DE, can change the course of the game almost single handedly. No matter how good Nelson plays he isn't a going to be able to effect the course of the game at that level.  When you get a pick that high to you get a game changer or at least a LT.

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29 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

A guard at 6 is a waste ... A non premium position at a premium price. Regardless of how good he is at that position he is only one piece of the offensive line; not even the most important piece. A QB, WR, DE, can change the course of the game almost single handedly. No matter how good Nelson plays he isn't a going to be able to effect the course of the game at that level.  When you get a pick that high to you get a game changer or at least a LT.

Well they weren’t gonna draft a QB because they had Luck, the best WRs available were DJ Moore and Calvin Ridley. Neither have done anything the latter not even playing this year and they could of gone DE with Chubb or Davenport but neither have really become gamewreckers. The fact is we were in desperate need of OL that draft and they ended with a player that has been top 3 at his position. I didn’t like the pick when it was made but it was the right pick. 

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