Has Taylor regressed?

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I don't know where's you've been, but I've seen dozens of people compare JT to Peterson. I'm just saying JT has not shown up. Is he top 2? Course he is. Has he been this season? Not even close.

how am i putting words in your mouth? you literally just said it. 

 

 

"You want today? Henry ate us alive yesterday with his best linemen on IR and no WRs on the outside that anyone respects." - CR91

 

By simple deduction you're saying "Henry can do it and Taylor can't"

 

If you are going to walk around with a blindfold on, and just make random statements about random players, then there is no value in this discussion. it is very very clear to any one who watches football that our offensive line has been trash. the play calling has been trash. the turnover differential has been trash. that's the reality.

 

the offensive unit as a whole has regressed. taylor is still the best running back in the league next to Henry. 

 

adding little disclaimers like "but not this season" is worthless. it only points further to how pointless the conversation is regarding taylor regressing. its clearly the line and play caller. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Rogers speed off the edge is nice

It was very nice closing speed.  He did a heck of a job when we played KC too causing incompletions.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

how am i putting words in your mouth? you literally just said it. 

 

 

"You want today? Henry ate us alive yesterday with his best linemen on IR and no WRs on the outside that anyone respects." - CR91

 

By simple deduction you're saying "Henry can do it and Taylor can't"

 

If you are going to walk around with a blindfold on, and just make random statements about random players, then there is no value in this discussion. it is very very clear to any one who watches football that our offensive line has been trash. the play calling has been trash. the turnover differential has been trash. that's the reality.

 

the offensive unit as a whole has regressed. taylor is still the best running back in the league next to Henry. 

 

 

You just said I don't think he's top 2. Where did I say that? I said he's not playing at the level we've come to expect from him. Poor oline aside, I pointed out missing opening holes, hesitant running, and poor blitz pickup. Has Taylor done any of that well this year?

[Indy87]

Frank has lost the team. The whole team has regressed. 
 

in the military there are generals men would die for, and generals men wouldn’t do % for. But some how the NFL is different and that stuff doesn’t matter. Frank is not a leader of men. 

[AKB]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

You just said I don't think he's top 2. Where did I say that? I said he's not playing at the level we've come to expect from him. Poor oline aside, I pointed out missing opening holes, hesitant running, and poor blitz pickup. Has Taylor done any of that well this year?

you made a statement that Henry is playing well despite missing Olineman, despite this or that... do you know what an inference is? or deductive reasoning? i can make follow up conclusions based on your line of statements. you're inferring Taylor hasn't been able to play well despite having issues with Oline, and players around him.. otherwise why bring Henry up? You are making a comparison. 

this conversation does seem pointless though, including this entire thread. Taylor has clearly not regressed. He's dealing with a toe injury, and a bad coach. that's where the regression is. Reich, Pinter, Kelly, and Pryor plus Ryan and his butter fingers

[CR91]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

you made a statement that Henry is playing well despite missing Olineman, despite this or that... do you know what an inference is? or deductive reasoning? i can make follow up conclusions based on your line of statements. you're inferring Taylor hasn't been able to play well despite having issues with Oline, and players around him.. otherwise why bring Henry up? You are making a comparison. 

this conversation does seem pointless though, including this entire thread. Taylor has clearly not regressed. He's dealing with a toe injury, and a bad coach. that's where the regression is. Reich, Pinter, Kelly, and Pryor plus Ryan and his butter fingers

 

You said compare his situation to a player playing today and I brought up Henry since you didn't want me comparing him to Peterson. What am I missing? Is it so wrong to look at other factors then just what everyone else wants to blame? I said it before I even mentioned Taylor, the oline play is bad. Guess what, great backs have excelled in bad offenses or poor oline play. That's all I'm saying.

[AKB]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

You said compare his situation to a player playing today and I brought up Henry since you didn't want me comparing him to Peterson. What am I missing? Is it so wrong to look at other factors then just what everyone else wants to blame? I said it before I even mentioned Taylor, the oline play is bad. Guess what, great backs have excelled in bad offenses or poor oline play. That's all I'm saying.

oh you're confused a little.. i didn't say compare him to anyone. i was making a statement, he is compared to the elite running backs in the league right now, i don't like comparing current players to retired ones. taylor is his own beast. henry is his own beast. both of them are different, and both of them are absolutely dominant. 

but regardless of any of that, this thread's topic is pointless. the offensive unit has regressed. not taylor. clear coaching issue across the board on offense. 

and sure great backs excel in bad situations. but are those situations exactly the same as what we see here? no they're not. the fact of the matter is we haven't scored more than 20 points in six games. 

[azcolt]

Though pro running holes are tiny compared to college, a running back still needs a better line than this overpaid bunch.

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

oh you're confused a little.. i didn't say compare him to anyone. i was making a statement, he is compared to the elite running backs in the league right now, i don't like comparing current players to retired ones. taylor is his own beast. henry is his own beast. both of them are different, and both of them are absolutely dominant. 

but regardless of any of that, this thread's topic is pointless. the offensive unit has regressed. not taylor. clear coaching issue across the board on offense. 

and sure great backs excel in bad situations. but are those situations exactly the same as what we see here? no they're not. the fact of the matter is we haven't scored more than 20 points in six games. 

 

I can make an argument there were worse. Look at Sanders career with the Lions. His team was always bad, but he carved out an HOF career. Edge you can make an argument was the biggest reason the colts won 13 games in 1999 because Peyton wasn't Peyton yet. The year before, the colts were terrible. Steven Jackson for years was on terrible Rams teams and was still one of the best backs in his time.

[dw49]

20 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I just saw a video. Posted it in the other thread. Rodgers made such a difference in that second half on Henry and finally out snapped facyson. Bradley finally seeing what he can do in the run game too.

 

 

Why is it that most of us had Rodgers > Facyson at the end of training camp. Why is it that most of us were perplexed at why Rodgers was not even given a snap in the first 2 games. Then in the middle of game 4 , he gets playing time and was excellent. Does it make one wonder if we have some bad judges of talent or was it favoritism ? In any event , IMO it's a bad look for our coaching stafff.

[RollerColt]

Injuries, coaching, line regression, lack of supporting talent… all of the above? 

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I can make an argument they were worse. Look at Sanders career with the Lions. His team was always bad, but he carved out an HOF career. Edge you can make an argument was the biggest reason the colts won 13 games in 1999 because Peyton wasn't Peyton yet. The year before, the colts were terrible. Steven Jackson for years was on terrible Rams teams and was still one of the best backs in his time.

but why are you comparing him to barry sanders?

Wouldnt nick chubb, saquan barkley, josh jacobs, kamara, mccafferry all be better comparisons? i don't get it...

you talk about people comparing him to greats... but here you are doing it. point to where Kareem hunt, Chubb, mccafferry, kamara didnt have bad spurts during times when their team was doing bad overall? 

you can't because they all had the same type of bad spurts, including Henry. so in conclusion, this thread is pointless, and you are grasping at straws. might as well blame taylor in a reich or ballard thread so everyone can just tell you the offense is trash , and it isnt taylor. 

[EastStreet]

Unless you're willing to ignore all indicators, stats, grades, eyes, etc.. 

 

You'd know his YBC is better this season (means OL keeps him clean farther), and that's backed by OL grades (run block) being slightly better over last season... 

 

And if you watch games, and pay any attention to opponent's D.... you'd notice super shallow defense, and also lot of obvious calls (runs straight to stacked boxes)...

 

OL is not great, but they are not the issue.

It's play calling, and opponents D. 

[CR91]

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

but why are you comparing him to barry sanders?

Wouldnt nick chubb, saquan barkley, josh jacobs, kamara, mccafferry all be better comparisons? i don't get it...

you talk about people comparing him to greats... but here you are doing it. point to where Kareem hunt, Chubb, mccafferry, kamara didnt have bad spurts during times when their team was doing bad overall? 

you can't because they all had the same type of bad spurts, including Henry. so in conclusion, this thread is pointless, and you are grasping at straws. might as well blame taylor in a reich or ballard thread so everyone can just tell you the offense is trash , and it isnt taylor. 

 

Ok Nick Chubb is leading the league in rushing with Jacoby Flipping Brissett at QB. You think teams don't know who's getting the ball?

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok Nick Chubb is leading the league in rushing with Jacoby Flipping Brissett at QB. You think teams don't know who's getting the ball?

their line is the best in the league next to PHI ?

 

and why are you only responding to partial ? the comparison should be in relation to them having bad spurts why are you missing the obvious? and say what you want about Brissett but he hasnt fumbled 10 times, and they aren't 32nd in points scored. 

 

 

[Matabix]

Losing Doyle hurts he run blocked almost like an OL. Glow, while he sucked at pass protect he was a mauler for the run game. Those 2 factors I think is key. I figured going into this year we would have less rushing yards, but more passing yards. That has come true. What I didn't think is that we would have a QB on pace for 34 fumbles, and lack of causing fumbles/ turnovers.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

their line is the best in the league next to PHI ?

 

and why are you only responding to partial ? the comparison should be in relation to them having bad spurts why are you missing the obvious? 

 

No argument there, but the point still stands. All I'm saying is Taylor deserves the crumbs of the blame pie. The offense is supposed to go through him. Everyone knew that and right now the offense including Taylor need to play better. There's no problem saying your best player isn't himself.

[AKB]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Unless you're willing to ignore all indicators, stats, grades, eyes, etc.. 

 

You'd know his YBC is better this season (means OL keeps him clean farther), and that's backed by OL grades (run block) being slightly better over last season... 

 

And if you watch games, and pay any attention to opponent's D.... you'd notice super shallow defense, and also lot of obvious calls (runs straight to stacked boxes)...

 

OL is not great, but they are not the issue.

It's play calling, and opponents D. 

agreed. the OL hasn't been great but imo they're even worse at run blocking.. to even consider the possibility taylor is regressing you'd literally have to be ignoring every single compounding factor in football. this discussion is not warranted at this time

[AKB]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

No argument there, but the point still stands. All I'm saying is Taylor desires the crumbs of the blame pie. The offense is supposed to go through him. Everyone knew that and right now the offense including Taylor need to play better. There's no problem saying your best player isn't himself.

well that's not what you're saying. you're trying to say he has regressed. typically when that term is used people mean that the player has gotten worse. his statistics have gotten worse, because the overall offense has gotten worse. but i suppose if giving taylor his crumb of blame makes you feel better then im all for it. 

[BlackTiger]

Maybe a little ?  I thought he missed some reads yesterday and the fumble was kind of bad

 

 

[AKB]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

Maybe a little ?  I thought he missed some reads yesterday and the fumble was kind of bad

 

 

are pass blocking assigments his responsibility? i mean obviously he has to block the guy he is assigned to. but when it comes down to who is checking and making the assignements... isn't that on Kelly and Ryan? 

i mean on some plays he isnt even running to the correct side of the QB to block the guy... seems more like a scheme/protection issue, not a regression. 

he also fumbled reaching out to get the first down. many people will fumble when they are extending the ball out to get a first down, and a grown 250 pound man smacks the ball. it's not like he got trucked in a run and fumbles from strength or grip issues. so no, i don't think so

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

LOL, the F'Frankers.  Its the same play calls...with different results.  That means that it isn't the play calls.

 

The answer would lie in what is different from last year, not in what is the same as last year....duh.

 

Answer:

 

2021 Fisher > 2022 Pryor (run blocking)

2021 Glow > 2022 Pinter

2021 mid season Wentz > 2022 early season Ryan.

Smith first 4 games 2021 = Smith first 4 games 2022...IOW bad.

2021 Nelson = 2022 Nelson, but WITHOUT the injuries

Or maybe the league has figured out how to defend the Frank Reich offense. And Frank hasn’t adjusted?

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

agreed. the OL hasn't been great but imo they're even worse at run blocking.. to even consider the possibility taylor is regressing you'd literally have to be ignoring every single compounding factor in football. this discussion is not warranted at this time

 

I just responded the same in JT2021/2022 thread... 

was a thread to compare/discuss with stats lol...

now another/same thread without stats...

 

 

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I just responded the same in JT2021/2022 thread... 

was a thread to compare/discuss with stats lol...

now another/same thread without stats...

 

 

stats are great but don't tell the whole picture. just watch the game. its as clear as day. the defense knows what we are doing

but also another interesting stat/fact: JT has never rushed for over 100 yards versus the titans.  (4 total games)

^ what does that tell me? Vrabel > Reich

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

are pass blocking assigments his responsibility? i mean obviously he has to block the guy he is assigned to. but when it comes down to who is checking and making the assignements... isn't that on Kelly and Ryan? 

i mean on some plays he isnt even running to the correct side of the QB to block the guy... seems more like a scheme/protection issue, not a regression. 

he also fumbled reaching out to get the first down. many people will fumble when they are extending the ball out to get a first down, and a grown 250 pound man smacks the ball. it's not like he got trucked in a run and fumbles from strength or grip issues. so no, i don't think so

 

So when Taylor whiffs a block, that's not his fault? 

[CR91]

16 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

well that's not what you're saying. you're trying to say he has regressed. typically when that term is used people mean that the player has gotten worse. his statistics have gotten worse, because the overall offense has gotten worse. but i suppose if giving taylor his crumb of blame makes you feel better then im all for it. 

 

Because from what I see, he's not running hard. Maybe that's just me, but Taylor is dancing at the line like he did as a rookie. I'm just not seeing the quick burst up the field and I get it the line is garbage as is the rest of the offense. I'm just not seeing the same runner. 

[John Waylon]

You can’t see how many hemorrhoids there are until the diarrhea stops. 
 

As long as frank is in charge, the stream of diarrhea stays replenished and flowing freely. 
 

I’m not looking too much into anything at all until then. Get rid of your biggest problem first and then work your way down from there. Addition by subtraction, they call it. 

[EastStreet]

25 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

stats are great but don't tell the whole picture. just watch the game. its as clear as day. the defense knows what we are doing

but also another interesting stat/fact: JT has never rushed for over 100 yards versus the titans.  (4 total games)

^ what does that tell me? Vrabel > Reich

 

Need eyes and stats. 

And eyes are not all same. We have knowledgeable eyes (know what they are seeing) and clueless eyes. 

When eyes (knowledgeable eyes) and stats tell you the same, it's pretty obvious. 

[Mr.Debonair]

The OL stinks and def is getting their ish pushed in. The play calling is also a negative.

 

However, Taylor is dancing and missing holes. He is not running with the same conviction and confidence as before. I think he’s missed multiple holes in the past two weeks. He’s quick to run into the back of the lineman.

 

Regressed isn’t the correct word but he def is

off his game

[ShuteAt168]

Are stretch plays harder to block than runs between the tackles — serious question because I don’t know. Manning’s Colts used the stretch play to great effect. I haven’t seen any other Colts teams use it. 

[1959Colts]

The Titans starting MLB was out with an injury... and still, our O-line, made their 2nd stringer look like Dick Butkus.

[PRnum1]

Yes he's regressed. 

 

The stats don't lie and his fumble late in the game was a killer. We were about to tie the game up driving on TN 20 yard line with 8 minutes left in the game. As bad as things went we were in a position to tie the game.

 

20 rushes for 42 yards for a 2.1 yard average. Nothing in the passing game. Thats 20 rushing opportunities with nothing to show for it.

 

Henry ran for 114 yards 1 TD and a 5.2 yard average with 33 yards in the passing game.

 

Why do we crucify Ryan and give Taylor a complete pass ?

[Mr.Debonair]

1 minute ago, 1959Colts said:

The Titans starting MLB was out with an injury... and still, our O-line, made their 2nd stringer look like Dick Butkus.

Our O-line or just the offense or general has to have a tell on certain run plays. It was almost like the blitzed each time JT was running like they knew it was coming

[Mr.Debonair]

1 minute ago, PRnum1 said:

Yes he's regressed. 

 

The stats don't lie and his fumble late in the game was a killer. We were about to tie the game up driving on TN 20 yard line with 8 minutes left in the game.

 

20 rushes for 42 yards for a 2.1 yard average. Nothing in the passing game. Thats 20 rushing opportunities with nothing to show for it.

 

Henry ran for 114 yards 1 TD and a 5.2 yard average with 33 yards in the passing game.

 

Why do we crucify Ryan and give Taylor a complete pass ?

It’s not as simple as Henry did this vs Taylor did that. They aren’t running behind the same lines vs the same defenses.

 

I am in agreement that JT shares some blame 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, FanOutOfTown said:

Pretty much sums it up. Ryan is getting blasted and seeing ghosts so he’s either missing open guys or not calling the correct protections at the line. Line is getting no push so Taylor can’t do anything.

 

 

Maybe we r over thinking this. Pryor is an average talent at  best. No RG to speak of and maybe this. Smith, Kelly and Nelson hit their peaks a year or two ago. Teams have come to know who they are and maybe their weaknesses. Just could be that they simply are not elite anymore and some injuries have caught ip with them. Just simply stated, they r not who we thought they were.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Because from what I see, he's not running hard. Maybe that's just me, but Taylor is dancing at the line like he did as a rookie. I'm just not seeing the quick burst up the field and I get it the line is garbage as is the rest of the offense. I'm just not seeing the same runner. 

In case you haven’t noticed….   No one has supported you here.   No one poster.   But You keep telling everyone they’re wrong and you’re right.   
 

It was the same when you were worried this summer if we’d be able to fill out a 90-man roster.    No one backed you.  
 

It was the same when you said Matt Ryan was brought in to throw 20-25 times.  His job was to hand off to JT because we were a running team.   No one backed you.   
 

It was the same when you said we’d use JT as much if not more than last year because we were a running team.   No one backed you.  
 

Each time you started with a flawed premise and kept telling everyone else they were wrong and you were right.   You even started this thread wondering if JTs ego was out of control.   
 

It’s stunning how badly you’ve misread this situation. 

[NewColtsFan]

37 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Yes he's regressed. 

 

The stats don't lie and his fumble late in the game was a killer. We were about to tie the game up driving on TN 20 yard line with 8 minutes left in the game. As bad as things went we were in a position to tie the game.

 

20 rushes for 42 yards for a 2.1 yard average. Nothing in the passing game. Thats 20 rushing opportunities with nothing to show for it.

 

Henry ran for 114 yards 1 TD and a 5.2 yard average with 33 yards in the passing game.

 

Why do we crucify Ryan and give Taylor a complete pass ?

No one is giving JT a complete pass.  Posters are simply trying to give badly needed context to a flawed theory.   A theory that says Taylor is mostly responsible for his decline.   That’s a flawed theory. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

In case you haven’t noticed….   No one has supported you here.   No one poster.   But You keep telling everyone they’re wrong and you’re right.   
 

It was the same when you were worried this summer if we’d be able to fill out a 90-man roster.    No one backed you.  
 

It was the same when you said Matt Ryan was brought in to throw 20-25 times.  His job was to hand off to JT because we were a running team.   No one backed you.   
 

It was the same when you said we’d use JT as much if not more than last year because we were a running team.   No one backed you.  
 

Each time you started with a flawed premise and kept telling everyone else they were wrong and you were right.   You even started this thread wondering if JTs ego was out of control.   
 

It’s stunning how badly you’ve misread this situation. 

 

I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I'm defending my point. If people don't agree, that's ok.

[Indyfan4life]

IIRC, wasn’t it game 5 against Miami last year before Taylor turned it on?

[CR91]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

No one is giving JT a complete pass.  Posters are simply trying to give badly needed context to a flawed theory.   A theory that says Taylor is mostly responsible for his decline.   That’s a flawed theory. 

 

Oh look. Someone agrees. I guess I'm not alone. No I did not say mostly. I listed a bunch of different factors and said Taylor is our best player. Don't put words in my mouth