Veteran NFL scout on Stanford QB Andrew Luck: "I don't think this kid is special in any way except his intangibles."

[Jay305]

Luck...

Don't want Mike Vick 3 sorry.

Mike Vick wishes he could throw the ball like RG3 coming out of college

[Dan]

You guys can call me controversial contrarian but the simple fact is I just like RG3 more than Andrew Luck, and thats who I want as our qb. You guys worship Andrew Luck soo much that anyone who doesnt like him, must be labeled controversial, contrarian, etc etc.

There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, it's the fact you never explain why - as evidenced by you just then saying "you watch the film and tell me" - I've watched a lot of film and can tell you many ways Luck is superior - and also evidenced by this thread, picking up on a negative quote (also with no explanation) and saying "discuss" and running off, leaving no discussion points of your own. It makes people, and me, wonder whether you actually do have any reasons for preferring Griffin, and if so why you don't just explain yourself or back yourself up.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

There's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, it's the fact you never explain why - as evidenced by you just then saying "you watch the film and tell me" - I've watched a lot of film and can tell you many ways Luck is superior - and also evidenced by this thread, picking up on a negative quote (also with no explanation) and saying "discuss" and running off, leaving no discussion points of your own. It makes people, and me, wonder whether you actually do have any reasons for preferring Griffin, and if so why you don't just explain yourself or back yourself up.

Thanks for saying this so I didn't have too.

Jay, I'm not against Griffin. He's a great QB that I expect to do really well in the NFL, but I don't think he would fit our team as well as Luck will. Too top that off, I'm not trying to be rude, I would just like for you to explain yourself a little more. You leave a statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. Sorry but I'm not a miind reader and I don't personally know you, so you will have to expound upon things so I get where you are coming from. I respect different opinions and in fact like that they make me think...but yours does not make me think because you don't support it with anything (at least not on here).

[Balzer40]

Just go watch the film on both and you tell me

I have watched plenty of film on both and there is nothing that would make me prefer Griffin over Luck. Luck has read defenses, changed play calls at the line, and played 3 yrs. in a pro style offense. 3 things Griffin has never done in college and wasn't asked to do(so not his fault). Griffin is a smart kid and has good physical skills, but there is nothing that puts him over the top over Luck.

You are entitled to like Griffin better, there are a few that agree with you but not many. You try to say that Griffin has a higher ceiling but you are just repeating things you have read or seen on TV and offer no reason or explaination as to why that is just like the others that have said the same thing. Just like people say things like "Luck hasn't proven anything in the NFL", then how can anybody say with any credibility that Griffin has a higher ceiling. It's contradictory and makes no sense.

Neither, has proven anything in the NFL yet, and we have no idea who will have the better career, but we do know that Luck will be our QB so why not embrace him as our future and hope that he turns into everything people say he will? Like I said, if you believe Griffin is the better prospect, you are entitled to that but back it up with something credible as to why, or at least say you just like him because you think he has nice hair, or a pretty smile, anything at all.

[Jay305]

I like RG3 because hes more explosive than Luck. Is Luck more mentally prepared than RG3 yeah but that doesnt matter. Look at what Bruce Arians did with Big Ben, the premise that RG3 wont fit with us is absurd. Can RG3 get better at reading defenses and that part of the game I think so. Can Luck all of a sudden become as dynamic and explosive as RG3 I doubt it (Not a fault against him). RG3 isnt perfect he does most of his work on the sidelines and up the field. His accuracy needs to get better on his intermediate throws around the middle of the field. What he has that makes him special is his ability to make throws from all sorts of positions and footing.

[Cynjin]

Mike Vick wishes he could throw the ball like RG3 coming out of college

Vick had a very strong arm coming out of college, still does.

[Balzer40]

I like RG3 because hes more explosive than Luck. Is Luck more mentally prepared than RG3 yeah but that doesnt matter. Look at what Bruce Arians did with Big Ben, the premise that RG3 wont fit with us is absurd. Can RG3 get better at reading defenses and that part of the game I think so. Can Luck all of a sudden become as dynamic and explosive as RG3 I doubt it (Not a fault against him). RG3 isnt perfect he does most of his work on the sidelines and up the field. His accuracy needs to get better on his intermediate throws around the middle of the field. What he has that makes him special is his ability to make throws from all sorts of positions and footing.

Well, thats fine. I'll give you that Griffin is more explosive than Luck, but to be honest, I have never seen that type of QB be a superbowl caliber QB. I'll take cerebral over explosiveness everyday of the week and twice on sunday's. Not saying Griffin isn't smart because he obviously is, but IMO Luck is just more of a football junkie than Griffin is. Griffin may be quicker, have a little bit of a stronger arm(very little), but neither of those things would make me choose Griffin over Luck.

[Jay305]

Vick had a very strong arm coming out of college, still does.

RG3 is way more accurate than Vick though

[Jay305]

You guy keep mentioning cerebral like Luck is professor Xavier. You dont need to call your own plays to be successful in the NFL look at Drew Brees Big Ben for examples. Can they do it sure but theyre OCs HC in Drews case do most of the play calling and theyre very successful.

[Restored]

Mike Vick wishes he could throw the ball like RG3 coming out of college

Hence Mike Vick 3. Same build and style as Vick with the ability to pass. Still don't want him. I'd rather have the guy people compare to Peyton with the ablitiy to run like A. Rodgers

[bavanlan]

You guy keep mentioning cerebral like Luck is professor Xavier. You dont need to call your own plays to be successful in the NFL look at Drew Brees Big Ben for examples. Can they do it sure but theyre OCs HC in Drews case do most of the play calling and theyre very successful.

I'm not sure how accurate this is. I see Brees changing plays all the time from the original call. Brady too.

[21isSuperman]

I'm not sure how accurate this is. I see Brees changing plays all the time from the original call. Brady too.

Apparently, if you watch the Sound FX episode of the Super Bowl game, Payton tells Brees almost everything and Brees just has to do it. Personally, I haven't watched it because...well...you know

[bavanlan]

Apparently, if you watch the Sound FX episode of the Super Bowl game, Payton tells Brees almost everything and Brees just has to do it. Personally, I haven't watched it because...well...you know

I haven't either. Interesting though.

[Jay305]

Its like Superman says LOL he even tells him who he should throw it too. Not saying Brees doesnt know the playbook and can call audibles. Just saying you dont need to have full control of an offense to be successful.

[Jay305]

Hence Mike Vick 3. Same build and style as Vick with the ability to pass. Still don't want him. I'd rather have the guy people compare to Peyton with the ablitiy to run like A. Rodgers

To me RG3 is more like Aaron Rodgers than Vick

[Malakai432]

RG3 ceiling is higher because of how much of a threat he is with his running ablities.

But you can also say that highly intelligent QBs don't have a ceiling because they are ever progressing mentally according to Bill Polian in regards to Andrew Luck. Studious QBs never stop learning. It also helps to have a photographic memory like he does.

[Vance]

But you can also say that highly intelligent QBs don't have a ceiling because they are ever progressing mentally according to Bill Polian in regards to Andrew Luck. Studious QBs never stop learning. It also helps to have a photographic memory like he does.

How do you know RGIII isn't a studious QB? Just because he didn't get a 45 on the Wonderlic or go to Stanford?

Also, he said he would rather stay in the pocket and throw than run in an option scheme. His words.

[Balzer40]

How do you know RGIII isn't a studious QB? Just because he didn't get a 45 on the Wonderlic or go to Stanford?

Also, he said he would rather stay in the pocket and throw than run in an option scheme. His words.

I don't think he said RG3 isn't studious, but I think its a well known fact that Luck lives in the film room. Im sure RG3 does his fair share of film work too, but nobody that I've heard raves about his endless film study like they do with Luck.

Also, RG3 can say all he wants about wanting to be a pocket QB, but a lot of the film says otherwise. All of this is a moot point anyway, because the Colts are taking Luck. He's our future and not RG3, no amount of trying to prove who's right and who's wrong really does not matter. We'll all find out watching them next season.

[Malakai432]

How do you know RGIII isn't a studious QB? Just because he didn't get a 45 on the Wonderlic or go to Stanford?

Also, he said he would rather stay in the pocket and throw than run in an option scheme. His words.

I never said he wasn't, but in my view Andrew Luck is the epitome of an intelligent, studious QB. I'm not basing it off wonderlic scores, just what I've heard from coaches, scouts and experts ect.

[Malakai432]

I don't think he said RG3 isn't studious, but I think its a well known fact that Luck lives in the film room. Im sure RG3 does his fair share of film work too, but nobody that I've heard raves about his endless film study like they do with Luck.

Also, RG3 can say all he wants about wanting to be a pocket QB, but a lot of the film says otherwise. All of this is a moot point anyway, because the Colts are taking Luck. He's our future and not RG3, no amount of trying to prove who's right and who's wrong really does not matter. We'll all find out watching them next season.

Very good point.

[Vance]

I never said he wasn't, but in my view Andrew Luck is the epitome of an intelligent, studious QB. I'm not basing it off wonderlic scores, just what I've heard from coaches, scouts and experts ect.

Well then RGIII as a studious QB will never stop learning either, and his ceiling is just as high as anyone else's.

[Malakai432]

Well then RGIII as a studious QB will never stop learning either, and his ceiling is just as high as anyone else's.

That sounds more than fine with me. As long as he is really is a highly studious and intelligent QB.

Heck for all I know both could be the next Tim Couch or Ryan Leaf at the NFL level. No one really knows yet though I think the chances are slim.

[21isSuperman]

I don't get the RG3 hate...

As for the importance of intangibles, I believe I've read multiple times that Peyton was actually the least athletic of the three Manning bros. However, due to his intangibles, like his work ethic, attitude, and leadership, he has turned into (in my opinion) the best player of all time. Peyton doesn't have the strongest arm or run the fastest 40 time, but things like his awareness and preparation set him above the others.

[Malakai432]

I don't get the RG3 hate...

As for the importance of intangibles, I believe I've read multiple times that Peyton was actually the least athletic of the three Manning bros. However, due to his intangibles, like his work ethic, attitude, and leadership, he has turned into (in my opinion) the best player of all time. Peyton doesn't have the strongest arm or run the fastest 40 time, but things like his awareness and preparation set him above the others.

I think much of it is people simply misinterpreting each other. Just because someone prefers Luck or thinks he's better or vica verse people sometimes tend to misconstrue that as bashing the other player. I think they both have their own benefits, I do think Luck is the most intelligent and studious who has a photographic memory, while RGiii is the most athletic and explosive. People might misinterpret that as me saying Luck isn't athletic or that RGiii isn't smart which is not the case.

Many times we all simply just have.......

a failure to communicate!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drop down and give me 80!

[Gavin]

The problen with the RGIII versus Luck debate is pretty simple

Can both run? yes

Can both learn to read defenses? sure

Can RGIII read them now? it would appear that he cant

Can Luck read them now? obviously

Does it matter if RGIII that he can run faster? no. Why? well he isnt gonna play wide receiver or running back, he will actully have to learn how to read defenses

whos ceiling is higher? RGIII

Whos NFL ready? Luck

Ill take the guy that can read defenses now. why? cause he can do it now and its no guarantee RGIII will be able to

Luck cant run faster then RGIII but he with his brain ya dont have to, think Peyton Manning like brain and ALMOST Cam Newton like speed

[21isSuperman]

I think much of it is people simply misinterpreting each other. Just because someone prefers Luck or thinks he's better or vica verse people sometimes tend to misconstrue that as bashing the other player. I think they both have their own benefits, I do think Luck is the most intelligent and studious who has a photographic memory, while RGiii is the most athletic and explosive. People might misinterpret that as me saying Luck isn't athletic or that RGiii isn't smart which is not the case.

Many times we all simply just have.......

a failure to communicate!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drop down and give me 80!

The second I saw that picture, I thought of Forrest Gump..."WHAT IS YOUR SOLE PURPOSE IN THE ARMY?!?!"

[Dan]

I like RG3 because hes more explosive than Luck. Is Luck more mentally prepared than RG3 yeah but that doesnt matter. Look at what Bruce Arians did with Big Ben, the premise that RG3 wont fit with us is absurd. Can RG3 get better at reading defenses and that part of the game I think so. Can Luck all of a sudden become as dynamic and explosive as RG3 I doubt it (Not a fault against him). RG3 isnt perfect he does most of his work on the sidelines and up the field. His accuracy needs to get better on his intermediate throws around the middle of the field. What he has that makes him special is his ability to make throws from all sorts of positions and footing.

Okay thank you for giving an actual explanation! I understand where you're coming from in terms of explosiveness but I think you're undervaluing Luck in that part, several times he was able to take off and gain yards, he's infinitely better than Manning in that department. Obviously, Griffin is without a doubt better and more explosive, but that aspect of Luck's game isn't to be overlooked.

I think the accuracy issue is a bigger one than everyone makes out. Yes, Griffin had a higher completion percentage, but watching a lot of film of him in one sitting reveals how many were bubble screens and checkdowns. Some of his deep passes were incredible, I give him full credit (I don't want it to be assumed I hate Griffin) but he lacked the on-a-postage-stamp accuracy of Luck at times, where Andrew was able to pick out a receiver on a slot in just the place and at just the time it needed to be, to keep him going in his stride. Andrew's timing and accuracy is absurdly brilliant, and a quick look at his throwing action shows what a natural player he is. He's clearly been brought up playing the game and it shows in every aspect of him.

Griffin can get used to reading the game, but it'll be a much slower process and he'll never be as natural as Luck (unless he has some unprecedented learning power we're not familiar with) - the lad is 22 and has never played in a pro-style offense. This isn't a huge deal, he'll adapt I'm sure, but to adapt to that and learn to perfectly read it and pick apart defenses and call plays will be a real struggle. Andrew has a huge head start on that and natural aptitude for it.

Then, there's the film room issue. I just want to point out I'm not labelling Griffin as lazy or not a hard worker, I'm sure he is, but Luck has Peyton levels of commitment in that he doesn't come out of the film room. Numerous reports have him down as absurdly hard working, which is brilliant, and although it isn't a negative against Griffin, it's certainly a huge positive for Luck.

Thus my thought process in being so confident in Luck being better than Griffin is not in Griffin not being good at all, but in how positive I am over Andrew Luck. A lot of people say the only difference is his playcalling - as I laid out in the second paragraph, it's far more than that.

Thank you for giving your reasons, though, it's far more appreciated than just "I think RG3 is better."

Just seen how long this post is... maaaaan. If anyone can't be bothered to read (shame on you), a summary:

Griffin is a very good player. Luck is better.

[Slick_Rick]

If that's the case, we might should pick up JaMarcus Russel....just as insurance lol. [sarcasm]

[Gavin]

But just as a thought

Luck can throw from different angles

[Dan]

But just as a thought

Luck can throw from different angles

I was going to include that in my post but forgot, thanks for bringing it up now!

[Balzer40]

But just as a thought

Luck can throw from different angles

I thought of this throw too. This is one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen from such a ridiculously bad position. Not to mention, it throws the whole "Luck don't have a strong arm" arguement out the window.

[bap1331]

Haters going to hate what they can't get! Meaning that fans from all 31 other teams will say Andrew Luck is a bust...

[Ryan43]

The thing that concerns me about RG3 is hits. Is it me or does he have a small frame?

Seems when he gets hit, he's flying off his feet.

[Gavin]

The thing that concerns me about RG3 is hits. Is it me or does he have a small frame?

Seems when he gets hit, he's flying off his feet.

hes got a small frame, may not be real light but not alot of fat on him at all from what I see its all muscle, hes gonna need a little fat (not much) to absorb some hits, I dont see it ending well if he runs up the middle and gets met by a Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis. I think it would possibly mean the end of his rookie year

[JoKeR]

RG3 ceiling is higher because of how much of a threat he is with his running ablities.

He's barely faster and I heard he runs in angles. Andrew is just as agile, maybe even more, he's a running threat too.

Or do you just want a QB who will run more? Remember that running threat works both ways, just ask Mike Vicky how many games he couldn't play because of injuries he suffered by running. I'd trust Luck more in that depth. One he wont run as much and when he does, he can run over defenders, putting the hurt on them.

[JoKeR]

Don't pay any attention to arbitrary glass ceilings, no one knows.

[braveheartcolt]

Yep, Griffin has a much lower floor than 12......

[Jules]

To me RG3 is more like Aaron Rodgers than Vick

If RG3 ends up the next Rodgers then the Redskins will have a great run again someday.

But, easier said then done.

I follow Rodgers closely now and over the years. The more I think about it the more I think it was just a unique situation. Rodgers still feels to this day he should have been the first overall pick (he made yet another comment on it when he won the MVP) and I firmly believe he and Favre hated each other at times. So over a few years Rodgers developed a nice big fat chip on his shoulder that some believe has not been seen since Tom Brady had a chip being picked in the 6th round. Being dinked around by Favre, booed by Packers fans initially and all the drama Rodgers endured before and after getting to GB has made him ridiculously competitive and firey and even a tad arrogant at times in his abilities. Don't get me wrong, Aaron is a good guy but is VERY competitive and his circumstances helped develop this.

And also GB is a stable organization and develops QBs so well, not much like what we see in Washington.

The more I read/see and hear about Luck the more I think he is sometimes compared to Eli as a person more so then Peyton in terms of personality. Which is fine with me.

I think we are getting a very chill and smart franchise QB. He might not become the outgoing personality of Peyton but time will tell. But, he might be the perfect fit for this rebuilding project and also have the right personality to handle all the comparisons to Peyton and criticisms. Eli has handled the brutal NY media beautifully. If Luck has the right personality he can handle what is coming to him with Indy and the fans.

RG3 might rub too many here the wrong way with his personality IMO. I don't feel he is the right personality for this situation right now. If he was sitting behind Manning for a few years thats one thing but we are asking a guy to come in and not only lead this team for many years but handle the expectations of replacing a legend/fan favorite asap as a rookie.

I may not be making any sense though.......but I do think Luck is just the better fit. Not just as a player but as a person too.

[Jay305]

[Malakai432]

I thought of this throw too. This is one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen from such a ridiculously bad position. Not to mention, it throws the whole "Luck don't have a strong arm" arguement out the window.

Yeah I agree but are we 100% sure James Cameron or Steven Spielberg didn't create that video. To me that looks straight CGI.

I kid, I kid.