How Much Do You trust Ballard with This teams future?

[Nickster]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s also a point I’ve made many times over the years.   The JB money didn’t hurt the team.   That issue was way overblown here.   We had cap space, even when PR was here. 

 

Yeah but it's a terrible point.  The 28 million extra for JB could have signed any number of combinations of FAs.

[Goatface Killah]

12 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Does Grigson get any credit for having success with Luck (the centerpiece of the franchise)? Not with 99% of the fanbase. 

 

So using that standard, if it was a huge advantage for Grigson, then it's a huge advantage for any GM, including Ballard. As is having a 4-12 season and the #3 pick in the following draft.

 

There is positive context that has existed alongside all of that negative context you mentioned. And it's disingenuous to only consider the latter. 

 

So take the Luck part of out it because most teams are an Andrew Luck away from being really good.

 

And having to address QB long-term is also a common responsibility for a GM.

 

So let's look at the past 3 years. It hasn't been bad overall, but it hasn't really good either. And they have had little to show for it, as well as no clear plan forward.

 

So to say there is "absolutely no argument on firing Chris Ballard" just means you're biased. 

 

I didn't even say I thought he should be fired. I am just being objective about his tenure, instead of making a bunch of excuses and pushing narratives.

 

But there is a person with a lot of power in that org. who does have high expectations. And if they don't turn it around, I don't think he is going to buy that there is no argument.

 

 

 

 

Sure he gets credit. But youre ignoring that the team didnt improve at all after his first season, with the biggest puzzle piece in place. Thats much different than missing the piece that takes you to the next level.

 

Teams rarely fire a GM with the record Ballard has over the last 4 years. It almost never happens.

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, Goatface Killah said:

No I responded to the post you quoted because I thought the premise was silly and misleading and didnt feel like combing thru the thread to address him directly.

Its not silly, they could have tired to work a trade with either the Giants or Lions too.  SD might have listened as well

 

You are trying to shut down any possibility at all of a trade when there were several teams they could have worked with

 

It wouldnt have been 100% impossible and we have wasted money and picks on QBs since then anyway 

 

[Nickster]

This is what I'd like to see from Chris Ballard.  

 

 

The dude with the torch is Irsay.

This org is in terrible shape for the future, and just about every move Ballard has made lately has made the situation worse. 

 

I'm for Ballard conflagration.   

 

We have very few players anyone would even consider taking for  salary dumps, let alone assets. 

 

He's put us in a terrible place going forward with untradeable assets and a lack of talent where it counts. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

This one is from January 16. 

 

Titans hired Vrabel on January 20th:

https://www.tennesseetitans.com/news/titans-hire-mike-vrabel-for-head-coaching-job-20277260

 

McDaniels dumped us on Feb 6:

https://www.nfl.com/news/josh-mcdaniels-withdraws-from-colts-coaching-job-0ap3000000915131

 

Damn... that's a ton of time he wasted for us. 

 

Yeah, but my point is that I don't know if he was really interested in Vrabel.  He hired Josh for the quick release passing offense and then went right to Frank after that.  Sure, the other candidates were all gone by then,  but that doesn't mean Ballard wanted any of them over Frank.  That was the take many had that I don't see.  I think he wanted a coach to install a quick release offense to protect Luck...and then he drafted Nelson and Smith two months later to help with that.

 

Edit:  and then I never understood the marrying of Flus with Josh to begin with.  The rumors were that Josh wanted Flus, so Ballard signed Flus.  Flus is a soft zone guy, and Josh worked his O with a BB 34 more attacking style...which is what we just had with Pagano and the personnel already here..  Why would Josh want to retool the D under a new scheme (and we had just picked Hooker at 15 the year before)?   That whole hiring process had rumors that made no sense to me.

[Goatface Killah]

17 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Its not silly, they could have tired to work a trade with either the Giants or Lions too.  SD might have listened as well

 

You are trying to shut down any possibility at all of a trade when there were several teams they could have worked with

 

It wouldnt have been 100% impossible and we have wasted money and picks on QBs since then anyway 

 

You are implying he didnt when you have absolutely no idea whether he did or not. And youre doing it to create a narrative that is only in your head. 

 

You cant force teams to trade with you. End of story. 

 

Im responding to what amounts to ridiculous conspiracy theories.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Goatface Killah said:

Again, you keep ignoring the huge difference in that Grigson had Andrew Luck and that changed the expectations for him. 

 

He was handed the number 1 pick in the draft in a season with a clear cut number 1 pick at QB. Thats the single greatest gift you could give a GM. 

 

Its a tough riddle to solve and outside of you suggesting he shouldve traded for Herbert in retrospect, which you have no idea if he even tried or not btw.....you dont have the answer either.

Who expects Pierce to be a "star"

 

If Grigson getting rookie Luck was the single greatest gift a GM could get...then Ballard getting the prime version of the same player was what exactly? 

 

For the years that QB plays, it can't an advantage for one GM and not the other. 

 

Speaking of gifts, that 2017 season without Luck gave Ballard the #3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. And since he had a QB, he was able to trade it for #6 and (3) early-mid 2nd rounders. I would assume that's also pretty high on the list of gifts a GM could get when rebuilding a roster.

 

Without Luck, that pick is very likely going to a QB. Just like it did when Grigson had the top pick. I imagine any GM would have loved to trade that pick and use all of those picks on other positions to rebuild.

 

And Grigson didn't even have another pick before the 20s until 2016. Ballard has had 4/6 of his 1st round picks in the top half of the draft. 

 

Nobody will ever confuse Grigson with being a better drafter than Ballard, that is for sure. But the gap between how much draft capital each has had is huge.

 

I just don't get this narrative that Grigson had all of these advantages and Ballard has all these disadvantages. It's just pure fiction.

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

If Grigson getting rookie Luck was the single greatest gift a GM could get...then Ballard getting the prime version of the same player was what exactly? 

 

For the years that QB plays, it can't an advantage for one GM and not the other. 

 

Speaking of gifts, that 2017 season without Luck gave Ballard the #3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. And since he had a QB, he was able to trade it for #6 and (3) early-mid 2nd rounders. I would assume that's also pretty high on the list of gifts a GM could get when rebuilding a roster.

 

Without Luck, that pick is very likely going to a QB. Just like it did when Grigson had the top pick. I imagine any GM would have loved to trade that pick and use all of those picks on other positions to rebuild.

 

And Grigson didn't even have another pick before the 20s until 2016. Ballard has had 4/6 of his 1st round picks in the top half of the draft. 

 

Nobody will ever confuse Grigson with being a better drafter than Ballard, that is for sure. But the gap between how much draft capital each has had is huge.

 

I just don't get this narrative that Grigson had all of these advantages and Ballard has all these disadvantages. It's just pure fiction.

For 1 single season with a shocking retirement afterwards lol 

 

How can you not see the difference between the 2 things?

 

Ballard leveraging draft picks is just smart, and he deserves credit for that. The only year he was in position to draft a QB even close to Andrew Luck he already had him. Thats much different than being handed Luck as your first move and looking at, what you thought at the time, was 15 years of verybgood QB play.

 

Regardless, I dont even think Grigson was fired for his performance as much as the fact he was completely unlikable and a world class 'hole. McAfee has talked about this many times since he retired. There was a lot more to it than just his performance, which at that point wasnt good enough to overlook his DBagery anymore.  

 

 

 

 

[Coltsfan98]

Ballard's had plenty of time to build this team and this is what he's come up with, time to move on and rebuild with somebody else.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

19 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

what was irsay thinking when he hired ballard

I've got to get rid of Grigson

[chad72]

25 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

If Grigson getting rookie Luck was the single greatest gift a GM could get...then Ballard getting the prime version of the same player was what exactly? 

 

For the years that QB plays, it can't an advantage for one GM and not the other. 

 

Speaking of gifts, that 2017 season without Luck gave Ballard the #3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. And since he had a QB, he was able to trade it for #6 and (3) early-mid 2nd rounders. I would assume that's also pretty high on the list of gifts a GM could get when rebuilding a roster.

 

Without Luck, that pick is very likely going to a QB. Just like it did when Grigson had the top pick. I imagine any GM would have loved to trade that pick and use all of those picks on other positions to rebuild.

 

And Grigson didn't even have another pick before the 20s until 2016. Ballard has had 4/6 of his 1st round picks in the top half of the draft. 

 

Nobody will ever confuse Grigson with being a better drafter than Ballard, that is for sure. But the gap between how much draft capital each has had is huge.

 

I just don't get this narrative that Grigson had all of these advantages and Ballard has all these disadvantages. It's just pure fiction.

 

Plus, the lame duck coach with Pagano never made sense to me. Either go all in with Pagano with the blessing of Ballard or get the coach Ballard wants. You waste 1 year of draft picks on a system you won't use defensively or offensively, that could have been a good draft for getting skill position players that could be used in any system, IMO.

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, Goatface Killah said:

You cant force teams to trade with you. End of story. 

 

you dont know that they wouldnt have.  I say we should have been all in

 

you are conveniently ignoring that the Giants and Lions both were in a good position to trade out of and we could have used the picks we spent on Matt, Buckner and Carson to get started.  thats a strong starting point for teams that didnt have to make a pick there 

[Goatface Killah]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

you dont know that they wouldnt have.  I say we should have been all in

 

you are conveniently ignoring that the Giants and Lions both were in a good position to trade out of and we could have used the picks we spent on Matt, Buckner and Carson to get started.  thats a strong starting point for teams that didnt have to make a pick there 

No I dont, but the fact that they didnt trade down with anybody, or take Herbert for themselves, suggests they coveted the people they took and probably didnt want to move.

 

What you are suggesting is essentially 2 1s and 2 3s and thats not even close to enough to get it done.

[MPStack]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

If Grigson getting rookie Luck was the single greatest gift a GM could get...then Ballard getting the prime version of the same player was what exactly? 

 

For the years that QB plays, it can't an advantage for one GM and not the other. 

 

Speaking of gifts, that 2017 season without Luck gave Ballard the #3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. And since he had a QB, he was able to trade it for #6 and (3) early-mid 2nd rounders. I would assume that's also pretty high on the list of gifts a GM could get when rebuilding a roster.

 

Without Luck, that pick is very likely going to a QB. Just like it did when Grigson had the top pick. I imagine any GM would have loved to trade that pick and use all of those picks on other positions to rebuild.

 

And Grigson didn't even have another pick before the 20s until 2016. Ballard has had 4/6 of his 1st round picks in the top half of the draft. 

 

Nobody will ever confuse Grigson with being a better drafter than Ballard, that is for sure. But the gap between how much draft capital each has had is huge.

 

I just don't get this narrative that Grigson had all of these advantages and Ballard has all these disadvantages. It's just pure fiction.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Chris Ballard was the number one most wanted GM candidate the year he was hired.    He had a great reputation from his time in Chicago.   He had a great reputation from his time in Kansas City.   He was highly in demand.  
 

Irsay hired the best GM candidate on the market.   That’s what he was thinking.   This wasn’t a well kept secret.   How is it that you don’t know this? 

source that he was number one and in demand , link ? or was it just you?

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

4 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

Foles is making 20m this year? I dont think so.

 

We had a lot of roster spots to fill. We probably had 25 million to actually play with and he brought in Ngakoue, Pryor and Gilmore for that money. 

another ballard flub

[Nesjan3]

Ballard has gone from golden boy here to not even half the voters having confidence in him.

[CanuckColt]

22 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

i trust that ballard will get us the first round pick for years to come i just hope he is not the one to pick them

EXCELLENT thought...right on the money.

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

source that he was number one and in demand , link ? or was it just you?

It was talked about constantly here back that off-season.   I’ll try to find articles.   It may take some time and I’m coming into the busy part of my day.   But I will get back to you. 

[AwesomeAustin]

18 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

I always thought we should have gone after one of Tua, Herbert or Fields. Would have been expensive but we could have done something.  We wasted picks on Carson and maybe Matt now anyway 

 

To be fair Fields hasnt been good, I'm an Alabama fan that did believe in Tua and Herbert has been even better than I expected

 

Who knows if Chris will ever hit on a young QB?  My short term optimism is fading fast 

Add in Mac Jones, Kyle Trask, Jordan Love and Jalen Hurts.  There have been opportunities to get signal callers. Yeah some are bust or haven’t done anything, that’s part of it.  You know who else has been a bust or not done anything special?  The Colts. At some time you have to identify a college QB you can groom and go get them. It’s been three drafts since Luck has retired.  Will we get one in the 4th draft?  5th? Who knows, we may need to retool by the time that happens. 

[CanuckColt]

21 hours ago, IrsaysArmy said:

Complete 180 on Ballard. He’s pretty good at finding some draft gems but until he changes his approach to schemes, and WRs he’s useless to me

Ballard cannot draft a pass-rusher to save his life...total failure.

He keeps drafting 6th,7th and UDFA WRs hoping to get a winner...so far nothing. Campbell and Pierce MAY pan out.

He has not yet drafted a good TE...we have no good TEs. Granson is only 6'2" with questionable hands (pseudo fullback),

He drafts O-linemen well but as soon as he pays them, they turn into marginal players who try avoid injuries.

He does not draft RBs for depth...I don't know what the heck Hines is but he can leave any time.

I don't have any hope for Ballard to build this team...his emphasis is on the wrong positions.

I like Polian's axiom..."you pay the men who touch the ball"...QBs, RBs, WRs.

[TheNextGM]

He needs to improve at WR. Immediately.

 

He can like the WR room all he wants the fact is it isn’t good enough to compete vs Buffalo, KC, etc..

 

Metcalf from the Seahawks?

Mims from the Jets?

Golladay from the Giants?

Moore from the Panthers?

 

Go get somebody. Other teams do it. 

 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Add in Mac Jones, Kyle Trask, Jordan Love and Jalen Hurts.  There have been opportunities to get signal callers. Yeah some are bust or haven’t done anything, that’s part of it.  You know who else has been a bust or not done anything special?  The Colts. At some time you have to identify a college QB you can groom and go get them. It’s been three drafts since Luck has retired.  Will we get one in the 4th draft?  5th? Who knows, we may need to retool by the time that happens. 

This. I get that the elite once in a generation QBs don’t grow on trees, but you can’t just not take a QB because of that. You either have to pay up and spend draft picks to get one, or just find a guy who has enough traits to effectively run your offense. Jalen Hurts is a good example. He was there when Nick got there but he doesn’t look terrible with weapons and a running game. Took the Eagles to the playoffs last year and might do it again. Or look at Lamar Jackson. A lot of people thought he would bust but he’s already won an MVP and the Ravens are always competitive. It’s also been 4 drafts since Luck retired. 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022.
 

It’s also a moot point because whatever negative outcome he’s trying to avoid by not drafting a QB that might bust, were getting the same result. We missed the playoffs last year and don’t look competitive at all this year. All he’s really done is give away our 1st round picks that we could have used to get young QBs up for basically nothing. Sent the 13th overall pick in 2020 which you may have been able to use to get In front of Miami and/or LA for Tua or Herbert. Lions or Giants might have taken #13, our first round pick in 2021, and  a 2nd and 3rd in 2021. You could have still ended up with Pittman and JT as well. You also could have had a shot at Kenny Pickett this year had we not of given up those picks for Wentz. We honestly could gotten Justin Fields last year too, on top of the names you already listed.

 

There’s been plenty of chances to go get a young QB but Ballard has never wanted to pay the price.

[AwesomeAustin]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

This. I get that the elite once in a generation QBs don’t grow on trees, but you can’t just not take a QB because of that. You either have to pay up and spend draft picks to get one, or just find a guy who has enough traits to effectively run your offense. Jalen Hurts is a good example. He was there when Nick got there but he doesn’t look terrible with weapons and a running game. Took the Eagles to the playoffs last year and might do it again. Or look at Lamar Jackson. A lot of people thought he would bust but he’s already won an MVP and the Ravens are always competitive. It’s also been 4 drafts since Luck retired. 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022.
 

It’s also a moot point because whatever negative outcome he’s trying to avoid by not drafting a QB that might bust, were getting the same result. We missed the playoffs last year and don’t look competitive at all this year. All he’s really done is give away our 1st round picks that we could have used to get young QBs up for basically nothing. Sent the 13th overall pick in 2020 which you may have been able to use to get In front of Miami and/or LA for Tua or Herbert. Lions or Giants might have taken #13, our first round pick in 2021, and  a 2nd and 3rd in 2021. You could have still ended up with Pittman and JT as well. You also could have had a shot at Kenny Pickett this year had we not of given up those picks for Wentz. We honestly could gotten Justin Fields last year too, on top of the names you already listed.

 

There’s been plenty of chances to go get a young QB but Ballard has never wanted to pay the price.

I agree with everything you said!  Except Luck retired in Aug of 19 after the draft. 

[Defjamz26]

7 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I agree with everything you said!  Except Luck retired in Aug of 19 after the draft. 

Actually you’re right on that front. My mistake. So he’s had 3 drafts to get a QB. And honestly that’s even better, because the 2019 draft class of QBs sucked. But 2020-2022 there’s a bunch of guys we could have gotten that are either ballers or  probably would have been good with us.

[AwesomeAustin]

33 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Actually you’re right on that front. My mistake. So he’s had 3 drafts to get a QB. And honestly that’s even better, because the 2019 draft class of QBs sucked. But 2020-2022 there’s a bunch of guys we could have gotten that are either ballers or  probably would have been good with us.

You are absolutely right. Plenty of opportunities.  The main one I look at is the 2020 draft.  That was the offseason management made their most critical mistake. We had a decent draft pick and extra ammo to move up.  Instead they believed we were a 3T and a veteran QB away from breaking through. All efforts should have been to secure a franchise QB once Luck left. That offseason sent us down this path of veteran QBs that just has not worked much in the NFL. It was not the right choice. We have spent so much cap space and draft capital on these veteran bandaids we could have drafted a franchise QB and built a team that is scary. 

[compuls1v3]

11 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

Holding Ballards first season against him is completely unfair and everyone thats doing it is only doing it because without that Luckless 4-12 season, they have absolutely no argument on firing Chris Ballard. He has posted a good record considering the lack of stability at QB. He has had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. And IMO, he has done it with a bad coach who has cost them multiple games.

 

They also claim he hasnt addressed positions like DE, LT and WR but they wont give Pierce and Raimann a chance to fill those spots and ignore the fact Paye has had a pretty good start to the season and is on pace for double digit sacks.

 

All of this is pretty silly really. QB is the difference here. The Colts don't have a franchise QB in his prime and its hard to find one. If they did they would be an absolute force. People just go back thru drafts and cherry pick guys that worked out and say shoulda coulda woulda.......thats not how it works. 

I agree about the missing out on guys in the draft, almost nothing is guaranteed. But, the fact that Ballard hasn’t even tried for the Franchise QB through the draft makes me doubtful on him.  The only thing that even remotely makes sense to me is they (Irsay, Ballard, & Reich) are playing the long game and holding out for a good QB in 23 or 24.  But even that thought is outlandish; I just don’t get it. 

[deedub75]

Ballard's philosophy doesn't require an elite QB or elite receivers.  

 

Reich's philosophy requires an elite QB and elite receivers.  

[Larry Horseman]

17 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I said this in another thread, but Tom Telesco (in running for GM at the time) has built a pretty good team over there in San Diego.....

You realize Telesco has been with the Chargers since 2013 and has had a number of bad seasons, missed draft pics, questionable decisions, head coaches, etc.? He still has a job because ownership was somewhere between apathetic and patient and then he hit on Herbert. He was sort of in the running for Colts GM in 2012 but it was a long shot. He was hired from the Colts when Grigs was GM. 

[4daUColts]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:55 PM, IrsaysArmy said:

Complete 180 on Ballard. He’s pretty good at finding some draft gems but until he changes his approach to schemes, and WRs he’s useless to me

he has been good at doing draft, ill give him that... he does have a mixed philosophy i dont understand though.... that is not to pay running backs big $, and not paying for a wr. and why do we have a quarterback carosel every year, the last 5 years, but dont have 2 good wr's to take pressure off? 

 

i personally seen a total lack of effort the last 2 weeks so im still not convinced we suck this year but we do need another proven wr, and a te that catch us 5-6 balls a game. 

 

 these last to games were scheme issues, just let them play to thier comfort

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

source that he was number one and in demand , link ? or was it just you?

I found two stories about the 2017 class of GM’s.   Both are behind a paywall.   One from ESPN Premium, the other from Sports Illustrated.   Honestly, I thought I’d find more.   Both called Ballard the most in demand of the candidates. 
 

Honestly, I don’t know why this is even an issue?   Once he got his front office and coaching staff in place in 2018, the team has known success.   We can agree to disagree if it’s enough success,  but he’s had a good reputation here and in the NFL  for years.   
 

He was voted best GM in the league in 2018.   Two of his drafts, 2018, and 20, have been called top-3.   I know people are down in him NOW, but your comment wasn’t about now, it was about what was Irsay thinking when he hired Ballard in Jan of 17.   That’s totally different.  He hired the best GM on the market at that time. 

 

[Defjamz26]

8 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

You are absolutely right. Plenty of opportunities.  The main one I look at is the 2020 draft.  That was the offseason management made their most critical mistake. We had a decent draft pick and extra ammo to move up.  Instead they believed we were a 3T and a veteran QB away from breaking through. All efforts should have been to secure a franchise QB once Luck left. That offseason sent us down this path of veteran QBs that just has not worked much in the NFL. It was not the right choice. We have spent so much cap space and draft capital on these veteran bandaids we could have drafted a franchise QB and built a team that is scary. 

What’s crazy is I can’t think of any franchise recently who has waited as long as we have to try and seriously address the QB position. Maybe the Texans before they got Watson.

[Chucklez]

9 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

You are absolutely right. Plenty of opportunities.  The main one I look at is the 2020 draft.  That was the offseason management made their most critical mistake. We had a decent draft pick and extra ammo to move up.  Instead they believed we were a 3T and a veteran QB away from breaking through. All efforts should have been to secure a franchise QB once Luck left. That offseason sent us down this path of veteran QBs that just has not worked much in the NFL. It was not the right choice. We have spent so much cap space and draft capital on these veteran bandaids we could have drafted a franchise QB and built a team that is scary. 

So in 2020, we were drafting 13th if we didnt trade for Defo.

The top QBs that year, by all consensus were Burrow, Herbert, Tua and Love.... Clearly the Bengals werent giving up the #1 pick because they took Burrow, plus that would have been an insane trade to move up that high from 13.

Tua and Herbert were taken 5th and 6th... So really, the only way we draft a franchise QB that year is if we move into the 2, 3 or 4 draft spots... from 13. That my friend, would have been a king's ransom. We wouldnt have been able to draft Pittman, and we wouldnt have been able to draft Taylor.

Almost certainly would have had to give up a 2021 first round pick as well as another 2nd, so in all liklihood no Kwity Paye or Dayo either.

And who knows, potentially even more draft capital than that..... All for a potluck chance at a QB who may or may not have been good.

Pass.

[AwesomeAustin]

9 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

So in 2020, we were drafting 13th if we didnt trade for Defo.

The top QBs that year, by all consensus were Burrow, Herbert, Tua and Love.... Clearly the Bengals werent giving up the #1 pick because they took Burrow, plus that would have been an insane trade to move up that high from 13.

Tua and Herbert were taken 5th and 6th... So really, the only way we draft a franchise QB that year is if we move into the 2, 3 or 4 draft spots... from 13. That my friend, would have been a king's ransom. We wouldnt have been able to draft Pittman, and we wouldnt have been able to draft Taylor.

Almost certainly would have had to give up a 2021 first round pick as well as another 2nd, so in all liklihood no Kwity Paye or Dayo either.

And who knows, potentially even more draft capital than that..... All for a potluck chance at a QB who may or may not have been good.

Pass.

You are absolutely right that it would have taken a large haul to move up.  I fully agree it would at minimum take two first so Buckner and Kwitty would not be on the team.  My argument with that is, what have they really done?  Our pass rush is anemic and Buckner didn’t have a $20m year.  Hard to say what else it would take but I would think at least a 2nd plus another later round pick swap.  MPJ would be on the list of super valuable picks that would make me pause.  JT is great but I don’t personally value the RB position as much.  I think we could get 80% of the production from 2 backs. Dayo, hasn’t done anything yet due to injury so who knows how valuable he really is. 
 

We have spent $135m on Buckner, Rivers, Wentz and Ryan since that draft and have not won much.  The true question is what could we have done with that cap space and a young QB like Tua or Herbert?  Would it offset the production we have received from Buckner, Kwitty and one of the 2nd picks in MPJ, JT or Dayo?  It honestly seems to me like a very good possibility it could have with the benefit of having a franchise QB for the next decade as well. We could also of failed as well.  All I will say is the route we chose isn’t necessarily a failure, but I wouldn’t say its a success as well.
 

 I would personally trade Buckner, Kwitty and JT for a franchise QB on a 5yr rookie deal. But I’m not a GM and don’t have a full grasp on everything so could be wrong as well.  All of this is just my opinion. 
 

 

[IrsaysArmy]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I found two stories about the 2017 class of GM’s.   Both are behind a paywall.   One from ESPN Premium, the other from Sports Illustrated.   Honestly, I thought I’d find more.   Both called Ballard the most in demand of the candidates. 
 

Honestly, I don’t know why this is even an issue?   Once he got his front office and coaching staff in place in 2018, the team has known success.   We can agree to disagree if it’s enough success,  but he’s had a good reputation here and in the NFL  for years.   
 

He was voted best GM in the league in 2018.   Two of his drafts, 2018, and 20, have been called top-3.   I know people are down in him NOW, but your comment wasn’t about now, it was about what was Irsay thinking when he hired Ballard in Jan of 17.   That’s totally different.  He hired the best GM on the market at that time. 

 

Haven’t heard much from you lately NCF. Interested to hear your thoughts on the start of the season

[Nevbot]

20 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

We had so much salary cap it really didn’t matter. Where it did matter a little is when rivers was here and that second year of that deal. Can’t have a backup making that much. Could of used that money to upgrade the roster and help rivers.  

This I agree with.  I always thought pairing up Hunter Henry with Rivers would have been a net plus for this team, and we certainly had the chance to with Henry hitting free agency at the same time. 

Newflash: The Pats outbid everyone for Henry, and while that doesn't look like a good contract at all, he likely would have lit it up with Rivers for his year here. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

i dont think he will be here to pick the qb of the future

[Colts1324]

47 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

i dont think he will be here to pick the qb of the future

I think Ballard stays & Reich goes. 
 

Irsay is convinced Ballard is the best GM out there. 
 

I think (hope?!) Ballard learns from this & starts changing his Philosophy on WR’s 

[throwing BBZ]

 

  Our foundation (built through the draft) is at best C-
  Is this what Irsay was expecting?   

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Chucklez said:

So in 2020, we were drafting 13th if we didnt trade for Defo.

The top QBs that year, by all consensus were Burrow, Herbert, Tua and Love.... Clearly the Bengals werent giving up the #1 pick because they took Burrow, plus that would have been an insane trade to move up that high from 13.

Tua and Herbert were taken 5th and 6th... So really, the only way we draft a franchise QB that year is if we move into the 2, 3 or 4 draft spots... from 13. That my friend, would have been a king's ransom. We wouldnt have been able to draft Pittman, and we wouldnt have been able to draft Taylor.

Almost certainly would have had to give up a 2021 first round pick as well as another 2nd, so in all liklihood no Kwity Paye or Dayo either.

And who knows, potentially even more draft capital than that..... All for a potluck chance at a QB who may or may not have been good.

Pass.

To get up to 3 or 4 it probably would’ve cost number 13 in 2020, our 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2020, and a 2021 1st. That’s not terrible. We still could’ve gotten Taylor and Pittman. Could’ve used the remaining draft capital to just move up. Draft maybe 3-4 players and called it a day. I really think Detroit took Okudah because no one called. They wanted to get out of that spot.

 

Also technically any QB is a potluck shot. Mahomes was when the Chiefs traded for him.