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unitaswestand

Therapy For Polian Bashers

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For any fans who are ticked at Bill Polian, I have a good prescription for that. Go back and read some of the Robert Irsay moments. Like I remember reading that he came into the lockerroom and gave kicker Toni Linhart a raise after he missed some fields goals, then cut him like two days later. For inept drafting, pretty much, from 1978-1993. Or look at Jim Irsay (great owner!) being the GM. Some of his great trades, like two #1 picks for Fredd Young. Or trading so much to select Jeff George. Or how about Bill Tobin, who did have some good moments. Be he is also the GM the basically forced Marcibroda out by offering a one year contract and brought in two many ex-Bears who couldn't play besides Harbaugh. Just go relieve all the moments between Joe Thomas and Bill Polian, and you will likely appreciate Bill Polian more. I have heard it said that without Peyton Manning, this team is not likely in Indy anymore and they win 6 games. I disagree. If Peyton Manning magically was never on the Colts, Bill Polian would have gotten someone to play well. If he can get to the NFC Title game with Kerry Collins, I am sure he would have still put together a pretty good team and they would do well. Likely not as good as what Manning has done. But I think Bill Polian is one of the most important members the Colts franchise has EVER had. You would have to live through the bad times to appreciate him more, I think.

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Well said. People are so used to the Colts doing well that they start to take it for granted and want the number one ranked offense and defense every year, as well as a roster loaded with big names. Polian (father and son) know what they are doing, let them work their magic. There is a very good reason why Bill Polian has won so many NFL Executive of the Year awards and has had so much success in the NFL and CFL.

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Any sane adult who understands Madden isn't real and remembers how bad it has been has to appreciate BP (and Jim). Yes, not every move or draft choice has been a success. No front office can say that.

And those who say we're a one and done playoff team don't get the simple fact that you can't win a SB unless you make the playoffs. Once you're in any team can get hot and win it all.

Bottom line, unless you're clueless or you go by BigBlueShoe, you have to appreciate our FO.

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And for all of the people that say Brown/Hughes are busts, I have two words for you.....Steve Emtman.....He makes Hughes and Brown look like Pro Bowlers....

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I have always believed and always will believe the best acquisition the Colts ever made was getting Bill Polian to run the front office. He is the genius that put together the great teams we have had. I will be disappointed when Peyton retires because I think he is the best quarterback, however, the best Colts pick up is Polian.

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And for all of the people that say Brown/Hughes are busts, I have two words for you.....Steve Emtman.....He makes Hughes and Brown look like Pro Bowlers....

Steve Emtman was not a bust. He was just unlucky with some serious knee injuries. When he was healthy his rookie year, he was really good.

To me, a bust is a guy either NEVER had the talent to be drafted where he was drafted or it is a guy who completely wasted the talent that he did have and never lived up to his draft status.

EXAMPLES:

No Talent Bust - Brian Bosworth, David Klingler, Art Schlister, Blair Thomas, Mike Mamula

Talent Waster Bust - Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Lawrence Phillips, Quentin Coryatt

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Any sane adult who understands Madden isn't real and remembers how bad it has been has to appreciate BP (and Jim). Yes, not every move or draft choice has been a success. No front office can say that.

And those who say we're a one and done playoff team don't get the simple fact that you can't win a SB unless you make the playoffs. Once you're in any team can get hot and win it all.

Bottom line, unless you're clueless or you go by BigBlueShoe, you have to appreciate our FO.

An honest analysis of Bill Polian's track record here in Indy will certainly include positives and negatives. Overall, I believe the positives outweigh the negatives. Detractors will whine that Peyton Manning covered up a lot of the mistakes Polian made. But really, so what? Peyton was a Polian pick.

All I know is, I remember the bad old days very clearly. And those days went away when Bill Polian started running the front office. Hopefully, Chris Polian inherited his dad's eye for talent and will be able to keep the train rolling for the next decade and beyond.

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Any sane adult who understands Madden isn't real and remembers how bad it has been has to appreciate BP (and Jim). Yes, not every move or draft choice has been a success. No front office can say that.

And those who say we're a one and done playoff team don't get the simple fact that you can't win a SB unless you make the playoffs. Once you're in any team can get hot and win it all.

Bottom line, unless you're clueless or you go by BigBlueShoe, you have to appreciate our FO.

I've read that guy's stuff. He's totally off his rocker.

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

you do know the return man is gonna be completely useless this year right

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

We had ok DTs in some parts of 5 years, but considering Pitcock retiring Ed Johnson smoking Pot and we did get Filli so ya

Return man... Devin Moore and Also we had Courtney Roby but our blockers and scheme were to inept

LT: we had a lot on stock for Ugoh for majority of the 3 years

The other yearsCJ wasnt bad but now we got the future

He had some questionable moves and doesn't attack FA like the Eagles but, come on he does well

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

1. I think people figure our DT problems all wrong. With the scheme we run, our defensive ends are always way out wide and leave gaping holes. This allows other teams to effectively run away from out DTs and neutralize them. The only possible way this system works is when you have a pro bowl caliber guy. For example, McFarland. I think Harris, while he may not play nose tackle, he is the type of player that will prosper here because he is best at getting through blocks and often times has to have three guys touch him to even try to stop him. It doesn't matter as much which tackle position has that ability in the Cover 2, just as long as one of them does. We will see this theory tested if Harris can stay healthy and maintain his Pro Bowl caliber play and Mookie lasts a full year at nose tackle.

2. Our return blocking sucks. This is a result of having late draft picks every year due to being good and Manning's and Freeney's contracts. They're salaries don't allow us to field a very talented roster beyond the back up guys. When someone goes down, the back up starts, and we have guys who don't belong in the NFL playing special teams. The only way to remedy this is by getting lucky and acquiring a great return man, or get lucky and stay healthy a whole year. You can't just go out and find guys like Hester or Sproles. They don't grow on trees. And these players both were great with teams with good special teams blocking. I've been hearing great things about Devin Moore, and I'm hoping our blocking is better simply because we are healthy. Also this year, it doesn't even matter it seems. Teams always make us fair catch the punt too. It's weird, but it seems like every team has learned how to do this to us and the only time a good punt return happens is when the guy actually has room to make a move and get up field. I blame this also to poor blocking.

3. Also franchise left tackles don't grow on trees either. We can't afford to pay a veteran pro bowler type big bucks, and usually franchise left tackles get drafted before we have a chance to pick. With that said, I still think Castonzo is going to be the answer. He hasn't even played for us but for some reason I feel confident? I also think BI will be able to replace Diem at RT. Though Diem, without the false starts, has been our best lineman these past two years outside of Saturday. I think we can hope for progression from our young core of guards. Maybe the ex-Bear can join Tommie Harris and be a difference maker too. I like that signing.

The bottom line is we haven't missed the playoffs. If we win the Super Bowl this year with HFA throughout, we will be 12-10 in the playoffs under Peyton. Pretty dayum good. Heck for anyone knows we could win the SB the next three years and Manning goes out on top the GOAT. With an 18-10 playoff record, four Super Bowls, and the best career stats of all time.

You wanna know why we have this chance even though we've had a a couple "off" years? Bill Polian and now his son. We did make it to a SB and lose a close one, and were a missed FG away from another playoff win with half our team on IR. Since Chris has come into the fold, I think things are looking up. He may be the missing piece to the puzzle. I think it's pretty ironic Chris Polian's greatest strengths and what he brings to the organization, seems to be his dad's biggest weaknesses. Children are half mom half dad, so it doesn't mean they are all exact clones. I think they make a good two headed monster. He's already made 4 straight and lost them all, so hopefully Bill and Chris can get us to 4 straight and win them all for redemption before he hands over full control to Chris!

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

Tony Ugoh? does he ring a bell? Indy tried and missed. It sucks, but it happens.

And DT.... seriously... Simon, Booger, Pitcock, Ed Johnson and whoever else I am forgetting. The Colts have tried to upgrade the DT position through the years... But it just has not worked out for whatever reason.

And return men.... Brad Pyatt, Devan Moore, and so on and so on.. they always get HURT.

This front office is NOT perfect, but they sign more UDFA's than any other team in the NFL... and that tells me they do their homework.

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And for all of the people that say Brown/Hughes are busts, I have two words for you.....Steve Emtman.....He makes Hughes and Brown look like Pro Bowlers....

Wow... what a genius post :cheer:

Steve Emtman played all of 7 or 8 games for Indy before tearing his knee up. But in that small sample he returned an INT via Mariono 90+ yards... had 3 sacks, forced a fumble or two and was a STUD on the DL. He was the leader on that D until it ended as soon as it began.

And then the knee issues came along. It sucks... The Colts have had miserable luck with players and injury. More than most teams deal with.

But Emtman wss not a bust.

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Yes he WAS good. But I think he has spent way too much time in the media the past few years and I think there are several managers who have passed him by.

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And for all of the people that say Brown/Hughes are busts, I have two words for you.....Steve Emtman.....He makes Hughes and Brown look like Pro Bowlers....

Emtman was not a bust, as others have correctly pointed out and detailed. Injuries do not = bust. Emtman is my all-time woulda/coulda Colt. Shame things went that way for him, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

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Yes he WAS good. But I think he has spent way too much time in the media the past few years and I think there are several managers who have passed him by.

No one said he's perfect, but name one other team that has been in the playoff the last 5 years? Yes, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, NE, and the Pack are all top notch, but they miss occasionally. As far as being in the media, how has this affected his job?

Don't forget, he's a prominent member of the rules committee. Any Colts fan knows how a lot of the rule changes favor the Colts. Our horrible kickoff coverage team just improved about a 100% due to a rule change.

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you do know the return man is gonna be completely useless this year right

That is good news, now our defense won't have to start at the 50 half the time.

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Yeah, I totally understand the frustration. They haven't been perfect. I, like probably every other Colt fan, get so frustrated that for the last few years the offensive line is just pretty weak at run blocking. Or the DT position seems to get run over. But I think there was a good post on this. Having someone like Pat Williams sounds good on paper, but I am not sure if it would work. As stated, the DEs play wide and attack the passer. So often, run plays are hitting that B gap between the guard and tackle. Now, if the defensive tackle gets no penetration, there is a huge hole in that gap. Also, just another point. Look at how kick returners we have tried have worked on other teams. Remember Courtney Roby? He was great for the Saints and could do nothing with Indy. The makeup of our players are great for offensive and defensive, not so good for special teams.

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Polian is a top 5 GM in the league, he may not be the best but he is top 5, IMO.

My only beef with Bill Polian is not to go after second tier free agents enough consistently that could have plugged a few needs either on the depth front or starter front. The lack of quality depth on a few fronts, IMO, has been a big reason to make decisions to rest the starters towards the end of seasons in years past, IMO. Plus, it takes a lot of years to build depth through the draft.

The other knock is his O-line drafting, I have not been impressed with the overall body of work there, just my opinion. Hopefully Chris Polian and his coaches do better moving forward.

Let us just say I am Pro Polian 70/30 (might have been 60/40 if you asked me after that Jets' resting-the-starters-game in 2009, lol) :-).

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All this sycophantic happy clapping for a GM is ridiculous. He's made some good picks, he's made some great picks, he's made some wierd picks, and he's made some bad picks. Big deal.

I prefer to show my adoration for the guys that pad up, not some paper shuffler who insults his customers on a whim, makes dreadful contractual gaffs, brought in a weak HC so he could become the puppet master, and his Week 17 decision still tops the list as the worst management call in recent memory.

No thanks, I'll not be joining this back slaping crew, now, or never....

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Steve Emtman was not a bust. He was just unlucky with some serious knee injuries. When he was healthy his rookie year, he was really good.

To me, a bust is a guy either NEVER had the talent to be drafted where he was drafted or it is a guy who completely wasted the talent that he did have and never lived up to his draft status.

EXAMPLES:

No Talent Bust - Brian Bosworth, David Klingler, Art Schlister, Blair Thomas, Mike Mamula

Talent Waster Bust - Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Lawrence Phillips, Quentin Coryatt

See I disagree. I feel a bust is someone that doesn't live up to the hype, regardless of the reason. His reason just happened to be injuries. For a number one overall pick he only had 8 sacks and that one memorable pick 6. Other than that he finished each year on the injured reserve. With that kind of production from a number one pick, I would consider that a busted pick regardless of the reasoning. I feel Hughes is coming along talent wise and is adding depth to our defensive front, which is what we have needed for quite some time.

Also, all of these lists of biggest busts have Emtman on their lists...

My link

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Steve Emtman was not a bust. He was just unlucky with some serious knee injuries. When he was healthy his rookie year, he was really good.

To me, a bust is a guy either NEVER had the talent to be drafted where he was drafted or it is a guy who completely wasted the talent that he did have and never lived up to his draft status.

EXAMPLES:

No Talent Bust - Brian Bosworth, David Klingler, Art Schlister, Blair Thomas, Mike Mamula

Talent Waster Bust - Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Lawrence Phillips, Quentin Coryatt

not really true about bosworth. he played pretty decent, but shoulder problems forced him to retire early.....

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All this sycophantic happy clapping for a GM is ridiculous. He's made some good picks, he's made some great picks, he's made some wierd picks, and he's made some bad picks. Big deal.

I prefer to show my adoration for the guys that pad up, not some paper shuffler who insults his customers on a whim, makes dreadful contractual gaffs, brought in a weak HC so he could become the puppet master, and his Week 17 decision still tops the list as the worst management call in recent memory.

No thanks, I'll not be joining this back slaping crew, now, or never....

yeah, what he said....

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

1. Polian did find us one, how long did we pay Corey Simon when he was no longer on the roster due to him being a jerk? Then there was Bogger who helped us win a Super Bowl and then blew out his knee. Pitcock quit on his way to camp. He tried to trade for a guy from Buffalo who failed a physical. He took two chances on Ed Johnson. He did find Muir and AJ, AJ who has looked very good at run stopping late last year till he got hurt before the Jets playoff game. There is also Moala who developed into probably our best DT last year. He also has the kid he drafted this year. Frakly Polian has probably done more at the DT spot than any other spot on the roster. We have just had a lot of bad luck at the spot.

2. Polian has found return men, Wilkis, Pyatt, Rhodes (the first time till he blew out his knee)and frankly Moore looks pretty good. Two things, one what no one likes to talk about because it's not the simple fix is that our blocking is just not that good. That comes when you have a team that has so many young guys year in and year out like the Colts do. Still when the return man is one of your three weakess poistions most people would take that as a sign that your team is pretty darn good.

3. Polian didn't have too. What was he going to do replace the All-pro Glenn that he had the whole time he was here? He took one shot at Ugoh and yeah it didn't work out but it took Polian time to figure out it didn't work out. Every GM has a bust at some point, what's remarkable about Polian is that he really didn't have one till Ugoh. GM's would love to have Polian track record of drafting since he's been here. Once Polian did realize Ugoh wasn't going to work he did go out and get a tackle, two of them in fact, in the draft this year.

So of that list you have one real grip and that's DT and it's a poistion Polian has tried and tried to improve and keeps trying, the draft pick this year plus signing Harris. He's trying and frankly has done a great job. There is no such thing as the perfect team in the NFL. Everyone has some kind of weakness. The good teams just have few weaknesses and figure out how to win with them. The Colts have done both.

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I'm not saying that Polian is the worst ever, but answer 3 things.

In the last five years why?

1. Why didn't Polian find a run stuffing DT?

2. Why didn't Polian find a return man?

3. Why didn't Polian find a Good LT? I know this year we drafted two tackles.

Just saying we could have traded up in a draft and solved one of these. Even return man we could have got with a pick in the first round.

1) There's no such thing as a run stuffing DT. We've drafted and signed several serviceable tackles in the last five years. Some have worked better than others, some weren't very good, some washed out. But I think it's misguided to think that it's possible to draft a defensive tackle who can single-handedly solve your run defense issues. I think the 2006 playoffs are the key here. If you have the right players, even if they're not Pro Bowlers, and they play with discipline, you can play well against the run. We don't need a so-called run stuffing DT. We need players who don't get cut for failing drug tests, who don't quit football because of depression/video game addictions, who don't sign $30 million contracts and then get diagnosed with career-ending poly-arthritis. Polian hasn't done as much as he could have at this position, but don't make it seem like he's done nothing. If Ed Johnson and Quinn Pitcock pan out, we don't have a poor run defense the past three seasons.

2) On the list of priorities, return man is probably 11 or 12. It would be nice, but seeing as how you can take a good return man out of the game with good kicking and punting, most teams don't put a priority on a high level return man. You don't draft a return man in the first round, especially when you have Pro Bowl starters at receiver. It's a luxury. And for every argument against Polian for us not having a good return game (which is a legitimate gripe), I'd argue in his favor for the way he's kept offensive weapons around Manning to make up for the lack of a good return game.

3) We drafted Ugoh, and he gave up on football after his second season. He did just fine as a rookie, even though we didn't anticipate him starting at tackle. Charlie Johnson stepped in and proved to be serviceable. I think we should have addressed our offensive line more aggresively after 2008, and is the most legitimate gripe against Polian's personnel decisions in recent years. Still, it's not exactly as if he's done nothing.

I think Polian has been a very good GM. You can point to several mistakes he's made over the years, but I think it's been a net positive given the good decisions. We have top five players at six positions (QB, WR, DE/DE, FS, P, K). We have more than adequate players all over the field (Saturday, Collie, Brackett, Addai, etc.) We have a very good team. We win a bunch of games. Had a chance to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl two years ago, with players that people call out as Polian mistakes all the time. We suffered catastrophic injuries at numerous positions last season, and still won our division and came within a blown coverage on kick return and a stupid timeout of winning a playoff game.

I'd love to see us have a mauling interior offensive line that produces huge yardage in the run game. I'd love to see us have a super stout defensive interior that shuts down running backs. I'd love to see us have top notch cover corners that take receivers out of the equation. And on and on. We could nitpick a ton of things Polian does, both in principle and in practice. But, in my mind, it still comes down to the fact that we're consistently one of the best teams in the NFL with a roster that has Polian's fingerprints all over it. It's not that he's without fault. It's that I think he's built a very good team, in spite of his faults. If you look around the NFL, you'll see teams that actually have talent but suffer due to the GM's consistent bumbling and meddling. It gets a LOT worse than Bill Polian.

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Anyone who questions polian should remeber 1984 thru 1993...(tobin did some good for us)..love irsay as an owner but as gm no....polian brought bills back to prominent franchise(and they havent been close since they fired him)..and he has built the colts to one of the most respected franchises in the nfl....we used to be along with the bucs and the patriots and cardinals the laughingstock of the league

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