my concern

[ruf]

Blocking issues

The downside to the Colts offense Wednesday came up front. The Lions challenged them most on the interior, as rush lanes swallowed quickly

 

this is my big concern. if it goes into the season as it I feel it will be a long season where we will miss the playoffs again and be beaten by the jags if we can't block the interior

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ruf said:

Blocking issues

The downside to the Colts offense Wednesday came up front. The Lions challenged them most on the interior, as rush lanes swallowed quickly

 

this is my big concern. if it goes into the season as it I feel it will be a long season where we will miss the playoffs again and be beaten by the jags if we can't block the interior

It’s one practice.    One.    And from one practice you’ve extrapolated that this will be a problem all season long and we’ll miss the playoffs.    All from one practice. 
 

I think you’re reading way too much into way too little.   Is it possible you’re right?  Sure. But it’s not likely.    
 

OL play is typically slow to come around.   It takes time to gel.    Whatever the line is today, it should get better over time.    It started slow last year when injuries hit 4 of our 5 starting lineman.  But eventually the line gelled and Taylor ran for 1800 yards.   Remember?    This year we have two new starters on the line.   It’s going to take time.  Give it time.  

[Matabix]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s one practice.    One.    And from one practice you’ve extrapolated that this will be a problem all season long and we’ll miss the playoffs.    All from one practice. 
 

I think you’re reading way too much into way too little.   Is it possible you’re right?  Sure. But it’s not likely.    
 

OL play is typically slow to come around.   It takes time to gel.    Whatever the line is today, it should get better over time.    It started slow last year when injuries hit 4 of our 5 starting lineman.  But eventually the line gelled and Taylor ran for 1800 yards.   Remember?    This year we have two new starters on the line.   It’s going to take time.  Give it time.  

We can keep making excuses. I've said pretty much the same thing. Our OL has regressed in the last 2 years. Suring up the middle should be first priority.  That's why I suggested moving Smith to RG. Pressure in the QBs face is far worse than the sides. For example,  all those years NE had near top OL with Brady there Tackles got more credit than they deserved.  Of those tackles that went to free agency how many were successful with new team? Not many at all. There interior lineman who made free agency how better outcomes on different teams. My point is you can scheme deficiencies on the edge better than the interior. The poster of this post has a point.

[tfunky14]

Dude, there is no scheming at the O-line positrons It's man against man. 

[Nickster]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s one practice.    One.    And from one practice you’ve extrapolated that this will be a problem all season long and we’ll miss the playoffs.    All from one practice. 
 

I think you’re reading way too much into way too little.   Is it possible you’re right?  Sure. But it’s not likely.    
 

OL play is typically slow to come around.   It takes time to gel.    Whatever the line is today, it should get better over time.    It started slow last year when injuries hit 4 of our 5 starting lineman.  But eventually the line gelled and Taylor ran for 1800 yards.   Remember?    This year we have two new starters on the line.   It’s going to take time.  Give it time.  

No it’s not been 1 practice NCF.  It’s been all camp long from what I’ve been reading and when I went to camp they got toasted.   And the preseason game 1st Q when they played they looked shaky.  Last year was not a matter of gelling.  None of the starters were healthy.  They all are healthy now.  Our oline is drafted and paid elite money at LG, C, and RT.  They need to be at least top 10 type or we will struggle.

 

the one thing you still can’t really simulate ever in camp is the running game, but in pass pro we got problems as we stand.

[lollygagger8]

14 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Dude, there is no scheming at the O-line positrons It's man against man. 

 

I'm just about done with this narrative. It's used for the WR's, and now the O-line? 

 

When it's 1 vs 1, the better player wins regardless of the position. If our players keeps losing these battles, that's a problem. 

 

I'll reserve judgement until the first game, but if the Colts lose the opener for the 9th straight year, these narratives are going to straight crumble on this forum 

[Matabix]

Narrative or scheme. It's not man on man It's unit vs. unit. It's not 1 preseason game. It's 33 games and a preseason game. Just saying our strongest UNIT 2 years ago needs a change. 

[Nevbot]

41 minutes ago, Matabix said:

Narrative or scheme. It's not man on man It's unit vs. unit. It's not 1 preseason game. It's 33 games and a preseason game. Just saying our strongest UNIT 2 years ago needs a change. 

That is kind of the point, and I agree to an extent.  It has now been two years since this unit was elite, and it wasn't even elite for long.  We usually lose a piece on the O-Line just as we gain one. 

My concern is not necessarily with any individual on the O-Line.  On paper we should be just fine- however as a unit, they have underwhelmed, and that seems to be a trend now instead of an anomaly.  To me, that screams poor leadership and coaching.  Dave DeGuglielmo, who if I recall we inherited during the whole McDaniels/Reich hiring fiasco, was shipped off for being too hard and mean and not a players coach- but had this line playing stellar a few years back.  Howard Mudd was also involved in the decision making if I am not mistaken.
If we are having offensive line problems, I would look at our current coach first. For 33 years of coaching experience and 4 years in his current role, Chris Strausser should be looked at for potential pink sips.  On another note- I do wonder what we pay Marcus Brady to do now that we have a competent QB in Ryan.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

The pass blocking on this OL is straight bad.  And when you marry that to an old immobile QB you are going to see a lot of problems unmask quickly.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

The pass blocking on this OL is straight bad.  And when you marry that to an old immobile QB you are going to see a lot of problems unmask quickly.  

and when we win the division and go 11-6 with an "old immobile QB" and with an "O.Line is straight bad" , you will be like how did that happen after all the negative stuff I talked 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Matabix said:

We can keep making excuses. I've said pretty much the same thing. Our OL has regressed in the last 2 years. Suring up the middle should be first priority.  That's why I suggested moving Smith to RG. Pressure in the QBs face is far worse than the sides. For example,  all those years NE had near top OL with Brady there Tackles got more credit than they deserved.  Of those tackles that went to free agency how many were successful with new team? Not many at all. There interior lineman who made free agency how better outcomes on different teams. My point is you can scheme deficiencies on the edge better than the interior. The poster of this post has a point.

The OL was fine in 2020.   It fell off last year.    Smith is not moving to guard.   Not happening.    We didn’t let Glowinski walk to move Smith.   That’s why Pinter is there.   

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

No it’s not been 1 practice NCF.  It’s been all camp long from what I’ve been reading and when I went to camp they got toasted.   And the preseason game 1st Q when they played they looked shaky.  Last year was not a matter of gelling.  None of the starters were healthy.  They all are healthy now.  Our oline is drafted and paid elite money at LG, C, and RT.  They need to be at least top 10 type or we will struggle.

 

the one thing you still can’t really simulate ever in camp is the running game, but in pass pro we got problems as we stand.

Our OL is healthy and has TWO NEW starters.  Stop ignoring facts you don’t like.  There’s no reason the OL should be in mid-season form today.   It doesn’t work that way.   OL teamwork takes longer to develop than any other group by far.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Our OL is healthy and has TWO NEW starters.  Stop ignoring facts you don’t like.  There’s no reason the OL should be in mid-season form today.   It doesn’t work that way.   OL teamwork takes longer to develop than any other group by far.   

Our O.LIne is fine, some of these people need to calm down. We now have a good QB that can offset a lot as well. 

[throwing BBZ]

 

  Golly gee, i believe Ballard and Frank can assess whether our o-line coach is capable. Their jobs, are on the line.

 So Marcus Brady IS the OC, working with his position coaches to teach, assess talent and progress, and leads game planning. 

 You may have missed it, Castanzo, still just 33, who was making $16M, and who was pretty good, left us, and Changed our talent level. Stuff happens.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Golly gee, i believe Ballard and Frank can assess whether out o-line coach is capable. Their jobs, are on the line.

 So Marcus Brady IS the OC, working with his position coaches to teach, assess talent and progress, and leads game planning. 

 You may have missed it, Castanzo, still just 33, who was making $16M, and who was pretty good, left us, and Changed our talent level. Stuff happens.

Opening day can't get here quick enough, when we wipe the floor at Houston the nay-sayers will crawl into the corner with their tail between their legs. 

[JMichael557]

We have a very poor O Line Coach. Most of our line problems are mental mistakes.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Opening day can't get here quick enough, when we wipe the floor at Houston the nay-sayers will crawl into the corner with their tail between their legs. 

No they won’t.    They’ll say wait until we see what happens at JVille.   Then they’ll say what and see what happens at the KC game.  And the Tenn game. 
 

These people are never wrong.   Ever.   And the first time the OL doesn’t perform up to snuff they will scream….    TOLD YA!!  

 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Opening day can't get here quick enough, when we wipe the floor at Houston the nay-sayers will crawl into the corner with their tail between their legs. 

They'll just wait until we lose to rub it in that they were right. That's the only thing that matters for them. They don't care about how the team does, just that their narrative was proven true. I don't understand the hate for Matt Ryan... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

No they won’t.    They’ll say wait until we see what happens at JVille.   Then they’ll say what and see what happens at the KC game.  And the Tenn game. 
 

These people are never wrong.   Ever.   And the first time the OL doesn’t perform up to snuff they will scream….    TOLD YA!!  

 

You are probably right, then if we win at Jacks, those same people will say - we should've beat them anyway, they suck  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

They'll just wait until we lose to rub it in that they were right. That's the only thing that matters for them. They don't care about how the team does, just that their narrative was proven true. I don't understand the hate for Matt Ryan... 

I am confident in my QB and pick as a fan. I have us winning the division and put up $200 on a 7-1 odd to make the AFC Title Game. I can't wait for that $1400 when we make the Final 4 

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are 20-1 to win the SB, I am half tempted just to put $100 on that. I would win $2000 if that happened  

[Nickster]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Our OL is healthy and has TWO NEW starters.  Stop ignoring facts you don’t like.  There’s no reason the OL should be in mid-season form today.   It doesn’t work that way.   OL teamwork takes longer to develop than any other group by far.   

 

I agree with your last sentence for sure.  It looks like some on this thread don't realize the complexity of Oline play.

And a major caveat here is that you can't really simulate the effectiveness in the running game, as I have stated almost every time I've commented on the oline.

 

 

However NCF, our Oline has also been getting beat up quite often in 1 on 1 matchups.  It's pretty evident.  In pass pro, most and at times all 5 linemen are going to be on their own.  Our pass pro was horrendous last season, and that can be largely accounted for by injury, but it was also horrendous late in the season, and unless people are hiding injury, we were mainly healthy.  If we have to chip and keep people in to combat this, then an already underwhelming pass catching unit will be even less whelming. 

 

We don't look like a top unit right now, and if you don't see that, then we just see things differently.  

I think it's imperative to this team's success that the OLINE plays at an elite or at least near elite level since there is so much invested in it, but right now it seems fairly obvious to me anyway that we don't seem to be on that trajectory.

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I agree with your last sentence for sure.  It looks like some on this thread don't realize the complexity of Oline play.

And a major caveat here is that you can't really simulate the effectiveness in the running game, as I have stated almost every time I've commented on the oline.

 

 

However NCF, our Oline has also been getting beat up quite often in 1 on 1 matchups.  It's pretty evident.  In pass pro, most and at times all 5 linemen are going to be on their own.  Our pass pro was horrendous last season, and that can be largely accounted for by injury, but it was also horrendous late in the season, and unless people are hiding injury, we were mainly healthy.  If we have to chip and keep people in to combat this, then an already underwhelming pass catching unit will be even less whelming. 

 

We don't look like a top unit right now, and if you don't see that, then we just see things differently.  

I think it's imperative to this team's success that the OLINE plays at an elite or at least near elite level since there is so much invested in it, but right now it seems fairly obvious to me anyway that we don't seem to be on that trajectory.

 

I agree the OL doesn’t look elite now.   The difference is….   I wasn’t expecting it.   Not with two new guys.   And I’m not expecting it by wk1 of the regular season.    Too soon. 
 

But I’m expecting it to be good enough to win with until it gets better.    Kevin Bowen has written our OL is no longer elite, but it can still be very good.   And I think that’s fair.   That’s what I’m hoping for.  

[coltsfeva]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I agree the OL doesn’t look elite now.   The difference is….   I wasn’t expecting it.   Not with two new guys.   And I’m not expecting it by wk1 of the regular season.    Too soon. 
 

But I’m expecting it to be good enough to win with until it gets better.    Kevin Bowen has written our OL is no longer elite, but it can still be very good.   And I think that’s fair.   That’s what I’m hoping for.  

   He said Pinter is athletic but has trouble with big DTs and Pryor is big but has trouble with fast DEs.
   Now, if Rauman can develop enough to start at LT and Pryor could move to guard, they might be okay but they’re not going to be moving guys around, unless they have to.

    There’s always the cut downs where they might be able to pick somebody up.
 

    

[NewColtsFan]

41 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

   He said Pinter is athletic but has trouble with big DTs and Pryor is big but has trouble with fast DEs.
   Now, if Rauman can develop enough to start at LT and Pryor could move to guard, they might be okay but they’re not going to be moving guys around, unless they have to.

    There’s always the cut downs where they might be able to pick somebody up.
 

    

From what I’m reading, Raimann sounds like he’s a year away.    I’m not expecting him to be more than the 6th OL and the top backup when someone goes down.   
 

If/when Raimann is ever ready to start at LT, then I think we trade Kelly, then Pryor puts 10 pounds back on to be the RG, and Pinter moves to C.    But I think that happens in 23 or 24. 

[ruf]

46 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

   He said Pinter is athletic but has trouble with big DTs and Pryor is big but has trouble with fast DEs.
   Now, if Rauman can develop enough to start at LT and Pryor could move to guard, they might be okay but they’re not going to be moving guys around, unless they have to.

    There’s always the cut downs where they might be able to pick somebody up.
 

    

i think it is necessary to do something like this NOW

if we don't it will be a bad year and all because of the RG position.

now the problem is a good enough LT to take Pryor's place BUT never the less it needs to be done this year

[Nickster]

58 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I agree the OL doesn’t look elite now.   The difference is….   I wasn’t expecting it.   Not with two new guys.   And I’m not expecting it by wk1 of the regular season.    Too soon. 
 

But I’m expecting it to be good enough to win with until it gets better.    Kevin Bowen has written our OL is no longer elite, but it can still be very good.   And I think that’s fair.   That’s what I’m hoping for.  

 

yes I agree with Bowen.  BTW, I get my news from this board.  I read and watch rarely.  I might skim what someone links here.  So I thought we were still generally expected to be elite.   

 

To me, not being elite when drafting with elite picks and paying elite money is a fundamental problem with our club the way it is constituted.  It's problem now and in the future, IMO. 

 

 

[ruf]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

I agree with your last sentence for sure.  It looks like some on this thread don't realize the complexity of Oline play.

And a major caveat here is that you can't really simulate the effectiveness in the running game, as I have stated almost every time I've commented on the oline.

 

 

However NCF, our Oline has also been getting beat up quite often in 1 on 1 matchups.  It's pretty evident.  In pass pro, most and at times all 5 linemen are going to be on their own.  Our pass pro was horrendous last season, and that can be largely accounted for by injury, but it was also horrendous late in the season, and unless people are hiding injury, we were mainly healthy.  If we have to chip and keep people in to combat this, then an already underwhelming pass catching unit will be even less whelming. 

 

We don't look like a top unit right now, and if you don't see that, then we just see things differently.  

I think it's imperative to this team's success that the OLINE plays at an elite or at least near elite level since there is so much invested in it, but right now it seems fairly obvious to me anyway that we don't seem to be on that trajectory.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying.. my suggestion is this: we could trade our C Kelly to I think it is the Browns that loss their starting C. maybe we could get an OL from them either G or T that could help us this year

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Golly gee, i believe Ballard and Frank can assess whether out o-line coach is capable. Their jobs, are on the line.

 So Marcus Brady IS the OC, working with his position coaches to teach, assess talent and progress, and leads game planning. 

 You may have missed it, Castanzo, still just 33, who was making $16M, and who was pretty good, left us, and Changed our talent level. Stuff happens.

33 in the league is old and he'd been flirting with retirement for a few years.  And this is year two after AC retired anyway.  Nothing was done except signing an aging vet off a major injury last year, and then crowning a journeyman back up interior lineman tothe LT position while drafting a project in the 3rd round. Plenty to question there. Surprised more of you don't think so.

 

I like the Bavarian as prospect though.  

[ruf]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

From what I’m reading, Raimann sounds like he’s a year away.    I’m not expecting him to be more than the 6th OL and the top backup when someone goes down.   
 

If/when Raimann is ever ready to start at LT, then I think we trade Kelly, then Pryor puts 10 pounds back on to be the RG, and Pinter moves to C.    But I think that happens in 23 or 24. 

I think we should trade Kelly this year i think it was the Browns who loss their C maybe we could get an upgrade RG from them or get a high draft pick for kelly that we could trade for a G or T

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

yes I agree with Bowen.  BTW, I get my news from this board.  I read and watch rarely.  I might skim what someone links here.  So I thought we were still generally expected to be elite.   

 

To me, not being elite when drafting with elite picks and paying elite money is a fundamental problem with our club the way it is constituted.  It's problem now and in the future, IMO. 

 

 

Getting news from this board is risky to me.   
 

This community values opinion over facts.   Has since I arrived more than 10 years ago.   It jumps to questionable conclusions.   It misinterprets comments and decisions.   My comments here are not new and these views make me unpopular with a section of our community.   I’m just saying try to read views  here with a large grain of salt.   

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Opening day can't get here quick enough, when we wipe the floor at Houston the nay-sayers will crawl into the corner with their tail between their legs. 

 

Yeah because beating the worst team in football would be so telling and compelling lol.

 

 

[Nickster]

7 minutes ago, ruf said:

I agree with most of what you are saying.. my suggestion is this: we could trade our C Kelly to I think it is the Browns that loss their starting C. maybe we could get an OL from them either G or T that could help us this year

We'd have to pay his salary, but I am not high on Kelly.  He is average and might be below at this point.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, ruf said:

I think we should trade Kelly this year i think it was the Browns who loss their C maybe we could get an upgrade RG from them or get a high draft pick for kelly that we could trade for a G or T

That’s simply not happening.   One, there would be severe salary cap issues.   Two, at this point in camp, you’d be blowing up our OL with only the hope of fixing it at some point.    Not happening.   Ballard and Frank and the staff like Kelly far more than you and others here. 

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, ruf said:

i think it is necessary to do something like this NOW

if we don't it will be a bad year and all because of the RG position.

now the problem is a good enough LT to take Pryor's place BUT never the less it needs to be done this year

It’s early for me.  They let Glow go in FA.  They obviously felt Pinter was ready to take over.  The same for Pryor.  They feel comfortable with him starting as Raiman develops.  Practically impossible to have all pros across the entire OL.  Q is an all pro, Smith is close an Kelly’s a former all pro who’s no slouch at the position by any means.  The line might not be elite but it’s plenty good enough to get us into the playoffs then anything could happen.

[ruf]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

That’s simply not happening.   One, there would be severe salary cap issues.   Two, at this point in camp, you’d be blowing up our OL with only the hope of fixing it at some point.    Not happening.   Ballard and Frank and the staff like Kelly far more than you and others here. 

true to a point but they need to see that Pinter is not the one that needs to start at RG and here is why:

our wr's are good enough but if the middle of the line is giving in we will not be able to run the ball (see pratice reports with lions). this will allow D to not worry about the run and hurry the qb and this is where our wr's not being elite will hurt us

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Getting news from this board is risky to me.   
 

This community values opinion over facts.   Has since I arrived more than 10 years ago.   It jumps to questionable conclusions.   It misinterprets comments and decisions.   My comments here are not new and these views make me unpopular with a section of our community.   I’m just saying try to read views  here with a large grain of salt.   

I mean it's a clearing house.  I don't go by anyone's opinion.  I mean I only look at stuff generally that is linked here.  So for instance I don't even know who Kevin Bowman is but I think he's a local INDY guy?

 

My opinions are formed by what I think I see and what I think logically concludes from the various things.

 

Like for instance before I've seen Pryor play, I was questioning how a journeyman backup at 27 yo was going to take the LT position.  On the day I was in camp he was far from impressive.   There is a lot of news from beat reporters on our camp threads here showing him getting beat.  He was unimpressive v. BUF and apparently got used in yesterday's practice by DET.

It seems very unlikely that this guy is going to be adequate from the preponderance of the evidence. 

 

If I see differently when the season starts, I'll add it to my sig.  Meanwhile I ENJOY DISCUSSING FOOTBALL NOT BEING A CHEERLEADER.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

That’s simply not happening.   One, there would be severe salary cap issues.   Two, at this point in camp, you’d be blowing up our OL with only the hope of fixing it at some point.    Not happening.   Ballard and Frank and the staff like Kelly far more than you and others here. 

How do you know they like him?  Salary dictates what you can do a lot of the time with Cap issues.  They might like him as a dude, but I doubt they are looking at the film and thinking yes he's worth this elite salary we have been paying him. 

He's average or so.  Good enough for a center really.  What's bad is he eats way too much of the limited resources available for his value.    When you pay elite and don't get elite play, it lessens your chance to get the type of play for the pay at other positions.

Very simple inference really. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Yeah because beating the worst team in football would be so telling and compelling lol.

 

 

I already commented on another thread that some would say that (that beating Houston was no big deal) and there you are of all people 

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, ruf said:

true to a point but they need to see that Pinter is not the one that needs to start at RG and here is why:

our wr's are good enough but if the middle of the line is giving in we will not be able to run the ball (see pratice reports with lions). this will allow D to not worry about the run and hurry the qb and this is where our wr's not being elite will hurt us

Time will tell if our wr’s are good enough.  I would be surprised if Ballard doesn’t make a move there.  You’re overreacting on the run game imo.  Very early and JT isn’t even playing.  No worries for me.