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Management Agrees with Nickster


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https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/27649/why-indianapolis-colts-rb-jonathan-taylors-touches-and-production-are-likely-to-fall-this-season

 

“You don’t see teams that have this ground-and-pound run game win championships,” he said. “You just don’t. I’m sure it’s happened with one or two teams, but our best formula is to be balanced. I’m not saying he won’t lead the league in touches, because you never know how things are going to play out.”

 

been saying this for a while now.

 

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I agree with you on this one. I just want balance. I can't see Taylor duplicating last seasons numbers nor should he have too now that we have Matt Ryan. Taylor will help Matt out but also Matt should help Taylor out. Last season, Taylor had a career season. Wentz threw for just over 3500 yards, Taylor had over 1800 yards rushing. I would like to see Matt at 4000 and if Taylor gains 1500 that is good balance. + Taylor will have fresher legs heading into the playoffs.

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16 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

He has said this from the beginning.

 

 The "Nickster" just has to be rather young. 

  Wentz was so FIRED even with no decent plan B because Frank felt compelled to overuse JT. 

  A Caveman could see it.

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5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The "Nickster" just has to be rather young. 

  Wentz was so FIRED even with no decent plan B because Frank felt compelled to overuse JT. 

  A Caveman could see it.


Nick is not young.   I believe he told me he’s in his late 40’s or early 50’s.     I’m sure he’ll see this and confirm one way or another. 

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1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:


Nick is not young.   I believe he told me he’s in his late 40’s or early 50’s.     I’m sure he’ll see this and confirm one way or another. 

I think he is older than me, I just turned 51. I think Nick may be 55 or so?? I thought he said he was in his 50's a while back.

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Says the right things I guess.

 

Same guy though that in two games, which we won by  a combined score of 72-15 (and never in doubt), ran JT into the ground 64 times... 

 

Good intentions though. 

 

I do think his production/attempts decrease though. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Nickster said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/27649/why-indianapolis-colts-rb-jonathan-taylors-touches-and-production-are-likely-to-fall-this-season

 

“You don’t see teams that have this ground-and-pound run game win championships,” he said. “You just don’t. I’m sure it’s happened with one or two teams, but our best formula is to be balanced. I’m not saying he won’t lead the league in touches, because you never know how things are going to play out.”

 

been saying this for a while now.

 

lol management agrees with you? that's hilarious. 

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8 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The "Nickster" just has to be rather young. 

  Wentz was so FIRED even with no decent plan B because Frank felt compelled to overuse JT. 

  A Caveman could see it.

Lol .  I’m 50 but don’t look a day over 49.5.

 

last quarter century or so since I turned 25 and my car liability insurance dropped I’ve usually not been able to recall my age immediately, but since I hit the big 5 O I can.

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9 hours ago, Nickster said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/27649/why-indianapolis-colts-rb-jonathan-taylors-touches-and-production-are-likely-to-fall-this-season

 

“You don’t see teams that have this ground-and-pound run game win championships,” he said. “You just don’t. I’m sure it’s happened with one or two teams, but our best formula is to be balanced. I’m not saying he won’t lead the league in touches, because you never know how things are going to play out.”

 

been saying this for a while now.

 

I think everyone with a keyboard or a mouth has been saying this since the season ended. Taylor’s touches went sky high simply because it was the only way we could move the ball. Hopefully with Ryan , we can spread things out a bit and keep Taylor fresher longer

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Taylor is our best player on offense but if we lose Matt Ryan we are cooked! Balance is the key. 

Honestly, I’m not so sure. I mean Reich says we got a winning backup QB…..

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I would hope his touches go down for longevity sake. Taylor could be great for 8-10 seasons but at this pace I believe it's looking more like 6 or 7. 

 

I think this season will be a fun one though. Hines is going to go off with those little dump routes that Wentz seemed unable or flat out to refused to cash in on. I mean it's pick your poison this year. Do they load the box for Taylor and let Ryan nickel and dime his way down the field or sit in coverage and just wait for Taylor to bust off a big one. 

 

 

 

 

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Absolutely have to have balance on offense. Need to be able to kill the clock when ahead with a strong run game, but also need to be able to sling it down field to get those explosive plays. All work in tandem. Can’t stack the box trying to stop the run if you got guys on the outside that can take the top off the defense.

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Which is indicative of Frank taking the ball out of Wentz' hands last season.

 

Also, when up by a large margin, you run the ball.  JT is bound to get touches when we are up by a large margin, since our primary backup ground and pound RB is really an APB.

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The ground and pound is helpful during the playoffs when the games slow down.  Still, you need to be able to consistently get 10-15 chunk plays through the air to win in the NFL. Sounds like they understand this and will have a balanced attack to keep defenses honest. 

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3 hours ago, Nickster said:

Frank has but we have a size able contingent on here who think we should just RTDB like it’s the 80s.

 

No there's not.  You're completely misrepresenting the point the "RTDB crowd" was trying to make.  I don't recall a single person ever saying they wanted a run heavy offense.

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On 8/15/2022 at 10:18 AM, Nevbot said:

What people fail to understand that for Hines to be the threat he is meant to be in the passing game, we must be able to give him at least 5 carries a game.  He needs to be considered a threat to run OR pass in order to keep a D honest about how we will utilize him before any play.  For Hines, running the ball sets up his catching and vice versa.  I actually think this could be the only real reason that Frank continually (and stubbornly) keeps running Hines up the middle- in those circumstances, no doubt that the D is defending against Hines up the gut LAST.  

This is definitely the reason why he does it, as he doesn't want the play calling to be predictable when Hines is in.

 

To bad it still is though. Tries to outsmart the defense, but really just plays right into their hands.

 

Hines up the middle is way easier to stop then getting him into the open field with the ball.

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1 minute ago, w87r said:

This is definitely the reason why he does it, as he doesn't want the play calling to be predictable when Hines is in.

 

To bad it still is though. Tries to outsmart the defense, but really just plays right into their hands.

 

Hines up the middle is way easier to stop then getting him into the open field with the ball.

It is an interesting decision for a player caller - Do you always filter your play call to what the D is showing you, or do you filter the call to your strengths and WHO will gives you the best play for success?

Most will say it should be a combination of the two.  Personally, I would rather see us pass more with JT if we really want to mix it up.  More screens and swing passes his way would help us even more than getting Hines touches - because as good as Hines is in open space catching the ball, I would still rather have JT in open space with the ball in his hands. 

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14 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

No there's not.  You're completely misrepresenting the point the "RTDB crowd" was trying to make.  I don't recall a single person ever saying they wanted a run heavy offense.

There were actually a couple people that posted they wanted the team to be real run heavy because they think Matt Ryan is done lmao . One poster even suggested that the only way this team can be successful is if we run Taylor 400 times. I won't mention any names because that would talking behind someone's back. 2 posters out of roughly 100 isn't bad though so you are right for the most part. I want balance. Last season, Wentz threw for 3563 yards and Taylor ran for 1811 yards. I would like to see Matt at 4000 and Taylor at 1500 = more balance + Taylor would be fresher for the playoffs.

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If the passing offense is able to open up this season, I could see Taylor still getting a respectable amount of yards but with less carries. That's a win win scenario in my book. Then we start taking what the defense gives and just play ball. 

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24 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

It is an interesting decision for a player caller - Do you always filter your play call to what the D is showing you, or do you filter the call to your strengths and WHO will gives you the best play for success?

Most will say it should be a combination of the two.  Personally, I would rather see us pass more with JT if we really want to mix it up.  More screens and swing passes his way would help us even more than getting Hines touches - because as good as Hines is in open space catching the ball, I would still rather have JT in open space with the ball in his hands. 

nice post.

 

I expect the offense to look a little more exotic this year with Taylor and Hines on the field together more.

 

I share same sentiment about Taylor in the pass game as well. If you look at the stats the last couple years, Taylor has been more efficient than Hines has.

 

Taylor

2020 - 92.3 catch %, 7.7yds per target, 8.3yds per rec, drops 1

2021 - 78.3 catch %, 7.1yds per target, 9yds per rec, drops 5(still had higher catch %)

 

Hines

2020 - 82.9% catch %, 6.3yds per target, 7.7yds per rec, drops 1

2021 -70.2% catch % 5.4yds per target, 7.8yds per rec, drops 2

 

Another problem is Hines is 11th/12th highest paid RB in the league..... So we need him to be producing, but he is taking away action from one of the best offensive weapons in the league.

 

I know he needs to take some reps off, but I just get frustrated frequently when Hines is at RB. Even more so when they pound him up the middle.

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There were actually a couple people that posted they wanted the team to be real run heavy because they think Matt Ryan is done lmao . One poster even suggested that the only way this team can be successful is if we run Taylor 400 times. I won't mention any names because that would talking behind someone's back. 2 posters out of roughly 100 isn't bad though so you are right for the most part. I want balance. Last season, Wentz threw for 3563 yards and Taylor ran for 1811 yards. I would like to see Matt at 4000 and Taylor at 1500 = more balance + Taylor would be fresher for the playoffs.

 

yeah a couple of extremists definitely does not equal "a size able contingent".  lol

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1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

No there's not.  You're completely misrepresenting the point the "RTDB crowd" was trying to make.  I don't recall a single person ever saying they wanted a run heavy offense.

 

True dat. The "RTDB" came about by virtue of a reminder to not lose sight of the facet of balance when the pass is working. We can get so enamored with it and go away from the occasional sprinkle of balance to keep Ds from teeing off versus the pass. Yes, "RTDB" can mean situationally "don't forget about JT and our OL run blocking as well..", IMO.

 

I remember when Peyton would pass a lot between the 20s and gladly hand it off to Addai and Rhodes in the red zone when the numbers stacked in his favor. Sometimes, even against stout fronts of the Steelers and Ravens, the Colts' O would run it under Peyton, even if it was for a yard or two, to keep Ds honest and sometimes catch them cheating and the LBs retreating if the OL got hat-on-hat vs the DL. That is the true premise for "RTDB".

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So for me, we are set up to be a ground and pound team.  It seems like the team has either evolved that way or was intentionally built that way.  Either way it doesn't really matter.

 

We have an inordinate amount of money and draft capital in all Oline positions with the exception of LT.  Of course all positions run and pass block, but in general the LT is the position that is the pass blocking position.  Usually teams use high draft picks and/or salary on LTs.  Many teams are willing to give up a whole lot to protect the QBs blind side.   We don't seem to be too concerned with that and have much more invested in LG, C, and RT.  

 

Now we seem to be moving on from this by circumstance and/or choice but we've had a primary receiver in Pascal whose biggest talent is pass blocking and the same goes for competent receiver but excellent pass blocker Jack Doyle.

 

We haven't prioritized WR or pass catching TE in the draft, FA, and trades I think we might have spent a late 1st rounder on PC if IIRC, but other than that. we went for Buckner when we could have gone for more impact talent at that draft slot for a pass catcher.  I'm not saying it was necessarily a bad move, but it was a move that was made.

 

Last season we took two more Dlinemen with our highest picks.  Same goes with Big Grove on his FA contract.   Not saying it's a bad move, but it was a move that was made.

 

Last season we paid our back up RB a handsome salary. and we drafted a running back with a high draft choice the year before that.  Not saying they were bad moves but they were moves that were made. 

 

So to me if you look at this, it seems as the org is emphasizing the running game and other areas quite a bit more than the passing game. 

 

Personally, I think there is discord among the GM, Head Coach, and owner.  This is just a circumstantial feeling, but it seems like we have ended up with a run centric offense and when you look at draft history and FA and trades and we don't seem to have the same urgency in the passing game. 

 

Whether or not this investment in the Dline will pan out is in question, but I am certainly not against allocating large amounts of capital in Dline.  Our Dline should be terrorizing people this year.  IF not, then the investment does not match the output.  A dominant Dline is the primary reason IMO  LAR won last year for instance.  

 

To me the words of the org and where they have put there money doesn't match.  If you were really going to work on the passing game, you needed to beat the bushes for a LT and NFL ready WR in trades and FA>

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1 hour ago, Nickster said:

So for me, we are set up to be a ground and pound team.  It seems like the team has either evolved that way or was intentionally built that way.  Either way it doesn't really matter.

 

We have an inordinate amount of money and draft capital in all Oline positions with the exception of LT.  Of course all positions run and pass block, but in general the LT is the position that is the pass blocking position.  Usually teams use high draft picks and/or salary on LTs.  Many teams are willing to give up a whole lot to protect the QBs blind side.   We don't seem to be too concerned with that and have much more invested in LG, C, and RT.  

 

Now we seem to be moving on from this by circumstance and/or choice but we've had a primary receiver in Pascal whose biggest talent is pass blocking and the same goes for competent receiver but excellent pass blocker Jack Doyle.

 

We haven't prioritized WR or pass catching TE in the draft, FA, and trades I think we might have spent a late 1st rounder on PC if IIRC, but other than that. we went for Buckner when we could have gone for more impact talent at that draft slot for a pass catcher.  I'm not saying it was necessarily a bad move, but it was a move that was made.

 

Last season we took two more Dlinemen with our highest picks.  Same goes with Big Grove on his FA contract.   Not saying it's a bad move, but it was a move that was made.

 

Last season we paid our back up RB a handsome salary. and we drafted a running back with a high draft choice the year before that.  Not saying they were bad moves but they were moves that were made. 

 

So to me if you look at this, it seems as the org is emphasizing the running game and other areas quite a bit more than the passing game. 

 

Personally, I think there is discord among the GM, Head Coach, and owner.  This is just a circumstantial feeling, but it seems like we have ended up with a run centric offense and when you look at draft history and FA and trades and we don't seem to have the same urgency in the passing game. 

 

Whether or not this investment in the Dline will pan out is in question, but I am certainly not against allocating large amounts of capital in Dline.  Our Dline should be terrorizing people this year.  IF not, then the investment does not match the output.  A dominant Dline is the primary reason IMO  LAR won last year for instance.  

 

To me the words of the org and where they have put there money doesn't match.  If you were really going to work on the passing game, you needed to beat the bushes for a LT and NFL ready WR in trades and FA>

Pick #18 C

Pick# 15 FS

Pick# 6, 36, 37: G, ILB, RT

Pick# 34 CB

Pick #13 DT

Pick # 34, 41:  X WR, RB

Pick # 17 DE (passed on the LT)

Pick # 53 WR

 

You are correct, whether intentional or not, the capital allocation supports the running game more than the passing game, IMO.

 

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Pick #18 C

Pick# 15 FS

Pick# 6, 36, 37: G, ILB, RT

Pick# 34 CB

Pick #13 DT

Pick # 34, 41:  X WR, RB

Pick # 17 DE (passed on the LT)

Pick # 53 WR

 

You are correct, whether intentional or not, the capital allocation supports the running game more than the passing game, IMO.

 

 

Well you kinda opened me up to the possibility that maybe for Ballard it wasn't a matter of philosophy, but more of a circumstance leading to the roster allocation, but man we don't seem to be too concerned with the passing game. 

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

Well you kinda opened me up to the possibility that maybe for Ballard it wasn't a matter of philosophy, but more of a circumstance leading to the roster allocation, but man we don't seem to be too concerned with the passing game. 

Of course, RG picked the first one, Kelly, but the roster is sided towards easier picks.  Just saying that the positions picked at the spots picked tend to be safer.  Running the ball is more conservative than passing.  Safer = conservative.

 

As you said, not a bad thing.  Just wonder if the regime is executing the plan it wants to execute.

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3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Of course, RG picked the first one, Kelly, but the roster is sided towards easier picks.  Just saying that the positions picked at the spots picked tend to be safer.  Running the ball is more conservative than passing.  Safer = conservative.

 

As you said, not a bad thing.  Just wonder if the regime is executing the plan it wants to execute.

Safe for a GM equals keep your job I guess.  But I think he's put a cap on our team with it.

 

I am not a Frank Lover, but it's hard for me to be overly critical of him as an offensive play caller when his only elite players are a LG and a downhill one cut RB.

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

True dat. The "RTDB" came about by virtue of a reminder to not lose sight of the facet of balance when the pass is working.

 

Reich gets out of balance in both directions at times. But yeah, the mantra was about riding the running game when it's working, and not freezing out one of your best offensive weapons like we did in the Bucs game, or the second Titans game.

 

Anyone who thinks we can ground and pound our way into the playoffs is out of touch. And I'm glad to hear Reich openly express that we won't win a championship that way, because sometimes his public comments sound a little too old school for me.

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4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I am not a Frank Lover, but it's hard for me to be overly critical of him as an offensive play caller when his only elite players are a LG and a downhill one cut RB.

Exactly.

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4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well you kinda opened me up to the possibility that maybe for Ballard it wasn't a matter of philosophy, but more of a circumstance leading to the roster allocation, but man we don't seem to be too concerned with the passing game. 

I

 

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Pick #18 C

Pick# 15 FS

Pick# 6, 36, 37: G, ILB, RT

Pick# 34 CB

Pick #13 DT

Pick # 34, 41:  X WR, RB

Pick # 17 DE (passed on the LT)

Pick # 53 WR

 

You are correct, whether intentional or not, the capital allocation supports the running game more than the passing game, IMO.

 

Wish you would of listed players, so I don't have to think as hard. Lol.

 

 

I don't know? I think that is a little base. 

 

 

Have taken 3 OL(Q, Smith, Kelly(Grigson pick)) and 3 WR(Pittman, Campbell, Pierce in first 2 rounds of draft.

 

While having AC in place before early retirement up until Paye pick(passed on LT), edge was just a big a need and they picked up Fisher(didn't pan out, I guess?) Also this is before TY just totally dropped off the cliff as well.

 

 

Speaking of Fisher, unless I'm mistaken isn't Fisher still available? Wonder what the chances are we bring him back if they are not happy with were Prior/Raimann?

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Reich gets out of balance in both directions at times. But yeah, the mantra was about riding the running game when it's working, and not freezing out one of your best offensive weapons like we did in the Bucs game, or the second Titans game.

 

Anyone who thinks we can ground and pound our way into the playoffs is out of touch. And I'm glad to hear Reich openly express that we won't win a championship that way, because sometimes his public comments sound a little too old school for me.

I remember seeing some fans or even Nelson wearing RTDB on a hat at one point.  Maybe I misremember.

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  • w87r changed the title to Taylor/Hines talk from No Separation thread

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