No Separation

[EastStreet]

51 minutes ago, w87r said:

Just hope we don't come back and regret not bringing in Julio. 

 

Personally I think the Colts would have grabbed him if Ryan pushed to add him. 

At least I would hope that they would have. 

[Moosejawcolt]

9 hours ago, krunk said:

Preseason is for preparing for the season and many times teams dont get into the flow of things until about 3 or 4 regular season games

 To go into the 1st preseason game expecting and acting surprised that you didnt see great play i think youre tripping. For me if a good performance happens thats great but the opposite is more like it.  Its the same kind of attitude many of you guys had about Ballards FA aquisitions and draft before he could even roll the plan out. But after he finished most of you were satisfied. Too much judgement being placed on the start of the process. Keep watching the games and stop trippin over preseason play.

I loved their  acquisitions thos off season. 

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Julio is done so even if the WRs struggle the Colts might not regret bringing in Julio.

Potentially, but potentially he has a good year in TB as well. As long as Brady comes back from his 10 day hiatus.

 

I' m not to worried at the moment. Just a little relevant to the topic right now.

 

Our young guys vs potentially needing a vet vs vet we were linked to going to place where success is increased a little.

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Personally I think the Colts would have grabbed him if Ryan pushed to add him. 

At least I would hope that they would have. 

Yeah, I think so too, as long as money made sense.

 

Definitely think there was a little issue between the 2.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yeah, I think so too, as long as money made sense.

 

Definitely think there was a little issue between the 2.

 

I'm guessing that Ryan was simply comfortable with how we stand in terms of WRs with that type of profile. We have no shortage of 6-3 and over. Gonna be interesting to see how he does with Brady though, and how they choose to use him. I think he'll be a good backup for Evans. They didn't have a lot of bigs like we do. 

[Catloaf]

Hines is probably our second best receiver, and isn't a receiver.  That's our problem, and has been for years.  I'm a Ballard fan but that one is solely on him to fix, and he just... hasn't.  I mean we have a lot of great talent elsewhere, but talented guards and linebackers don't catch touchdowns often.

 

We really need a high-end WR signing.  We can't keep doing this, we're going to get Ryan killed.

 

I know it's only preseason, but I'm just seeing a pattern over the last several years and it plays out like the same generic plot every time.

[bluephantom87]

13 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

You aren’t allowed to criticize in the preseason. Regardless if the issue has been an ongoing one over multiple seasons. Then when the season starts, you can’t criticize until like Week 12 cuz the team needs time to gel. After that, you have to remember that we could always be *insert a team who is worse*. Then when the off-season comes, you cannot say much negative because Ballard and Reich know more football than you so, they’ve got it covered.  Just trying to give you the rules around here Buddy.

 

This.. ^  

[2006Coltsbestever]

48 minutes ago, Catloaf said:

Hines is probably our second best receiver, and isn't a receiver.  That's our problem, and has been for years.  I'm a Ballard fan but that one is solely on him to fix, and he just... hasn't.  I mean we have a lot of great talent elsewhere, but talented guards and linebackers don't catch touchdowns often.

 

We really need a high-end WR signing.  We can't keep doing this, we're going to get Ryan killed.

 

I know it's only preseason, but I'm just seeing a pattern over the last several years and it plays out like the same generic plot every time.

What if Pierce is the answer? He is a rookie but could turn out good or even great. So Ballard addressed WR in this draft, we just have to hope Pierce pans out. Many keep dismissing Pierce like he isn't on the team.

[krunk]

10 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

No gameplan or not the Colt's receivers should've looked better against the Bills backup secondary. Yes it was only a preseason game BUT this has been an ongoing issue with our pedestrian receiving core for a few years now. The national media did not come to that conclusion about our receivers based on yesterday. They like Pittman and don't even classify him as dynamic. More of a talented big receiver who can use his size to make tough catches in traffic and fight for YAC.

 

I'm quite sure they're TRYING in camp to establish what they want to do when the season rolls around but according to camp reports (from our own beat writers) the defense is getting the best of this offense mostly in the passing game and getting to the qb as well which is what I saw also the days I went but....

 

To bring up any concerns about the team on this board means to some that you're A) not a fan B) overreacting C) don't know anything about football or D) have the audacity to question any move or non one made by Ballard who by the way IMO has put together his best built defense this season.

 

I still like Frank as hc but his offense is one from yesteryear. Give the offensive playcalling to a young guru that can help these receivers get some seperation with some pick plays, more pre snap motion from multiple formations, some change of pace no huddle and last but not least STOP the predictable run up the gut on 1st and mostly 2nd downs leading to necessity pass plays on 3rd! Opposing teams are keying on it.

But so what bc it doesnt mean its going to transition into the regular season if they play well in the preseason. Teams regularly play bad in preseason and then good in the regular season.  Theres a huge lack of reps and other things in the preseason that its not that representative of the true product the players have to get used to during the regular season. Often times in preseason they dont even play full speed.

[AKB]

@EastStreet good posts. been enjoying reading your takes more over the last few weeks. not sure what's different but i think you're enjoying yourself more and not taking it so serious. really enjoyable to read. appreciate it

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Catloaf said:

Hines is probably our second best receiver, and isn't a receiver.  That's our problem, and has been for years.  I'm a Ballard fan but that one is solely on him to fix, and he just... hasn't.  I mean we have a lot of great talent elsewhere, but talented guards and linebackers don't catch touchdowns often.

 

We really need a high-end WR signing.  We can't keep doing this, we're going to get Ryan killed.

 

I know it's only preseason, but I'm just seeing a pattern over the last several years and it plays out like the same generic plot every time.

Why do you think you have answers after one pre-season game?   One.   I don’t understand that.  
 

I wouldn’t expect to have answers even after the entire pre-season is over.   I don’t think the answers will show up until the season plays out. 

[Smoke317]

18 hours ago, Two_pound said:

During the Manning years Colt receivers made tons of tough catches when they really weren't that open. The most "open" receiver in recent Colt history I would say has been Hilton. Luck found Hilton running free a lot probably one of the reasons Luck is second all time in pass yards per game. Harrison had some good moves but Manning threaded the needle more times than not. Harrison, Wayne, and Clark all had tremendous hands.

You clearly were only watching Peyton and not his receivers.  Your love for Manning has you making up falsehoods.  Why?  To boosts Peyton’s legacy?  He doesn’t need it.  Nor does Harrison deserve you telling flat out lies about his skills.  Go watch some highlights of 88.  
 

For every tightly contested catch you’ll find twice as many wide open grabs either from double moves, deep posts, go routes, or his true specialty the deep comeback.  The man may have been the greatest route runner of all time.  He wasn’t a physically imposing receiver.  You really think he and Peyton obliterated the receptions records for a season with mostly tight window throws?  Stop it.

 

Oh and Clark got plenty of separation too.  Very few linebackers could stick with Dallas nor many safeties either.  You don’t remember Dallas streaking up the seam or destroying linebackers on those out routes? Go watch some more highlights of 88 & 44 & not just 18’s best throws.

[Two_pound]

Sorry dude, I like Harrison just as much as anyone else. I have a Harrison jersey that I have never worn because I'm not worthy. His hands were impeccable, I remember him making more tough catches in traffic than being wide open during a stroll through the park. I've said on here many, many times one of the most puzzling things about being a Colt fan these past 50+ years is, generally speaking, why are our receivers always covered and the opponents are wide open? We've made average receivers look like hall of famers waaaaaay too often!

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What if Pierce is the answer? He is a rookie but could turn out good or even great. So Ballard addressed WR in this draft, we just have to hope Pierce pans out. Many keep dismissing Pierce like he isn't on the team.

He might be the answer but in likelihood a player like him coming from a primitive, non NFL type of offense at at UCinn will rake a year or two to develop.

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, Two_pound said:

Sorry dude, I like Harrison just as much as anyone else. I have a Harrison jersey that I have never worn because I'm not worthy. His hands were impeccable, I remember him making more tough catches in traffic than being wide open during a stroll through the park. I've said on here many, many times one of the most puzzling things about being a Colt fan these past 50+ years is, generally speaking, why are our receivers always covered and the opponents are wide open? We've made average receivers look like hall of famers waaaaaay too often!

That was more Reggie.  To make sure I wasn’t misremembering, I went and watched a Harrison highlight video on YouTube. It’s labeled quiet storm.  2 part video.  30 minutes worth of highlights.  Had throws from Harbaugh, Justin, and Manning.  80-90% of the catches in the video he created ridiculous amounts of separation.  The commentators even talk about how he embarrassed all pro corners like Law, Aeneas Williams, C. Woodson and others.  And a lot of those were WIDE open.  
 

Now I know those are only highlight plays and not the boring comebacks and quick ins that he perfected because of his speed.  But trust he was getting wide open on those boring routes too.  Peyton was no fool.  He knew from day 1 on the Colts who would get open for him and it was 88.  
 

Now when the playoffs came along, teams wised up and played press man, with the corner in trail technique, and safety help over the top.  Thus throwing off the timing and making Manning have to hold the ball and/or look elsewhere in the hope their pass rush could get home.  We’ll all except the Broncos.  Those fools thought the best corner in the league at the time, Champ Bailey, could cover Marvin 1 on 1 and they got lit up for it every time we faced them in the playoffs. 

[FuedinHatfield]

21 hours ago, Two_pound said:

I don't know, twice yesterday Khalil Shakir was WIDE open just by jogging down the field 15 yards and catching the ball with NO special move or skill set that is apparently required for Colt receivers. I've been a Colt fan for over 50 years and it still amazes me how our opponents receivers are always so open(especially in critical 3rd down situations) and our receivers can never get "separation", heck even Harrison sucked at it Manning was always threading the needle between 2 or more defenders, go figure.

The best Colt WR ever couldn't get separation but constantly bodied DBs with comeback routes and quick slants. Then burnt them to a cinder over the top. I have 5 of whatever it is your taking.

[Two_pound]

Hey smoke thanks for the heads up. I watched all 3 parts of the Harrison "Quite Storm" on you tube. Yep, I kind of forgot about how often he would "set up" defenders with little fakes and shifts to get open. But there were still many many instances where he caught balls with defenders draped all over him. Unfortunately they did not include my favorite Harrison catch of his career. We were playing the Dolphins and he made a step towards the sideline as the ball was arriving, caught the ball as the defender took the outside fake, Harrison caught the ball and spun to the inside and trotted into the end zone from 10 yards out. That was incredible. I guess I shouldn't have said he "sucked" at getting separation. And also I do realize if it were easy everyone could do it. It's just so pathetic that over the years our defense allows it to be so easy!

[Smoke317]

3 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

Hey smoke thanks for the heads up. I watched all 3 parts of the Harrison "Quite Storm" on you tube. Yep, I kind of forgot about how often he would "set up" defenders with little fakes and shifts to get open. But there were still many many instances where he caught balls with defenders draped all over him. Unfortunately they did not include my favorite Harrison catch of his career. We were playing the Dolphins and he made a step towards the sideline as the ball was arriving, caught the ball as the defender took the outside fake, Harrison caught the ball and spun to the inside and trotted into the end zone from 10 yards out. That was incredible. I guess I shouldn't have said he "sucked" at getting separation. And also I do realize if it were easy everyone could do it. It's just so pathetic that over the years our defense allows it to be so easy!

I can’t understand either why our defense recently can’t seem to cover anybody anywhere. Imagine what Peyton would’ve done to some of our defenses with 88, 87, 44, & 83.  Probably have 5-6 TD’s at half and get pulled in the 3rd lol.  And I understand where you’re coming from too.  Teams began to wise up and tried playing more press and holding Marvin and Peyton would have to make some tight window throws.  And he could.  He just didn’t have the laser rocket arm like the commercial said lol.  
 

But what he did have was excellent timing and pre snap recognition.  Also, excellent  anticipation.  I see the same thing with Ryan.  He maybe doesn’t have an 88 or 44 who are gonna run by defenders but he’s got some big bodies (like Peyton had in Denver).  He’s gonna have to throw into a lot of tighter windows.  Back shoulders.  Jump balls.  Pinpoint slants and crossers.  We’re really gonna need Campbell and Hines to do major work from the slot to increase Ryan’s efficiency. It can’t be all tight window throws.

[twfish]

I stopped reading when you said 

On 8/14/2022 at 8:58 AM, bluephantom87 said:

The rookie Pierce has nice hands but even in college with his speed and size was used more as a possession type

This man was a vertical threat through college with 4.3 40 and the go route and the 9 route being his specialty. 

[Myles]

9 hours ago, Catloaf said:

Hines is probably our second best receiver, and isn't a receiver.  That's our problem, and has been for years.  I'm a Ballard fan but that one is solely on him to fix, and he just... hasn't.  I mean we have a lot of great talent elsewhere, but talented guards and linebackers don't catch touchdowns often.

 

We really need a high-end WR signing.  We can't keep doing this, we're going to get Ryan killed.

 

I know it's only preseason, but I'm just seeing a pattern over the last several years and it plays out like the same generic plot every time.

Hines is not better than Pierce, Campbell, Pittman or Dulin.

 

I actually like what we have in the WR room.  

[Nevbot]

21 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  We definitely want to be ready with our run blocking.

 

   Hines running anywhere on the 1st play was the LAST thing i wanted to see. The closer his carries are to ZERO the better i will feel. lol
 Not that i don't like him.  

What people fail to understand that for Hines to be the threat he is meant to be in the passing game, we must be able to give him at least 5 carries a game.  He needs to be considered a threat to run OR pass in order to keep a D honest about how we will utilize him before any play.  For Hines, running the ball sets up his catching and vice versa.  I actually think this could be the only real reason that Frank continually (and stubbornly) keeps running Hines up the middle- in those circumstances, no doubt that the D is defending against Hines up the gut LAST.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I will say this and have said this for a couple years.  You need WR that can get open on their own without being schemed up. When you are solely relying on scheming guys open execution has to be perfect. Which doesn’t always happen. So it is nice to have a guy of two that can just get open on their own.

[RollerColt]

5 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

You clearly were only watching Peyton and not his receivers.  Your love for Manning has you making up falsehoods.  Why?  To boosts Peyton’s legacy?  He doesn’t need it.  Nor does Harrison deserve you telling flat out lies about his skills.  Go watch some highlights of 88.  
 

For every tightly contested catch you’ll find twice as many wide open grabs either from double moves, deep posts, go routes, or his true specialty the deep comeback.  The man may have been the greatest route runner of all time.  He wasn’t a physically imposing receiver.  You really think he and Peyton obliterated the receptions records for a season with mostly tight window throws?  Stop it.

 

Oh and Clark got plenty of separation too.  Very few linebackers could stick with Dallas nor many safeties either.  You don’t remember Dallas streaking up the seam or destroying linebackers on those out routes? Go watch some more highlights of 88 & 44 & not just 18’s best throws.

God, that trio of Harrison, Clark, and Wayne was absolutely devastating. All three were legendary route runners who could get open in a moments notice. 

 

I always like going back to that Tampa comeback game to see them in action. 

[Smoke317]

11 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

God, that trio of Harrison, Clark, and Wayne was absolutely devastating. All three were legendary route runners who could get open in a moments notice. 

 

I always like going back to that Miami comeback game to see them in action. 

That and the Tampa Bay comeback.  I can still remember Keyshawn Johnson being mic’d up and talking down on Marv.  They had us bottled up the first half and we uncharacteristically threw a screen to Marvin that went nowhere and Keyshawn was saying that’s the only way Harrison put up his catch numbers was through screens and short passes.  Then 88 & 18 proceeded to shred Ronde and the defending Super Bowl champs in the 4th.  I loved seeing Keyshawn have to eat those words when Marv showed him that it’s levels to playing receiver and he just wasn’t on 88’s level.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

That and the Tampa Bay comeback.  I can still remember Keyshawn Johnson being mic’d up and talking down on Marv.  They had us bottled up the first half and we uncharacteristically threw a screen to Marvin that went nowhere and Keyshawn was saying that’s the only way Harrison put up his catch numbers was through screens and short passes.  Then 88 & 18 proceeded to shred Ronde and the defending Super Bowl champs in the 4th.  I loved seeing Keyshawn have to eat those words when Marv showed him that it’s levels to playing receiver and he just wasn’t on 88’s level.  

I was at work that night listening to Lamey, one of the greatest games ever played. When it got to 35-28 I felt like we had them with the way things were going. 

[RollerColt]

5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

That and the Tampa Bay comeback.  I can still remember Keyshawn Johnson being mic’d up and talking down on Marv.  They had us bottled up the first half and we uncharacteristically threw a screen to Marvin that went nowhere and Keyshawn was saying that’s the only way Harrison put up his catch numbers was through screens and short passes.  Then 88 & 18 proceeded to shred Ronde and the defending Super Bowl champs in the 4th.  I loved seeing Keyshawn have to eat those words when Marv showed him that it’s levels to playing receiver and he just wasn’t on 88’s level.  

Yes, it was Tampa. I misremembered lol. 

 

We had an awesome 2003 team. Friggin' Williams as our running back too. It gets overlooked, but we've honestly had a lot of great running backs over the years. 

[w87r]

18 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 I can still remember Keyshawn Johnson being mic’d up and talking down on Marv.

"That how he gets his catches?"

 

 

Yeah he wasn't saying much as that sub 5 minute 4th quarter comeback played out.

[w87r]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was at work that night listening to Lamey, one of the greatest games ever played. When it got to 35-28 I felt like we had them with the way things were going. 

Definitely was watching that one live. Sucks you had to work. Imagine Lamely brought it to life through words though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Yes, it was Tampa. I misremembered lol. 

 

We had an awesome 2003 team. Friggin' Williams as our running back too. It gets overlooked, but we've honestly had a lot of great running backs over the years. 

We would've won the SB that year but the Pats were in our way holding our WR's in the AFC Title Game  

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Definitely was watching that one live. Sucks you had to work. Imagine Lamely brought it to life through words though.

Lamey was going nuts  . He was the best.

[Nevbot]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

God, that trio of Harrison, Clark, and Wayne was absolutely devastating. All three were legendary route runners who could get open in a moments notice. 

 

I always like going back to that Tampa comeback game to see them in action. 

How can you not mention Brandon Stokley, who was probably a top 5 slot receiver of his era.  He, along with Reggie and Marvin, all had over 1000 yards receiving and 10 TDs in Peyton's Record Breaking 49 TD year IIRC.  Stokley and Dallas Clark really brought this team from already great to over-the-top spoiled with receiving talent.  Reggie would have been a 1 on every other team and Stokley probably a 2.  Factor Edge into the equation?  Really shows how crappy the D was in most of those years.  We should have walked into a few more SB's

[Superman]

Just because there weren't a lot of big passing plays doesn't mean there was no separation. The team will see this play in film review and understand how they can weaponize Pierce. 

 

If you haven't watched the all 22, you don't know whether there was separation or not. 

 

 

[RollerColt]

28 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

How can you not mention Brandon Stokley, who was probably a top 5 slot receiver of his era.  He, along with Reggie and Marvin, all had over 1000 yards receiving and 10 TDs in Peyton's Record Breaking 49 TD year IIRC.  Stokley and Dallas Clark really brought this team from already great to over-the-top spoiled with receiving talent.  Reggie would have been a 1 on every other team and Stokley probably a 2.  Factor Edge into the equation?  Really shows how crappy the D was in most of those years.  We should have walked into a few more SB's

Absolutely. I loved Stokley, the guy helped Manning get to 49 TDs after all. Yes, we honestly had such a powerhouse of offensive talent. 

[runthepost]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We would've won the SB that year but the Pats were in our way holding our WR's in the AFC Title Game  

Lamey was going nuts  . He was the best.

03,05,06 could have been the years we won it all. Especially 05 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

You can see clearly from this clip Pierce got plenty of separation Saturday. 
 

 

[Pat Curtis]

At first I couldn't understand how someone actually formulated the thought of Marvin Harrison "sucking" at getting separation...I mean...Charles Woodson even said he was the most challenging WR he every faced...ever.

 

But then....it hit me.  My 15 year old son's friends have access to the internet.  And it all makes sense now....

[Indy87]

I'm more worried about drops than their ability to get open. Hard to get yards when your guys constantly dropping the ball. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:10 PM, Catloaf said:

Hines is probably our second best receiver, and isn't a receiver.  That's our problem, and has been for years.  I'm a Ballard fan but that one is solely on him to fix, and he just... hasn't.  I mean we have a lot of great talent elsewhere, but talented guards and linebackers don't catch touchdowns often.

 

We really need a high-end WR signing.  We can't keep doing this, we're going to get Ryan killed.

 

I know it's only preseason, but I'm just seeing a pattern over the last several years and it plays out like the same generic plot every time.

We are to expensive to sign as u have to draft your own. It is embarrassing how this gm has been unable to draft players at DE, WR and even outside corner. Sure we have a great guard and a weak side line backer. Those 2 missed games last year and we didn't miss a beat. Ballard keeps getting pass after pass and he irritates me with his self deprecating laugh.  I love how people blame Reich and sure he has his faults. Just look what Ballard has given en him to work with. 6 different starting qbs and one receiver who is not a game changer. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Indy87]

17 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

 

Hopefully this is as simple as it being a new team for Ryan. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

28 minutes ago, Indy87 said:

 

Hopefully this is as simple as it being a new team for Ryan. 

Or maybe the plan during the game was to work on underneath stuff. This was basically a glorified practice.