No Separation

[bluephantom87]

Another "new" qb but the same recurring theme. There's no "explosive or dynamic" wide receivers on this team that can stretch opposing secondaries in today's wide open explosive NFL. We have no one that commands a double team or puts fear in the vertical game that you have to account for on a consistent basis.

 

Pittman is a dawg but not that type of receiver. In a spread offense with his skillset Pitt would be a nightmare match-up as a 2 or 3 against opposing corners. The rookie Pierce has nice hands but even in college with his speed and size was used more as a possession type. Dulin, Patmon, Coutee and Campbell are "just guys" who for whatever reason whether it's due to injuries or simply the fact that they're just underwhelming at the NFL level. Regardless of whoever was going to be qb1 on this team for the season we've all seen this collection of receivers before to realize upgrades were needed at that position. Thus why some outside of Indy don't even see the Colts as a legit threat. Unless JT can get one or two of those big runs a game this offense lacks big play abilities.

 

With our starting offense Matt was forced to throw short passes into some VERY tight windows while the pocket was collapsing against the Bills SECOND stringers and that's a BIG problem moving forward. You have given an aging non mobile passing qb a shakey pass protecting o-line (who by the way ranked almost dead last in that category a season ago) and no receivers that have burst or wiggle off the line. This has also played out in training camp so far against our own starting defense. I heard Rick say the dreaded "Our receivers can't get any separation" during the game and that he would like to see those guys TRY to stretch the field by challenging the seams. This has been an ongoing issue for the past few years.

 

Some can chalk this as a vanilla ran scheme for the preseason but I see it as a recurring PROBLEM in Frank's 3yd and a cloud of dust type of BASIC offense that opposing defenses were starting to put the clamps on toward the end of last season by focusing on JT which in turn forced Carson to hold the ball waiting for a receiver to get open and bad things happened. The only difference now is that Matt like Rivers before him will dump off to Hines or JT out the backfield when the play breaks down but still is that your big play offense? By the way what is Frank's offensive system anyway? I do love the young collection of TE's but can they be utilized to become weapons in their own rights? Only time will tell.

 

By the way I miss the days of Peyton and Luck early with BA that when our defense came up with a turnover they tried to make you pay immediately with a big play over the top. Now it usually starts with a run up the middle and ends with a going for it on a 4th and 2 in a 10 yd span. 

[Jackie Daytona]

Preseason

 

No game planning

 

THEN no seperation.

 

 

[RollerColt]

[Nickster]

Eyes want to see a little better v. Non starters because the brain tells us it should happen.  1st game of pre season doesn’t tell a lot.

 

but receiver issues have been persistent during camp.  So that makes what we saw possibly a little more meaningful.

 

I think our LT situation is going to really cause us issues.  I think Pryor is a valuable NFL player, but he’s 27 and I don’t think he’s ever been the preferred starter though he’s filled in competently at several positions.  
But I think handing him the starting job at LT is quite a stretch.

I have a hard time seeing him hold up at an acceptable level all season.  Again last night on its own no big deal, but he’s also had issues in camp.

[BigO]

Ballard and Reich are always saying they are happy with our WR group. Well what are they seeing that we are not. Every defense is going to play tight in your face man against our WR. Our WR do not have the skill set to beat tight man to man. And then when you have a 37 year old QB that can't move and without a lot of zip left on his throws plus an offensive line that has trouble in pass pro things will not be good.

[luv_pony_express]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I think our LT situation is going to really cause us issues. 

I do too.  And it’s been gnawing at me the entire off-season.

 

We signed Pryor to a 1 year deal.  Raimann is obviously very raw.

 

We keep trying to get by cheap on one of the most important positions on the offense.  There’s a reason that good LTs are paid a king’s ransom.

 

I think we’ll be fretting about that position a lot this year.

[JMichael557]

While not quite ready yet Rainmann played very well. He did get beat one time but that was not bad for how much he played.  

 

People are talking about separation. On Pierces 2 catches it looked to me like he had great separation. 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

[Two_pound]

I don't know, twice yesterday Khalil Shakir was WIDE open just by jogging down the field 15 yards and catching the ball with NO special move or skill set that is apparently required for Colt receivers. I've been a Colt fan for over 50 years and it still amazes me how our opponents receivers are always so open(especially in critical 3rd down situations) and our receivers can never get "separation", heck even Harrison sucked at it Manning was always threading the needle between 2 or more defenders, go figure.

[Mr.Debonair]

1 hour ago, bluephantom87 said:

Another "new" qb but the same recurring theme. There's no "explosive or dynamic" wide receivers on this team that can stretch opposing secondaries in today's wide open explosive NFL. We have no one that commands a double team or puts fear in the vertical game that you have to account for on a consistent basis.

 

Pittman is a dawg but not that type of receiver. In a spread offense with his skillset Pitt would be a nightmare match-up as a 2 or 3 against opposing corners. The rookie Pierce has nice hands but even in college with his speed and size was used more as a possession type. Dulin, Patmon, Coutee and Campbell are "just guys" who for whatever reason whether it's due to injuries or simply the fact that they're just underwhelming at the NFL level. Regardless of whoever was going to be qb1 on this team for the season we've all seen this collection of receivers before to realize upgrades were needed at that position. Thus why some outside of Indy don't even see the Colts as a legit threat. Unless JT can get one or two of those big runs a game this offense lacks big play abilities.

 

With our starting offense Matt was forced to throw short passes into some VERY tight windows while the pocket was collapsing against the Bills SECOND stringers and that's a BIG problem moving forward. You have given an aging non mobile passing qb a shakey pass protecting o-line (who by the way ranked almost dead last in that category a season ago) and no receivers that have burst or wiggle off the line. This has also played out in training camp so far against our own starting defense. I heard Rick say the dreaded "Our receivers can't get any separation" during the game and that he would like to see those guys TRY to stretch the field by challenging the seams. This has been an ongoing issue for the past few years.

 

Some can chalk this as a vanilla ran scheme for the preseason but I see it as a recurring PROBLEM in Frank's 3yd and a cloud of dust type of BASIC offense that opposing defenses were starting to put the clamps on toward the end of last season by focusing on JT which in turn forced Carson to hold the ball waiting for a receiver to get open and bad things happened. The only difference now is that Matt like Rivers before him will dump off to Hines or JT out the backfield when the play breaks down but still is that your big play offense? By the way what is Frank's offensive system anyway? I do love the young collection of TE's but can they be utilized to become weapons in their own rights? Only time will tell.

 

By the way I miss the days of Peyton and Luck early with BA that when our defense came up with a turnover they tried to make you pay immediately with a big play over the top. Now it usually starts with a run up the middle and ends with a going for it on a 4th and 2 in a 10 yd span. 

You aren’t allowed to criticize in the preseason. Regardless if the issue has been an ongoing one over multiple seasons. Then when the season starts, you can’t criticize until like Week 12 cuz the team needs time to gel. After that, you have to remember that we could always be *insert a team who is worse*. Then when the off-season comes, you cannot say much negative because Ballard and Reich know more football than you so, they’ve got it covered.  Just trying to give you the rules around here Buddy.

[Fluke_33]

5 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

I don't know, twice yesterday Khalil Shakir was WIDE open just by jogging down the field 15 yards and catching the ball with NO special move or skill set that is apparently required for Colt receivers. I've been a Colt fan for over 50 years and it still amazes me how our opponents receivers are always so open(especially in critical 3rd down situations) and our receivers can never get "separation", heck even Harrison sucked at it Manning was always threading the needle between 2 or more defenders, go figure.

Harrison sucked at getting separation?  That isn’t how I recall it.   

[Solid84]

8 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

I don't know, twice yesterday Khalil Shakir was WIDE open just by jogging down the field 15 yards and catching the ball with NO special move or skill set that is apparently required for Colt receivers. I've been a Colt fan for over 50 years and it still amazes me how our opponents receivers are always so open(especially in critical 3rd down situations) and our receivers can never get "separation", heck even Harrison sucked at it Manning was always threading the needle between 2 or more defenders, go figure.

Don't know about Harrison, but the rest I agree with.

[Nickster]

Just now, Fluke_33 said:

Harrison sucked at getting separation?  That isn’t how I recall it.   

I remember him streaking down the field by himself many times.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Fluke_33 said:

Harrison sucked at getting separation?  That isn’t how I recall it.   

Harrison is a top 5 WR of all-time. Not sure where his post is coming from. Harrison's speed alone had him wide open 75% of the time.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Harrison is a top 5 WR of all-time. Not sure where his post is coming from. Harrison's speed alone had him wide open 75% of the time.

That’s a bit exaggerated but I remember seeing him open frequently.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Nickster said:

That’s a bit exaggerated but I remember seeing him open frequently.

Ok 74% of the time 

[IndyEric07]

Question is, how is Reggie teaching these guys in practice when it comes to separation!? Reggie wasnt the best at separation, but made up for it with incredible hands!

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

You aren’t allowed to criticize in the preseason. Regardless if the issue has been an ongoing one over multiple seasons. Then when the season starts, you can’t criticize until like Week 12 cuz the team needs time to gel. After that, you have to remember that we could always be *insert a team who is worse*. Then when the off-season comes, you cannot say much negative because Ballard and Reich know more football than you so, they’ve got it covered.  Just trying to give you the rules around here Buddy.

Good rules, you are in charge of laying down the rules 

[Mr.Debonair]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good rules, you are in charge of laying down the rules 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Hey now if we lose to the Texans on opening day, these rules will be broken you know that right 

[Two_pound]

During the Manning years Colt receivers made tons of tough catches when they really weren't that open. The most "open" receiver in recent Colt history I would say has been Hilton. Luck found Hilton running free a lot probably one of the reasons Luck is second all time in pass yards per game. Harrison had some good moves but Manning threaded the needle more times than not. Harrison, Wayne, and Clark all had tremendous hands.

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, IndyEric07 said:

Question is, how is Reggie teaching these guys in practice when it comes to separation!? Reggie wasnt the best at separation, but made up for it with incredible hands!

Reggie was a great route runner.  That’s a big part of how you create separation in the NFL.  

[Mr.Debonair]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Hey now if we lose to the Texans on opening day, these rules will be broken you know that right 

Sir, any rule breakers before week 12 will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The Jags get paid to win games too. (I think that’s how you’re supposed to look at things according to the gatekeepers)

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Reggie was a great route runner.  That’s a big part of how you create separation in the NFL.  

Yeah Harrison used speed, Reggie used brains - knowing where to be. I am shocked Campbell isn't always open with his speed. TY Hilton in is his younger days would use speed a lot just enough to get open.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Sir, any rule breakers before week 12 will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The Jags get paid to win games too. (I think that’s how you’re supposed to look at things according to the gatekeepers)

Week 12 it is - court is dismissed.

[Indyfan4life]

Running good routes will get you open and separation. I highly doubt our receivers were running any actual plays and routes they’ll do in the regular season. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We have 3 track guys who can run 4.3. This is just not correct. They were barely running any concepts. That’s what gets guys open most of the time.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Harrison used speed, Reggie used brains - knowing where to be. I am shocked Campbell isn't always open with his speed. TY Hilton is his younger days would use speed a lot just enough to get open.

Your going to see him alot  more open this year with Matt’s quick release in the middle of the field. Campbell was rivers favorited target in those first couple games before he got hurt in 2020

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Your going to see him alot  more open this year with Matt’s quick release in the middle of the field. Campbell was rivers favorited target in those first couple games before he got hurt in 2020

I hope so, he should be with that speed. 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

Still optimistic on our receivers progress.  Maybe next year we can look more at the smaller receivers that have production in their collegiate career, instead of constantly over stressing about size.  Can’t continue to potentially miss out on good prospects because of size.  Our history as a team have consistently shown more success with smaller size receivers

[DEColtsLover36]

58 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

You aren’t allowed to criticize in the preseason. Regardless if the issue has been an ongoing one over multiple seasons. Then when the season starts, you can’t criticize until like Week 12 cuz the team needs time to gel. After that, you have to remember that we could always be *insert a team who is worse*. Then when the off-season comes, you cannot say much negative because Ballard and Reich know more football than you so, they’ve got it covered.  Just trying to give you the rules around here Buddy.

 

[Breeze]

For perspective, every fan base thinks their receivers can’t get separation.  When we’re on offense, we tend to focus more on the incompletions, and when we’re on defense, we focus on the completions against us. 

[Four2itus]

So....what is this thing you are watching?

 

It's called football. I watch to see my team....thats the one in blue...win the game. If they win enough games, they go all the way to the final game, the Superbowl. 

 

Do you enjoy it?

 

Yes.

 

Then why are you yelling at the screen that the coach should be fired, and that your team never gets this right, and that the G.M.? doesn't know what he is doing?

 

Because they never seem to get stuff right. 

 

And how often are you happy when you watch this game?

 

My team? Not very often.....when we won the SB in 2006....well, at the end of the season.

 

How many times have you been happy about a season in your life?

 

Well,.....I guess once.......right at the end of that season.

 

Well, that makes sense. (rolls eyes and walks away)

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, DEColtsLover36 said:

 

- order please, we already agreed on week 12 

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

That’s a bit exaggerated but I remember seeing him open frequently.

It’s not like there’s ANY exaggeration in this post….

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, coltsfeva said:

It’s not like there’s ANY exaggeration in this post….

Yeah when I watched the Colts back in the day when the Colts  had Marvin, it seemed like he was open all the time so I came up with 75% of the time. Nobody could really cover him from around 2002-2006.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Two_pound said:

I don't know, twice yesterday Khalil Shakir was WIDE open just by jogging down the field 15 yards and catching the ball with NO special move or skill set that is apparently required for Colt receivers. I've been a Colt fan for over 50 years and it still amazes me how our opponents receivers are always so open(especially in critical 3rd down situations) and our receivers can never get "separation", heck even Harrison sucked at it Manning was always threading the needle between 2 or more defenders, go figure.

Its because we play a lot of zone against talented WRs, because we have too,  and the opponent plays a lot of tight man coverage against our JAG WRs , because they can.  

 

But this first preseason game is nothing more than a glorified practice, so I would not take much away from it.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, IndyEric07 said:

Question is, how is Reggie teaching these guys in practice when it comes to separation!? Reggie wasnt the best at separation, but made up for it with incredible hands!

He was a master at finding space in zones too.

[Nickster]

38 minutes ago, Breeze said:

For perspective, every fan base thinks their receivers can’t get separation.  When we’re on offense, we tend to focus more on the incompletions, and when we’re on defense, we focus on the completions against us. 

Nature of the beast.  In the end you are what your record says you are.

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Another "new" qb but the same recurring theme. There's no "explosive or dynamic" wide receivers on this team that can stretch opposing secondaries in today's wide open explosive NFL. We have no one that commands a double team or puts fear in the vertical game that you have to account for on a consistent basis.

 

Pittman is a dawg but not that type of receiver. In a spread offense with his skillset Pitt would be a nightmare match-up as a 2 or 3 against opposing corners. The rookie Pierce has nice hands but even in college with his speed and size was used more as a possession type. Dulin, Patmon, Coutee and Campbell are "just guys" who for whatever reason whether it's due to injuries or simply the fact that they're just underwhelming at the NFL level. Regardless of whoever was going to be qb1 on this team for the season we've all seen this collection of receivers before to realize upgrades were needed at that position. Thus why some outside of Indy don't even see the Colts as a legit threat. Unless JT can get one or two of those big runs a game this offense lacks big play abilities.

 

With our starting offense Matt was forced to throw short passes into some VERY tight windows while the pocket was collapsing against the Bills SECOND stringers and that's a BIG problem moving forward. You have given an aging non mobile passing qb a shakey pass protecting o-line (who by the way ranked almost dead last in that category a season ago) and no receivers that have burst or wiggle off the line. This has also played out in training camp so far against our own starting defense. I heard Rick say the dreaded "Our receivers can't get any separation" during the game and that he would like to see those guys TRY to stretch the field by challenging the seams. This has been an ongoing issue for the past few years.

 

Some can chalk this as a vanilla ran scheme for the preseason but I see it as a recurring PROBLEM in Frank's 3yd and a cloud of dust type of BASIC offense that opposing defenses were starting to put the clamps on toward the end of last season by focusing on JT which in turn forced Carson to hold the ball waiting for a receiver to get open and bad things happened. The only difference now is that Matt like Rivers before him will dump off to Hines or JT out the backfield when the play breaks down but still is that your big play offense? By the way what is Frank's offensive system anyway? I do love the young collection of TE's but can they be utilized to become weapons in their own rights? Only time will tell.

 

By the way I miss the days of Peyton and Luck early with BA that when our defense came up with a turnover they tried to make you pay immediately with a big play over the top. Now it usually starts with a run up the middle and ends with a going for it on a 4th and 2 in a 10 yd span. 

 

 

  WHaaaaaaaa!