Wentz Was Good v. Jax in Week 18

[Boondoggle]

11 hours ago, Nickster said:

Definitely a flawed QB but better than average.

Not to be the fact checker at the party that everyone hates but a quick look at the 15th ranked QB in passer rating last season gives you Derrick Carr.  So he's probably a somewhere in the 20s guy at best.  There's a lot of QBs like him out there, guys with flaws that keep them from growing into the ones who have seen it all.

 

QB is a position of long term attrition.  You're not going to get where Rodgers is without years and years of experience and playoff seasoning.  The time required can change QB to QB and based on what's around you to include your coaching but it's gonna be many seasons to master the position at this level.  So you have to actually survive long enough to master at least one offense, and in this case surviving means keeping your starting job and garnering enough snaps to learn what you need to learn to get to that point.  Some guys have zero shot at getting there.  Others have the talent and shot but clearly don't understand the long term learning requirement.

 

And of course there's always young talented QBs coming into the league and both fans and teams wanting to put you on the bench for them.  Only a limited number of jobs.  So right now Wentz had better realize how important this next year is and make it important or even with his talent he's gonna find himself bounced out of the league.  And he's not the only one, there's some others out there like say Winston.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

The OL and DL were next level bad. If your looking at 22 starters, Wentz was not top 10 in terms of level of suck. 

That’s basically what we saw.  A different QB was going to have a similar result.  In that game.

 

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

Not to be the fact checker at the party that everyone hates but a quick look at the 15th ranked QB in passer rating last season gives you Derrick Carr.  So he's probably a somewhere in the 20s guy at best.  There's a lot of QBs like him out there, guys with flaws that keep them from growing into the ones who have seen it all.

 

QB is a position of long term attrition.  You're not going to get where Rodgers is without years and years of experience and playoff seasoning.  The time required can change QB to QB and based on what's around you to include your coaching but it's gonna be many seasons to master the position at this level.  So you have to actually survive long enough to master at least one offense, and in this case surviving means keeping your starting job and garnering enough snaps to learn what you need to learn to get to that point.  Some guys have zero shot at getting there.  Others have the talent and shot but clearly don't understand the long term learning requirement.

 

And of course there's always young talented QBs coming into the league and both fans and teams wanting to put you on the bench for them.  Only a limited number of jobs.  So right now Wentz had better realize how important this next year is and make it important or even with his talent he's gonna find himself bounced out of the league.  And he's not the only one, there's some others out there like say Winston.

Well he was 9th in QBR, according to ESPN. Article  I just read said he was 13 in passer rating among qualifiers.   These are subjective stats that have a great deal of influence out of the QBs hands.  We know the line was bad.  The pass catchers are pedestrian.  He had the ankle injuries early.

 

There are all kinds of variables and opinions.  But he was decent overall.  IMO.  I think PFF graded him around 15 and rated him 22 which I am not sure what that means.

 

CW will stay around the league with his talent.  Might be a critical year to remain a starter.  He’s over 500 as a starter and has a really good int/to ratio for his career plus he’s mobile.  I think he’s might surprise some people in Washington. They have talented skill positions and will have better pass blocking than Wentz had last year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

Well he was 9th in QBR, according to ESPN. Article  I just read said he was 13 in passer rating among qualifiers.   These are subjective stats that have a great deal of influence out of the QBs hands.  We know the line was bad.  The pass catchers are pedestrian.  He had the ankle injuries early.

 

There are all kinds of variables and opinions.  But he was decent overall.  IMO.  I think PFF graded him around 15 and rated him 22 which I am not sure what that means.

 

CW will stay around the league with his talent.  Might be a critical year to remain a starter.  He’s over 500 as a starter and has a really good int/to ratio for his career plus he’s mobile.  I think he’s might surprise some people in Washington. They have talented skill positions and will have better pass blocking than Wentz had last year.

And he is 1st in making bone headed plays lmao. He is on the same level as Tannehill, Murray, Baker, and Hurts. Not bad but basically above average. Matt Ryan even at 37 is better than all 4 of those guys. I would take Cousins over those 4 as well.

 

A top half of the league ranking would probably look like this:

1. Mahomes

2. Rodgers

3. Brady

4. Allen

5. Wilson 

6. Stafford

7. Burrow 

8. Herbert

9. Jackson 

10. Matt Ryan 

11. Carr

12. Dak

13. Jimmy G

14. Cousins 

15. Tannehill 

16. Murray

I didn't even include Watson and I still don't have Wentz in the top 16.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

And he is 1st in making bone headed plays lmao. He is on the same level as Tannehill, Murray, Baker, and Hurts. Not bad but basically above average. Matt Ryan even at 37 is better than all 4 of those guys. I would take Cousins over those 4 as well.

 

A top half of the league ranking would probably look like this:

1. Mahomes

2. Rodgers

3. Brady

4. Allen

5. Wilson 

6. Stafford

7. Burrow 

8. Herbert

9. Jackson 

10. Matt Ryan 

11. Carr

12. Dak

13. Jimmy G

14. Cousins 

15. Tannehill 

16. Murray

I didn't even include Watson and I still don't have Wentz in the top 16.

I don’t rate Ryan or JG that high, I know he was your boy, but other than that I don’t disagree with anything you said there in terms of whose in th stop half.  I’d rate Burrow higher and Wilson lower at this point, but  I don’t see Ryan being better than DAk, Carr, or Murray.  I’d rate Tannehill and Cousins right there.

 

hopefully, he’ll fit in here and it really might work.  I am not more than tepidly hopeful about him.  I don’t think he fits here better than Rivers but I thought Rivers was woefully underrated on this board.  If he can perform as good as PR did when he was here, we should be some better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

39 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I don’t rate Ryan or JG that high, I know he was your boy, but other than that I don’t disagree with anything you said there in terms of whose in th stop half.  I’d rate Burrow higher and Wilson lower at this point, but  I don’t see Ryan being better than DAk, Carr, or Murray.  I’d rate Tannehill and Cousins right there.

 

hopefully, he’ll fit in here and it really might work.  I am not more than tepidly hopeful about him.  I don’t think he fits here better than Rivers but I thought Rivers was woefully underrated on this board.  If he can perform as good as PR did when he was here, we should be some better.

Yeah glad you like my rankings, they are close to being spot on. I have Jimmy G rated higher than most but all the guy does is win. I know you like Murray a lot but he has a lot to prove.

[Boondoggle]

I don't think Tannehill is great by any means but he's a solid QB who can make his reads and dish the ball when things around him are good.  Wentz isn't to that level yet.  Wentz is more of a crazy upside type who still hasn't shown consistency when things are good around him.

 

If I'm Wentz's representation right now I am telling him to shut his mouth, take the coaching, and prioritize taking care of the ball instead of trying to be a hero every snap.  The guy is immensely talented but if you're not right upstairs none of that is going to matter.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

On 7/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

I agree with you.  The vaunted OL was horrendous that day.  Jax front destroyed them all game.  Fisher, Nelson and Kelly got smoked all day by that undersized line.  

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, Boondoggle said:

I don't think Tannehill is great by any means but he's a solid QB who can make his reads and dish the ball when things around him are good.  Wentz isn't to that level yet.  Wentz is more of a crazy upside type who still hasn't shown consistency when things are good around him.

 

If I'm Wentz's representation right now I am telling him to shut his mouth, take the coaching, and prioritize taking care of the ball instead of trying to be a hero every snap.  The guy is immensely talented but if you're not right upstairs none of that is going to matter.

 

Agree on the representation 100%. I think Tannehill's arm is far less than Wentz. Overall, Tannehill just isn't asked to do a lot. He does have good wheels though. IMO, we've over-schemed on the conservative side since Luck retired. Rivers was really the only QB cut out to be that guy. It'll be interesting to see what WA asked Wentz to do this season. If his OL pass pro is similarly awful like ours was last season, I'd expect similar results. 

[Boondoggle]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Agree on the representation 100%. I think Tannehill's arm is far less than Wentz. Overall, Tannehill just isn't asked to do a lot. He does have good wheels though. IMO, we've over-schemed on the conservative side since Luck retired. Rivers was really the only QB cut out to be that guy. It'll be interesting to see what WA asked Wentz to do this season. If his OL pass pro is similarly awful like ours was last season, I'd expect similar results. 

Yeah I don't think Washington is a good spot for a QB.  Wentz has a lot of issues right now for sure and I don't see them being corrected in that environment.  I expect them to lose a ton of games, then endure a coaching change, and Wentz's status will be in limbo from there.

[Nickster]

29 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Agree on the representation 100%. I think Tannehill's arm is far less than Wentz. Overall, Tannehill just isn't asked to do a lot. He does have good wheels though. IMO, we've over-schemed on the conservative side since Luck retired. Rivers was really the only QB cut out to be that guy. It'll be interesting to see what WA asked Wentz to do this season. If his OL pass pro is similarly awful like ours was last season, I'd expect similar results. 

East I don’t think I’ve really seen your clear thoughts on Ryan.  What do you think?

 

We are in such flux on the line it’s hard to be definitive.  I know you’ve said you are not too concerned with LT but I am.  Prior may be OK and to me that’s all he’s got to be, but the staff is saying it’s an open competition.  To me a 3rd round Teutonic LT to start the season seems unlikely to be adequate.  I like central European as a project, but would be very surprised if he’s ready to play right now.  So if it’s not just coach speak it seems less than confident about Prior.  If we have a swinging gate at Lt it’s going to be a rough season.
 

you also rate our pass catchers way better than I do.

 

So it’s hard to rate Ryan with these variables, but this is the way I see it.   I’d be really surprised if Ryan is as good running our O than Rivers.  From what everyone complains about as far as Wentz shortcomings, those were PRs strengths.  That being said I thought he did a great job with what we had and really wanted him back.  I am not sure if the line will be as good for Ryan as it was for Rivers when AC was healthy, but our D should be some and maybe significantly better.

 

so how do you rate Ryan coming in?  Compared to CW?  Compared to Ryan?  How likely do you think our O is much better with Ryan as it was last year?

 

[EastStreet]

45 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Yeah I don't think Washington is a good spot for a QB.  Wentz has a lot of issues right now for sure and I don't see them being corrected in that environment.  I expect them to lose a ton of games, then endure a coaching change, and Wentz's status will be in limbo from there.

 

WA's OL should be much better this season. Added Leno at LT. Cosmi at RT. And have a stud C. So long as Leno plays up to his ceiling, Wentz will likely be much better protected than Indy last season. 

 

And he'll have a better WR unit than he had in Indy. McLaurin, who is obviously good and has a high ceiling. Dotson, their first round draft pick should be a stud. And Samuel was a rising talent until he ran into groin issues last season. Then throw in Dyami Brown, who likely takes a step forward after his rook season. 

 

And they have a good young RB already, who broke the 1000 yard mark last season. If he's healthy, they'll be decent. He's a good pass catcher too. They actually have two RBs that catch really well (like us). 

 

In short, the total O around him is probably better than the O around him last season. The only clear difference is JT vs Gibson, which obviously JT wins. But if their OL improves like folks think, Gibson could take a step forward too. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Really the topic of this thread is: "Wentz was good v. Jax in Week 18". He wasn't good, define good? He wasn't anywhere close to being good. Was he the only reason why we lost, no, but he was bad like the rest of the team  

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

WA's OL should be much better this season. Added Leno at LT. Cosmi at RT. And have a stud C. So long as Leno plays up to his ceiling, Wentz will likely be much better protected than Indy last season. 

 

And he'll have a better WR unit than he had in Indy. McLaurin, who is obviously good and has a high ceiling. Dotson, their first round draft pick should be a stud. And Samuel was a rising talent until he ran into groin issues last season. Then throw in Dyami Brown, who likely takes a step forward after his rook season. 

 

And they have a good young RB already, who broke the 1000 yard mark last season. If he's healthy, they'll be decent. He's a good pass catcher too. They actually have two RBs that catch really well (like us). 

 

In short, the total O around him is probably better than the O around him last season. The only clear difference is JT vs Gibson, which obviously JT wins. But if their OL improves like folks think, Gibson could take a step forward too. 

I could see Wash being pretty good with Wentz.  That doesn’t mean I think he was right for our O, I don’t think he was, but his big arm could play well there with adequate pass pro.
 

 

[Nickster]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Really the topic of this thread is: "Wentz was good v. Jax in Week 18". He wasn't good, define good? He wasn't anywhere close to being good. Was he the only reason why we lost, no, but he was bad like the rest of the team  

Good enough if others had played better maybe?  Maybe not that bad?  The INT was a terrible play, but guys do that from time to time.

 

The real point of my post is he was given way to much responsibility for the Buckner description of what happened IN THAT PARTICULAR GAME.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Nickster said:

I could see Wash being pretty good with Wentz.  That doesn’t mean I think he was right for our O, I don’t think he was, but his big arm could play well there with adequate pass pro.
 

 

I have Washington going 9-8. Wentz has some weapons there and I like their coach. 9-8 though which won't cut it with Dallas and Philly in that division. Wentz is above average, he doesn't suck, but we needed to move on because above average doesn't win SB's. Matt Ryan will be good, book it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I can see the NFC East looking like this:

 

1. Dallas 10-7

2. Philly 10-7

3. Washington 9-8

4. Giants 5-12  

[2006Coltsbestever]

I had Philly as an 9-8 team at one time but adding AJ Brown was huge.

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

East I don’t think I’ve really seen your clear thoughts on Ryan.  What do you think?

Aside from the obvious short term aspects, I totally love Ryan. We were blessed by great luck and timing. 

I just hope he's allowed to himself, instead of being forced to fit the conservative brand of football we've seen for the last several years. 

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

We are in such flux on the line it’s hard to be definitive.  I know you’ve said you are not too concerned with LT but I am.  Prior may be OK and to me that’s all he’s got to be, but the staff is saying it’s an open competition.  To me a 3rd round Teutonic LT to start the season seems unlikely to be adequate.  I like central European as a project, but would be very surprised if he’s ready to play right now.  So if it’s not just coach speak it seems less than confident about Prior.  If we have a swinging gate at Lt it’s going to be a rough season.

It can't be worse than Fisher.

And I can only rely on the the film and grades I've seen. And both give me a level confidence on both MP and BR. 

Until we see it on the field, it's just not worth fretting over. 

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

you also rate our pass catchers way better than I do.

I think Pittman is one of the best Xs in the league. I prefer an X to be a #2 type, but it is what it is for the moment.

We've got to find a compliment at Z and/or slot. 

If PC stays healthy, we're good IMO. If not, it's a dice roll. 

 

But I also believe we've been incredibly conservative developing WRs, and have put way too much stock on blocking when awarding snaps (Pascal for instance). And how many times did we actually allow Dulin to run an actual early read route... Not much. He was doing dirty work (rubs, clear outs) it seemed most of the year. 

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

So it’s hard to rate Ryan with these variables, but this is the way I see it.   I’d be really surprised if Ryan is as good running our O than Rivers.  From what everyone complains about as far as Wentz shortcomings, those were PRs strengths.  That being said I thought he did a great job with what we had and really wanted him back.  I am not sure if the line will be as good for Ryan as it was for Rivers when AC was healthy, but our D should be some and maybe significantly better.

Rivers was handcuffed a bit too, but he was simply very good at playing short ball. Ryan isn't as good playing short ball, but he's more well rounded than Rivers, and has the better total arm at comparable stages in their career. Like I said, I hope they don't handcuff Ryan to short ball O. He's most effective when he can attack all three levels. 

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

so how do you rate Ryan coming in?  Compared to CW?  Compared to Ryan?  How likely do you think our O is much better with Ryan as it was last year?

 

 

If we stick with the same scheme and tendencies, I think our O will be simply limited and overly conservative. But that's not on Ryan. If he's allowed to be himself, I think we could be a top 10 passing O, while still being a top 10 rushing O. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

@EastStreet, I think the way Frank Reich has been speaking about Matt that he is an awe of him in some ways. I can see Matt having more control of the offense than even Rivers had. Matt will be able to be himself way more than Wentz could because of his leadership and reputation/resume. I can picture Matt changing a lot of plays at the line and Frank not saying squat  

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I could see Wash being pretty good with Wentz.  That doesn’t mean I think he was right for our O, I don’t think he was, but his big arm could play well there with adequate pass pro.

 

Not a lot of QBs IMO are right for our O, or at least the O we've seen since Luck retired. 

That's why I'm hoping we modify things to suit Ryan. 

 

IMO, if Wentz has a good OL that keeps him from getting beat up all season, he'll have a pretty decent season. It'll be interesting to follow that's for sure. Sure would be embarrassing if he looks good though lol. 

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@EastStreet, I think the way Frank Reich has been speaking about Matt that he is an awe of him in some ways. I can see Matt having more control of the offense than even Rivers had. Matt will be able to be himself way more than Wentz could because of his leadership and reputation/resume. I can picture Matt changing a lot of plays at the line and Frank not saying squat  

 

I personally hope becomes more or less the de facto OC.... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I personally hope becomes more or less the de facto OC.... 

Matt was doing that in Atlanta a lot which is why I was surprised they blew that lead in the SB. I figured Matt would just run it 3 times at the end, Quinn wanted to pass and Matt with it. That was years ago and if a situation like that happens again in a big game, I would bet the farm he gives the ball to Taylor 3 straight times.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Matt was doing that in Atlanta a lot which is why I was surprised they blew that lead in the SB. I figured Matt would just run it 3 times at the end, Quinn wanted to pass and Matt with it. That was years ago and if a situation like that happens again in a big game, I would bet the farm he gives the ball to Taylor 3 straight times.

Most live and learn. I'm confident in Matt's learning over the years, and he obviously has the ability to read Ds at a high level. Perhaps not to the level of Rivers (who is one of the best), but he's not far off. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Most live and learn. I'm confident in Matt's learning over the years, and he obviously has the ability to read Ds at a high level. Perhaps not to the level of Rivers (who is one of the best), but he's not far off. 

Yeah is on par with Rivers but Rivers was one of the best. Peyton was the king 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah is on par with Rivers but Rivers was one of the best. Peyton was the king 

 

Both Manning and Rivers were film junkies. Ryan is not stranger to putting in the time either. It's why all three are highly regarded in terms of prep and ability to read. 

 

And it's why AZ put in a clause in their latest QB contract. 

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I personally hope becomes more or less the de facto OC.... 

If you're speaking about during the game, so do I, but that's because I always think the QB should have that role.  He's the guy most closest to the field as the defense is lining up.  The Sean McVay's that can manipulate an offense from the sidelines is pretty rare.

 

IMO, if the team can't rely on the QB to (substantially) direct the offense during a game and must rely upon the sidelines for that, I think a team is lacking something at QB.  I think the sideline OC should be there to provide observations, suggestions, and guidance more than commands.

 

I think Ryan, Rivers, and obviously Manning had these qualities.  Luck probably did but I don't think he had the personality that wanted to step up and take charge.  JB was not that guy.

[PRnum1]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@EastStreet, I think the way Frank Reich has been speaking about Matt that he is an awe of him in some ways. I can see Matt having more control of the offense than even Rivers had. Matt will be able to be himself way more than Wentz could because of his leadership and reputation/resume. I can picture Matt changing a lot of plays at the line and Frank not saying squat  

I remember there was a little bit of friction between Rivers and Frank when Rivers was here.

 

The story leaked that Frank was unhappy that Rivers was audibling or changing the plays too much.  But like you said, Rivers took control.

 

I like Franks offense in structure.  Its a short passing QB friendly offense.

 

However Frank is a horrible play caller if that makes sense.

 

I think that was a lot of the difference between Rivers and Wentz.  Rivers mastered the offense and even with his limitations  got us into a better play than what Frank had called.

 

Wentz perhaps not knowing the offense as well, ran whatever Frank called which led to a lot of problems.

 

It will be interesting to see how much audibling Ryan does.  I would keep an eye on that as the season progresses

[2006Coltsbestever]

24 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I remember there was a little bit of friction between Rivers and Frank when Rivers was here.

 

The story leaked that Frank was unhappy that Rivers was audibling or changing the plays too much.  But like you said, Rivers took control.

 

I like Franks offense in structure.  Its a short passing QB friendly offense.

 

However Frank is a horrible play caller if that makes sense.

 

I think that was a lot of the difference between Rivers and Wentz.  Rivers mastered the offense and even with his limitations  got us into a better play than what Frank had called.

 

Wentz perhaps not knowing the offense as well, ran whatever Frank called which led to a lot of problems.

 

It will be interesting to see how much audibling Ryan does.  I would keep an eye on that as the season progresses

Our offense was perfect for Rivers. He had a good season. I think had we got 35 years old Rivers with 3 or 4 years left, he may have got that ring. I was so happy we signed him when it happened, some actually were not, calling him noodle arm, over the hill, Etc.. I knew once we signed Rivers we would be a playoff team. Just like we will be with Ryan.

[EastStreet]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If you're speaking about during the game, so do I, but that's because I always think the QB should have that role.  He's the guy most closest to the field as the defense is lining up.  The Sean McVay's that can manipulate an offense from the sidelines is pretty rare.

 

IMO, if the team can't rely on the QB to (substantially) direct the offense during a game and must rely upon the sidelines for that, I think a team is lacking something at QB.  I think the sideline OC should be there to provide observations, suggestions, and guidance more than commands.

 

I think Ryan, Rivers, and obviously Manning had these qualities.  Luck probably did but I don't think he had the personality that wanted to step up and take charge.  JB was not that guy.

 

Yup. Ryan is capable of that.

 

Some teams with young, or with bad QBs, need the heavy hand. Ryan is not that type. 

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I remember there was a little bit of friction between Rivers and Frank when Rivers was here.

 

The story leaked that Frank was unhappy that Rivers was audibling or changing the plays too much.  But like you said, Rivers took control.

 

I like Franks offense in structure.  Its a short passing QB friendly offense.

 

However Frank is a horrible play caller if that makes sense.

 

I think that was a lot of the difference between Rivers and Wentz.  Rivers mastered the offense and even with his limitations  got us into a better play than what Frank had called.

 

Wentz perhaps not knowing the offense as well, ran whatever Frank called which led to a lot of problems.

 

It will be interesting to see how much audibling Ryan does.  I would keep an eye on that as the season progresses

Yup, there was friction between Rivers and Frank. You don't have to go too far out on a limb to say Rivers was handcuffed a lot. Most folks ignored the news when it happened lol. And there have been some very illogical game plans over the years by Frank, regardless of QB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, there was friction between Rivers and Frank. You don't have to go too far out on a limb to say Rivers was handcuffed a lot. Most folks ignored the news when it happened lol. And there have been some very illogical game plans over the years by Frank, regardless of QB. 

Matt Ryan knows this is his last shot at a ring, these next 2 or 3 years. I think he won't mess around and take over many times. The difference between being a top 21-25 QB of all-time and a top 11-20 QB for many QB's is that ring. Eventhough it is a team game, it is unfortunate a lot of close rankings come down to who has more rings. Ryan wins  a SB he is in the top 20 IMO because he also has the stats and that MVP.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can see the NFC East looking like this:

 

1. Dallas 10-7

2. Philly 10-7

3. Washington 9-8

4. Giants 5-12  

I saw some reports that NYG is expected to be decent.  I am not sure why, but it is out there. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Nickster said:

I saw some reports that NYG is expected to be decent.  I am not sure why, but it is out there. 

Barkley is healthy but man their QB is suspect along with their D  . 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@EastStreet, I think the way Frank Reich has been speaking about Matt that he is an awe of him in some ways. I can see Matt having more control of the offense than even Rivers had. Matt will be able to be himself way more than Wentz could because of his leadership and reputation/resume. I can picture Matt changing a lot of plays at the line and Frank not saying squat  

Coach speak bro.  Reich was IN LOVE with Wentz. . . till he wasn't.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah is on par with Rivers but Rivers was one of the best. Peyton was the king 

 

Rivers was Peyton without as good of an arm, but much better in the short game.   PR was as good as Manning at reading IMO.  I mean that is not really easy to judge, but Rivers was great pre snap and progression wise. 

[ProblChld32]

On 7/25/2022 at 4:20 PM, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

You’re calling him a top 10 QB based off of one game? He was very inconsistent the entire season lol he was in no shape or form a top 10 QB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Coach speak bro.  Reich was IN LOVE with Wentz. . . till he wasn't.

True but Frank learned the hard way. Matt is a totally different personality compared to Wentz. I see Matt being from the same gene as a Rivers or Peyton as in they will change the play at the line and it will be best for the team. Wentz had a lot of hero ball in him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Rivers was Peyton without as good of an arm, but much better in the short game.   PR was as good as Manning at reading IMO.  I mean that is not really easy to judge, but Rivers was great pre snap and progression wise. 

Yeah it was a treat having Rivers here. I enjoyed 2020 very much. My favorite QB's are QB's that can read defenses and change into the right play to keep the chains moving.

[Nickster]

56 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I remember there was a little bit of friction between Rivers and Frank when Rivers was here.

 

The story leaked that Frank was unhappy that Rivers was audibling or changing the plays too much.  But like you said, Rivers took control.

 

I like Franks offense in structure.  Its a short passing QB friendly offense.

 

However Frank is a horrible play caller if that makes sense.

 

I think that was a lot of the difference between Rivers and Wentz.  Rivers mastered the offense and even with his limitations  got us into a better play than what Frank had called.

 

Wentz perhaps not knowing the offense as well, ran whatever Frank called which led to a lot of problems.

 

It will be interesting to see how much audibling Ryan does.  I would keep an eye on that as the season progresses

The way I remember it with Wentz is that he was directly criticized for not running the called running plays.   It  was part of the ole RTDB thing with the guy in the hat.  Here's an article discussing that.  https://horseshoeheroes.com/2021/11/04/colts-carson-wentz-actually-one-taking-ball-away-jonathan-taylor/

 

Looking at the last two games it appeared that Wentz audibled a decent amount (there are fake audibles so you don't know for sure) and it looked like he would change to run more often then vice versa.