Wentz Was Good v. Jax in Week 18

[Superman]

16 hours ago, Nickster said:

The INT is on Pittman. Great read. It was 3rd and 20 and it wasn’t perfect but Pittman stumbles under the ball. You have to catch that ball good enough throw.

 

I watched Warner’s film and 3 out of the 6 or 7 plays there is a free runner in the pass rush.  Then the throw to Pittman has to be caught.  I wish there was a film breakdown that focused int the oline.  They were dismal.  Carson was not the issue that game.

 

The play you're thinking of wasn't an interception, the ball came out as the defender went to the ground.

 

Here's the INT, and it's entirely on Wentz. First and 10, checkdown option available, and he throws to a covered receiver, late, after a pump fake, allowing the underneath defender to get in the passing lane and take the ball away. By the way, he's not under pressure.

 

The overthrow on 3rd and 19, where you're blaming Pittman? Where did he stumble? The ball was late, behind him, and too high. He had time to throw. His footwork and mechanics are all over the place. (It's the 2nd play in this clip. Maybe you're talking about a different play?)

 

The OL got whipped from the opening drive. Awful game for them. The receivers weren't any good. The coaching and play calling sucked. The defense never got off the bus. Terrible game all around. 

 

A lot of people laid this failure entirely at Wentz's feet, which was bogus. No unit played winning football that day. And the common perception of that failure became a microcosm of the season in a lot of ways. It's to the point where people seem to think that simply swapping Wentz for Ryan solves all of this team's problems, and now it's a given that we're going deep in the playoffs. In that sense, I agree that Wentz has been scapegoated by a lot of people.

 

But in no way did he play good against the Jags. He was just as bad as everyone else. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The play you're thinking of wasn't an interception, the ball came out as the defender went to the ground.

 

Here's the INT, and it's entirely on Wentz. First and 10, checkdown option available, and he throws to a covered receiver, late, after a pump fake, allowing the underneath defender to get in the passing lane and take the ball away. By the way, he's not under pressure.

 

The overthrow on 3rd and 19, where you're blaming Pittman? Where did he stumble? The ball was late, behind him, and too high. He had time to throw. His footwork and mechanics are all over the place. (It's the 2nd play in this clip. Maybe you're talking about a different play?)

 

The OL got whipped from the opening drive. Awful game for them. The receivers weren't any good. The coaching and play calling sucked. The defense never got off the bus. Terrible game all around. 

 

A lot of people laid this failure entirely at Wentz's feet, which was bogus. No unit played winning football that day. And the common perception of that failure became a microcosm of the season in a lot of ways. It's to the point where people seem to think that simply swapping Wentz for Ryan solves all of this team's problems, and now it's a given that we're going deep in the playoffs. In that sense, I agree that Wentz has been scapegoated by a lot of people.

 

But in no way did he play good against the Jags. He was just as bad as everyone else. 

On that INT in your first video, he had Taylor wide open running out of the back field  . A blind man could even see that.

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Wentz didn’t play defense.  He also didn’t set up a scheme to give their receivers 14 yard cushions on 3rd and 10.  
 

Plenty of blame on both sides of the ball and from the sidelines.  
 

I’ll give @Nickster credit though.  Not only couldn’t I watch that Hindenburg again, I couldn’t even watch Hard Knocks.   
 

Worst. Colts. Loss. Ever.  

Yeah My kid and I had been talking about how good we thought the team would be this year.  I said I wasn't super optimistic about Ryan and that I didn't think CW was as bad as the rap he got.  and that the way I remember it the OLine was the main issue v. Jags.

 

We ended up watching 7.5 hrs. of film lol.   We had each other for a sort of support group lol.  He did some dumb stuff, but his situation was far from ideal and given everything I think he was pretty good.  Not good enough.  Probably not going to develop at his age on his deficiencies, but I don't think any QB ever would have had a good game.  The easiest thing to do is blame the QB.  Since you are getting rid of him any way which appears to be the consensus, it's even easier.

 

I hope we are much better, but I am not terribly optimistic about Ryan.  Tepidly, but I just don't see that we are set up to be a top contender in the AFC.

 

 

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

YOU used the term "free runner" in the post I responded to, which is why I said it is Carsons job to know he is coming. I wasnt sure which play you were talking about.

 

I think its fairly obvious last year that Carson was very inconsistent. So when you say "he played well" that isnt entirely accurate. He did, at times, and there were times he was god awful. 

 

I think the Colts hope is that Matt Ryan will be more consistent and play smarter football. That should allow the Colts offense to put up more points as well as keep the defense fresh and off the field. I think they also believe he will avoid the game losing mistakes Carson made against teams like the Rams and Titans.

 

The Colts dont look at the stat sheet at the end if the season to determine whether his play was good enough or not. They watch the film and decide that. Obviously they didnt like what they seen and felt his stats shouldve been much better.

 

 

 

Oh I don't disagree with any of this.  I AM NOT NOT NOT A FAN OF CW.  He wasn't going to improve this team much, but I think his lack of personality/leadership had more to do with his firing than his play on the field.  The team did not at all rally around him when he was getting the bad press before he was traded.  That was kind of a shock to me.  

 

Watching the dude he had so many dumb looking plays.  The screen pump fake v. TN is literally one of the worst plays I have every seen a pro QB make.  There is no other option on a busted screen.  At all levels of FB you throw the ball at the receivers feet. Period.  I coached.  My son was saying that his coaches would have lost their minds if our HS QB would have done what Carson did.  It's a no read freaking play.  If you see someone next to the ball carrier you throw it to his feet, there is no other option with linemen down field. 

 

But when we rewatched the JAGS game, he got no help from anyone and was as good as any offensive player that game.  WHich isn't saying much lol.

[lollygagger8]

20 hours ago, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

 

Carson, is that you? 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of blame should go around but Wentz played badly so no sugarcoating it. My point is, had we had a halfway good QB we don't lose. Matt Ryan probably wins that game. The D played badly but still only gave up 26 points and we gave them good field position twice because of turnovers, it is not like we gave up 40 points. Our offense put 0 pressure on them to have to even score so they played loose the whole 2nd half. We scored 11 points, that will not win you any games.

I would say running Taylor only 15 times is also on the head coach who is also calling the plays.  Sure Wentz can audible but if after 16 games Reich cannot reign him in, it is on the head coach.  

 

[Nickster]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The play you're thinking of wasn't an interception, the ball came out as the defender went to the ground.

 

Here's the INT, and it's entirely on Wentz. First and 10, checkdown option available, and he throws to a covered receiver, late, after a pump fake, allowing the underneath defender to get in the passing lane and take the ball away. By the way, he's not under pressure.

 

The overthrow on 3rd and 19, where you're blaming Pittman? Where did he stumble? The ball was late, behind him, and too high. He had time to throw. His footwork and mechanics are all over the place. (It's the 2nd play in this clip. Maybe you're talking about a different play?)

 

Yeah that's a terrible play.

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That ball on the 3rd and 19 has to be caught IMO. Slightly high and behind.  From the end zone cut up you see Pittman failing to adjust at all.  That is not a super hard catch for a good NFL receiver. 

 

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

The OL got whipped from the opening drive. Awful game for them. The receivers weren't any good. The coaching and play calling sucked. The defense never got off the bus. Terrible game all around. 

 

A lot of people laid this failure entirely at Wentz's feet, which was bogus. No unit played winning football that day. And the common perception of that failure became a microcosm of the season in a lot of ways. It's to the point where people seem to think that simply swapping Wentz for Ryan solves all of this team's problems, and now it's a given that we're going deep in the playoffs. In that sense, I agree that Wentz has been scapegoated by a lot of people.

Yep

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

But in no way did he play good against the Jags. He was just as bad as everyone else. 

I just think given the situation he wasn't that bad.  That would probably be a better title for the thread, but I'm a little "trigger happy" at times. I come on here to have fun lol. 

 

[Myles]

Double post

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Double post

 

That was a 4-peat by you 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would say running Taylor only 15 times is also on the head coach who is also calling the plays.  Sure Wentz can audible but if after 16 games Reich cannot reign him in, it is on the head coach.  

 

I'm surprised JT even got 15 carries. We had so many off schedule drives early in the game -- 3 and out, early down sack, early down penalty, etc. -- we were in passing situations more often than not. And we were down three scores by the end of the third quarter. Dominated in time of possession, two turnovers, three failed 4th downs, and couldn't get a defensive stop on third down. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm surprised JT even got 15 carries. We had so many off schedule drives early in the game -- 3 and out, early down sack, early down penalty, etc. -- we were in passing situations more often than not. And we were down three scores by the end of the third quarter. Dominated in time of possession, two turnovers, three failed 4th downs, and couldn't get a defensive stop on third down. 

Jacks basically dared Wentz to beat them, stacked the box big time for JT. Once they got a 2 score lead we were screwed because Wentz didn't have that day.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

That ball on the 3rd and 19 has to be caught IMO. Slightly high and behind.  From the end zone cut up you see Pittman failing to adjust at all.  That is not a super hard catch for a good NFL receiver. 

 

To me, Wentz was late on the throw because his lower body mechanics were terrible. Then he fired a bullet to the second level, off target, to a receiver moving across the field. There's very little time for the receiver to make what would be a tough adjustment; and Pittman tries to grab it, but it's coming too fast, and it's too off target. You might want Pittman to make a better play to bail him out, but that's a bad throw.

 

It's third and 19, so there are only two reads on this play, IMO. The defense is showing cloud coverage over the WR at the top of the screen, so you know presnap there's no deep shot available. The inside receiver is clearing out. Now Pittman is the only option to get to a first down. If he's not open you have to check down and live to fight another day. Wentz should be getting his body lined up to throw the deep in, but his head doesn't even come back to the right until he's throwing. He's all over the place, drifting in the pocket, bouncing up and down, because he apparently didn't have a plan before the ball is snapped. And it led to a bad throw.

 

I see that play very differently from you. But that's just one. There are three other examples in that short clip that show Wentz missing throws to open receivers.

 

Quote

I just think given the situation he wasn't that bad.  That would probably be a better title for the thread, but I'm a little "trigger happy" at times. I come on here to have fun lol. 

 

That's fair. I think he was pretty bad... but that would be a better opening than insisting that he was "good" in that game. The only thing that was good about the Colts that day was the uniforms.

[Two_pound]

I liked Wentz when we traded for him, but honestly, he was down right awful in the last 4 games. For whatever reason(s) I'll never know. New season, new quarterback again, go Colts! Ryan can win a lot of games with this loaded roster.

[OffensivelyPC]

He wasn't the sole reason we lost, but he was the biggest reason for it.  The interception was just - bad read, he had other options, and he stared at his receiver.  The play where he missed TY when he was wide open.  Then the play I think it was the last drive, but where he threw it into triple coverage or something when he had Taylor wide open 10 yards down field.  He may not have gotten the first, but it was clearly better htan what happened.  

 

I may be mixing up some of the plays.  I just very clearly remember blaming Wentz for missing the playoffs and thinking that he's just not the QB for the future.  And all the stuff that's come out since that loss I think bears out the fact that yes, Wentz is to blame for the loss.  I mean Irsay called a meeting that evening where he took Ballard and Reich to the watershed.  The locker room moral just plummeted because they all knew that epic collapse was historical.  When people joke or talk about about missing the playoffs to their rival fans or on talk radio, they'll reference the 2021 Colts for comparison.  And when games are often summarized by 4 or 5 key moment plays, Wentz will own the bulk of those in Week 18 loss to Jax.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would say running Taylor only 15 times is also on the head coach who is also calling the plays.  Sure Wentz can audible but if after 16 games Reich cannot reign him in, it is on the head coach.  

I would say running Taylor only 15 times is also on the head coach who is also calling the plays.  Sure Wentz can audible but if after 16 games Reich cannot reign him in, it is on the head coach.  

 

 

This is what we gained on our 1st 8 JT  runs  8, 1, 1, 2, 3, 0, 5, -2

 

We had 2 for 13 yds.  Ok fine.  8 on the 1st run, 5 on a 4th down run.  On the other 6 plays we gained 5 yds.

 

So you think we should have run MORE in the 1st half?  Really?  Why?  It wasn't working.

 

You can't run when you can't run man.  Those are drive killers and set a team up for turnovers in 3rd and long situations when you run that ineffectively.  The line was getting whipped and couldn't get Taylor to the 2nd level. We tried to run, we just couldn't. 

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

I am  sure bout your evaluation, but I will trust your eyes. My only issue for the,Wentz blame was that the whole team crapped the bed the last 2 weeks. The most concerning part is that it was our supposed character, high  salary players that didn't show. Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Moore,Buckner and Leonard. Ballard values character over everything and it was absent the last 2 games as was their physical play. Not acceptable.

[Nickster]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Jacks basically dared Wentz to beat them, stacked the box big time for JT. Once they got a 2 score lead we were screwed because Wentz didn't have that day.

 The boxes weren't stacked as often as you think. The front 4 dominated our line.  Teams didn't stack all that often as you'd think v. Taylor.   The played a lot of 2 deep coverage and rarely but effectively blitzed.  That is jus tnot accurate Bestie if you watch the film.

[Smonroe]

@Nickster I get your point and agree that Wentz wasn't any worse than anyone else in that game.

 

What I don't like is that you're making me admit that game happened.  I almost had it erased from the memory banks.  It was in the trash bucket, ready to be flushed.

 

 

[Nickster]

54 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To me, Wentz was late on the throw because his lower body mechanics were terrible. Then he fired a bullet to the second level, off target, to a receiver moving across the field. There's very little time for the receiver to make what would be a tough adjustment; and Pittman tries to grab it, but it's coming too fast, and it's too off target. You might want Pittman to make a better play to bail him out, but that's a bad throw.

 

It's third and 19, so there are only two reads on this play, IMO. The defense is showing cloud coverage over the WR at the top of the screen, so you know presnap there's no deep shot available. The inside receiver is clearing out. Now Pittman is the only option to get to a first down. If he's not open you have to check down and live to fight another day. Wentz should be getting his body lined up to throw the deep in, but his head doesn't even come back to the right until he's throwing. He's all over the place, drifting in the pocket, bouncing up and down, because he apparently didn't have a plan before the ball is snapped. And it led to a bad throw.

 

I see that play very differently from you. But that's just one. There are three other examples in that short clip that show Wentz missing throws to open receivers.

 

 

That's fair. I think he was pretty bad... but that would be a better opening than insisting that he was "good" in that game. The only thing that was good about the Colts that day was the uniforms.

You need to have your number 1 receiver catch that ball.  Pitman isn't even 4 inhes in the air. It's just barely on his back shoulder 25 yds from Wentz with plenty of time for a guy to make that play.  No NFL QB throws perfectly all the time. 

I agree about the footwork though.  But my son is a Pack fan and AR does it all the time.  to expect that throw to have to be absolutely perfect for our team to be successful is well not going to work IMO.  

Surprised he was that open really.  If we are relying on Ryan to be perfect then we are in big trouble is all I'm saying. 

[Nickster]

28 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He wasn't the sole reason we lost, but he was the biggest reason for it.  The interception was just - bad read, he had other options, and he stared at his receiver.  The play where he missed TY when he was wide open.  Then the play I think it was the last drive, but where he threw it into triple coverage or something when he had Taylor wide open 10 yards down field.  He may not have gotten the first, but it was clearly better htan what happened.  

 

I may be mixing up some of the plays.  I just very clearly remember blaming Wentz for missing the playoffs and thinking that he's just not the QB for the future.  And all the stuff that's come out since that loss I think bears out the fact that yes, Wentz is to blame for the loss.  I mean Irsay called a meeting that evening where he took Ballard and Reich to the watershed.  The locker room moral just plummeted because they all knew that epic collapse was historical.  When people joke or talk about about missing the playoffs to their rival fans or on talk radio, they'll reference the 2021 Colts for comparison.  And when games are often summarized by 4 or 5 key moment plays, Wentz will own the bulk of those in Week 18 loss to Jax.

The TY play was a really really bad over throw. lol.

 

I think personally Irsay is a big part of the the issue for insisting on trying to "stay competitive" while retreading and going through vet QBs.  I've always wondered if Rivers wasn't enthusiastically asked back.  I remember some grumblings when he retired.  I was looking forward to running it back with him.  He's the type of QB that we say we want.  I think it's possible Irsay made it clear that they wanted to move on.  JUST CONJECTURE admittedly, but it was somewhat surprising to me that PR retired after the playoffs and good game v. BUFF.

 

GOAT to backs and short passes IMO, quick reads, great presnap, then there was this clamor for downfield arm.

 

Ryan isn't a quick read guy.  Not saying he can't do it, but I am saying he hasn't for the most of his career.  For a pocket passer he has some of the lowest TTT.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Oh I don't disagree with any of this.  I AM NOT NOT NOT A FAN OF CW.  He wasn't going to improve this team much, but I think his lack of personality/leadership had more to do with his firing than his play on the field.  The team did not at all rally around him when he was getting the bad press before he was traded.  That was kind of a shock to me.  

 

Watching the dude he had so many dumb looking plays.  The screen pump fake v. TN is literally one of the worst plays I have every seen a pro QB make.  There is no other option on a busted screen.  At all levels of FB you throw the ball at the receivers feet. Period.  I coached.  My son was saying that his coaches would have lost their minds if our HS QB would have done what Carson did.  It's a no read freaking play.  If you see someone next to the ball carrier you throw it to his feet, there is no other option with linemen down field. 

 

But when we rewatched the JAGS game, he got no help from anyone and was as good as any offensive player that game.  WHich isn't saying much lol.

I am not putting that entire game on him, but I wonder how much if it was him getting confused pre snap. I have no way of knowing this for certain, but I think he definitely struggles to make pre snap reads just based off having watched him play for an entire season. 

 

I was actually a supporter of bringing Wentz back for some of the reasons youve listed. I thought he had a nice bounce back season and hoped another off season and a full training camp would help him improve even more.

 

But the Colts actions told me either there were some major locker room issues behind the scenes or he was struggling much more than we knew.

 

 

[Nickster]

38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am  sure bout your evaluation, but I will trust your eyes. My only issue for the,Wentz blame was that the whole team crapped the bed the last 2 weeks. The most concerning part is that it was our supposed character, high  salary players that didn't show. Nelson, Kelly, Smith, Moore,Buckner and Leonard. Ballard values character over everything and it was absent the last 2 games as was their physical play. Not acceptable.

Good is a strong description.  But he wasn't that bad.  Not as bad as most of the other players IMO anyway.  That was a terrible read and throw on the INT, but that happens for all QBs from time to time.  He only had 7 INT the entire year.  He was not a TO machine. 

 

I've said many times, my hope is Ryan will get that PA game from under center.  It's the only way I see us getting to the playoffs through our schedule this year.  Our pass catchers aren't good enough IMO.

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, Nickster said:

You need to have your number 1 receiver catch that ball.  Pitman isn't even 4 inhes in the air. It's just barely on his back shoulder 25 yds from Wentz with plenty of time for a guy to make that play.  No NFL QB throws perfectly all the time. 

I agree about the footwork though.  But my son is a Pack fan and he does it all the time.  to expect that throw to have to be absolutely perfect for our team to be successful is well not going to work IMO.  

Surprised he was that open really.  If we are relying on Ryan to be perfect then we are in big trouble is all I'm saying. 

 

The throw was inaccurate, though, right? And what about the other inaccurate throws in that clip?

 

Wentz is not Aaron Rodgers. One of the things that makes Rodgers special is his ability to consistently make plays despite imperfect situations. Wentz does not have that consistent ability.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

I am not putting that entire game on him, but I wonder how much if it was him getting confused pre snap. I have no way of knowing this for certain, but I think he definitely struggles to make pre snap reads just based off having watched him play for an entire season. 

 

I was actually a supporter of bringing Wentz back for some of the reasons youve listed. I thought he had a nice bounce back season and hoped another off season and a full training camp would help him improve even more.

 

But the Colts actions told me either there were some major locker room issues behind the scenes or he was struggling much more than we knew.

 

 

Definitely a flawed QB but better than average.  There aren't very many really good QBs.

 

I am dubious of us being a ball control team with a great D.  To me we aren't talented enough in key areas to compete seriously with that formula.  The D must have a top 1 or 2 Dline IMO to even consider having that kind of D. They have certainly paid enough capital for it to be like that, but if not.  Our coverage LBs and secondary will get exposed unless there is something I am not seeing.  Cover 3 used to be known as the HS defense that gets you fired. lol.

 

And another thing about ball control is that JT is not that kind of player.  He's a chunk player more than a chain mover.  He's more a passing game.  It's not 3 yds and a cloud of dust clock moving. 

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He wasn't the sole reason we lost, but he was the biggest reason for it.  The interception was just - bad read, he had other options, and he stared at his receiver.  The play where he missed TY when he was wide open.  Then the play I think it was the last drive, but where he threw it into triple coverage or something when he had Taylor wide open 10 yards down field.  He may not have gotten the first, but it was clearly better htan what happened.  

 

I may be mixing up some of the plays.  I just very clearly remember blaming Wentz for missing the playoffs and thinking that he's just not the QB for the future.  And all the stuff that's come out since that loss I think bears out the fact that yes, Wentz is to blame for the loss.  I mean Irsay called a meeting that evening where he took Ballard and Reich to the watershed.  The locker room moral just plummeted because they all knew that epic collapse was historical.  When people joke or talk about about missing the playoffs to their rival fans or on talk radio, they'll reference the 2021 Colts for comparison.  And when games are often summarized by 4 or 5 key moment plays, Wentz will own the bulk of those in Week 18 loss to Jax.

 

I think you're combining multiple games. The TY miss was against the Raiders (killer miss on third down, absolutely cannot miss that throw). The JT overlook was against the Titans (I guess it happened more than once, but the one that stands out to me was the game ending pick in OT). 

[Nickster]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The throw was inaccurate, though, right? And what about the other inaccurate throws in that clip?

 

Wentz is not Aaron Rodgers. One of the things that makes Rodgers special is his ability to consistently make plays despite imperfect situations. Wentz does not have that consistent ability.

Slightly inaccurate.  But good enough.

 

No he is no Rodgers.  When we went to GB, I was surprised about how many people were not as high on ARodge as you'd think.  

 

SIDENOTE: If you have never gone and have the means, you should go watch a game at Lambeau sometime.  

Awesome experience.  They all know each other.  They give you awesome food and drinks at the tailgates.  They have donation buckets, but will just allow you to grab food and beer whiskey.  You sit shoulder to shoulder on the benches and people are totally cool and generous and just friendly.  We couldn'f afford my wife's tickets and some old man saw her walking away from the stadium and gave her a ticket.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're combining multiple games. The TY miss was against the Raiders (killer miss on third down, absolutely cannot miss that throw). The JT overlook was against the Titans (I guess it happened more than once, but the one that stands out to me was the game ending pick in OT). 

That was in response to another poster talking about the last two games. 

The JT thing was pretty common so yeah probably. but we probably aren't in the TN game without Wentz's play early either.  The screen pass thing was literally the worst play I've ever seen from so many aspects.   It was unbelievable.

 

Again not advocating for CW, but I think he could possibly surprise some posters here with WASH.  If he plays, they will be better and Scary Terry is going to get a ton.  

[Superman]

Just now, Nickster said:

Slightly inaccurate.  

 

No he is no Rodgers.  When we went to GB, I was surprised about how many people were not as high on ARodge as you'd think.  

 

SIDENOTE: If you have never gone and have the means, you should go watch a game at Lambeau sometime.  

Awesome experience.  They all know each other.  They give you awesome food and drinks at the tailgates.  They have donation buckets, but will just allow you to grab food and beer whiskey.  You sit shoulder to shoulder on the benches and people are totally cool and generous and just friendly.  We couldn'f afford my wife's tickets and some old man saw her walking away from the stadium and gave her a ticket.

 

I have a friend who is a GB fan. He's from SoCal like me, but went to a playoff game at Lambeau and froze his butt off. He had a blast (but I think they lost). I've only been to a few stadiums, I want to get to LOS, maybe this year? Then maybe some of the more historic places, like Lambeau, Soldier Field (might be gone soon), etc. 

 

And yeah, Packers fans have always been divided on Rodgers. Many are Favre loyalists. Rodgers also has a peculiar way about him, where he's not all that endearing. Incredibly talented, to me one of the three most talented passers of all time -- with Mahomes and Marino. He's had some of the most efficient and dynamic QB play of all time (2011 and 2012 were outrageous). But if you take away his SB run, it's kind of been a disappointing career. Thankfully for him, he won a SB early and didn't have that pressure mounting on his shoulders year after year, so he kind of has a pass. But imagine if they didn't win in 2010, how differently he'd be viewed from a historical standpoint.

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I have a friend who is a GB fan. He's from SoCal like me, but went to a playoff game at Lambeau and froze his butt off. He had a blast (but I think they lost). I've only been to a few stadiums, I want to get to LOS, maybe this year? Then maybe some of the more historic places, like Lambeau, Soldier Field (might be gone soon), etc. 

 

And yeah, Packers fans have always been divided on Rodgers. Many are Favre loyalists. Rodgers also has a peculiar way about him, where he's not all that endearing. Incredibly talented, to me one of the three most talented passers of all time -- with Mahomes and Marino. He's had some of the most efficient and dynamic QB play of all time (2011 and 2012 were outrageous). But if you take away his SB run, it's kind of been a disappointing career. Thankfully for him, he won a SB early and didn't have that pressure mounting on his shoulders year after year, so he kind of has a pass. But imagine if they didn't win in 2010, how differently he'd be viewed from a historical standpoint.

Wow I didn't know you were Californian.  How are you a Colts' Fan?  

LOS is cool, beautiful.  But I liked the dome better even though it was uglier than sin. It was so loud in there though it was incredbible. 

We were lucky.  It was a balmy like 30 degrees when we went to Lambeau.

 

Rodgers is the best passer IMO ever.  Not necessarily winner.  I often thought his teams were undertalented overall though.  But even when they had like no receivers last year for isntance, he led them to wins. 

 

Had issues in the title game.  Manningish in that respect. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

That was in response to another poster talking about the last two games. 

The JT thing was pretty common so yeah probably. but we probably aren't in the TN game without Wentz's play early either.  The screen pass thing was literally the worst play I've ever seen from so many aspects.   It was unbelievable.

 

Again not advocating for CW, but I think he could possibly surprise some posters here with WASH.  If he plays, they will be better and Scary Terry is going to get a ton.  

 

To the bolded, it's such a drastic example, but it's a good place to start when we talk about why the team decided to move on. I think they felt they couldn't trust him to run a consistent offense, and his highs are not high enough and are too sporadic to balance out the lows. So they moved on without even having a good plan to replace him. 

 

But the other examples are more moderate. Like Wentz throwing to mostly covered WR, incomplete, or even a touch late or off target which hurts the chances of any YAC. And then you look at the coaches film and see he missed a better option. Or making bad reads on RPOs. Or running into pressure. 

 

He was not the only problem. And I don't think we have a stacked roster like so many others do, so replacing Wentz with Ryan doesn't solve all the other problems automatically. (I think Ryan is better for us right now, because I think he's more accurate and more predictable, so will contribute to stability and allow the players around him to grow and perform.) But despite all the fluff about Wentz's connection with Reich, they didn't appear to be on the same page on game days, Wentz doesn't seem like an effective leader (or even interested in being considered a leader), and the team that seemed like the best fit for him had enough after just one season. 

[csmopar]

22 hours ago, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

This might be the wildest notion I’ve ever seen on here, as well as the most daring. Wow

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Wow I didn't know you were Californian.  How are you a Colts' Fan?  

LOS is cool, beautiful.  But I liked the dome better even though it was uglier than sin. It was so loud in there though it was incredbible. 

We were lucky.  It was a balmy like 30 degrees when we went to Lambeau.

 

Rodgers is the best passer IMO ever.  Not necessarily winner.  I often thought his teams were undertalented overall though.  But even when they had like no receivers last year for isntance, he led them to wins. 

 

Had issues in the title game.  Manningish in that respect. 

 

We didn't have a team for 20 years. I liked the Manning/Woodson debate for Heisman, kind of got attached to Manning, the Colts had an exciting offense, and I latched on. A couple years later, they're forming a rivalry with the Pats, and it was fun. 

 

The bolded is kind of my point. Manning will always be compared with Brady, and his playoff record doesn't hold up to the comparison. But Manning was 4 for 5 in title games, went to four SBs in eight seasons (and missed a season in there), and after the AFCCG loss in 2003 a Manning-led team never lost another AFCCG. Rodger is 1 for 4 in title games, and hasn't won one since 2010, his only SB appearance. But in general, Rodgers got a pass most of his career, because he had early playoff success, whereas Manning was called a choker and criticized for not winning the big one. 

[Nickster]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, it's such a drastic example, but it's a good place to start when we talk about why the team decided to move on. I think they felt they couldn't trust him to run a consistent offense, and his highs are not high enough and are too sporadic to balance out the lows. So they moved on without even having a good plan to replace him. 

 

But the other examples are more moderate. Like Wentz throwing to mostly covered WR, incomplete, or even a touch late or off target which hurts the chances of any YAC. And then you look at the coaches film and see he missed a better option. Or making bad reads on RPOs. Or running into pressure. 

 

He was not the only problem. And I don't think we have a stacked roster like so many others do, so replacing Wentz with Ryan doesn't solve all the other problems automatically. (I think Ryan is better for us right now, because I think he's more accurate and more predictable, so will contribute to stability and allow the players around him to grow and perform.) But despite all the fluff about Wentz's connection with Reich, they didn't appear to be on the same page on game days, Wentz doesn't seem like an effective leader (or even interested in being considered a leader), and the team that seemed like the best fit for him had enough after just one season. 

The screen pass is as drastic as it gets.  It really is.  There are two options.  Throw in his chest if he's open.  Throw to his feet if he's covered.  From MS on up those have only been the two options.  

 

That's not a read.  It's almost like a moment of temporary insanity.  That's the way I'd desribe Went'z play on those occasions.  Temporarily insane. 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We didn't have a team for 20 years. I liked the Manning/Woodson debate for Heisman, kind of got attached to Manning, the Colts had an exciting offense, and I latched on. A couple years later, they're forming a rivalry with the Pats, and it was fun. 

 

The bolded is kind of my point. Manning will always be compared with Brady, and his playoff record doesn't hold up to the comparison. But Manning was 4 for 5 in title games, went to four SBs in eight seasons (and missed a season in there), and after the AFCCG loss in 2003 a Manning-led team never lost another AFCCG. Rodger is 1 for 4 in title games, and hasn't won one since 2010, his only SB appearance. But in general, Rodgers got a pass most of his career, because he had early playoff success, whereas Manning was called a choker and criticized for not winning the big one. 

 

I think rodgers did more with less.  I wasn't watching him that closely until last 3-4 years though.  Manning had supremely talented offences.  He just really didn't get it done in crunch time sometimes.  But Brady and Bill and the Steelers really had our number too. 

 

I figured you for a Carmel/Westfield type of Hoosier.  Hell, I doubt that you even know what that means now lol. 

[OffensivelyPC]

 

35 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're combining multiple games. The TY miss was against the Raiders (killer miss on third down, absolutely cannot miss that throw). The JT overlook was against the Titans (I guess it happened more than once, but the one that stands out to me was the game ending pick in OT). 

I thought I was mixing up things some, but I thought they all occurred in the same game.  But I think the overall point is still an agreeable one.  Not only was he not good against Jax, he wasn't a guy that could put the team on his shoulders. Almost all season.  But against Jax specificallly, we couldnt' get anything going on the ground.  I will give their front 4 on defense credit.  They give our line all it could handle and more.  So when we had to put the game in Carson's hands, he crumbled right before our eyes.  The Commanders must've slept through the entire last 2 weeks of the season and didn't bother to evaluate his game to see if it was a fit for their franchise.  Because I'm amazed we got anything at all for Carson.

[Korey]

22 hours ago, Nickster said:

My son and I went back and watched the cut ups. First time I could watch it. The line was godawful and the receivers weren’t good. He made some great plays that game if you watch it without emotion.

 

he made some really good throws.  He got scapegoated.  It doesn’t bother me he’s gone, but the level of his play was top 10 this year and there is no guarantee that Ryan will be better.

 

About the only thing to fault him for was the fumble but not it wasn’t a terrible play by Carson.

 

Carson is that you?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

[Superman]

8 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

I figured you for a Carmel/Westfield type of Hoosier.  Hell, I doubt that you even know what that means now lol. 

 

Not really, but I'll take umbrage just in case. 

[EastStreet]

You don't have to say he played good to say the entire team played like a steaming pile of doo doo.

 

The OL was completely horrible. Near 30% pressure rate. Is that Carson's fault?

We gave up 6 sacks lol... How intellectually unintelligent do you want to be to say they didn't next level suck?

 

And their O, which was horrible, had 300+ total against our D, and 100+ rushing... lol. We got 1 sack....... 

 

Go ahead, say the entire team didn't suck. Scapegoat all you want. 

Next level horrible team effort, and that's coaching. 

[GoColts8818]

I’d agree with what most are saying.  Wentz alone is not to blame for the Jax debacle but just because he wasn’t the only problem doesn’t mean he played well.  

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I’d agree with what most are saying.  Wentz alone is not to blame for the Jax debacle but just because he wasn’t the only problem doesn’t mean he played well.  

 

The OL and DL were next level bad. If your looking at 22 starters, Wentz was not top 10 in terms of level of suck.