The Athletic introducing a narrative podcast series on Andrew Luck

[DougDew]

On 7/2/2022 at 1:17 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Also….  Luck didn’t participate in any team activities the entire off-season.   Zero in the Spring.   Zero in training camp.  At the presser Ballard talked about the strange off-season saying Luck ended the 2018 season feeling pretty good, then something happened at the Pro Bowl that no one could pin down.  Ankle sprain?   High ankle sprain? Shin?    No one knew.   So the team knew something was up. 

 

But I’d add, that no one in the Colts seems angry with Luck.   Not Irsay, or Ballard, or Reich, or players.   No one.    Yet people here think Luck screwed the team.

Its a matter of opinion, but I think at the time of the presser, Ballard seemed angry.  Always the corporate diplomat, so he never said words to that effect, but when talking about it his demeanor, tone, pause between sentences, direct with some words hesitant and soft with others, I got the impression that he thought Luck sort of double crossed him.

 

That he thought that Luck was thinking about retirement during the entire offseason.....that something was going on besides simply an injury that team doctors could not corroborate.....and Luck strung him along for longer than he needed to.  Maybe not anger, but frustration with Luck that it took him so long to finally get off the pot, so to speak..  A much less favorable opinion than Irsay or Frank appeared to have.  JMO.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its a matter of opinion, but I think at the time of the presser, Ballard seemed angry.  Always the corporate diplomat, so he never said words to that effect, but when talking about it his demeanor, tone, pause between sentences, direct with some words hesitant and soft with others, I got the impression that he thought Luck sort of double crossed him.

 

That he thought that Luck was thinking about retirement during the entire offseason.....that something was going on besides simply an injury that team doctors could not corroborate.....and Luck strung him along for longer than he needed to.  Maybe not anger, but frustration with Luck that it took him so long to finally get off the pot, so to speak..  A much less favorable opinion than Irsay or Frank appeared to have.  JMO.

Your mention of angry is the first I’ve ever seen anyone ever say that.   I just re-watched his press conference and while I’m sure CB was stunned I never ever thought he was angry.   He even said the words THAT he loved Andrew Luck.    

 

And in every interview he’s done about Luck over the years, Ballard says this….   
 

— That he loves Luck. 
— That he talks to him all the time.   I get the sense it’s every few months or so. 
— That he understands why Luck did what he did.   
 

I’ve never picked up the vibe you did.   Just a different perspective.  

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Your mention of angry is the first I’ve ever seen anyone ever say that.   I just re-watched his press conference and while I’m sure CB was stunned I never ever thought he was angry.   He even said the words THAT he loved Andrew Luck.    

 

And in every interview he’s done about Luck over the years, Ballard says this….   
 

— That he loves Luck. 
— That he talks to him all the time.   I get the sense it’s every few months or so. 
— That he understands why Luck did what he did.   
 

I’ve never picked up the vibe you did.   Just a different perspective.  

I used angry because that's where you started with your quote.  But later I said perhaps frustrated.

 

At Luck as a person, not just the situation.   

 

He said something to the effect that either you are with us or you are not.  That sounds like frustration and diminishing respect for Luck as a person.

 

Wanted to add previously:  Some time after, Irsay would talk about accepting Luck back with open arms.  Ballard never said that, and even indicated that he has moved on....this was only a few weeks/ months afterwards.  Some may speculate that its simply because he knew Andrew wasn't ever coming back, but others could equally speculate that Ballard was not eager to bring back the drama and uncertainty that it could happen again...having to then manage the roster with a huge contingency plan.

 

I got the vibe that Ballard was not on the same Luck-liking page as Irsay was at the time of the retirement or after.  That's not to say that he would not take him back or didn't generally like him as a person. 

[NewColtsFan]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I used angry because that's where you started with your quote.  But later I said perhaps frustrated.

 

At Luck as a person, not just the situation.   

 

He said something to the effect that either you are with us or you are not.  That sounds like frustration and diminishing respect for Luck as a person.

 

Wanted to add previously:  Some time after, Irsay would talk about accepting Luck back with open arms.  Ballard never said that, and even indicated that he has moved on....this was only a few weeks/ months afterwards.  Some may speculate that its simply because he knew Andrew wasn't ever coming back, but others could equally speculate that Ballard was not eager to bring back the drama and uncertainty that it could happen again...having to then manage the roster with a huge contingency plan.

 

I got the vibe that Ballard was not on the same Luck-liking page as Irsay was at the time of the retirement or after.  That's not to say that he would not take him back or didn't generally like him as a person. 

Hypothetically speaking….   A few years from now, after the Matt Ryan era, if Ballard picks up the phone and it’s Luck saying he’s ready to come back, I’m sure Ballard doesn’t want another One and Done scenario.   He’d have to be convinced that Luck was back for the long haul.    He would want to minimize any possible drama.   Might even want to put incentives to play longer, OR,  put in disincentives to only playing a year or two.   Ballard might even ask Luck if he wants to play for the Colts or some other team that we could trade him to.   I put nothing past Ballard and Irsay to explore every possibility.  
 

But sadly, I think it’s all a pipe dream.   He appears to be enjoying his new life being Mr. Mom and let his wife Nicole enjoy her job.   
 

I don’t have a lot of interest in defending Luck.  For a super smart guy he made plenty of dumb moves in his time with the Colts.  His retirement was only one of them. 

[Superman]

56 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Wanted to add previously:  Some time after, Irsay would talk about accepting Luck back with open arms.  Ballard never said that, and even indicated that he has moved on....this was only a few weeks/ months afterwards.  Some may speculate that its simply because he knew Andrew wasn't ever coming back, but others could equally speculate that Ballard was not eager to bring back the drama and uncertainty that it could happen again...having to then manage the roster with a huge contingency plan.

 

It's all irrelevant because Luck isn't coming back, but in an interview over the last year -- maybe with Dakich? -- Ballard was asked how he'd respond if Luck said he wanted to come back. Ballard's response: "Welcome back!" No hesitation. 

 

Ballard has moved on. It's a pointless hypothetical because it's never going to happen. But he did say he'd have him back. 

[NFLfan]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:16 AM, NewColtsFan said:

People here have opinions and are not very open to learning anything that doesn’t conform to their viewpoint.  

 

Unfortunately that is the case with most people in general. They create a narrative to explain why something happened and they will not accept new information that challenges the narrative. 

 

On 7/15/2022 at 12:17 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Luck always felt enormous pressure to make play after play.

 

It is hard to believe that those watching Colts games did not see that. A play never seemed to be over for Luck. He gave his all to the team until he could not do it anymore. 

 

I would have loved to have Luck as a Viking, even if he retired the way he did. 

 

[NFLfan]

On 7/15/2022 at 10:47 AM, Mackrel829 said:

I lost a lot of respect for Adam Schefter after finding out that he broke the news

 

I lost respect for Schefter when he posted a copy of Jason Pierre Paul's medical report (or X-ray) after the player severely injured his hand playing with fireworks. That was inappropriate and it showed someone desperate to be first in reporting news. I did not realize he had anything to do with leaking Luck's planned retirement. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

Unfortunately that is the case with most people in general. They create a narrative to explain why something happened and they will not accept new information that challenges the narrative. 

 

 

It is hard to believe that those watching Colts games did not see that. A play never seemed to be over for Luck. He gave his all to the team until he could not do it anymore. 

 

I would have loved to have Luck as a Viking, even if he retired the way he did. 

 

Luck carried our team for years and how anyone can dislike him is mindboggling. So under appreciated. 

[Four2itus]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:47 AM, Mackrel829 said:

I lost a lot of respect for Adam Schefter after finding out that he broke the news when a press conference was already scheduled for soon after. It was obvious that he'd leaked it without permission but the exact nature and chronology of the events weren't clear

Me as well.  There is your duty to your job, and there is your honor as a human being. He made his choice. 

[NewColtsFan]

So here’s one of my takeaways that I hit from listening to this very, VERY good series.   
 

1.   I was wrong about one thing (at least) while at Stanford.   That both Harbaugh, himself a former QB, and Shaw, an OC with Luck at the beginning, heavily stressed to Luck (and All Quarterbacks) to learn to protect yourself.   Head and throwing shoulder.   They couldn’t say it enough.   

 

It’s often been said that Luck was built like a linebacker.   Well, turns out, that was his mentality as well.   Shaw tells this story:   It’s Luck’s sophomore season, first game and he’s starting.  Playing at Washington State.   Early on, Luck is trying to run for a first down, he’s heading out of bounds, short of the first, and at the last second, Luck decides he’s not going out easily.   There’s a fast charging safety, and Luck plants his left foot and throws his right shoulder at him for a wicked hit.   Still didn’t get the first, but there was unnecessary contact.  
 

Now Luck is jogging off the field and he can see that Shaw is LIVID,  out of his freaking mind FURIOUS!!  And Luck says….    “I know!  I know!   I know!   I know!   I just HAD to do it, just once!” 

Now fast fireard to three years later…. It’s Luck’s rookie season season,  and he throws an interception then sprints over to make the tackle on the DB, and he brings him down using….  His right shoulder.    Luck is coming off the field where he’s greeted by a FURIOUS Bruce Arians who says “when you throw an interception, it’s not your f#%^*ing job to make the tackle!!”   To which Luck snaps back, “The HELL it isn’t!   Whenever I throw an interception I’m going to try and make the tackle!”    And Arians ends this by yelling “Then you better learn how to use your LEFT SHOULDER!!”    And I cleaned up that Arians story.  Lol! 
 

Clearly Luck is smart enough to know better.  He doesn’t have a learning disability.  But, IMO,  he’s just hard wired that way.   Built like a linebacker, turns out, he liked to play with a linebacker’s mentality.   Ultimately, it cost him. 
 

[w87r]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Clearly Luck is smart enough to know better.  He doesn’t have a learning disability.  But, IMO,  he’s just hard wired that way.   Built like a linebacker, turns out, he liked to play with a linebacker’s mentality.   Ultimately, it cost him. 

Definitely did, as much blame as was put on the team for not protecting him(deserved). His mentality put him in danger far too often. The lacerated kidney, was all on him against Denver. Could of and should of got down sooner. 

 

It's a shame for him and the organization, as we still haven't recovered from his early departure. Hopefully Ryan can get us back on track this season.

 

 

Definitely need to check that series

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

So here’s one of my takeaways that I hit from listening to this very, VERY good series.   
 

1.   I was wrong about one thing (at least) while at Stanford.   That both Harbaugh, himself a former QB, and Shaw, an OC with Luck at the beginning, heavily stressed to Luck (and All Quarterbacks) to learn to protect yourself.   Head and throwing shoulder.   They couldn’t say it enough.   

 

It’s often been said that Luck was built like a linebacker.   Well, turns out, that was his mentality as well.   Shaw tells this story:   It’s Luck’s sophomore season, first game and he’s starting.  Playing at Washington State.   Early on, Luck is trying to run for a first down, he’s heading out of bounds, short of the first, and at the last second, Luck decides he’s not going out easily.   There’s a fast charging safety, and Luck plants his left foot and throws his right shoulder at him for a wicked hit.   Still didn’t get the first, but there was unnecessary contact.  
 

Now Luck is jogging off the field and he can see that Shaw is LIVID,  out of his freaking mind FURIOUS!!  And Luck says….    “I know!  I know!   I know!   I know!   I just HAD to do it, just once!” 

Now fast fireard to three years later…. It’s Luck’s rookie season season,  and he throws an interception then sprints over to make the tackle on the DB, and he brings him down using….  His right shoulder.    Luck is coming off the field where he’s greeted by a FURIOUS Bruce Arians who says “when you throw an interception, it’s not your f#%^*ing job to make the tackle!!”   To which Luck snaps back, “The HELL it isn’t!   Whenever I throw an interception I’m going to try and make the tackle!”    And Arians ends this by yelling “Then you better learn how to use your LEFT SHOULDER!!”    And I cleaned up that Arians story.  Lol! 
 

Clearly Luck is smart enough to know better.  He doesn’t have a learning disability.  But, IMO,  he’s just hard wired that way.   Built like a linebacker, turns out, he liked to play with a linebacker’s mentality.   Ultimately, it cost him. 
 

I was thinking the same thing! Using his right shoulder over and over again in those hits… It’s no wonder what happened later on in his career. 

[SR711]

I am a little late posting on this thread.  Just finished listening to the entire podcast over the past several days during work commute.  Here are my thoughts.  

 

- Credit to Zak Keefer.  Overall, I thought he did an excellent job presenting the timeline (which obviously a lot of us die-hard Colts fans knew pretty well) and, for the most part, giving a balanced view on things.  As others have said, it would have been really cool for Luck to have an the on the record interview to hear his perspective as the timeline of his career was being put out during the 6 series podcast but that completely his prerogative to keep his meeting with Keefer off the record.  

 

- In the end, Luck's decision to retire was and will always a unique, bizarre, shocking situation for which in my opinion there is no parallel in sports history and may not be ever in the future.  However, I think the main reason for this is that Andrew Luck was just...different (and I absolutely do not mean that in any negative way).  A main reason for his enjoyment of the sport of football and part of what made such a great teammate, talented player was his fearlessness in seeking contact, making plays through hits, lay everything on the line mentality, etc. As New Colts Fan stated,  he was essentially a LB playing QB.  However, this type of playing style makes you not for long in a league as violent as the NFL as there is only so much physical pounding anyone can absorb before the injuries start to mount and take a toll.   

 

- The two years I wished that pros like Ballard and Reich were in this organization were 2015 and 2016.  How different would things have turned out if someone had been the adult in the room, understood Lucks mentality, had the gumption, conviction to protect Andrew from himself and essentially told him that they are not playing him until things are right, That if he is having pain to the level that he was where he was on a throwing count, unable to regularly practice, requiring injections into ribs to play, etc then it is NOT worth it for a QB in only his 4th and 5th seasons where it could possibly have effects on his long term health.  This, to me, is the biggest failing of the Pagano-Grigson regime, Colts medical staff, (Irsay has his hands in this too): not doing everything at that time to ensure Lucks health, effectiveness and long-term future by sitting him out and/or having surgery at that time. 

 

- Last thought, but I think the Colts franchise has done a poor job of turning the page from Luck.  To me, every move at the starting QB position since 2019 including the one this offseason for Matt Ryan has been a placeholder, halfway, conservative feel where there is a 1-2 year out instead of just clearly focusing on getting a new long-term answer at the position.  It almost feels like they do this as a contingency for the pipe dream that Andrew Luck may want to come back when, in reality, knowing his MO and his absolute dislike for attention, that is highly unlikely.  

 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, SR711 said:

I am a little late posting on this thread.  Just finished listening to the entire podcast over the past several days during work commute.  Here are my thoughts.  

 

- Credit to Zak Keefer.  Overall, I thought he did an excellent job presenting the timeline (which obviously a lot of us die-hard Colts fans knew pretty well) and, for the most part, giving a balanced view on things.  As others have said, it would have been really cool for Luck to have an the on the record interview to hear his perspective as the timeline of his career was being put out during the 6 series podcast but that completely his prerogative to keep his meeting with Keefer off the record.  

 

- In the end, Luck's decision to retire was and will always a unique, bizarre, shocking situation for which in my opinion there is no parallel in sports history and may not be ever in the future.  However, I think the main reason for this is that Andrew Luck was just...different (and I absolutely do not mean that in any negative way).  A main reason for his enjoyment of the sport of football and part of what made such a great teammate, talented player was his fearlessness in seeking contact, making plays through hits, lay everything on the line mentality, etc. As New Colts Fan stated,  he was essentially a LB playing QB.  However, this type of playing style makes you not for long in a league as violent as the NFL as there is only so much physical pounding anyone can absorb before the injuries start to mount and take a toll.   

 

- The two years I wished that pros like Ballard and Reich were in this organization were 2015 and 2016.  How different would things have turned out if someone had been the adult in the room, understood Lucks mentality, had the gumption, conviction to protect Andrew from himself and essentially told him that they are not playing him until things are right, That if he is having pain to the level that he was where he was on a throwing count, unable to regularly practice, requiring injections into ribs to play, etc then it is NOT worth it for a QB in only his 4th and 5th seasons where it could possibly have effects on his long term health.  This, to me, is the biggest failing of the Pagano-Grigson regime, Colts medical staff, (Irsay has his hands in this too): not doing everything at that time to ensure Lucks health, effectiveness and long-term future by sitting him out and/or having surgery at that time. 

 

- Last thought, but I think the Colts franchise has done a poor job of turning the page from Luck.  To me, every move at the starting QB position since 2019 including the one this offseason for Matt Ryan has been a placeholder, halfway, conservative feel where there is a 1-2 year out instead of just clearly focusing on getting a new long-term answer at the position.  It almost feels like they do this as a contingency for the pipe dream that Andrew Luck may want to come back when, in reality, knowing his MO and his absolute dislike for attention, that is highly unlikely.  

 

Good post.  I agreed with most every view right up until the last paragraph.  We part company there.   There was almost nothing to agree with there.  Still….  On balance the rest of the post was solid.    

[Superman]

15 hours ago, SR711 said:

- Last thought, but I think the Colts franchise has done a poor job of turning the page from Luck.  To me, every move at the starting QB position since 2019 including the one this offseason for Matt Ryan has been a placeholder, halfway, conservative feel where there is a 1-2 year out instead of just clearly focusing on getting a new long-term answer at the position.  It almost feels like they do this as a contingency for the pipe dream that Andrew Luck may want to come back when, in reality, knowing his MO and his absolute dislike for attention, that is highly unlikely.  

 

I don't agree with the bolded. I think the team has moved on.

 

But the rest of this paragraph, yeah. With the benefit of hindsight, we absolutely should have committed to drafting a QB in 2020, 2021 at the latest. We've spent a ton of cap space, and now a first round pick, on QBs that aren't even on the roster anymore. Finding your next QB in the draft is easier said than done, but we really haven't even tried.

 

This season the market sucked, so Matt Ryan was the best option available. But we probably shouldn't have been in the market this offseason to begin with.

 

And I say all this fully understanding the reasons we went with Rivers and Wentz. But those decisions didn't work out, and because of them, we're here in 2022 with a 37 year old transplant.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't agree with the bolded. I think the team has moved on.

 

But the rest of this paragraph, yeah. With the benefit of hindsight, we absolutely should have committed to drafting a QB in 2020, 2021 at the latest. We've spent a ton of cap space, and now a first round pick, on QBs that aren't even on the roster anymore. Finding your next QB in the draft is easier said than done, but we really haven't even tried.

 

This season the market sucked, so Matt Ryan was the best option available. But we probably shouldn't have been in the market this offseason to begin with.

 

And I say all this fully understanding the reasons we went with Rivers and Wentz. But those decisions didn't work out, and because of them, we're here in 2022 with a 37 year old transplant.

I would say rivers worked out. But yes two good QB classes and they failed to even try. That’s one of my biggest gripes about Ballard.

[2006Coltsbestever]

31 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I would say rivers worked out. But yes two good QB classes and they failed to even try. That’s one of my biggest gripes about Ballard.

I wouldn't say "they failed to even try". Nobody knows that. In 2020, Joe Burrow went #1, Tua went #5, Herbert #6. We had the 13th pick so moving that far up to even get Herbert would have been tough and I would rather have Matt Ryan than Tua going into 2022. Many in here wanted freakin Jordan Love which was laughable. Trading our 13th pick to get Buck was the right move.

 

In 2021, Lawrence went #1, Zach Wilson #2, Trey Lance #3. So far Zach Wilson looks like a complete bust, Trey Lance has done nothing - can't even get on the field because Jimmy is even better, Lawrence had a bad rookie season. We had the 21st pick of the draft so what was Ballard supposed to do? Justin Fields went 11th and no way Chicago was trading that pick because they were hell bent on taking a QB. IMO, I don't think Fields will be that good anyway, I can see him being above average and winning some games but that is about it - not a franchise QB. 

 

We are in win now mode and can't waste Taylor's, Leonard's, and Nelson's primes, so we need a Vet QB to take us over the top. Rivers was really good in 2020, Wentz didn't work out in 2021, but I think Matt Ryan is better than both of those guys. Rivers is actually 3 years older than Matt Ryan, big difference when you are nearing 40. Ryan may play 3 more years for all we know. I think 2 at worse. Wentz was the only mistake that Ballard made and we still won 9 games with him. In 2019 we were stuck with JB because of Luck leaving on the fly. That screwed Ballard's plans up but crap happens.

[AustexColt]

I thought Zac's podcast noted that Stanford had baseball coaches showing Luck how to slide. That means Shaw knew about Luck's "self destruct" behaviour. 

 

The early retirement of Luck, the neck issue and releasing Peyton, the ditching of Josh Daniels, the 2021 Jax loss and the stint with Carson Wentz..... what's next?????

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:43 PM, NewColtsFan said:

So here’s one of my takeaways that I hit from listening to this very, VERY good series.   
 

1.   I was wrong about one thing (at least) while at Stanford.   That both Harbaugh, himself a former QB, and Shaw, an OC with Luck at the beginning, heavily stressed to Luck (and All Quarterbacks) to learn to protect yourself.   Head and throwing shoulder.   They couldn’t say it enough.   

 

It’s often been said that Luck was built like a linebacker.   Well, turns out, that was his mentality as well.   Shaw tells this story:   It’s Luck’s sophomore season, first game and he’s starting.  Playing at Washington State.   Early on, Luck is trying to run for a first down, he’s heading out of bounds, short of the first, and at the last second, Luck decides he’s not going out easily.   There’s a fast charging safety, and Luck plants his left foot and throws his right shoulder at him for a wicked hit.   Still didn’t get the first, but there was unnecessary contact.  
 

Now Luck is jogging off the field and he can see that Shaw is LIVID,  out of his freaking mind FURIOUS!!  And Luck says….    “I know!  I know!   I know!   I know!   I just HAD to do it, just once!” 

Now fast fireard to three years later…. It’s Luck’s rookie season season,  and he throws an interception then sprints over to make the tackle on the DB, and he brings him down using….  His right shoulder.    Luck is coming off the field where he’s greeted by a FURIOUS Bruce Arians who says “when you throw an interception, it’s not your f#%^*ing job to make the tackle!!”   To which Luck snaps back, “The HELL it isn’t!   Whenever I throw an interception I’m going to try and make the tackle!”    And Arians ends this by yelling “Then you better learn how to use your LEFT SHOULDER!!”    And I cleaned up that Arians story.  Lol! 
 

Clearly Luck is smart enough to know better.  He doesn’t have a learning disability.  But, IMO,  he’s just hard wired that way.   Built like a linebacker, turns out, he liked to play with a linebacker’s mentality.   Ultimately, it cost him. 
 

 

A excellent and more importantly, a truthful post about Luck's mindset & playing style AND NOT a silly narrative 

that Griggs did him in. 

Luck, like my only sports idol, Bert Jones, played wreckless for the position AND importance of their value to the team.