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Woods will be a difference maker.


throwing BBZ

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9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


Hooper was not.  
 

Fact:  Ryan likes throwing to his tight ends. 

 

Hooper was a 2x Pro Bowler. Not AP type of elite, but he was easily top 10 in the league at the position for several years. His last 2 years in ATL were pretty good. 

 

If you look back at Ryan's career, I wouldn't call the Falcons TE heavy. I'd call them single TE heavy, but not overall TE heavy. Pitts is more or less a WR/TE, and without Julio, it was pretty obvious he was going to be a primary weapon. Prior to Pitts last year, Falcons only really used Hooper as a TE target and overall TE usage wasn't all that high. A few other TEs got targets here and there. You'd have to go back to the few years Tony Gonzales played for ATL to see super high rates of usage. 

 

 

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On 6/24/2022 at 8:18 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

I would love it if Woods becomes  the next Gronk , but history on the position suggests he won't as a rookie. A GM I listened to said TE is one of the hardest positions to transition to in the NFL. They have to know catching and blocking assignments. They just take-time to develop because they have a lot of responsibilities. 


I’ve been posting this for roughly 3 months, before the draft.    I’m not expecting a big rookie year from Woods.  Mostly blocking, roughly 20-25 catches.   A solid rookie year, but nothing special.   I always try to have very modest expectations for rookies.  

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On 6/24/2022 at 11:28 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

I loved Parris coming out but he is injured all the time and Woods is a rookie TE who rarely contribute much  theor 1st season.

 

  Gotta be honest, i don't think you have a grasp on Campbell or Woods.

 Campbell IS healthy and Woods says he Already KNOWS how to read and attack defenses while on the move. You are limited by your negativism and by extreme prejudice.
 It is kind of like having your own head injury. 
 Put a Healing Colts hat on, look in the mirror and say I Am a Winner I Am a WINNER I AM A WINNER!  The Colts ARE going to exceed my lowly Epectations!! 

  Ten times a day till training camp. BE A WINNER!   :lecture::colts::applause:     :spit:

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54 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Gotta be honest, i don't think you have a grasp on Campbell or Woods.

 Campbell IS healthy and Woods says he Already KNOWS how to read and attack defenses while on the move. You are limited by your negativism and by extreme prejudice.
 It is kind of like having your own head injury. 
 Put a Healing Colts hat on, look in the mirror and say I Am a Winner I Am a WINNER I AM A WINNER!  The Colts ARE going to exceed my lowly Epectations!! 

  Ten times a day till training camp. BE A WINNER!   :lecture::colts::applause:     :spit:

Okay so I am Mr.Negative? Look at  some of my recent posts. I think they have a chance of winning the superbowl. I loved  Campbell coming out of college. He was my fav receiver coming out that year. He has been hurt 3 years in a row, so I am not really counting on him. He may have an all pro year, but I really don't think u can evaluate him as being a game changer because of his injury history. Woods has a lot of hype because of his measureables. U have to remember he was a 3rd round pick even with those RAS numbers. Te's just don't do a lot their rookie years. Once again, he may be an all pro but I doubt. His production may be similar to Gransons last year. I am expecting Granson to take a leap this year. If he does not, I expect to see a lot of 3 and 4 receiver sets.

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16 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Right. But there's going to be some games where he won't have any catches. I think 400 is still off. My 2 cents.

 

I'm not expecting him to lit up the league right away, but Reich and Ballard wanted him bad. I just can't see them not using Woods where he can't average 25 yards

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2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm not expecting him to lit up the league right away, but Reich and Ballard wanted him bad. I just can't see them not using Woods where he can't average 25 yards

Having Matt Ryan should help and our TE room isn't loaded lmao . I like Mo but he is average to above average. Woods could have a few solid games. Granson is a mystery IMO, he only had 106 yards last season.

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6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Okay so I am Mr.Negative? Look at  some of my recent posts. I think they have a chance of winning the superbowl. I loved  Campbell coming out of college. He was my fav receiver coming out that year. He has been hurt 3 years in a row, so I am not really counting on him. He may have an all pro year, but I really don't think u can evaluate him as being a game changer because of his injury history. Woods has a lot of hype because of his measureables. U have to remember he was a 3rd round pick even with those RAS numbers. Te's just don't do a lot their rookie years. Once again, he may be an all pro but I doubt. His production may be similar to Gransons last year. I am expecting Granson to take a leap this year. If he does not, I expect to see a lot of 3 and 4 receiver sets.

You just bag on Nelson too much is why you get flack lmao . Having said that, I have seen some of your recent posts and you have been saying that we will win the division. So that is pretty positive. 

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On 6/23/2022 at 11:55 AM, Superman said:

I really like Jelani Woods. I think he'll take some time adjusting to the physicality of the NFL, and it will disrupt his normal timing and rhythm. He can handle it physically, but he's always been the man among boys, and that's not the case anymore. He'll have to refine his skills to take advantage of his physical talents. And that's typical for young TEs.

 

Same goes for his blocking. I think he has the tools to be fine as a blocker, but his technique and hands usage is all over the place. The expectation that he'll be a good blocker right away is probably mistaken. 

 

If we deploy him the right way, he can be a weapon in Year 1. That might not mean big statistical production, but I think he'll have some specific chances to impact the game as a rookie. 

do you think he is lacking strength? in comparison, Mo looks pretty strong. 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You just bag on Nelson too much is why you get flack lmao . Having said that, I have seen some of your recent posts and you have been saying that we will win the division. So that is pretty positive. 

Lol..thanks. I am a little OCD.  When I get on something...well u get it hahaha.

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On 6/23/2022 at 2:22 AM, CR91 said:

 

How much were those numbers skewed because of the lack of touches in the first three games? It wasn't til the dolphins game that the offense was going through Taylor.

How much of those numbers were skewed because we fed Taylor for the whole middle and late point in the season for his MVP bid that was never that realistic?  I don't blame Reich for over-feeding JT the ball, given our middling passing game and Taylors ability to dominate regardless of the opponent. 

 

Either way, I think his lack of touches in the first 3 games was sufficiently balanced out for his eventual overuse.  I agree that the Colts would look to give him 30 or so less touches with the majority going to Hines in the passing game, if I were to guess. 

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Not necessarily. Just like any young TE he'll have to get stronger, but I don't think he's deficient. 

 

Agree in general. But a lot of reviews have called out his slender bottom half.

I watched some of his film, and he really struggled at times, even with LBs. 

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@philba101 posted this in the twitter thread, but figured it should be here too.

 

Pretty much what I've been saying. Needs to work on blocking, hands need to be more consistent, and needs to put on weight / strength. And Ballard said the same thing I said when we drafted him... A lot of similarities to Mo.

 

 

Ballard and Reich Continue to be Impressed with Jelani Woods:

 

Colts GM Chris Ballard is excited about third-round TE Jelani Woods and compared him to current Colts TE Mo Alie-Cox.

“It’s kind of like Mo,” Ballard said, via ESPN. “When you’re 6-7, the quarterback can put the ball up, and he’s…able to make a play on it. This kid can run. This kid can really run, so we’re excited to get him.”

 

Colts HC Frank Reich wants Woods to gain consistency and develop as a blocker in order to take his game to the next level.  “I felt like he looked even bigger in person. I really did,” Reich said. “I mean, he’s a big man. I knew he was big on tape, but he’s a big man — really looked good. It’s all going to be, for Jelani, about consistency, about not just making the big flash play, but really developing as a blocker. That’s going to be really important.”

 

Colts GM Chris Ballard believes Woods will be able to get the blocking aspect of his job down, adding that he expects him to put on an additional 25-30 pounds as well. “Mo went through this, and Mo’s gotten better at it, but any time you’re that tall, learning how to play with leverage and play with your pad level down,” Ballard said. “It’s just something that’s going to take a lot of work.

 

He’s a big man. I think he’s got 230 pounds of lean mass on his body. He’s probably going to play at about 255-260. It’ll take him some time to learn how to really block, but he did it at Oklahoma State. So, we think he’ll be able to do it here.”

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/afc_notes_colts_davis_mills_texans_titans/s1_17039_37632024

 

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

@philba101 posted this in the twitter thread, but figured it should be here too.

 

Pretty much what I've been saying. Needs to work on blocking, hands need to be more consistent, and needs to put on weight / strength. And Ballard said the same thing I said when we drafted him... A lot of similarities to Mo.

 

 

No question he has to develop as a blocker. My comments have mostly been about his ability to do so. He'll have to get stronger, including in his lower half so he can anchor, and he needs to develop his technique. But ultimately I don't see him as an inline blocking TE, I see him as a movable piece who can be a weapon as a receiving target, but will also need to block to stay on the field. 

 

Quote

 

Colts GM Chris Ballard believes Woods will be able to get the blocking aspect of his job down, adding that he expects him to put on an additional 25-30 pounds as well. “Mo went through this, and Mo’s gotten better at it, but any time you’re that tall, learning how to play with leverage and play with your pad level down,” Ballard said. “It’s just something that’s going to take a lot of work.

 

He’s a big man. I think he’s got 230 pounds of lean mass on his body. He’s probably going to play at about 255-260. It’ll take him some time to learn how to really block, but he did it at Oklahoma State. So, we think he’ll be able to do it here.”

 

 

One nitpick with this article, the Colts don't expect him to put on 25-30 pounds, and that's not what Ballard said. Woods weighed in at the Combine at 259. He's listed at 253 on the Colts website. At Virginia, he was listed between 265-275. Ballard said he'd play between 255-260, which is basically where he has been since the spring, and is less than in college. Ballard's comment was he has 230 pounds of lean mass, so they want him to be around 10% body fat when he's 255-260. Putting on that much more weight would change his body type, and reduce his athleticism, which is no doubt a big reason they drafted him in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

No question he has to develop as a blocker. My comments have mostly been about his ability to do so. He'll have to get stronger, including in his lower half so he can anchor, and he needs to develop his technique. But ultimately I don't see him as an inline blocking TE, I see him as a movable piece who can be a weapon as a receiving target, but will also need to block to stay on the field. 

IMO, we've put way to much emphasis on blocking for skill players, instead of simply rotating guys in and out for specific purposes. I know that might tip the D to certain things, but some plays it really doesn't matter. If we're 3rd and long, I don't want blockers in if we know they aren't going to block anyway. 

 

I'm not all that sure he'll be a movable piece though, given his hands have been suspect. If he were sure handed and an advanced route runner, I'd agree though. But he's not.

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

One nitpick with this article, the Colts don't expect him to put on 25-30 pounds, and that's not what Ballard said. Woods weighed in at the Combine at 259. He's listed at 253 on the Colts website. At Virginia, he was listed between 265-275. Ballard said he'd play between 255-260, which is basically where he has been since the spring, and is less than in college. Ballard's comment was he has 230 pounds of lean mass, so they want him to be around 10% body fat when he's 255-260. Putting on that much more weight would change his body type, and reduce his athleticism, which is no doubt a big reason they drafted him in the first place.

 

I found that odd too (the weight comments in general).

But I think you have things mixed up. He weighed in at the combine at 253 per his RAS.

And I never put much stock in college measurements. 

So just doing the rough math, he's an inch taller than Mo, but about 15lbs lighter.

So I don't think it's crazy to think he'll put on 20lbs given his current body make up.

 

Here's a pic from his pro day. Those are some bean pole legs. Mo on the other hand, was thicker (legs) coming in, 10lbs heavier, and still needed to put on some weight. 

 

jelani-woods-uva-pro-day.jpg

 

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, we've put way to much emphasis on blocking for skill players, instead of simply rotating guys in and out for specific purposes. I know that might tip the D to certain things, but some plays it really doesn't matter. If we're 3rd and long, I don't want blockers in if we know they aren't going to block anyway. 

 

I'm not all that sure he'll be a movable piece though, given his hands have been suspect. If he were sure handed and an advanced route runner, I'd agree though. But he's not.

 

I found that odd too (the weight comments in general).

But I think you have things mixed up. He weighed in at the combine at 253 per his RAS.

And I never put much stock in college measurements. 

So just doing the rough math, he's an inch taller than Mo, but about 15lbs lighter.

So I don't think it's crazy to think he'll put on 20lbs given his current body make up.

 

Here's a pic from his pro day. Those are some bean pole legs. Mo on the other hand, was thicker (legs) coming in, 10lbs heavier, and still needed to put on some weight. 

 

jelani-woods-uva-pro-day.jpg

 

 

Third and long, sure. Short yardage, red zone, goal line, probably need to be able to block to play TE.

 

I don't think his hands are suspect. I've watched plenty of his games, there are a few drops, nothing too alarming. His technique as a pass catcher is sound.

 

I don't know how you conclude I have things mixed up about his weight. He was 259 at the Combine, not 253. He's listed at 253 on the Colts site. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/2022-combine.htm

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jelani-woods/3200574f-4f50-0422-b6bf-870b499f48cd

 

You can disregard the college measurements if you like, they're generally not reliable. But 20 pounds is dramatic. Ok State (where he was almost exclusively a blocker) and Virginia consistently listed him at 275. ESPN listed him at 265. More importantly, Ballard said he'll play at 255-260, which is right around where he's measured/listed since spring. So the article stating the team wants him to put on 25-30 pounds is unfounded (and most likely comes from a misunderstanding of Ballard's "230 pounds of lean mass" comment). And he can certainly get stronger in his lower body without putting on such a significant amount of weight.

 

The comp to Mo is natural, although Mo is a slightly higher BMI guy and not as athletic/explosive as Woods. But when Ballard was talking about Woods and brought up Mo, it was specific to the challenges they'll face as blockers, given their height.

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28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Third and long, sure. Short yardage, red zone, goal line, probably need to be able to block to play TE.

 

I don't think his hands are suspect. I've watched plenty of his games, there are a few drops, nothing too alarming. His technique as a pass catcher is sound.

Every profile I've read on him talks about drops. He had drops reported in OTAs as well. 

I've also watched several of his games. He's not a natural catcher. Especially away from the body.

 

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know how you conclude I have things mixed up about his weight. He was 259 at the Combine, not 253. He's listed at 253 on the Colts site. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/2022-combine.htm

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jelani-woods/3200574f-4f50-0422-b6bf-870b499f48cd

I see your two links, and raise you RAS and a few other links. I've yet to find errors on RAS and the nflcombineresults.com site.

The PFR site row of info looks iffy. It's void of several fields. 

 

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=30828

https://www.si.com/college/virginia/football/jelani-woods-stands-out-at-nfl-combine

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/20/indianapolis-colts-jelani-woods-workout-nfl-draft-2022/#:~:text=Woods came out of the,posted a 37.5-inch vertical.

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/04/2022-nfl-draft-player-profiles-virginia-te-jelani-woods/

jelani-woods-ras-1.jpeg

28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You can disregard the college measurements if you like, they're generally not reliable. But 20 pounds is dramatic. Ok State (where he was almost exclusively a blocker) and Virginia consistently listed him at 275. ESPN listed him at 265. More importantly, Ballard said he'll play at 255-260, which is right around where he's measured/listed since spring. So the article stating the team wants him to put on 25-30 pounds is unfounded (and most likely comes from a misunderstanding of Ballard's "230 pounds of lean mass" comment). And he can certainly get stronger in his lower body without putting on such a significant amount of weight.

 

The comp to Mo is natural, although Mo is a slightly higher BMI guy and not as athletic/explosive as Woods. But when Ballard was talking about Woods and brought up Mo, it was specific to the challenges they'll face as blockers, given their height.

 

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23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Every profile I've read on him talks about drops. He had drops reported in OTAs as well. 

I've also watched several of his games. He's not a natural catcher. Especially away from the body.

 

I see your two links, and raise you RAS and a few other links. I've yet to find errors on RAS and the nflcombineresults.com site.

The PFR site row of info looks iffy. It's void of several fields. 

 

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=30828

https://www.si.com/college/virginia/football/jelani-woods-stands-out-at-nfl-combine

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/20/indianapolis-colts-jelani-woods-workout-nfl-draft-2022/#:~:text=Woods came out of the,posted a 37.5-inch vertical.

https://steelersdepot.com/2022/04/2022-nfl-draft-player-profiles-virginia-te-jelani-woods/

jelani-woods-ras-1.jpeg

 

 

Alright.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

Alright.

 

I found some other sites that say 259 as well. 

And saw 247 has his pro day as 252.

My guess is he measured differently between his pro day and combine. Or maybe even the Shine Bowl (he's 259 on their site).

Anyway, multiple reports of both 253 and 259. 

 

So 252, 253, and 259 lol.. 

Let's just say he's 255ish. 

Regardless, pics don't lie about his lower body. His upper body doesn't look chiseled either lol. 

I think it's fair to think he'll need a good year of S&C to get his body right for this level. Hoping he's been hitting the weights already.

But I won't mind seeing him as a receiving threat at all if he gets on the field. 

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40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Alright.

 

  East is wrapped up tight All Right.
   Right off the bat i would expect Woods to be used on pick plays, quick hitters over the LB, and seam routes. In line blocking, not much anytime soon. This guy is made for pass catching NOW. 

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I see a ton of people sleeping on Jelani Woods, but this guy is different and will be the Colts #1 TE by the end of the season. Unlike Carson, Matt Ryan will be able to utilize the TE spot and have the ability to get the ball into the hands of a guy like Jelani Woods. This guy will be a household name across the league by the time the season ends.

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On 6/22/2022 at 8:40 PM, CR91 said:

 

I don't understand how you think I'm setting high expectations. All I said was 400 yards. That is not high expectation. 

For a rookie TE who looks to be the TE2 and all the other receiving mouths to feed on what is a more run-based offense....that is not just a high but an extremely unrealistic expectation. There are starting TEs on teams with no competition at TE who don't get that.  

 

Nothing against the guy but IMO drafting a rookie TE high was not the right move here at all. Ballard should have gone after an established FA guy like Hooper or whatever. With Ryan we are in WIN NOW mode and as stated, rookie TEs usually don't do much.

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12 hours ago, jonjon said:

For a rookie TE who looks to be the TE2 and all the other receiving mouths to feed on what is a more run-based offense....that is not just a high but an extremely unrealistic expectation. There are starting TEs on teams with no competition at TE who don't get that.  

 

Nothing against the guy but IMO drafting a rookie TE high was not the right move here at all. Ballard should have gone after an established FA guy like Hooper or whatever. With Ryan we are in WIN NOW mode and as stated, rookie TEs usually don't do much.

 

You honestly expect Woods will get outsnapped by MAC?

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12 hours ago, jonjon said:

For a rookie TE who looks to be the TE2 and all the other receiving mouths to feed on what is a more run-based offense....that is not just a high but an extremely unrealistic expectation. There are starting TEs on teams with no competition at TE who don't get that.  

 

Nothing against the guy but IMO drafting a rookie TE high was not the right move here at all. Ballard should have gone after an established FA guy like Hooper or whatever. With Ryan we are in WIN NOW mode and as stated, rookie TEs usually don't do much.

 

  We are not in a win now mode! We are in a learn how to play together in a new D mode, and a developing a young receiving unit with their new QB mode. It should be a fun season watching a lot of good players competing hard.
  Woods was drafted to be a TE1 HIGH end receiver, of which we do not have another. He was a great choice to fill a huge need.
  I would expect him to have some fairly long gainers so 500+ yards is very likely.

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Mo Allie Cox is TE1.   
 

Jelani Woods is TE2.  
 

Says pretty much…..   EVERYONE. 
 

It may not always be that way, but that’s where things are to start the season. 

 

Most of the early projected depth charts have had Mo #1, and Granson #2.

I originally assumed it would be MAC and JW, but I also thought he'd be more advanced in areas. 

It's early though. If Woods can't get the blocking down though, I just don't see a ton of early for him. 

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4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Most of the early projected depth charts have had Mo #1, and Granson #2.

I originally assumed it would be MAC and JW, but I also thought he'd be more advanced in areas. 

It's early though. If Woods can't get the blocking down though, I just don't see a ton of early for him. 


I think Granson is the F.   I think Cox is the backup Y.     How each is used remains to be seen.   
 

I was trying to convey to one poster who seems to think Woods is TE1, which I’ve seen nowhere.  

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23 hours ago, CR91 said:

You honestly expect Woods will get outsnapped by MAC?

Initially at least, yeah. Over the course of the year, who knows...I do know that rookie TEs usually don't make much of an impact, and guys selected 3d round or later almost never do. 

 

  

23 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

  We are not in a win now mode! We are in a learn how to play together in a new D mode, and a developing a young receiving unit with their new QB mode. It should be a fun season watching a lot of good players competing hard.
  Woods was drafted to be a TE1 HIGH end receiver, of which we do not have another. He was a great choice to fill a huge need.
  I would expect him to have some fairly long gainers so 500+ yards is very likely.

You can't be serious. Talented QB near the end of his career = win now mode. And there is no way Woods sniffs 500. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Initially at least, yeah. Over the course of the year, who knows...I do know that rookie TEs usually don't make much of an impact, and guys selected 3d round or later almost never do. 

 

  

You can't be serious. Talented QB near the end of his career = win now mode. And there is no way Woods sniffs 500. 

 

 

 

Jesus you guys are acting like I said 1000 yards and 10 tds. It's 25 yards a game for crying out loud

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16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


I think Granson is the F.   I think Cox is the backup Y.     How each is used remains to be seen.   
 

I was trying to convey to one poster who seems to think Woods is TE1, which I’ve seen nowhere.  

Understood. 

I'm looking at it purely from a snap count perspective in terms of 1, 2, or 3. At this point, I'd say it's Mo, Granson, Woods.

 

And I'd add that I don't know what to call Granson yet. On his use though, I'd call him a hybrid. 

If you look at his route participation last season, it was only 14%.

If you look at Mo's route participation, it was 42.8%.

Doyle's was 46.8%

 

And all them had roughly the same % of snaps from the slot. 

 

So, those numbers would suggest Granson was closer to a Y, than a U or Flex (at this moment), given his routes run vs snaps last season. And it also tells us that all the TEs were asked to block. So honestly, I don't know what to expect. Reich simply hasn't given WRs or TEs a pass on blocking. And neither Granson or Woods had consistent hands in OTAs so far. Hope both take big steps forward before, or during TC. 

 

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MACs career rec+yards:

 

2018: 7 rec for 133 yards

2019: 8/93

2020: 31/394

2021: 24/316

 

I think expecting Woods to get 400-500 yards as a rookie is really optimistic. 
 

Now, MAC was undrafted and propably had more work to do to get ready for the NFL, but in year 4 he still hasn’t broken 400 yards. He’s TE1 now so will definitely see more targets, but even Doyle never broke 700 yards in his career. So, yeah…

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

MACs career rec+yards:

 

2018: 7 rec for 133 yards

2019: 8/93

2020: 31/394

2021: 24/316

 

I think expecting Woods to get 400-500 yards as a rookie is really optimistic. 
 

Now, MAC was undrafted and propably had more work to do to get ready for the NFL, but in year 4 he still hasn’t broken 400 yards. He’s TE1 now so will definitely see more targets, but even Doyle never broke 700 yards in his career. So, yeah…

 

MAC was a basketball project, so they signed him knowing he'd take time. If it didn't work out, not much lost. 

 

His first two years on the roster (he was injured and on the PS in 2017) were also on a team with and unquestioned starter (Doyle, who had 2017 and 2019 Pro Bowl years), and Ebron (who was Pro Bowl in 2018). So wasn't going to get a lot of opportunity. 

 

So Woods probably has a clearer path to PT that when Mo joined Indy. Just depends on how much he improves as a blocker, or how much Reich is willing to turn a blind eye to his blocking deficiencies. 

 

But I agree that 400-500 is overly optimistic though. If I had to guess, I'd say 200-300. 

 

 

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