Ryan's impact to our offensive scheme. How different will it be???

[2006Coltsbestever]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Agree for the most part. But RPOs don't really require a QB to run. Just decide to hand it off or pass. But like I said, it limits the OL (they must run block) and limits the reads. So I can see it used on short yardage situations so that Ryan can choose based on alignment. Just depends really on the D. If a D doesn't disguise a lot, I'd go RPO in short yardage. If they do disguise a lot, I'd motion a RB or WR to make the D tip their hat, then either run the play or audible to the best play. 

Great thing about Matt is, he has seen it all even at the highest level having played in a SB. I have a feeling Hines is going to have a huge year.

[DougDew]

On 6/6/2022 at 10:44 PM, EastStreet said:

Regardless, I'm liking the growing feeling of Ryan becoming a big part in the offensive strategy. He's smart like Rivers with a livelier arm. 

I've wanted Ryan in this O since Luck retired, so I'm glad to hear positive things. 

 

Its what the O needs, IMO.  An aside, Luck's athleticism and arm strength were a plus, but I'll take Rivers' and Ryan's QB brain just a wee bit over Luck's.  Rivers with a livelier arm and a bit more escapability is what the O needs. 

 

A QB should change the plays at the LOS after first understanding what he sees...How does the sideline play caller know how the D will line up?  The OC tracking defensive patterns and tendencies only goes so far.  It doesn't help much when the QB is looking directly at a particular defensive alignment against an offense's called play.  The QB needs to know where to throw it or change the play.

[DougDew]

On 6/7/2022 at 6:47 AM, Myles said:

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over * the play caller.  

Play calling and decision making is not a one-man show...maybe it is if you're Sean McVay but that's a high bar to set for a standard.  The QB has to contribute to the game plan and then to the presnap decision making.  I think Wentz probably fell short in both areas.  The point is that Ryan will not be locked into a given play, and will bring his experience to the table when forming strategy.  Either Wentz did not have the liberty or he did not have the vision to properly see the defense pre-snap, and, his comments gave me the feeling that he wasn't that interested in bringing strategic vision to the game plan discussions or to the offense.

 

I don't recall people having such a fit over the play calling with Rivers.  We lacked long passes but that was also a factor of Rivers' arm and TY's age.  They could do it, but that's all we had for the long passes, and age just limits how much you can do during a game or a season.

[Smoke317]

On 6/7/2022 at 6:40 PM, Superman said:

 

I agree, and I said so at the time. Another situation was the second(?) Titans game where JT didn't get nearly enough touches, especially with a big lead early in the game. Reich has moments where he seems really stubborn as a play caller, especially forcing the run, and then other situations like the Bucs game, and it doesn't make sense. If the QB is checking or always taking the pass in RPOs, then fix it before it's way out of hand. In the Bucs game it took Nelson speaking up, and I'm glad he did, but it shouldn't have gone that long.

 

But my initial point was that I don't think the QB needs to fix Reich going away from the run. If anything the opposite is probably true.

 

I think Ryan will be a more stable, consistent, and reliable player for the Colts than Wentz was, and I think as the season goes on, Reich's trust in Ryan will have grown. Last year, I think Reich's trust in Wentz shrank dramatically. 

Reich already has full trust in Ryan (as he should).  Frank was a lifelong backup to a great franchise QB in Jim Kelly.  He still quietly idolizes the QB1 position.  Knowing Frank, there will be a game where the passing game unnecessarily goes Star Wars.  That’s just what Frank does.  He did it with Luck coming off of the shoulder injury.  Rivers threw it 21 times vs 3 runs as we blew a 21 point 2nd half lead vs the Steelers.  Then we had Wentz and the Titans & Bucs games last year.  
 

Frank is gonna let his QB’s do what they want (until Ballard presses him to make adjustments).  The good news is Ryan has the humility to look at the analytics and see that this team is nearly unbeatable when we don’t go past a 64/36 percent pass/run ratio.  Keep a healthy balance and we can beat any team in this league.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

Reich already has full trust in Ryan (as he should).  Frank was a lifelong backup to a great franchise QB in Jim Kelly.  He still quietly idolizes the QB1 position.  Knowing Frank, there will be a game where the passing game unnecessarily goes Star Wars.  That’s just what Frank does.  He did it with Luck coming off of the shoulder injury.  Rivers threw it 21 times vs 3 runs as we blew a 21 point 2nd half lead vs the Steelers.  Then we had Wentz and the Titans & Bucs games last year.  
 

Frank is gonna let his QB’s do what they want (until Ballard presses him to make adjustments).  The good news is Ryan has the humility to look at the analytics and see that this team is nearly unbeatable when we don’t go past a 64/36 percent pass/run ratio.  Keep a healthy balance and we can beat any team in this league.

I agree Frank has unneeded Star Wars moments, but he's had the opposite too. 

The things that really bothered me for the last several years is passing a lot vs bad run Ds, and not passing vs bad pass Ds. 

Those were the punch you in the face frustrating things. And that's on top of just what I consider limited or conservative route schemes. 

 

But I don't really tie anything from 2018/Luck to Frank. He was a newb coach who hadn't called plays in a long while, and likely was gently told to not fix what isn't broke. Luck did pretty much what he wanted to that year from early on. 

 

[EastStreet]

I won't embed the tweet/vid directly due to language, but it's below in this article...

 

Tells an ATL WR (Sanu) to "Get F'XXX Set" lol. 

Similar to some of Manning's NSFW comments, and River's cleaner "daggummit" stuff....

 

The rest of the article is a regurgitation of stuff I've mentioned in this and other threads about him taking charge including Mo's comments I linked in one one of the OTA summaries. 

 

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2022/06/08/matt-ryan-bringing-famous-pre-snap-command-to-colts

[Myles]

13 hours ago, DougDew said:

Play calling and decision making is not a one-man show...maybe it is if you're Sean McVay but that's a high bar to set for a standard.  The QB has to contribute to the game plan and then to the presnap decision making.  I think Wentz probably fell short in both areas.  The point is that Ryan will not be locked into a given play, and will bring his experience to the table when forming strategy.  Either Wentz did not have the liberty or he did not have the vision to properly see the defense pre-snap, and, his comments gave me the feeling that he wasn't that interested in bringing strategic vision to the game plan discussions or to the offense.

 

I don't recall people having such a fit over the play calling with Rivers.  We lacked long passes but that was also a factor of Rivers' arm and TY's age.  They could do it, but that's all we had for the long passes, and age just limits how much you can do during a game or a season.

Right now, I go off of what I have seen and heard from Reich.   Also the history.   He was fired in San Diego for his play calling and was successful in Philly when he did not call the plays.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Right now, I go off of what I have seen and heard from Reich.   Also the history.   He was fired in San Diego for his play calling and was successful in Philly when he did not call the plays.  

You are way too hard on Frank. It is constant. He has his bad moments but I could nitpick every single coach in the league. Andy Reid and Eric Bienemy stunk it up in the AFC championship game. People in here are so focused on the Colts when they fail but it happens to every team. Tennessee website was imploding after the Cincinnati game. Frank has had some great calling games as in the Cards game, Pat's game, Bills game. Like every coach, he has his up and downs. No coach is perfect. Look at BB And McDonalds without Brady lol. Laughable.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

On 6/7/2022 at 4:13 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Matt Ryan is no doubt going to make a difference. As a football fan sometimes you just have that feeling that your team is going to big things based on the QB alone. I had that feeling with Luck, Rivers, and now Matt. With the roster we have and with Matt at QB, I would be surprised if we didn't win 11 or 12 games. 

I don't think a 37 year old Ryan is that much different than Rivers.  Ryan is a statue and with the questions at WR and LT I'm not so sure why anyone could be this bullish.  Ryan career is that of a stat collector without a lot of accolades from his peers.  I still think Irsay made Reich and Ballard move on too fast from Wentz.  We should have stuck with Wentz instead of making this move.  We'll know soon enough how good Ryan is now.  

[throwing BBZ]

19 hours ago, DougDew said:

I've wanted Ryan in this O since Luck retired, so I'm glad to hear positive things. 

 

Its what the O needs, IMO.  An aside, Luck's athleticism and arm strength were a plus, but I'll take Rivers' and Ryan's QB brain just a wee bit over Luck's.  Rivers with a livelier arm and a bit more escapability is what the O needs. 

 

A QB should change the plays at the LOS after first understanding what he sees...How does the sideline play caller know how the D will line up?  The OC tracking defensive patterns and tendencies only goes so far.  It doesn't help much when the QB is looking directly at a particular defensive alignment against an offense's called play.  The QB needs to know where to throw it or change the play.

 

 Manning went to the los with 2 plays and the ability to change both of those with last second calls.
 By NO MEANS was that all Manning. He had all those years with the same OC Tom Moore as we knowledgeable long timers know.

 WHINERS here have No Clue how good Frank will be with a really smart, physically capable QB, that has a full arsenal of weapons. Frank hasn't come near having that since he has been here. 
 Knock on wood for good health because Frank now has All the weapons, even though several are 1st and inexperienced 2nd year players. I BELIEVE these younguns will quickly carve out their niche to help us win this season.

[Myles]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are way too hard on Frank. It is constant. He has his bad moments but I could nitpick every single coach in the league. Andy Reid and Eric Bienemy stunk it up in the AFC championship game. People in here are so focused on the Colts when they fail but it happens to every team. Tennessee website was imploding after the Cincinnati game. Frank has had some great calling games as in the Cards game, Pat's game, Bills game. Like every coach, he has his up and downs. No coach is perfect. Look at BB And McDonalds without Brady lol. Laughable.

I'm just hard on his play calling because I want him to delegate the duties.   I want him involved in the game as a whole and not preoccupied.  When Taylor only ran 16 times he said that he didn't realize it was that few.  I want my HC to know what is happening in the game so he could direct what he wants to happen.   

[CoachLite]

I think Reich's poor play calling stems from poor strategic planning. His tactical plan is OK, but lacks relevance in the strategic arena. 

[Myles]

17 hours ago, CoachLite said:

I think Reich's poor play calling stems from poor strategic planning. His tactical plan is OK, but lacks relevance in the strategic arena. 

his scripted plays are fine.

[shasta519]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:42 AM, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I don't think a 37 year old Ryan is that much different than Rivers.  Ryan is a statue and with the questions at WR and LT I'm not so sure why anyone could be this bullish.  Ryan career is that of a stat collector without a lot of accolades from his peers.  I still think Irsay made Reich and Ballard move on too fast from Wentz.  We should have stuck with Wentz instead of making this move.  We'll know soon enough how good Ryan is now.  

I think calling Ryan a stat collector without a lot of accolades (he does have an MVP trophy) is wrong, but I do tend to roll my eyes when I hear how he’s the best QB since Luck.
 

That’s just disrespectful to my man Rivers, who put up a top 12 QB season, even in a juiced-up year due to COVID. I think people really take that performance for granted…and assume it’s Ryan’s floor or something. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I think calling Ryan a stat collector without a lot of accolades (he does have an MVP trophy) is wrong, but I do tend to roll my eyes when I hear how he’s the best QB since Luck.
 

That’s just disrespectful to my man Rivers, who put up a top 12 QB season, even in a juiced-up year due to COVID. I think people really take that performance for granted…and assume it’s Ryan’s floor or something. 

Actually in my top 25 of all-time I have Rivers ranked 22nd and Ryan at 25 - they both made it. Rivers career wise IMO is slightly better, JMO by eye test and other things - both are pretty even though. I think Ryan is the best QB since we had Luck because he is just younger than what Rivers was when he became a Colt. Had we got Rivers at 33 years old, I would've been so happy.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

I think calling Ryan a stat collector without a lot of accolades (he does have an MVP trophy) is wrong, but I do tend to roll my eyes when I hear how he’s the best QB since Luck.
 

That’s just disrespectful to my man Rivers, who put up a top 12 QB season, even in a juiced-up year due to COVID. I think people really take that performance for granted…and assume it’s Ryan’s floor or something. 

 

We certainly won't know until we see it. But if I had to bet, I'd bet Ryan's productivity is on par, or better than Rivers. 

Rivers had a better OL than likely Ryan will have, but I also think Ryan will be less restrained than Rivers. 

[DougDew]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:11 AM, Myles said:

Right now, I go off of what I have seen and heard from Reich.   Also the history.   He was fired in San Diego for his play calling and was successful in Philly when he did not call the plays.  

 

On 6/11/2022 at 4:13 PM, Myles said:

I'm just hard on his play calling because I want him to delegate the duties.   I want him involved in the game as a whole and not preoccupied.  When Taylor only ran 16 times he said that he didn't realize it was that few.  I want my HC to know what is happening in the game so he could direct what he wants to happen.   

The play caller's job is to analyze the next play.  He shouldn't waste time compiling statistical details to then compare play calling with backwards looking averages. 

 

[DougDew]

On 6/11/2022 at 11:01 AM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Manning went to the los with 2 plays and the ability to change both of those with last second calls.
 By NO MEANS was that all Manning. He had all those years with the same OC Tom Moore as we knowledgeable long timers know.

 WHINERS here have No Clue how good Frank will be with a really smart, physically capable QB, that has a full arsenal of weapons. Frank hasn't come near having that since he has been here. 
 Knock on wood for good health because Frank now has All the weapons, even though several are 1st and inexperienced 2nd year players. I BELIEVE these younguns will quickly carve out their niche to help us win this season.

It took PM a while to get to where he was, in the same offense for many years.  He had the same players for many years.  An offense clicks better when there is consistency from season to season amongst the players on the field. 

 

We've been consistently good at the LG, C and WILL LB spots though, LOL.

 

We will win the division when the pass rushers get sacks, and the WRs get TDs.  IOW, a team will win when the talent emerges where it needs to emerge.  The Colts might finally get there after 6 years. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 

The play caller's job is to analyze the next play.  He shouldn't waste time compiling statistical details to then compare play calling with backwards looking averages. 

 

The Head Coached job is to have an understanding of how the game is going in all aspects and to delegate accordingly.   

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

The Head Coached job is to have an understanding of how the game is going in all aspects and to delegate accordingly.   

I don't understand how the thought of the QB having RPO decisions, two play calls in the huddle, audible ability, and reading a defense and then choosing whom to throw to, can drive people to solely blame the guy calling plays on the sideline when a play does not work. 

 

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't understand how the thought of the QB having RPO decisions, two play calls in the huddle, audible ability, and reading a defense and then choosing whom to throw to, can drive people to solely blame the guy calling plays on the sideline when a play does not work. 

 

Really that case is not just about the play calling but if Reich cannot control his QB, that is also on him.   It wasn't the first time, if we are to believe that the bad play calling of the whole season was on Wentz.   Really choosing not to punt on 4-1 at midfield with a 14-0 lead against the Titans was a bad call for Reich.  

[DougDew]

34 minutes ago, Myles said:

Really that case is not just about the play calling but if Reich cannot control his QB, that is also on him.   It wasn't the first time, if we are to believe that the bad play calling of the whole season was on Wentz.   Really choosing not to punt on 4-1 at midfield with a 14-0 lead against the Titans was a bad call for Reich.  

Reich has made some bad decisions during games, but they all do.  I think Frank lost confidence in Wentz, and tried to manage it the best he could.  I can't blame a HC that's fighting the tendencies of the QB...the solution is to get a new QB.  I think Reich took the ball out of Wentz hands a lot as the season went on, and probably felt a bit helpless in what his options were.

 

Other than some people not liking the play call near the goal line in BUF, I don't remember this level of play calling complaints when Rivers, JB, and Luck were here.  Most of the complaints about the O during JB year was about JB's play and his $15M contract. 

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Reich has made some bad decisions during games, but they all do.  I think Frank lost confidence in Wentz, and tried to manage it the best he could.  I can't blame a HC that's fighting the tendencies of the QB...the solution is to get a new QB.  I think Reich took the ball out of Wentz hands a lot as the season went on, and probably felt a bit helpless in what his options were.

 

Other than some people not liking the play call near the goal line in BUF, I don't remember this level of play calling complaints when Rivers, JB, and Luck were here.  Most of the complaints about the O during JB year was about JB's play and his $15M contract. 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.  

[Superman]

56 minutes ago, Myles said:

Really that case is not just about the play calling but if Reich cannot control his QB, that is also on him.   It wasn't the first time, if we are to believe that the bad play calling of the whole season was on Wentz.   Really choosing not to punt on 4-1 at midfield with a 14-0 lead against the Titans was a bad call for Reich.  

 

I don't think Reich's play calling was bad all season. I have zero problem with 4th and 1 at midfield, almost without regard for the score; I think that's an automatic "go" in today's NFL, unless your QB/OL are completely overmatched. (Bigger problem in the Titans game was not giving JT the ball more often.)

 

I think Reich has moments when he seems to lose track of game flow, and doesn't correct a problem quickly enough, or doesn't capitalize on an opportunity when it presents itself. I actually think he's a pretty good play caller, but it comes at the expense of some of his bigger picture responsibilities. Even a great play caller gets direction from the HC during the game -- 'let's get the run going here,' 'let's slow it down,' 'let's speed it up,' 'let's get our 11 personnel on the field,' etc. My issues with his play calling are more about how it impacts his bigger responsibilities. He has a few bad stretches, but by no means is he a bad play caller.

[Superman]

This article speaks to the topic of the thread: https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/13/matt-ryan-colts-transition-romeo-crennel-mmqb 

 

Lots of flowery expectations, which we've heard before. Let's see how it works during the season, but it basically coincides with what I felt was lacking in 2021, and what I thought Ryan would bring to the table in 2022. Especially like the part about "D-T-A" -- decision making, timing, accuracy. 

 

I also like the part about consolidating concepts -- run fewer plays, run the better, fully weaponize all options in the play by working the progressions to the end. I think we tend to sub too much, especially in the second half, and I think sometimes we try to out-scheme teams when we could just out-execute them, especially when we have major weapons on offense (JT, especially; but also Hines, Pittman). 

 

So this article points out some specific areas where Ryan has the potential to be a positive impact on the offense this season. And that's without the intangible stuff that everyone speculates about.

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

This article speaks to the topic of the thread: https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/13/matt-ryan-colts-transition-romeo-crennel-mmqb 

 

Lots of flowery expectations, which we've heard before. Let's see how it works during the season, but it basically coincides with what I felt was lacking in 2021, and what I thought Ryan would bring to the table in 2022. Especially like the part about "D-T-A" -- decision making, timing, accuracy. 

 

I also like the part about consolidating concepts -- run fewer plays, run the better, fully weaponize all options in the play by working the progressions to the end. I think we tend to sub too much, especially in the second half, and I think sometimes we try to out-scheme teams when we could just out-execute them, especially when we have major weapons on offense (JT, especially; but also Hines, Pittman). 

 

So this article points out some specific areas where Ryan has the potential to be a positive impact on the offense this season. And that's without the intangible stuff that everyone speculates about.

Lots of talk in the Colts organization that Matt is old school and similar to Peyton. I remember him talking about that legendary championship game on how they beat the Patriots the hard way. No tricks, no silly formations. They just played good football. 
 

I’m ready to see this team play good fundamental football again. Leave the trick plays for that one rare moment once a season. 

[Boondoggle]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

This article speaks to the topic of the thread: https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/13/matt-ryan-colts-transition-romeo-crennel-mmqb 

Couple thoughts re: that article...

 

First is the fact that the staff has to adjust to a QB who reads quickly.  That has always been a strength of Ryan's game.  If your QB can't get through more than his first two options in real time then the back sitting down as a fourth read option is worthless and you might as well have him pass blocking.  So that first example they cite in the article is a great example of his impact to this roster.  Ryan tells the staff he thinks that's the way to go, the staff mulls it over and they make the adjustment.  The fact that Foles gets through those reads to validate it is great, and it demonstrates his value as a backup.  But the key in all this is that the staff believes the starter will be able to get to that fourth read when he's got a rush coming which was not likely to happen last year.

 

Second is the importance of the receivers.  There's a lot going on with those guys in relation to the QB and being on the same page with reading of coverages and option routes.  This is the one thing that might hurt Ryan a bit, I don't think it will be a big deal but he's going to have guys he doesn't fully trust out there running routes most likely with this young receiving corps.  The effect will be more questionable throws and maybe interceptions that might not be on the QB.

 

So I think it's possible Ballard brings in another vet type receiver at some point, maybe even after that last round of cuts.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Second is the importance of the receivers.  There's a lot going on with those guys in relation to the QB and being on the same page with reading of coverages and option routes.  This is the one thing that might hurt Ryan a bit, I don't think it will be a big deal but he's going to have guys he doesn't fully trust out there running routes most likely with this young receiving corps.  The effect will be more questionable throws and maybe interceptions that might not be on the QB.

 

So I think it's possible Ballard brings in another vet type receiver at some point, maybe even after that last round of cuts.

 

Unless someone gets hurt, or TY decides he really wants to come back, I think we're set there. And I think the next month before camp, plus camp, is Ryan's time to get comfortable with his WR corps. 

[sb41champs]

1.  Leadership on and off the field

2.  Experience

3.  Willingness to mentor others

4.  Accuracy

5.  Willingness to go thru his reads

6.  History of passing yardage and passing TDs excellence

[CoachLite]

On 6/12/2022 at 7:51 AM, Myles said:

his scripted plays are fine.

Scripted plays at the beginning of the game are a learning exercise for the coaches to determine KPIs (key performance indicators).