Ryan's impact to our offensive scheme. How different will it be???

[EastStreet]

Just how different will the offense be in 2022?

Hoping a lot. 

 

• Seen similar comments to the ones below about Ryan having a lot more input into the scheme and playbook. Also heard he's already changing plays at the LOS in both OTA weeks so far.
• I'm liking what we're all hearing about Hines given snaps at WR (actually lining up on the LOS). Ryan had a lot of success with Patterson, and I think both Hines and JT could easily be used similar. I'd love to see both guys out there, and frankly I'd love to see wrinkles with either at the LOS. 
• If BlueStable is correct about the playbook relevant to Patterson, I'd have to think Ryan wants more deep shot too. Yes please. 
• Same goes for deeper TE work at the 2nd and 3rd level. We saw great stuff from MAC deeper in a few games, then it just went poof, gone. 
• Not saying to shelve JT at all. Just need more balance. And we don't need to run the wheels off our best offensive weapon early in his career. 
• Regardless, I'm liking the growing feeling of Ryan becoming a big part in the offensive strategy. He's smart like Rivers with a livelier arm. 

 

 

[CR91]

Matt is definitely going to have a lot more control in terms of understanding defenses and line calls to get us into the best play. I always felt like Wentz was winging it like his arm can beat any defense no matter what they did which is weird because all you hear is how smart he is and yet can't read a blitz to save his life.

 

[EastStreet]

56 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Matt is definitely going to have a lot more control in terms of understanding defenses and line calls to get us into the best play. I always felt like Wentz was winging it like his arm can beat any defense no matter what they did which is weird because all you hear is how smart he is and yet can't read a blitz to save his life.

 

 

I agree that Ryan is a more seasoned QB, and also agree Wentz was too confident of his arm to an extent. But also know Wentz had a bottom 3 pass pro OL, sub par WR rotation, and likely didn't have the opportunity that Ryan has to change the play book to suit his strengths.

 

I really don't care to make this about Wentz either. I'm just happy Ryan seems to be empowered to change what has been a very conservative offense the last 3 years. 

[CR91]

35 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I agree that Ryan is a more seasoned QB, and also agree Wentz was too confident of his arm to an extent. But also know Wentz had a bottom 3 pass pro OL, sub par WR rotation, and likely didn't have the opportunity that Ryan has to change the play book to suit his strengths.

 

I really don't care to make this about Wentz either. I'm just happy Ryan seems to be empowered to change what has been a very conservative offense the last 3 years. 

 

I can agree with that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Matt Ryan is no doubt going to make a difference. As a football fan sometimes you just have that feeling that your team is going to big things based on the QB alone. I had that feeling with Luck, Rivers, and now Matt. With the roster we have and with Matt at QB, I would be surprised if we didn't win 11 or 12 games. 

[AwesomeAustin]

I expect a lot of pre snap motion to allow Ryan to read the defense. I don’t see Hines being the focal point in the offense but will be moved around to exploit matchups if it presents itself. We will see how well this coaching staff develops WRs bc the QB will not be the issue. Ryan will consistently put players in position to succeed. This won’t be a highlight offense but probably more death by 1000 cuts kinda deal. We should see a lot of gassed defenses come the 4th quarter where JT can put games out of reach. 

[Myles]

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over * the play caller.  

[Solid84]

20 minutes ago, Myles said:

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over * the play caller.  

I hope Ryan will limit Reich’s more head-scratching decisions (like 26+ consecutive passes etc.) by changing plays at the line of scrimmage. 

[Myles]

59 minutes ago, Myles said:

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over * the play caller.  

I must have messed up.   What I thought I typed was:

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over as the play caller.  

[MikeCurtis]

I have high hopes

 

Accurate passers assist greatly in YAC

 

Hitting a guy in stride, makes huge "chunk" plays possible

 

"Insanely Accurate" I believe what FR observed about Ryan

 

Barring injuries, I think we will have a top 4-5 team in AFC 

[lollygagger8]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I hope Ryan will limit Reich’s more head-scratching decisions (like 26+ consecutive passes etc.) by changing plays at the line of scrimmage. 

 

Ryan will certainly make Reich look better 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I must have messed up.   What I thought I typed was:

I have high hopes but Reich has to win me over as the play caller.  

You added an s to the as 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I hope Ryan will limit Reich’s more head-scratching decisions (like 26+ consecutive passes etc.) by changing plays at the line of scrimmage. 

 

I think there were plenty of indications that Wentz either checked out of run plays, or read RPOs as passes more than he should have, specifically during that 26 pass play stretch. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I think there were plenty of indications that Wentz either checked out of run plays, or read RPOs as passes more than he should have, specifically during that 26 pass play stretch. 

My guess is Reich gave Wentz way too much leeway to change plays. No way would Reich call 26 pass plays in a row knowing his history. I just have a hard time believing that. Reich is a run 1st type of coach. Reich trusted Wentz and liked him way too much as a friend, JMO but it was a mistake. Matt Ryan should have a lot of leeway because he is Matt Ryan (a Hall of Fame QB and former MVP/SB runner up) and he won't run even 10 pass plays in a row IMO. 

[gspdx]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

My guess is Reich gave Wentz way too much leeway to change plays. No way would Reich call 26 pass plays in a row knowing his history. I just have a hard time believing that. Reich is a run 1st type of coach. Reich trusted Wentz and liked him way too much as a friend, JMO but it was a mistake. Matt Ryan should have a lot of leeway because he is Matt Ryan (a Hall of Fame QB and former MVP/SB runner up) and he won't run even 10 pass plays in a row IMO. 

 

Would be surprised to see Ryan running many RPOs.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, gspdx said:

 

Would be surprised to see Ryan running many RPOs.

I agree. I think Ryan will call several audibles though but If we have a stretch where we throw more than 10 times in a row I would be shocked. Only way that happens is if we are down by 14 or more in the 4th Qtr. That 26 throw stretch was mindboggling. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think there were plenty of indications that Wentz either checked out of run plays, or read RPOs as passes more than he should have, specifically during that 26 pass play stretch. 

 

I believe even Reich alluded to it happening. Clearly something changed because Wentz threw the ball far less in the latter half of the season.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, gspdx said:

 

Would be surprised to see Ryan running many RPOs.

 

I think that is right.

 

According to PFR, he has 69 pass attempts using RPO.

 

In non-RPO, he has 7,931 passing attempts.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, gspdx said:

 

Would be surprised to see Ryan running many RPOs.

 

Why wouldn't Ryan run RPOs?

[gspdx]

43 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why wouldn't Ryan run RPOs?

 

Not sure I would expect to see a 37 year old - maybe not as athletic - QB running the ball much.  Didn't say none, but I would be surprised if it's a significant part of the scheme.  

 

Ryan is a great pocket QB.  I think they will play to his strengths.

 

Just my opinion.

[Boondoggle]

I expect they'll be more efficient at staying ahead of the chains, which should result in a climb in third down conversion rate and more sustained drives.  Colts were 12th last season on third down, which was about right given the combination of a great RB and decent but not great weapons in the pass game.  Figure they'll be top ten there which is a real nice start for them.

 

I also think redzone scoring will improve.  Colts were 19th in this critical area (weighed by percentage of TDs) which to me is unacceptable when you have a guy like Taylor.  This was pretty bad last year so my guess is this is the biggest difference with Ryan, which results in more scoring of course.

 

Overall I have zero real concerns with the offense.  Taylor is probably going to have his best season yet, because he'll be harder to stop with more threat at QB.  In terms of whether they're ready to climb into the elite offense range, that comes down to some guys stepping up big as receiving threats.  But all my concerns lie on the other side of the ball.

[Superman]

Just now, gspdx said:

 

Not sure I would expect to see a 37 year old - maybe not as athletic - QB running the ball much.  Didn't say none, but I would be surprised if it's a significant part of the scheme.  

 

Ryan is a great pocket QB.  I think they will play to his strengths.

 

Just my opinion.

 

The QB's role in an RPO is as a passer, not a runner. It's not read option, it's run-pass option. Either you hand it off to the RB, or you throw it. Out of 84 charted RPO plays in 2021, Wentz ran 7 times, and I'd be willing to bet those were read option plays that PFR is calling RPO. We ran RPO with Rivers, and I think we'll continue to run RPO with Ryan. I don't expect us to run very many called QB run plays though.

[PRnum1]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just how different will the offense be in 2022?

Hoping a lot. 

 

• Seen similar comments to the ones below about Ryan having a lot more input into the scheme and playbook. Also heard he's already changing plays at the LOS in both OTA weeks so far.
• I'm liking what we're all hearing about Hines given snaps at WR (actually lining up on the LOS). Ryan had a lot of success with Patterson, and I think both Hines and JT could easily be used similar. I'd love to see both guys out there, and frankly I'd love to see wrinkles with either at the LOS. 
• If BlueStable is correct about the playbook relevant to Patterson, I'd have to think Ryan wants more deep shot too. Yes please. 
• Same goes for deeper TE work at the 2nd and 3rd level. We saw great stuff from MAC deeper in a few games, then it just went poof, gone. 
• Not saying to shelve JT at all. Just need more balance. And we don't need to run the wheels off our best offensive weapon early in his career. 
• Regardless, I'm liking the growing feeling of Ryan becoming a big part in the offensive strategy. He's smart like Rivers with a livelier arm. 

 

 

That is great news that Ryan understands Franks offense enough to make changes or add new wrinkles.  Changing 20 percent is alot.

 

Ryan played under Kyle Shanahan which uses much of the same short passing West Coast offense that Franks offense is based on.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the route trees, play terminology/language and blocking schemes are the same between the two.

 

Ryan took the Falcons all the way to the Superbowl using that offense.

 

We've got to get Hines on the field.  He's too explosive to stay on the sidelines.

[gspdx]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

The QB's role in an RPO is as a passer, not a runner. It's not read option, it's run-pass option. Either you hand it off to the RB, or you throw it. Out of 84 charted RPO plays in 2021, Wentz ran 7 times, and I'd be willing to bet those were read option plays that PFR is calling RPO. We ran RPO with Rivers, and I think we'll continue to run RPO with Ryan. I don't expect us to run very many called QB run plays though.

 

Yes - that all makes sense.  And what I meant.  Don't expect to see Ryan running.  Using the RPO term wrong.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

That is great news that Ryan understands Franks offense enough to make changes or add new wrinkles.  Changing 20 percent is alot.

 

Ryan played under Kyle Shanahan which uses much of the same short passing West Coast offense that Franks offense is based on.

 

Ryan took the Falcons all the way to the Superbowl using that offense.

 

We've got to get Hines on the field.  He's too explosive to stay on the sidelines.

Matt is a lot like Rivers thankfully, very smart. He knows how to use his weapons. Both QB's are Hall of Fame material. Wentz just wasn't the right fit.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would let Matt Ryan run the offense for the most part. Calling plays at times and audibles if Frank does call a play and he see's something different at the line. Matt has been in the league for 14 years so I would trust him like I did Peyton. That is high praise but I would. Matt has won big games and has seen it all. 

[Boondoggle]

18 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Ryan took the Falcons all the way to the Superbowl using that offense.

 

He was definitely at his best with that run game marriage Shanahan provided.  So there is definitely every reason to think he'll do well in Indy, his arm isn't what it was but he's still got enough.  They just need to play to his strengths which will also require some of these weapons to step up.

 

Also this is where Reich has a lot of value.  He's very good at shaping the offense to his players.  So the offense favors the QB and the offensive game design is going to favor him too, plus he's got Taylor in the backfield.

 

Taylor should get noticeably more pass game involvement this year.  Ryan is very good at hitting guys underneath on time with consistency.  Taylor should definitely benefit there.

[Solid84]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think there were plenty of indications that Wentz either checked out of run plays, or read RPOs as passes more than he should have, specifically during that 26 pass play stretch. 

That’s definitely possible, but if that’s what happened at some point it had to be Reich’s responsibility to stop the madness and draw line... Well before reaching 26 consecutive passes. 

I think Ryan has a much better grasp of running an offense than Wentz and reads defenses better too. His leadership is near Peyton Manning level. All of this has to add extra wins for us. 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

That’s definitely possible, but if that’s what happened at some point it had to be Reich’s responsibility to stop the madness and draw line... Well before reaching 26 consecutive passes. 

I think Ryan has a much better grasp of running an offense than Wentz and reads defenses better too. His leadership is near Peyton Manning level. All of this has to add extra wins for us. 

I completely agree, it will be nice to have another cerebral  QB.....while I was glad that Wentz was aquired, it became evident, that he had a million dollar arm with a ten cent head.  I expect more of a chess game, ala, PM and Luck.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

That’s definitely possible, but if that’s what happened at some point it had to be Reich’s responsibility to stop the madness and draw line... Well before reaching 26 consecutive passes. 

I think Ryan has a much better grasp of running an offense than Wentz and reads defenses better too. His leadership is near Peyton Manning level. All of this has to add extra wins for us. 

 

I agree, and I said so at the time. Another situation was the second(?) Titans game where JT didn't get nearly enough touches, especially with a big lead early in the game. Reich has moments where he seems really stubborn as a play caller, especially forcing the run, and then other situations like the Bucs game, and it doesn't make sense. If the QB is checking or always taking the pass in RPOs, then fix it before it's way out of hand. In the Bucs game it took Nelson speaking up, and I'm glad he did, but it shouldn't have gone that long.

 

But my initial point was that I don't think the QB needs to fix Reich going away from the run. If anything the opposite is probably true.

 

I think Ryan will be a more stable, consistent, and reliable player for the Colts than Wentz was, and I think as the season goes on, Reich's trust in Ryan will have grown. Last year, I think Reich's trust in Wentz shrank dramatically. 

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

That is great news that Ryan understands Franks offense enough to make changes or add new wrinkles.  Changing 20 percent is alot.

 

Ryan played under Kyle Shanahan which uses much of the same short passing West Coast offense that Franks offense is based on.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the route trees, play terminology/language and blocking schemes are the same between the two.

 

Ryan took the Falcons all the way to the Superbowl using that offense.

 

We've got to get Hines on the field.  He's too explosive to stay on the sidelines.

 

Reich's O has been pretty conservative and simple, and very heavy on short possession type tosses to the sideline. 

 

Shanahan makes Ds defend every inch of the field, and loves exploiting the seam (which it feels like Reich ignored). Shanahan also is known for highly customizing his weekly game plan to exploit the opponents scheme or individual weaknesses. I've seen articles that say he'll "install" as much as 60% every week depending on the opponent. Reich on the other hand, stays meat and potatoes with his "multiples"...

 

So in short, hope Ryan is bringing more Shanahan's seam and deep stuff, and also the weekly specific wrinkles ongoing. 

 

[EastStreet]

Pierce on Ryan today....

 

“He’s a great leader,” Pierce said. “He could basically run this offense and this team by himself. He’s that good of a leader. It’s pretty cool to see.”

[EastStreet]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:51 PM, Superman said:

 

Why wouldn't Ryan run RPOs?

 

Not sure I've ever seen Ryan in the top half of QB RPO play frequency. 

He has been near the top of play action frequency the last couple of years. 

In short, it's just not been his game. 

[EastStreet]

Not that I agree with some of his reasoning/comments, but Ryan has always liked to throw to the seam, so in that I think our seam targets will go up a bunch... The reports of Ryan changing the play book already by 20% early in OTAs I'm guessing leads to both increases of seam and deep shots. 

 

I'd say last season, we simply had a lack of talent running the seam, and low frequency of guys like Pittman between the numbers. Pitt's slot % dropped drastically. 

 

 

[PCice]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:47 PM, Boondoggle said:

I expect they'll be more efficient at staying ahead of the chains, which should result in a climb in third down conversion rate and more sustained drives.  Colts were 12th last season on third down, which was about right given the combination of a great RB and decent but not great weapons in the pass game.  Figure they'll be top ten there which is a real nice start for them.

 

I also think redzone scoring will improve.  Colts were 19th in this critical area (weighed by percentage of TDs) which to me is unacceptable when you have a guy like Taylor.  This was pretty bad last year so my guess is this is the biggest difference with Ryan, which results in more scoring of course.

 

Overall I have zero real concerns with the offense.  Taylor is probably going to have his best season yet, because he'll be harder to stop with more threat at QB.  In terms of whether they're ready to climb into the elite offense range, that comes down to some guys stepping up big as receiving threats.  But all my concerns lie on the other side of the ball.

As a lifelong Falcons Fan, I am very excited to see what Ryan can accomplish with JT behind him. In 2007 the Falcons went 4-12 with the team in shambles. Vick goes to jail and first year coach Petrino quitting mid season. 2008 the Falcons added Ryan in first round, along with Michael Turner at RB (FA) and Mike Smith as head coach. Ryan’s first regular season pass was a 62 yard TD to Michael Jenkins on their way to a 10-6 record and a playoff birth. 2nd year receiver Roddy White became a star by the end of 2008 and the trifecta of Ryan/ Turner/White led them to their 1st back to back winning seasons in Falcons history! ( ending up with 6 winning seasons in a row, with 5 playoff births).

 I am excited to see what Ryan can accomplish with a great RB and a better OLine and defense than he has had since 2016. 

[Boondoggle]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:57 PM, PRnum1 said:

Ryan played under Kyle Shanahan which uses much of the same short passing West Coast offense that Franks offense is based on.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the route trees, play terminology/language and blocking schemes are the same between the two.

 

Ryan took the Falcons all the way to the Superbowl using that offense.

Each of these guys in that modern WCO group have their own spin on it.  Shanahan has veered off on his own with the fullback usage and backfield interchangeability with WR/RB and offense designed to drive the field with underneath routes and RAC.  Same offense as McVay, for example, in that it's WCO but vastly different in approach, as McVay uses receivers as his lead blockers and likes to vertically stretch the field.

 

I'd say Frank is closer to McVay philosophically.  But I don't think he is in either of their classes as an offensive mind.  Frank's good, but I don't think he's elite.  His greatest strength is his ability to adjust to his players.  Which is to say he has a way of getting good production out of almost anything he's given.  He's a big part of why the Eagles won it all with Foles, he was at the heart of that, along with an underrated defense.

 

So for me...  I'm interested in seeing how Frank handles the vertical stuff with Ryan.  His approach is going to tell us what he thinks of his arm.  I don't think he can line up and do what the Rams did last year with Stafford.  Ryan doesn't have that kind of arm.  You can take shots and let Ryan lay it out there, but the meat and potatoes need to be intermediate range where Ryan's accuracy can shine.  Now normally the issue with a QB like him is that corners can cheat on the deep outs (i.e. shrink the field), knowing they're a lot more unlikely, but defenses will still struggle because they have to deal with Taylor.  That play action should suck up the LBs and give Ryan the space he needs.

[Superman]

15 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Not sure I've ever seen Ryan in the top half of QB RPO play frequency. 

He has been near the top of play action frequency the last couple of years. 

In short, it's just not been his game. 

 

I only checked PFR, and their RPO charting only goes back three seasons, so I don't know. And to be honest I don't fully trust their charting, I think we used a lot more RPO over these last three years than they're listing. 

 

And I think Reich really stepped it up with RPO last season. That might be about going from Rivers to Wentz, but it might also be an evolution of the offense. Either way, my point was more that there's no reason Matt Ryan can't run RPO. And I think his proficiency pre and post snap makes it a good weapon.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I only checked PFR, and their RPO charting only goes back three seasons, so I don't know. And to be honest I don't fully trust their charting, I think we used a lot more RPO over these last three years than they're listing. 

 

And I think Reich really stepped it up with RPO last season. That might be about going from Rivers to Wentz, but it might also be an evolution of the offense. Either way, my point was more that there's no reason Matt Ryan can't run RPO. And I think his proficiency pre and post snap makes it a good weapon.

 

Not saying he won't run RPO at all, just don't seeing it a lot. If you look at the heavy RPO teams, it's a who's who of mostly mobile guys.

 

Also, given the OL blocks for the run on RPOs (which can hurt if it turns out to be a pass), and the passing reads are typically limited to the front side (because it typically has to be a quick pass), I just don't see a ton of value of RPOs with a QB like Ryan.

 

I can certainly see it on short yardage situations though. Just not as a bread and butter piece. Given Ryan's traits, I'd want more play action, and more WR motion to help him identify the D. Hearing already he's changing plays a lot at the LOS. I'd assume that, and the reported changes to the play book, means we're trying to adapt to his strengths. 

[Boondoggle]

58 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I just don't see a ton of value of RPOs with a QB like Ryan.

Agreed.  RPO is something you run when your QB can't read quickly enough or doesn't know the offense well enough to execute it fully.  You can also add it if your QB offers superior run threat and can convert key downs with his legs or just as a surprise when you have an undisciplined edge that doesn't contain well.

 

But they're not going to need to do any of that with Ryan and he wouldn't do it well anyway.  And there's no way you'd want to risk him.  Can you imagine the postgame visit with Irsay if his new QB is gonna miss time due to trying to win a four yard snap with his legs?  I wouldn't want to be in that room, unless it's as a fly on the wall.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Agreed.  RPO is something you run when your QB can't read quickly enough or doesn't know the offense well enough to execute it fully.  You can also add it if your QB offers superior run threat and can convert key downs with his legs or just as a surprise when you have an undisciplined edge that doesn't contain well.

 

But they're not going to need to do any of that with Ryan and he wouldn't do it well anyway.  And there's no way you'd want to risk him.  Can you imagine the postgame visit with Irsay if his new QB is gonna miss time due to trying to win a four yard snap with his legs?  I wouldn't want to be in that room, unless it's as a fly on the wall.

 

Agree for the most part. But RPOs don't really require a QB to run. Just decide to hand it off or pass. But like I said, it limits the OL (they must run block) and limits the reads. So I can see it used on short yardage situations so that Ryan can choose based on alignment. Just depends really on the D. If a D doesn't disguise a lot, I'd go RPO in short yardage. If they do disguise a lot, I'd motion a RB or WR to make the D tip their hat, then either run the play or audible to the best play.