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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Happy Season 4 GIF by The Simpsons- ok. It is comical how old school Colts fans bag on guys like Bob, Leonard, and Luck but kneel for Bert Jones. Tell me about Bert Jones?

 

Actually, I've always thought what a shame Bert Jones career was cut short because of injuries, less than stellar coaching, etc.... 

But lately I've done a 90° turn on this. Though I'll always believe he was one of the greatest, he was similar to Luck in a way. I personally don't think their talent, charisma, love for the game was equal BUT THEY BOTH PLAYED RECKLESS and in doing so let their team down by not playing safer..A franchise QB is supposed to be available and not take off and take on Linebackers. That's just stupid..The best ability is availability. 

And my hero, my All Time favorite Bert Jones was as guilty as Luck.

 

 

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6 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Actually, I've always thought what a shame Bert Jones career was cut short because of injuries, less than stellar coaching, etc.... 

But lately I've done a 90° turn on this. Though I'll always believe he was one of the greatest, he was similar to Luck in a way. I personally don't think their talent, charisma, love for the game was equal BUT THEY BOTH PLAYED RECKLESS and in doing so let their team down by not playing safer..A franchise QB is supposed to be available and not take off and take on Linebackers. That's just stupid..The best ability is availability. 

And my hero, my All Time favorite Bert Jones was as guilty as Luck.

 

 

Both Luck and Jones were great talents. It is too bad we couldn't see these guys play for 15 years. Sometimes it just doesn't work out.

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23 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Actually, I've always thought what a shame Bert Jones career was cut short because of injuries, less than stellar coaching, etc.... 

But lately I've done a 90° turn on this. Though I'll always believe he was one of the greatest, he was similar to Luck in a way. I personally don't think their talent, charisma, love for the game was equal BUT THEY BOTH PLAYED RECKLESS and in doing so let their team down by not playing safer..A franchise QB is supposed to be available and not take off and take on Linebackers. That's just stupid..The best ability is availability. 

And my hero, my All Time favorite Bert Jones was as guilty as Luck.

 

 

Bert, like Luck, had nards....sometimes having nards gets you, though they both had inferior offensive lines for most of their careers....so blaming them for their courage is kind of silly.

 

This old qoute reminds me of them, "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero but one".  Bert will always be my hero....

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Wait a minute.

 

Are you all telling me that

 

Your leg bone connected to your knee bone
Your knee bone connected to your thigh bone
Your thigh bone connected to your hip bone
Your hip bone connected to your back bone

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45 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Wait a minute.

 

Are you all telling me that

 

Your leg bone connected to your knee bone
Your knee bone connected to your thigh bone
Your thigh bone connected to your hip bone
Your hip bone connected to your back bone

 

Seams like the back bone is connected to the nerve thingy too lol.

 

Doesn't sound like Reich agrees though. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Seams like the back bone is connected to the nerve thingy too lol.

 

Doesn't sound like Reich agrees though. 

Reich will just call 20 straight pass plays instead of giving the best RB in the league the ball once Cracking Up Lol GIF by HULU. Although I don't think Matt Ryan will let that happen.

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3 hours ago, LiveAndLetAddai said:

Bert, like Luck, had nards....sometimes having nards gets you, though they both had inferior offensive lines for most of their careers....so blaming them for their courage is kind of silly.

 

This old qoute reminds me of them, "A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero but one".  Bert will always be my hero....

Andrew gave us 3 fantastic years from 2012-2014, and then in 2018 another. I will just cherish the memories. I have moved on now and love the fact we have Matt Ryan for at least 2 years. Regarding Bert Jones, his MVP season was spectacular.

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8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reich will just call 20 straight pass plays instead of giving the best RB in the league the ball once . Although I don't think Matt Ryan will let that happen.

 

Truly hope we don't see those manic game plans again this season. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Reich but he reminds of how Joe Maddon used to be with the Cubs, over think things when things are going good even.

Several big head scratchers over the years. 

Hope this year is different. 

Given Ryan's profile, I have more confidence in us doing the right things, and given the latitude to do what he thinks is best. 

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Several big head scratchers over the years. 

Hope this year is different. 

Given Ryan's profile, I have more confidence in us doing the right things, and given the latitude to do what he thinks is best. 

Yeah Matt Ryan is a different kind of breed that is for sure. He has a lot of Peyton traits from what I am noticing. His leadership stands out. I have always thought Matt was very good, great at times. Matt is in my top 25 QB's of all-time (around 25) with his accolades and stats, but lets just hope he has 2 or 3 more years left of the good-great play. I do love our chances this year with the team we have and Matt to win the division at worse, playoffs will be interesting. The damn AFC is loaded. If we were in the NFC we would probably win 12 games for sure, we still could, I have us at 11 as of now. 11 wins should win the division as long as we beat the Titans/have the tie break over them.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Matt Ryan is a different kind of breed that is for sure. He has a lot of Peyton traits from what I am noticing. His leadership stands out. I have always thought Matt was very good, great at times. Matt is in my top 25 QB's of all-time (around 25) with his accolades and stats, but lets just hope he has 2 or 3 more years left of the good-great play. I do love our chances this year with the team we have and Matt to win the division at worse, playoffs will be interesting. The damn AFC is loaded. If we were in the NFC we would probably win 12 games for sure, we still could, I have us at 11 as of now. 11 wins should win the division as long as we beat the Titans/have the tie break over them.

 

I think we get minimum two good years out of him. Let's us try and make a run. Hoping the timing, and the football gods smile on us, and everything comes together. I'm liking Gus's scheme more and more over Flus's. If both Ryan and D scheme changes go well, I like our chances. We have a ton of wild cards though. We're due some luck though lol. 

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think we get minimum two good years out of him. Let's us try and make a run. Hoping the timing, and the football gods smile on us, and everything comes together. I'm liking Gus's scheme more and more over Flus's. If both Ryan and D scheme changes go well, I like our chances. We have a ton of wild cards though. We're due some luck though lol. 

Yeah I think this season could be special, assuming Leonard and Nelson are 100% healthy. We have Taylor in his prime now, Pittman in year 3 should become that guy that catches around 100 passes, Hines is an awesome weapon, our D has a lot of talent too. Getting Matt Ryan changed everything, imagine if we would've signed someone like Trubisky or Mariota - this would've been me = Homer Simpson Smile GIF

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On 6/8/2022 at 12:36 PM, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

From his wife’s IG. If she isn’t lying he is already walking outside. 

 

 

 

I walked out of the hospital right after my back surgery. He likely had a microdiscectomy. Those are pretty quick and have a very tiny incision. Things still have to heal. I was told not to pick up anything heavier than a 5 gallon milk jug for weeks.  

 

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4 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I walked out of the hospital right after my back surgery. He likely had a microdiscectomy. Those are pretty quick and have a very tiny incision. Things still have to heal. I was told not to pick up anything heavier than a 5 gallon milk jug for weeks.  

 

Yeah he should be 100% in around 6 weeks, it will take that long but not the end of the world. My step-dad had something similar years ago and was 100% in around 2 months. Probably by late July. 

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6 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I walked out of the hospital right after my back surgery. He likely had a microdiscectomy. Those are pretty quick and have a very tiny incision. Things still have to heal. I was told not to pick up anything heavier than a 5 gallon milk jug for weeks.  

 

Either that or a nucleoplasty. Had an employee that did both over the years (had something else too later). Also some family that have had one of the other.

 

While they weren't playing sports immediately, they had very little to no pure down time. The guy who had both, IIRC, needed less time on the necleoplasty. Within 4-6 weeks of both, they felt 100%, but were told to take it easy for a total of 8-12. 

 

Guessing he'll be able to get back to conditioning quickly, just won't be able to do contact drills until late TC. I'm OK with that if that's the case. 

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13 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

So I just listened to what Reich said about Darius injury. It isn’t as ambiguous as media is making it sound. Sounds like the back issue was hurting the ankle rehab.

I agree the media might be playing it up, but I do believe there are some disconnects. 

Reich mentioned that the back impacted rehab of the ankle. Which is probably accurate, but not complete.

What it sounds like, from the stuff coming from Leonard, is that nerve issues could have impacted his functionality (like pushing off). Functionality issues definitely will impact rehab like Reich said, but they could also be a separate and distinct issue on their own. But all in all, Leonard's tweet seems to suggest he feels there's a disconnect, and he's looks to be going to a private doctor (not a team doctor). I'm sure they'll share med evals, and everyone will get on the same page sooner or later. 

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Microdiscectomy has 8-10% recuurency rate in NFL players.  This news isn't good no matter how the homers want to spin it.  Gronk has had three surgeries on same disk, JJ Watt had his recur, Farley had his recur, and Peyton also had his recur.   MLB position gernerates massive forces on the lumbar spine via tackling.  LB have highest risk of re-injury too.

 

METHODS

The authors identified publicly accessible data from a cohort of different types of professional players who received either a lumbar discectomy or a microdiscectomy. These records were identified through newspaper archives, injury reports, player profiles and press releases between 1993 through 2015. Fantasy and Wins Above Replacement (WAR) scores were calculated for each player.

RESULTS

A total of 38 professional players met study inclusion criteria. NFL players had the lowest return-to-play (RTP) at nine of 14 (64%). The RTP for NBA, NHL and MLB players were comparable with 6/7 (86%) vs 8/9 (89%) vs 7/8 (88%). NFL players had the lowest average career length after surgery at 34.8 months, while NBA players had the longest average career length at 48 months. MLB players on average required the longest time to return to presurgical level of performance (24 months) and required the longest average recovery time at 12 months.

CONCLUSIONS

Based on these results, the average performance of most elite athletes are likely to decrease after undergoing a lumbar discectomy. Although it appears that performance peaks in the initial years after the operation for some players, there was an overall long-term decline in this sample of elite athletes. Study limitations included small sample size, lack of controlling for possible confounding variables (e.g., age, etc.) and use of variable reporting sources. Additional studies with larger sample sizes and age-matched controls are needed to examine the effects of lumbar discectomy more comprehensively in elite athletes.

 

1. https://smrj.scholasticahq.com/article/30766-fantasy-points-associated-with-professional-athlete-performance-after-lumbar-discectomy-or-microdiscectomy

2. https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j-j-watt-and-how-herniated-discs-can-reoccur/

3. https://mybackmylife.com/nfl-star-undergoes-back-surgery

4. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/nfl-injuries-part-iv-variation-position

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8 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Microdiscectomy has 8-10% recuurency rate in NFL players.  This news isn't good no matter how the homers want to spin it.  Gronk has had three surgeries on same disk, JJ Watt had his recur, Farley had his recur, and Peyton also had his recur.   MLB position gernerates massive forces on the lumbar spine via tackling.  LB have highest risk of re-injury too.

 

METHODS

The authors identified publicly accessible data from a cohort of different types of professional players who received either a lumbar discectomy or a microdiscectomy. These records were identified through newspaper archives, injury reports, player profiles and press releases between 1993 through 2015. Fantasy and Wins Above Replacement (WAR) scores were calculated for each player.

RESULTS

A total of 38 professional players met study inclusion criteria. NFL players had the lowest return-to-play (RTP) at nine of 14 (64%). The RTP for NBA, NHL and MLB players were comparable with 6/7 (86%) vs 8/9 (89%) vs 7/8 (88%). NFL players had the lowest average career length after surgery at 34.8 months, while NBA players had the longest average career length at 48 months. MLB players on average required the longest time to return to presurgical level of performance (24 months) and required the longest average recovery time at 12 months.

CONCLUSIONS

Based on these results, the average performance of most elite athletes are likely to decrease after undergoing a lumbar discectomy. Although it appears that performance peaks in the initial years after the operation for some players, there was an overall long-term decline in this sample of elite athletes. Study limitations included small sample size, lack of controlling for possible confounding variables (e.g., age, etc.) and use of variable reporting sources. Additional studies with larger sample sizes and age-matched controls are needed to examine the effects of lumbar discectomy more comprehensively in elite athletes.

 

1. https://smrj.scholasticahq.com/article/30766-fantasy-points-associated-with-professional-athlete-performance-after-lumbar-discectomy-or-microdiscectomy

2. https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j-j-watt-and-how-herniated-discs-can-reoccur/

3. https://mybackmylife.com/nfl-star-undergoes-back-surgery

4. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/nfl-injuries-part-iv-variation-position

When he plays at an MVP level this year we can talk more. It is not being a HomerSeason 3 Sleeping GIF by The Simpsons . Yes back problems are bad, some surgery's are major indeed. My step-dad had back surgery, same type that Leonard had and he was 100% healthy in 6 weeks. He did back breaking work on the railroad for 40 years and worked on a farm. After his surgery he had very little problems in the 10 years he still had to work. I know first hand by my eye test his surgery wasn't a major one, but carry on.  

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Arian Foster career was ended by a chronic back problem after surgery.  His hamstring injuries prior to his surgeries were tied to his chronic back problem.  Sound familiar to Leonard's ankle complaints?

 

David Wright the seven time New York Mets all-star retired after the 2018 baseball season after a spinal stenosis disc herniation diagnosis in 2015 and a laminotomy in 2017.  

 

Henrik Zetterburg the former captain of the Detroit Red Wings, underwent back surgery in 2014 to remove bone fragment that was pinching a nerve.  On September 14th, 2018, Zetterberg retired citing a chronic degenerative disc condition from his "minor back surgeries" that was preventing him from playing to his potential.

 

On April 20, 2012 Dwight Howard the Orlando Magic basketball star underwent a lumbar microdiscectomy to remove herniated disc material which was pinching a nerve root.  Prior to the surgery, Howard complained of low back pain and weakness in his ankle and leg.  Though he returned to the NBA during the 2012-13 season, his surgery clearly affected his game as he had his worst season since 2006-7 in defensive rebounding.

 

James Paxton of the Yankees had a lumbar microdiscectomy.  In February of 2020, Paxton had the procedure done and missed 6 months and he has not been the same since. 

 

Steve Kerr eight-time NBA champion underwent a botched micro-discectomy in July 2015 for herniated discs.  The surgeon performing the surgery nicked the Dura which caused a cerebrospinal fluid leak. To fix the problem Kerr had a second surgery in 2016…and yet another one in 2017.

 

Don't tell me this is routine homers.  And your step Dad comment is a joke.  

^^^^^Facts.

 

Not anecedotes of your step Dad who played fantasy football.

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1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

Your step Dad is not an elite athelete.  I love how you miss the context and why it is critical. 

It is critical, but at this time there is no reason to be too far on either side.   He may be fine, he may not be fine.  

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3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Sigh.  Has the bone structure of a Standard Poodle, where the position calls for the structure of a Rottweiler.

Yawn.

LBs have been getting smaller, especially 4-3 WILLs.

Heck, the guy that led the NFL last season in tackles is as small or smaller than Leonard. Both listed at 6-2 and 230, but play weight is lighter... He played WILL his first couple years but played MIKE last season for ATL, and just signed a nice contract with Jax to start at ILB in their 3-4.... 

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On 5/27/2022 at 10:04 PM, throwing BBZ said:

 

  The odds are leaning against the ankle holding up over the long season.

 He will play a lot of hobbled football the rest of his career. 

Not the rest of his career, but perhaps 2022.  There are procedures to fix just about everything, and high-end expert doctors who know how to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

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Leonard has fire, is proud, and also a desire to make the $$.

He played hobbled last season, and while his Ts were down a bit, had a career TO year. 

Not all that worried. Probably more worried about Nelson.

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Lots of misinformed comments here... At his age he likely had a Discectomy.

 

A real doc would not confuse ankle pain with a lumbar nerve compression, I suspect he has both. 

 

Nucleoplasty is nonsense.  Wow, good grief. 

 

Nobody has ever seen a 5 gallon milk jug. 

 

He will be heavily restricted for about 3mo to avoid reherniation which is about a 10 percent problem in regular humans during the first 6-12 weeks. 

 

A Discectomy has very little predictive value for long term back issues. Playing football is terrible for anybody's back, however. 

 

He probably does nothing until the regular season, but it's all a bit arbitrary.

 

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21 minutes ago, nsurg said:

Lots of misinformed comments here... At his age he likely had a Discectomy.

 

A real doc would not confuse ankle pain with a lumbar nerve compression, I suspect he has both. 

He actually linked it to his ability to push off. 

21 minutes ago, nsurg said:

 

Nucleoplasty is nonsense.  Wow, good grief. 

 

Nobody has ever seen a 5 gallon milk jug. 

 

He will be heavily restricted for about 3mo to avoid reherniation which is about a 10 percent problem in regular humans during the first 6-12 weeks. 

Heavily restricted for 3mos? IIRC, both Frank and Leonard said he's miss the start of camp, but would be ready for the start of the season. The start of the season is right at 3 months. I guess it's possible he does nothing all camp and goes straight to playing a new scheme in game one, but would assume he'd be back at least a week or two prior to week 1. Again, that's if you trust what Frank and DL said. 

 

Also, why is a nucleoplasty nonsense. It's less evasive and can be performed as outpatient surgery. His wife actually posted that he's already walking outside the day after. I was under the impression a discectomy normally requires a short stay??

21 minutes ago, nsurg said:

 

A Discectomy has very little predictive value for long term back issues. Playing football is terrible for anybody's back, however. 

 

He probably does nothing until the regular season, but it's all a bit arbitrary.

 

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The success of our season does not depend on DL. Of course it would be nice to have him back at 100%

 

We just need to make sure we find a good backup. Maybe the backup is already on the roster but Ballard may need to start looking around anyways.

 

There could be some really good LBs available when teams cut down to their final 53.

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59 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

The success of our season does not depend on DL. Of course it would be nice to have him back at 100%

 

We just need to make sure we find a good backup. Maybe the backup is already on the roster but Ballard may need to start looking around anyways.

 

There could be some really good LBs available when teams cut down to their final 53.

I believe Speed has been his backup the past two years.  If he needs replacing the player with the experience is already here.  I also remember Franklin filling in at times.  If We need to substitute on regular basis this will be the opportunity to see Speed has in what I think is his contract year.

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1 hour ago, Farns01 said:

I believe Speed has been his backup the past two years.  If he needs replacing the player with the experience is already here.  I also remember Franklin filling in at times.  If We need to substitute on regular basis this will be the opportunity to see Speed has in what I think is his contract year.

Yes, Speed is in his contract year.  He has been a solid backup and special teamer.  Franklin can play WLB as well, but imo, SLB and MLB are his better fits.

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16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He actually linked it to his ability to push off. 

Heavily restricted for 3mos? IIRC, both Frank and Leonard said he's miss the start of camp, but would be ready for the start of the season. The start of the season is right at 3 months. I guess it's possible he does nothing all camp and goes straight to playing a new scheme in game one, but would assume he'd be back at least a week or two prior to week 1. Again, that's if you trust what Frank and DL said. 

 

Also, why is a nucleoplasty nonsense. It's less evasive and can be performed as outpatient surgery. His wife actually posted that he's already walking outside the day after. I was under the impression a discectomy normally requires a short stay??

 

Discectomy surgery is outpatient surgery with rare exception... 

 

Nucleoplasty is a scam/placebo.

 

The surgery is high success and minimal pain but the risk of reherniation is what limits exertion for an arbitrary time. I'd tell him 3 months of light duty because who wants to re operate on an NFL player? 

 

It's hard to glean much from the published info, I'm certainty making some assumptions! 

 

Hopefully he'll be dominant again soon 

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1 hour ago, nsurg said:

Discectomy surgery is outpatient surgery with rare exception... 

 

Nucleoplasty is a scam/placebo.

 

The surgery is high success and minimal pain but the risk of reherniation is what limits exertion for an arbitrary time. I'd tell him 3 months of light duty because who wants to re operate on an NFL player? 

 

It's hard to glean much from the published info, I'm certainty making some assumptions! 

 

Hopefully he'll be dominant again soon 


You seem extremely knowledgeable, and I want to thank you for your input here.   
 

My understanding is for most patients, after the operation they’re typically discharged in 60-90 minutes?    Is that about right?   

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2 hours ago, nsurg said:

Discectomy surgery is outpatient surgery with rare exception... 

 

Nucleoplasty is a scam/placebo.

 

The surgery is high success and minimal pain but the risk of reherniation is what limits exertion for an arbitrary time. I'd tell him 3 months of light duty because who wants to re operate on an NFL player? 

 

It's hard to glean much from the published info, I'm certainty making some assumptions! 

 

Hopefully he'll be dominant again soon 

I had an employee who had both (different areas). Both were successful (at least for the 3-4 years he worked for me). The discectomy was far more evasive (at least for him). The other he considered minor cleanup. 

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