NFL.com: TE Mo Alie-Cox Named Team’s Most Underappreciated Player

[EastStreet]

 

IIRC, PFF said the same thing about him last year.

 

Cited his blocking and increased productivity. 

I have a feeling Ryan will like Mo... More sail routes please.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-most-underappreciated-players-hunter-renfrow-chuck-clark-among-afc-picks

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/5/25/23142004/colts-tight-end-mo-alie-cox-named-teams-most-underappreciated-player

[CR91]

I think it's Pitt. I don't think many people realize how great he was last year with limited opportunities as we were constantly running the ball and still put up 1100 yards

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

I think it's Pitt. I don't think many people realize how great he was last year with limited opportunities as we were constantly running the ball and still put up 1100 yards

 

I think the vast majority of folks were thrilled with Pitt's year. He exceeded my expectations given he's playing X. Only a few that I recall were meh on him. If he gets a decent partner in crime at WR to alleviate pressure/doubles, and especially another guy that can be productive outside, he'll be able to run more seam from outside, and run more slot in general. 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think the vast majority of folks were thrilled with Pitt's year. He exceeded my expectations given he's playing X. Only a few that I recall were meh on him. If he gets a decent partner in crime at WR to alleviate pressure/doubles, and especially another guy that can be productive outside, he'll be able to run more seam from outside, and run more slot in general. 

 

I just don't think he gets the respect he deserves in terms of being our new WR1

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I just don't think he gets the respect he deserves in terms of being our new WR1

 

I think everyone's definition of respect is different. 

And folks also have different ideas of WR1

I look at him this way.

• Xs typically aren't WR1s (scheme wise), and he was tossed into the deep end due to need. He responded with 1000+ yards which was beyond most folks expectations.
• If we're talking about WR1 purely in terms of production, he was 16th in WR yards, and by simple logic, the top 32 WRs could all be tagged as "WR1". And he was middle of the pack in terms of WR1s. Still excellent for his years in the NFL.
• If we ever get a legit and dynamic Z (or maybe even a slot), it's very possible he drops to #2 in targets and yards. And that's OK so long as the other guy is productive.
• At the end of the day, he's proven capable of 1000+ yards early in his career, which is no small feat. Is he a pro-bowl type, nope not now or yet. But very very nice start. 

[CR91]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think everyone's definition of respect is different. 

And folks also have different ideas of WR1

I look at him this way.

• Xs typically aren't WR1s (scheme wise), and he was tossed into the deep end due to need. He responded with 1000+ yards which was beyond most folks expectations.
• If we're talking about WR1 purely in terms of production, he was 16th in WR yards, and by simple logic, the top 32 WRs could all be tagged as "WR1". And he was middle of the pack in terms of WR1s. Still excellent for his years in the NFL.
• If we ever get a legit and dynamic Z (or maybe even a slot), it's very possible he drops to #2 in targets and yards. And that's OK so long as the other guy is productive.
• At the end of the day, he's proven capable of 1000+ yards early in his career, which is no small feat. Is he a pro-bowl type, nope not now or yet. But very very nice start. 

 

But you see that's the thing. Hilton got the same treatment and it took years for us to accept T.Y as a WR1. We pigeon hole a player and act like he can't be more. I honestly believe Pitt has the potential to be up there with the Marvs and Reggies. Might sound crazy, but I think he has that kind of talent.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

But you see that's the thing. Hilton got the same treatment and it took years for us to accept T.Y as a WR1. We pigeon hole a player and act like he can't be more. I honestly believe Pitt has the potential to be up there with the Marvs and Reggies. Might sound crazy, but I think he has that kind of talent.

Personally I think it's just too early to say one way or another. We know that without a doubt he's capable of 1000+. That's more than good enough for me.

 

Both Marv and Reg had 8 years of 1000+ years. They also overlapped 8ish years IIRC, so benefitted from having someone take off the pressure/doubles. But 8 years of 1000+, in only 16 games, is pretty darn good. It's not a leap to think Pitt can't do that if he stays healthy. Not sure if Pitt will put up 1500+ years like Marv though. 

 

I just hope Pitt either gets more work from the slot, or at minimum, gets deep seam crossers from the outside. He'll kill LBs and Ss if they allow him to do that. 

[lollygagger8]

Underutilized is a better adjective to describe Mo 

[SOMDColtsfan]

I wouldn't call him "underappreciated". He was one of the players coming into 2021 many thought was ready to have a breakout year. More a "disappointment". Let's see if Ryan can get big Mo back on track

[coltsva]

Wait, I thought it was Kenny Moore?

[2006Coltsbestever]

Mo has a lot of talent and athletic ability but does he have the football IQ to be a good player? He is above average, but we need good to great. 

[Hoose]

I’m anxious to see what Mo can do with a QB who knows how to get him the ball.  
Could be a fun year for him. 

[shasta519]

8 hours ago, CR91 said:

I think it's Pitt. I don't think many people realize how great he was last year with limited opportunities as we were constantly running the ball and still put up 1100 yards

 

Limited opportunities? He was as tied for #14 in targets and target share.

 

He had 4 games with 12+ targets...only one went for 100+ yards. 

 

Pitt was good last year, but opportunity volume played a big role in that.   

[CR91]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Limited opportunities? He was as tied for #14 in targets and target share.

 

He had 4 games with 12+ targets...only one went for 100+ yards. 

 

Pitt was good last year, but opportunity volume played a big role in that.   

 

Targeted and catchable are two entirely different things. Go look at the last 4 games of the season. Wentz and the passing game was pretty non-existent 

 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Targeted and catchable are two entirely different things. Go look at the last 4 games of the season. Wentz and the passing game was pretty non-existent 

 

His target share and receptions rank are almost identical, so there's not a huge skew either way. And while I'd agree other's got better catchable rates, Pitt also wasn't spectacular in "true catch rate" (catch % on catchable balls) which was ranked 34th. In short, he was good, probably very good, but not elite. He's young though, so a lot of promise. I expect his quality/efficiency stats to get better this season. 

[Four2itus]

Mo Mo?

 

Mo betta...

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Mo has a lot of talent and athletic ability but does he have the football IQ to be a good player? He is above average, but we need good to great. 

 

  I have yet to witness any above average talent or athletic ability. 
 In Warners critique of Wentz he showed Mo lazily run his route several steps too deep allowing his DB to drift back into TY's passing lane. A Simple spacing failure on veteran Mo's part.

 Given time he has gotten into the D a few times. Otherwise, in a man to man situation he looks heavy footed in the short to intermediate game.
 Frank and Ryan will give him some shots, and in our new top notch spread the ball around passing game, i think Mo will have a nice, yet modestly so year as a receiver. For fun i Guess 30-35 catches 290 yds 3 td's.

 And what will be important is how many of his are big catches for 1st downs.

[sb41champs]

Now that we have a "big time QB" under center - I think ALL of our offensive weapons will excel - not JUST Jonathan Taylor!!

 

Having two tall TE's and tall wideouts will significantly upgrade our offense as well.

 

SO looking forward to the 2022 season!!!

[AwesomeAustin]

28 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  I have yet to witness any above average talent or athletic ability. 
 In Warners critique of Wentz he showed Mo lazily run his route several steps too deep allowing his DB to drift back into TY's passing lane. A Simple spacing failure on veteran Mo's part.

 Given time he has gotten into the D a few times. Otherwise, in a man to man situation he looks heavy footed in the short to intermediate game.
 Frank and Ryan will give him some shots, and in our new top notch spread the ball around passing game, i think Mo will have a nice, yet modestly so year as a receiver. For fun i Guess 30-35 catches 290 yds 3 td's.

 And what will be important is how many of his are big catches for 1st downs.

I agree. He needs to go for 600yds and 5tds to warrant his contract

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  I have yet to witness any above average talent or athletic ability. 
 In Warners critique of Wentz he showed Mo lazily run his route several steps too deep allowing his DB to drift back into TY's passing lane. A Simple spacing failure on veteran Mo's part.

 Given time he has gotten into the D a few times. Otherwise, in a man to man situation he looks heavy footed in the short to intermediate game.
 Frank and Ryan will give him some shots, and in our new top notch spread the ball around passing game, i think Mo will have a nice, yet modestly so year as a receiver. For fun i Guess 30-35 catches 290 yds 3 td's.

 And what will be important is how many of his are big catches for 1st downs.

He has gifts but will he use them? That is where I was going with my initial post. I have seen the one handed catches and flashes of good speed. He just does it once every 3 games or so.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Targeted and catchable are two entirely different things. Go look at the last 4 games of the season. Wentz and the passing game was pretty non-existent 

 

 

In the NE game, yes. But over the last 3 games, Pitt had 25 targets and caught 20 of them. 

 

I think there were certainly limited opps on the team for some pass catchers, but Pittman was very heavily-targeted last year.  

[shasta519]

MAC is a soon-to-be 29 year-old fringe TE1 who blocks well. The past two season he has only played in a little more than 50% of the offense snaps and finished in the 27-30 range in yards.

 

As the 24th-highest paid TE now, it seems like he is aptly appreciated.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  I have yet to witness any above average talent or athletic ability. 
 In Warners critique of Wentz he showed Mo lazily run his route several steps too deep allowing his DB to drift back into TY's passing lane. A Simple spacing failure on veteran Mo's part.

 Given time he has gotten into the D a few times. Otherwise, in a man to man situation he looks heavy footed in the short to intermediate game.
 Frank and Ryan will give him some shots, and in our new top notch spread the ball around passing game, i think Mo will have a nice, yet modestly so year as a receiver. For fun i Guess 30-35 catches 290 yds 3 td's.

 And what will be important is how many of his are big catches for 1st downs.

 

I have to agree. MAC blocks really well. But he really should, given his sheer size and nearly 12" hands.

 

But as a pass catcher and athlete, MAC appears to be very heavy-footed and plodding. And if I had to guess, this is probably one reason why Reich doesn't use him in the short-intermediate range, outside of a pick play or drag hot route where they can scheme him open.

 

Reich doesn't just forget about him or take him out of the playbook for fun. He sees MAC in practice everyday.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I agree. He needs to go for 600yds and 5tds to warrant his contract

 

That's a pretty tall order for MAC, amirite?

[CR91]

33 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

In the NE game, yes. But over the last 3 games, Pitt had 25 targets and caught 20 of them. 

 

I think there were certainly limited opps on the team for some pass catchers, but Pittman was very heavily-targeted last year.  

 

Your missing my point. This was not a pass first offense so any opportunities for Pittman last year were dictated by the run game. I can see the offense being more balanced under Ryan and we can see even better numbers from Pitt. 1300 yards and 10 tds would not surprise me.

[AwesomeAustin]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's a pretty tall order for MAC, amirite?

Yeah it’s high expectations but only put him in the middle of the pack against other starting TEs. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I have to agree. MAC blocks really well. But he really should, given his sheer size and nearly 12" hands.

 

But as a pass catcher and athlete, MAC appears to be very heavy-footed and plodding. And if I had to guess, this is probably one reason why Reich doesn't use him in the short-intermediate range, outside of a pick play or drag hot route where they can scheme him open.

 

Reich doesn't just forget about him or take him out of the playbook for fun. He sees MAC in practice everyday.

 

MAC had almost 400 yards and an 80ish% catch rate with Rivers, and he was more or less the 3rd TE.... Doyle was the starter (hurt a few games) but MAC clearly outplayed him in just about every stat. And Burton got the most TE targets on the team, and MAC easily out-played and out-stat'd him. That whole "force the ball to Burton" phase was enough to make anyone ill. 

 

I won't pretend he's some All-Pro type move TE (he's not), but Reich's TE usage has been questionable. MAC has always been in that TE2 (at best) role, never really a focus of the O. TE usage overall has taken a back seat since Reich's first season when he was pretty much hands off of the "Luck offense"... And since, it's been hugely skewed toward short and simple possession type stuff. When MAC has been given a chance for deeper targets (see MN game), he's performed well. 

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Yeah it’s high expectations but only put him in the middle of the pack against other starting TEs. 

I know. I was just making a tall joke about MAC. 
 

That production is doable with enough targets. But I think MAC and Granson will cannibalize targets from each other. 

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Yeah it’s high expectations but only put him in the middle of the pack against other starting TEs. 

 

600ish would put him near top 10 status. Don't quote me, but when I looked earlier this year, the last two or three years had about 10-12 TEs over 600 yards each year. 

 

I'd also add that a good portion of those are considered "move TEs". I typically break TEs down into 4 groups. You have the old school "Y" or in-line TE, the "U" or move-TE, the HB/slot/TE hybrid (think Burton and Granson), and the combo (plays both Y and U).

 

Guys like Ertz, Kittle, Waller, and Kelce are all more U/move than anything else, and are installed almost like a WR. And then you have the new guy, Pitts, who is more X than TE lol... And none of those guys are as heavy as MAC or asked to block as much. 

 

All in all, just different types, all which come with different realities and expectations. Not everyone will be a unicorn like Gronk. But at the same time, we've never used TEs (under Reich) like teams have used Gronk. 

[AwesomeAustin]

30 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

600ish would put him near top 10 status. Don't quote me, but when I looked earlier this year, the last two or three years had about 10-12 TEs over 600 yards each year. 

 

I'd also add that a good portion of those are considered "move TEs". I typically break TEs down into 4 groups. You have the old school "Y" or in-line TE, the "U" or move-TE, the HB/slot/TE hybrid (think Burton and Granson), and the combo (plays both Y and U).

 

Guys like Ertz, Kittle, Waller, and Kelce are all more U/move than anything else, and are installed almost like a WR. And then you have the new guy, Pitts, who is more X than TE lol... And none of those guys are as heavy as MAC or asked to block as much. 

 

All in all, just different types, all which come with different realities and expectations. Not everyone will be a unicorn like Gronk. But at the same time, we've never used TEs (under Reich) like teams have used Gronk. 

Yeah. I think 600 is somewhere in that 10-14 range but I think outside the top 10 they are really grouped close together for a bit. I guess I could have reworded it as he should average around 35yds a game and catch a TD every 3-4 games. To me it’s really not expecting much.  Those aren’t pedestrian numbers but they aren’t pro bowl stats either. Just a solid player that contributes

[compuls1v3]

22 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I have to agree. MAC blocks really well. But he really should, given his sheer size and nearly 12" hands.

 

But as a pass catcher and athlete, MAC appears to be very heavy-footed and plodding. And if I had to guess, this is probably one reason why Reich doesn't use him in the short-intermediate range, outside of a pick play or drag hot route where they can scheme him open.

 

Reich doesn't just forget about him or take him out of the playbook for fun. He sees MAC in practice everyday.

I've seen MAC block.  and I've got to say he has his fair shares of misses.  I wouldn't be surprised if Granson replaces him at some point.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Yeah. I think 600 is somewhere in that 10-14 range but I think outside the top 10 they are really grouped close together for a bit. I guess I could have reworded it as he should average around 35yds a game and catch a TD every 3-4 games. To me it’s really not expecting much.  Those aren’t pedestrian numbers but they aren’t pro bowl stats either. Just a solid player that contributes

Keep in mind, with Rivers, MAC had near 400 yards, and was basically TE3... Doyle was TE1, but missed a few games. Burton got more targets than MAC... Yet MAC had a great year, and more yards than Doyle and Burton. I don't think 600 is pedestrian, but I also don't think it's a lofty target either. If they'd allow MAC to go vertical (like the MN game in 2020), I think 600 would be easy for him. I just don't know if Reich's scheme will employ that. Perhaps Ryan will be a pushy SOB when it comes to the plays he wants lol...

 

 

[AwesomeAustin]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Keep in mind, with Rivers, MAC had near 400 yards, and was basically TE3... Doyle was TE1, but missed a few games. Burton got more targets than MAC... Yet MAC had a great year, and more yards than Doyle and Burton. I don't think 600 is pedestrian, but I also don't think it's a lofty target either. If they'd allow MAC to go vertical (like the MN game in 2020), I think 600 would be easy for him. I just don't know if Reich's scheme will employ that. Perhaps Ryan will be a pushy SOB when it comes to the plays he wants lol...

 

 

I think Ryan will go where the play is. The TEs should see their fair share of action.  I expect the ball to be spread around enough everyone will get to contribute. I’m really interested how they use the slot. I see Reich using TEs, RBs and WRs at this spot. A lot of potential for chunk plays to go around. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I think Ryan will go where the play is. The TEs should see their fair share of action.  I expect the ball to be spread around enough everyone will get to contribute. I’m really interested how they use the slot. I see Reich using TEs, RBs and WRs at this spot. A lot of potential for chunk plays to go around. 

I just hope the OL does better this season. 

[AwesomeAustin]

49 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I just hope the OL does better this season. 

I think the OL will be in that 8-12 range, I’m guessing closer to 12. I think that will be the story for our team. . Besides JT, most units will be solid and slightly above average to good. Will be a fun way to see if star power or deep roster prevails. 

[EastStreet]

16 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I think the OL will be in that 8-12 range, I’m guessing closer to 12. I think that will be the story for our team. . Besides JT, most units will be solid and slightly above average to good. Will be a fun way to see if star power or deep roster prevails. 

Aside from RT/Smith, we have questions all along the OL. 

I agree on the 8-12 guestimate. I'm hoping higher though if the cards fall right.

I'm more confident that most on Pryor and Pinter. Less confident on Kelly than many. Q's health is a big concern, and really hope he rebounds. Wish we knew more about the back issue. 

[AwesomeAustin]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Aside from RT/Smith, we have questions all along the OL. 

I agree on the 8-12 guestimate. I'm hoping higher though if the cards fall right.

I'm more confident that most on Pryor and Pinter. Less confident on Kelly than many. Q's health is a big concern, and really hope he rebounds. Wish we knew more about the back issue. 

We are on the same page for the most part. I’m very confident Pinter will be a quality starter. I think this is Kelly’s last year in Indy. I think he will decline more this year. As far as Pryor, I think he will be serviceable. I think he has talent bc he did well playing three different positions last year. How good?  Not quite sure.   
 

 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

We are on the same page for the most part. I’m very confident Pinter will be a quality starter. I think this is Kelly’s last year in Indy. I think he will decline more this year. As far as Pryor, I think he will be serviceable. I think he has talent bc he did well playing three different positions last year. How good?  Not quite sure.   

Like I posted in another thread, I would have done something different at RG and OC. 

I think we'll decline a bit in run blocking at LT, but be better pass pro. I'm OK with that to be honest.

So long as Pryor is not on skates like Fisher, and grades overall in the 70s, I'm all good. 

 

[Professor Farnsworth]

Feel good about our TE core in general; all have their strengths that will hopefully work well with how Ryan plays the game.

[holeymoley99]

Woods is going to be a stud and I think Granson will be a nice complement so whatever MAC does to help them is a positive as 3rd TE