2022 DL Discussion: Assumed starters, guys fighting for a spot, comments, and poll

[EastStreet]

Started digging on our DL, so doing a thread similar to the OL thread I recently did. 

 

• TLDR - I really like our primary 6 rotation, but after that, huge questions. Not really worried about true NT, but 3T seams very vulnerable. We could likely get by for a while if NT or DE had some short term injuries, but 3T would likely be a problem. 
• Assumed starters (6-man rotation) based on aggregate of current depth charts and articles
  • Run D / early downs
    • RDE - Dayo or Lewis
    • 3T - Buckner
    • NT - Stewart
    • LDE - Paye
  • Pass Rush
    • RDE/LEO - Ngakoue
    • 3T - Buckner
    • DT - Dayo or Lewis
    • LDE - Paye
  • Scheme comments and impacts
    • Transition from read/react to vertical gap rushing
      • At least during pass rushing, our guys will be on rails getting up field. This should do wonders for our sack and pressure totals, while perhaps being detrimental to run D if our LBs can't clean up. We were 
        • We were tied for 7th worst in sacks. Expect us to be at minimum middle of the pack this season, if not pushing to enter the top 10. Bradley had Ngakoue while DCing LVR, but he didn't have Buckner or Paye. Expect him to do better in this area than while at LVR.
        • We were 2nd worst in pressure % last season. Bradley was 15th best at LVR, and I'm guessing we'll better the LVR % if we remain healthy. My guess, 10ish. 
      • Buckner was quoted saying he can't wait to get on a rail and rush the QB in Bradley's scheme. IMO we'll see nice jumps in sacks and pressures from both Buckner and Paye. 
    • If adding a man-coverage guy like Gilmore reaps expected benefit (assuming our other DBs hold their own too), we could see a multiplier impact to the DL
  • Individual comments (6-man)
    • Ngakoue - Not saying that we'll never see him on run or early downs, but IMO, he'll be specialized primarily to pass rushing LEO. His run D issues are widely known. To me, that's not entirely bad, as he'll be fresh, and can focus on being a terror in the backfield on passing downs. He'll certainly see more early time vs teams with great QBs, or teams that throw a lot on early downs. Can't wait to see him T off on the edge. 
    • Paye - graded as one of the best, if not the best, rook DE. Should benefit a lot from the new scheme (see above). He and Buckner IMO will battle for top snaps along the DL. He's been working with Mathis in the offseason along with Dayo, so expect his pass rush to improve and also increase in variety. I'd like to see some stunting with him on the interior as well like how he was used at UM. If shuffled/stunted a few times a game, I think he could become a legit disruptor inside vs OGs. 
    • Buckner - like Paye, should benefit greatly from the new scheme. I think we'll finally see the numbers we all expected when he signed. He said something like the new scheme will be a breath of fresh air, and IMO, he could approach Donald type numbers this season. 
    • Stewart - will likely be on a snap count most games to keep him fresh, which is a good thing. Snaps got out of hand at times for him last season. While I don't necessarily see him getting a bunch of sacks (he'll likely come off the field a lot in obvious pass downs), I do believe his Ts and grades will both go up.
    • Dayo - as stated above, he's been working out with Mathis and Paye in the off season. Can't wait to see him this season. Should be fully recovered, and certainly will benefit from and offseason with Mathis. There's no doubt he's got crazy/freak measurables and upside. 3T size, with DE speed/agility. It'll be interesting to see who if Dayo is the primary to be inserted on passing downs when Grover comes out. Paye/Dayo/Buckner/Ngakoue could be downright nasty to opposing OLs. I like his chances this season to take a huge step forward. Ballard either looks like a genius here, or gets more DE-draft criticism once it's all said and done.
      • article on training with Mathis - https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/5/18/23125414/colts-dayo-odeyingbo-has-been-training-with-robert-mathis-as-2nd-year-breakout-potentially-looms
    • Lewis - was expected to fill the tweener roll opened up by Autry's move last season. Was grading pretty well (71.3) and had 3 sacks, before getting injured week 8. Assuming he's back to health, I think we can assume he'll be in the primary 6 man rotation. Depending on Dayo's use ("big end" or inside 3T on passing downs, or both), his snaps could suffer this season. Regardless, should be at minimum the 6th guy given his experience and production. 
• Key losses
  • AQM - DE
    • Signed a 2 year 8M total contract with the Bears
    • Had the 2nd most sacks for Indy last season (7), and second in pressures (19). 
    • Not stellar numbers, but decent. Not surprised we let him walk given our addition of Ngakoue, and expectations of Paye and Dayo. It likely came down to Lewis vs AQM, and Lewis likely has more value as he can play both Big End and 3T
  • Turay - Edge/LEO
    • Signed a one year 1.7M contract with SF
    • 5.5 sacks (career high) despite low snap counts all year. Only inactive 3 games, so was healthy enough to play most of the season. 
    • Given his cheap price, would have liked to see him as our backup LEO.
  • Stallworth - 3T
    • Signed a 1 year 1.2M contract with KC
    • Had the 3rd most pressures, despite only starting one game (he had over 50% of snaps in two games, once as starter).
    • Behind Defo, 3T has pretty much zero experience or tested production, so a little surprised we let him go given he signed a short term contract for looks to be the min. 
• Guys competing for a roster spot (final 3-4 spots)
  • Chris Williams NT: 6-2 / 302 - Likely the front runner for backup NT. Colts UDFA from 2020 and has spent some time on the roster, but mostly PS and reserve/futures contracts. The fact he's hung around is why I give him a leg up. That, and I don't see any other true NT types competing. 
  • Eric Johnson DT: 6-5 / 286 - our 5th round pick this year. Another small school guy. His stock went up a bit due to post season games (senior bowl and NFLPA) despite what NFL.com calls pedestrian tape (especially for the small school/conf competition). You could probably label him a tweener, but I just don't see him at DE. 
  • Curtis Brooks DT: 6-2 / 285 - a 6th round pick this year. He's considered more of an interior pass rush specialist or tweener, than every down anchor type. If Bradley likes to specialize, Brooks might find a spot as passing down specialist when Stewart comes out. 
  • Ben Banogu DE/LEO: 6-3 / 252 - we all know the story here. New scheme might give him new life at backup LEO and/or SAM. He's never been good at rushing the edge (better rushing inside the OT), but he's probably the closest we have to a true LEO after Ngakoue. It's his last year under contract, so the pressure is on. If he doesn't impress pre-season, won't be shocked to see him get cut. I do think he'll stand a decent chance in the new scheme if he's improved his outside rush. 
  • Kameron Cline DE/3T Tweener: 6-4 / 283 - another 2020 UDFA from a small school who has spent most time as a PS and reserve/futures guy. Total wild card as we haven't seen him the last two seasons. He's hung around, but the scheme change this year might be either a good, or bad thing for him. Always a long shot though.
  • RJ McIntosh 3T: 6-5 / 286 - 2018 5th round pick by the Giants that has bounced around to several teams. Comes from an athletic family, but a long shot. Didn't do a lot in college at Miami, left early, and then had thyroid issues in his first NFL year. Given we're his 4th team, chances are low IMO. 
  • Scott Patchan DE/3T: 6-6 / 270 - UDFA rook that has an interesting history. Started out as an IMG high school prospect (IMG is football factory for blue chippers). He then went to Miami and didn't find success in 4 years. Then transferred to CSU and put up 17 sacks and 27 TFLs in 16 games (albeit in the Mountain West) as an edge rusher. He's got good RAS for his size, but not really the twitch/agility you'd want in an edge. Good power/strength though. He played 6 seasons of CFB, so he's older than most kids drafted this year. Perhaps he converts from DE to 3T and finds a niche. I love his chances at PS if he doesn't make the 53. 
  • McKinnley Williams DT: 6-4 / 285 - UDFA rook. Another 6 year guy like Patchan, but not near the production. Huge long shot. 
  • Cullen Wick DE: 6-3 / 267: Small school UDFA. Good kid, but not a lot of production at a small school. Good RAS, which probably led to the interest. Long shot. 

[Smonroe]

It was tough picking that tenth guy on the Dline.  I figured that the two draft picks and BB have the lead.  BB mainly because he’s cheap and pass rushers are always needed.  Besides, you have to sit guys on game day and he has experience there.

 

We were 31st in pressures last year?  Combination of scheme and lack of talent.  Both issues have been addressed.   I’m expecting at least middle of the pack, but I’m hoping for top 10.  

[krunk]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Started digging on our DL, so doing a thread similar to the OL thread I recently did. 

 

• TLDR - I really like our primary 6 rotation, but after that, huge questions. Not really worried about true NT, but 3T seams very vulnerable. We could likely get by for a while if NT or DE had some short term injuries, but 3T would likely be a problem. 
• Assumed starters (6-man rotation) based on aggregate of current depth charts and articles
  • Run D / early downs
    • RDE - Dayo or Lewis
    • 3T - Buckner
    • NT - Stewart
    • LDE - Paye
  • Pass Rush
    • RDE/LEO - Ngakoue
    • 3T - Buckner
    • DT - Dayo or Lewis
    • LDE - Paye
  • Scheme comments and impacts
    • Transition from read/react to vertical gap rushing
      • At least during pass rushing, our guys will be on rails getting up field. This should do wonders for our sack and pressure totals, while perhaps being detrimental to run D if our LBs can't clean up. We were 
        • We were tied for 7th worst in sacks. Expect us to be at minimum middle of the pack this season, if not pushing to enter the top 10. Bradley had Ngakoue while DCing LVR, but he didn't have Buckner or Paye. Expect him to do better in this area than while at LVR.
        • We were 2nd worst in pressure % last season. Bradley was 15th best at LVR, and I'm guessing we'll better the LVR % if we remain healthy. My guess, 10ish. 
      • Buckner was quoted saying he can't wait to get on a rail and rush the QB in Bradley's scheme. IMO we'll see nice jumps in sacks and pressures from both Buckner and Paye. 
    • If adding a man-coverage guy like Gilmore reaps expected benefit (assuming our other DBs hold their own too), we could see a multiplier impact to the DL
  • Individual comments (6-man)
    • Ngakoue - Not saying that we'll never see him on run or early downs, but IMO, he'll be specialized primarily to pass rushing LEO. His run D issues are widely known. To me, that's not entirely bad, as he'll be fresh, and can focus on being a terror in the backfield on passing downs. He'll certainly see more early time vs teams with great QBs, or teams that throw a lot on early downs. Can't wait to see him T off on the edge. 
    • Paye - graded as one of the best, if not the best, rook DE. Should benefit a lot from the new scheme (see above). He and Buckner IMO will battle for top snaps along the DL. He's been working with Mathis in the offseason along with Dayo, so expect his pass rush to improve and also increase in variety. I'd like to see some stunting with him on the interior as well like how he was used at UM. If shuffled/stunted a few times a game, I think he could become a legit disruptor inside vs OGs. 
    • Buckner - like Paye, should benefit greatly from the new scheme. I think we'll finally see the numbers we all expected when he signed. He said something like the new scheme will be a breath of fresh air, and IMO, he could approach Donald type numbers this season. 
    • Stewart - will likely be on a snap count most games to keep him fresh, which is a good thing. Snaps got out of hand at times for him last season. While I don't necessarily see him getting a bunch of sacks (he'll likely come off the field a lot in obvious pass downs), I do believe his Ts and grades will both go up.
    • Dayo - as stated above, he's been working out with Mathis and Paye in the off season. Can't wait to see him this season. Should be fully recovered, and certainly will benefit from and offseason with Mathis. There's no doubt he's got crazy/freak measurables and upside. 3T size, with DE speed/agility. It'll be interesting to see who if Dayo is the primary to be inserted on passing downs when Grover comes out. Paye/Dayo/Buckner/Ngakoue could be downright nasty to opposing OLs. I like his chances this season to take a huge step forward. Ballard either looks like a genius here, or gets more DE-draft criticism once it's all said and done.
      • article on training with Mathis - https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/5/18/23125414/colts-dayo-odeyingbo-has-been-training-with-robert-mathis-as-2nd-year-breakout-potentially-looms
    • Lewis - was expected to fill the tweener roll opened up by Autry's move last season. Was grading pretty well (71.3) and had 3 sacks, before getting injured week 8. Assuming he's back to health, I think we can assume he'll be in the primary 6 man rotation. Depending on Dayo's use ("big end" or inside 3T on passing downs, or both), his snaps could suffer this season. Regardless, should be at minimum the 6th guy given his experience and production. 
• Key losses
  • AQM - DE
    • Signed a 2 year 8M total contract with the Bears
    • Had the 2nd most sacks for Indy last season (7), and second in pressures (19). 
    • Not stellar numbers, but decent. Not surprised we let him walk given our addition of Ngakoue, and expectations of Paye and Dayo. It likely came down to Lewis vs AQM, and Lewis likely has more value as he can play both Big End and 3T
  • Turay - Edge/LEO
    • Signed a one year 1.7M contract with SF
    • 5.5 sacks (career high) despite low snap counts all year. Only inactive 3 games, so was healthy enough to play most of the season. 
    • Given his cheap price, would have liked to see him as our backup LEO.
  • Stallworth - 3T
    • Signed a 1 year 1.2M contract with KC
    • Had the 3rd most pressures, despite only starting one game (he had over 50% of snaps in two games, once as starter).
    • Behind Defo, 3T has pretty much zero experience or tested production, so a little surprised we let him go given he signed a short term contract for looks to be the min. 
• Guys competing for a roster spot (final 3-4 spots)
  • Chris Williams NT: 6-2 / 302 - Likely the front runner for backup NT. Colts UDFA from 2020 and has spent some time on the roster, but mostly PS and reserve/futures contracts. The fact he's hung around is why I give him a leg up. That, and I don't see any other true NT types competing. 
  • Eric Johnson DT: 6-5 / 286 - our 5th round pick this year. Another small school guy. His stock went up a bit due to post season games (senior bowl and NFLPA) despite what NFL.com calls pedestrian tape (especially for the small school/conf competition). You could probably label him a tweener, but I just don't see him at DE. 
  • Curtis Brooks DT: 6-2 / 285 - a 6th round pick this year. He's considered more of an interior pass rush specialist or tweener, than every down anchor type. If Bradley likes to specialize, Brooks might find a spot as passing down specialist when Stewart comes out. 
  • Ben Banogu DE/LEO: 6-3 / 252 - we all know the story here. New scheme might give him new life at backup LEO and/or SAM. He's never been good at rushing the edge (better rushing inside the OT), but he's probably the closest we have to a true LEO after Ngakoue. It's his last year under contract, so the pressure is on. If he doesn't impress pre-season, won't be shocked to see him get cut. I do think he'll stand a decent chance in the new scheme if he's improved his outside rush. 
  • Kameron Cline DE/3T Tweener: 6-4 / 283 - another 2020 UDFA from a small school who has spent most time as a PS and reserve/futures guy. Total wild card as we haven't seen him the last two seasons. He's hung around, but the scheme change this year might be either a good, or bad thing for him. Always a long shot though.
  • RJ McIntosh 3T: 6-5 / 286 - 2018 5th round pick by the Giants that has bounced around to several teams. Comes from an athletic family, but a long shot. Didn't do a lot in college at Miami, left early, and then had thyroid issues in his first NFL year. Given we're his 4th team, chances are low IMO. 
  • Scott Patchan DE/3T: 6-6 / 270 - UDFA rook that has an interesting history. Started out as an IMG high school prospect (IMG is football factory for blue chippers). He then went to Miami and didn't find success in 4 years. Then transferred to CSU and put up 17 sacks and 27 TFLs in 16 games (albeit in the Mountain West) as an edge rusher. He's got good RAS for his size, but not really the twitch/agility you'd want in an edge. Good power/strength though. He played 6 seasons of CFB, so he's older than most kids drafted this year. Perhaps he converts from DE to 3T and finds a niche. I love his chances at PS if he doesn't make the 53. 
  • McKinnley Williams DT: 6-4 / 285 - UDFA rook. Another 6 year guy like Patchan, but not near the production. Huge long shot. 
  • Cullen Wick DE: 6-3 / 267: Small school UDFA. Good kid, but not a lot of production at a small school. Good RAS, which probably led to the interest. Long shot. 

As far as i know Dayo and Lewis both can play 3 technique. Im assuming Dayo should be the better of the 2 in an attacking front and based off some of the things we saw on film from him when it comes to shooting gaps. Hes got a similar size frame as Buckner. 

[krunk]

I actually think Banogu makes the team again. He plays really well in camp and preseason. Ballard already said from the beginning it would take a minute for him to develop. New scheme suits him better also.

[Solid84]

1. I’m pretty sure we keep Banogu - if he doesn’t fit Bradley’s scheme I don’t know what the point of drafting him was. I also think we stick with our 5th and 6th round picks. The last one I just picked one to be honest, I just don’t know them well enough to even make an educated guess. 
 

2. Defo will get around 9 sacks I think. Would love for him to just explode though and have a career year. I think he’s really looking forward to just getting after the QB. 
 

3. I said 8 for Paye. Solid production but I just don’t see him as a sack machine. Hope I’m wrong of course. 
 

4. 9 for Ngakoue. I think he’ll get a lot of focus from OCs but he’ll still be a big additionfor our defense. 
 

5. I voted 11th-16th. We have to get into the top half at least. The focus of our Dline under Bradley seems to be to get sacks and pressure. This and adding Ngakoue has to change our sack-totals and pressure% significantly. 

[krunk]

Ive got to see Brooks and Johnson play to get a more firm idea. I think i heard Ballard say at least 1 or maybe both of them can play 3 tech as well. Not sure if either plays DE. Im also interested to see if Buckner flexes out to play more DE this year in different rotations that we use.

[AwesomeAustin]

Just like the OL, I’m taking a wait and see approach.  Mainly bc I don’t know enough about Bradley’s scheme and how he uses each position. I would imagine the 3 tech will be used differently. Also don’t know exactly what responsibility the Big End has but I assume containment while rushing the passer. Biggest concern would be Leo depth. Only one listed I believe is Ben B and he has been a straight up bust so far in his career. 

[Myles]

Lots of people picking 3 players to have more combined sacks than the entire Colts team last year.  

[compuls1v3]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Lots of people picking 3 players to have more combined sacks than the entire Colts team last year.  

Well, we added a legit pass rusher that could get 10 plus sacks.  I voted 10 for DeFo because I think Paye and Ngakoue will open it up for him.  I picked 10 for Ngakoue and 7 for Paye.  I think that's very doable for Paye.  The 10+ for the other two might be wishful thinking, but having Gilmore on the backend also helps.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

Lots of people picking 3 players to have more combined sacks than the entire Colts team last year.  

You're definitely right about that, but, personally, I voted based on what we know so far. Bradley's defensive scheme has a lot more focus on the Dline getting after the QB and we added a legitimate pass rush specialist in Ngakoue.

This has to amount to more pressures and sacks otherwise it's going to look like a huge bungle by Ballard in my opinion. He got the DC and the scheme he wanted from the get go and he's taken steps to give Bradley the players he wanted.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, krunk said:

As far as i know Dayo and Lewis both can play 3 technique. Im assuming Dayo should be the better of the 2 in an attacking front and based off some of the things we saw on film from him when it comes to shooting gaps. Hes got a similar size frame as Buckner. 

I think both can play 3T too, but at least one of those guys, if not both, will be getting plenty of snaps at DE as well in our rotation vs the run. One of them (in a normal rotation) will go in and play iDL when Stewart goes out on passing downs. 

[John Hammonds]

I think Banogu's done.  When you spend the better part of two seasons as a healthy scratch, at a position that didn't have a lot of talent on the team to begin with...  Well...

 

[EastStreet]

5 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

I think Banogu's done.  When you spend the better part of two seasons as a healthy scratch, at a position that didn't have a lot of talent on the team to begin with...  Well...

 

 

While my confidence in BB is pretty low, there are very distinct differences in scheme (both LEO and SAM use) that may give him another chance. 

[EastStreet]

 

 

yes please

[NewColtsFan]

23 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Started digging on our DL, so doing a thread similar to the OL thread I recently did. 

 

• TLDR - I really like our primary 6 rotation, but after that, huge questions. Not really worried about true NT, but 3T seams very vulnerable. We could likely get by for a while if NT or DE had some short term injuries, but 3T would likely be a problem. 
• Assumed starters (6-man rotation) based on aggregate of current depth charts and articles
  • Run D / early downs
    • RDE - Dayo or Lewis
    • 3T - Buckner
    • NT - Stewart
    • LDE - Paye
  • Pass Rush
    • RDE/LEO - Ngakoue
    • 3T - Buckner
    • DT - Dayo or Lewis
    • LDE - Paye
  • Scheme comments and impacts
    • Transition from read/react to vertical gap rushing
      • At least during pass rushing, our guys will be on rails getting up field. This should do wonders for our sack and pressure totals, while perhaps being detrimental to run D if our LBs can't clean up. We were 
        • We were tied for 7th worst in sacks. Expect us to be at minimum middle of the pack this season, if not pushing to enter the top 10. Bradley had Ngakoue while DCing LVR, but he didn't have Buckner or Paye. Expect him to do better in this area than while at LVR.
        • We were 2nd worst in pressure % last season. Bradley was 15th best at LVR, and I'm guessing we'll better the LVR % if we remain healthy. My guess, 10ish. 
      • Buckner was quoted saying he can't wait to get on a rail and rush the QB in Bradley's scheme. IMO we'll see nice jumps in sacks and pressures from both Buckner and Paye. 
    • If adding a man-coverage guy like Gilmore reaps expected benefit (assuming our other DBs hold their own too), we could see a multiplier impact to the DL
  • Individual comments (6-man)
    • Ngakoue - Not saying that we'll never see him on run or early downs, but IMO, he'll be specialized primarily to pass rushing LEO. His run D issues are widely known. To me, that's not entirely bad, as he'll be fresh, and can focus on being a terror in the backfield on passing downs. He'll certainly see more early time vs teams with great QBs, or teams that throw a lot on early downs. Can't wait to see him T off on the edge. 
    • Paye - graded as one of the best, if not the best, rook DE. Should benefit a lot from the new scheme (see above). He and Buckner IMO will battle for top snaps along the DL. He's been working with Mathis in the offseason along with Dayo, so expect his pass rush to improve and also increase in variety. I'd like to see some stunting with him on the interior as well like how he was used at UM. If shuffled/stunted a few times a game, I think he could become a legit disruptor inside vs OGs. 
    • Buckner - like Paye, should benefit greatly from the new scheme. I think we'll finally see the numbers we all expected when he signed. He said something like the new scheme will be a breath of fresh air, and IMO, he could approach Donald type numbers this season. 
    • Stewart - will likely be on a snap count most games to keep him fresh, which is a good thing. Snaps got out of hand at times for him last season. While I don't necessarily see him getting a bunch of sacks (he'll likely come off the field a lot in obvious pass downs), I do believe his Ts and grades will both go up.
    • Dayo - as stated above, he's been working out with Mathis and Paye in the off season. Can't wait to see him this season. Should be fully recovered, and certainly will benefit from and offseason with Mathis. There's no doubt he's got crazy/freak measurables and upside. 3T size, with DE speed/agility. It'll be interesting to see who if Dayo is the primary to be inserted on passing downs when Grover comes out. Paye/Dayo/Buckner/Ngakoue could be downright nasty to opposing OLs. I like his chances this season to take a huge step forward. Ballard either looks like a genius here, or gets more DE-draft criticism once it's all said and done.
      • article on training with Mathis - https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/5/18/23125414/colts-dayo-odeyingbo-has-been-training-with-robert-mathis-as-2nd-year-breakout-potentially-looms
    • Lewis - was expected to fill the tweener roll opened up by Autry's move last season. Was grading pretty well (71.3) and had 3 sacks, before getting injured week 8. Assuming he's back to health, I think we can assume he'll be in the primary 6 man rotation. Depending on Dayo's use ("big end" or inside 3T on passing downs, or both), his snaps could suffer this season. Regardless, should be at minimum the 6th guy given his experience and production. 
• Key losses
  • AQM - DE
    • Signed a 2 year 8M total contract with the Bears
    • Had the 2nd most sacks for Indy last season (7), and second in pressures (19). 
    • Not stellar numbers, but decent. Not surprised we let him walk given our addition of Ngakoue, and expectations of Paye and Dayo. It likely came down to Lewis vs AQM, and Lewis likely has more value as he can play both Big End and 3T
  • Turay - Edge/LEO
    • Signed a one year 1.7M contract with SF
    • 5.5 sacks (career high) despite low snap counts all year. Only inactive 3 games, so was healthy enough to play most of the season. 
    • Given his cheap price, would have liked to see him as our backup LEO.
  • Stallworth - 3T
    • Signed a 1 year 1.2M contract with KC
    • Had the 3rd most pressures, despite only starting one game (he had over 50% of snaps in two games, once as starter).
    • Behind Defo, 3T has pretty much zero experience or tested production, so a little surprised we let him go given he signed a short term contract for looks to be the min. 
• Guys competing for a roster spot (final 3-4 spots)
  • Chris Williams NT: 6-2 / 302 - Likely the front runner for backup NT. Colts UDFA from 2020 and has spent some time on the roster, but mostly PS and reserve/futures contracts. The fact he's hung around is why I give him a leg up. That, and I don't see any other true NT types competing. 
  • Eric Johnson DT: 6-5 / 286 - our 5th round pick this year. Another small school guy. His stock went up a bit due to post season games (senior bowl and NFLPA) despite what NFL.com calls pedestrian tape (especially for the small school/conf competition). You could probably label him a tweener, but I just don't see him at DE. 
  • Curtis Brooks DT: 6-2 / 285 - a 6th round pick this year. He's considered more of an interior pass rush specialist or tweener, than every down anchor type. If Bradley likes to specialize, Brooks might find a spot as passing down specialist when Stewart comes out. 
  • Ben Banogu DE/LEO: 6-3 / 252 - we all know the story here. New scheme might give him new life at backup LEO and/or SAM. He's never been good at rushing the edge (better rushing inside the OT), but he's probably the closest we have to a true LEO after Ngakoue. It's his last year under contract, so the pressure is on. If he doesn't impress pre-season, won't be shocked to see him get cut. I do think he'll stand a decent chance in the new scheme if he's improved his outside rush. 
  • Kameron Cline DE/3T Tweener: 6-4 / 283 - another 2020 UDFA from a small school who has spent most time as a PS and reserve/futures guy. Total wild card as we haven't seen him the last two seasons. He's hung around, but the scheme change this year might be either a good, or bad thing for him. Always a long shot though.
  • RJ McIntosh 3T: 6-5 / 286 - 2018 5th round pick by the Giants that has bounced around to several teams. Comes from an athletic family, but a long shot. Didn't do a lot in college at Miami, left early, and then had thyroid issues in his first NFL year. Given we're his 4th team, chances are low IMO. 
  • Scott Patchan DE/3T: 6-6 / 270 - UDFA rook that has an interesting history. Started out as an IMG high school prospect (IMG is football factory for blue chippers). He then went to Miami and didn't find success in 4 years. Then transferred to CSU and put up 17 sacks and 27 TFLs in 16 games (albeit in the Mountain West) as an edge rusher. He's got good RAS for his size, but not really the twitch/agility you'd want in an edge. Good power/strength though. He played 6 seasons of CFB, so he's older than most kids drafted this year. Perhaps he converts from DE to 3T and finds a niche. I love his chances at PS if he doesn't make the 53. 
  • McKinnley Williams DT: 6-4 / 285 - UDFA rook. Another 6 year guy like Patchan, but not near the production. Huge long shot. 
  • Cullen Wick DE: 6-3 / 267: Small school UDFA. Good kid, but not a lot of production at a small school. Good RAS, which probably led to the interest. Long shot. 

Thanks for all of these.   You do a nice job.  
 

I don’t know if what I noticed is a typo or something else?   But you have Johnson, our 5th round pick, as 286.   I haven’t seen that anywhere.  The Colts list him as 299.   I think NFL.com as well.  And as for his tweener status,  you have it as between DT and DE.   I haven’t seen him as a DE anywhere.  All I’ve read is that he’s between a 1-tech and a 3-tech with the 1-tech much more likely.   Backup to Stewart.   I think this matches all the post-draft comments from Ballard and the scouts as well.   Just wanted to share that with you. 

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks for all of these.   You do a nice job.  
 

I don’t know if what I noticed is a typo or something else?   But you have Johnson, our 5th round pick, as 286.   I haven’t seen that anywhere.  The Colts list him as 299.   I think NFL.com as well.  And as for his tweener status,  you have it as between DT and DE.   I haven’t seen him as a DE anywhere.  All I’ve read is that he’s between a 1-tech and a 3-tech with the 1-tech much more likely.   Backup to Stewart.   I think this matches all the post-draft comments from Ballard and the scouts as well.   Just wanted to share that with you. 

 

The 286 probably comes from ESPN (depth chart tab).

 

Take a look at his SR Bowl highlights. Played snaps both inside and out. IIRC, all 3T and DE. 

 

Haven't seen any of his profiles project him at NT.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

The 286 probably comes from ESPN (depth chart tab).

 

Take a look at his SR Bowl highlights. Played snaps both inside and out. IIRC, all 3T and DE. 

 

Haven't seen any of his profiles project him at NT.

I think that came in the post draft interviews with scouts and the stories written by Indy media who are projecting them in the ‘22 lineup based on those comments. 

[holeymoley99]

Going to be close I like Patchan's chances to claim the final D line spot.

[EastStreet]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think that came in the post draft interviews with scouts and the stories written by Indy media who are projecting them in the ‘22 lineup based on those comments. 

No clue at NT comments. If he's 300+, then he might fit measurable wise, but that's not he's been used. Took a look back at his NFL.com profile, where they project him either 4-3 3T, or odd front DE. I assume he'll be 3T here, but wouldn't mind if turned out to be a NT. 

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

No clue at NT comments. If he's 300+, then he might fit measurable wise, but that's not he's been used. Took a look back at his NFL.com profile, where they project him either 4-3 3T, or odd front DE. I assume he'll be 3T here, but wouldn't mind if turned out to be a NT. 

So…. At the 3T, we have DeFo…. And both Dayo and Tyquan can back him up.  And now you think we spent a 5 and a 6 on two more 3T’s, Johnson and Brooks.  Five in all.
 

Okie-Dokie…  

[EastStreet]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

So…. At the 3T, we have DeFo…. And both Dayo and Tyquan can back him up.  And now you think we spent a 5 and a 6 on two more 3T’s, Johnson and Brooks.  Five in all.
 

Okie-Dokie…  

 

lol...

So you just yesterday diminished draft capital relevant to late rounders. Now you want to make a stand on late draft capital?

lololololol... pretty typical of you though.

 

Sure, Dayo and Lewis are tweeners and can play 3T if needed. But they are also now the primary DE depth. And that's compounded even more given Ngakoue will likely end up being a pass rush specialist (his poor run D is widely known), so one of those guys (Dayo or Lewis) will end up starting at DE (at least on run downs). Bradley's D is also know for deploying a "LEO" (small/fast) and a "Big End" (like it says, big). Paye of course will start opposite Ngakoue on passing downs, but he's not exactly "big". So assuming Gus's D hasn't evolved that much in the past two seasons, Dayo and Lewis should both get plenty of time at DE, and shift inside on pass downs. 

 

Specifically to the two picks....

Johnson - Might have missed something in the film on Johnson, but never saw him playing a traditional NT role. So thinking he's going to go from a MVC (small conference, low comp) tweener to an NFL NT year one is a little silly IMO. Perhaps in a year or two after some good S&C, who knows. I'd love it if he got stronger and could man the one tech, just not sure he's even built for it. 

 

Brooks - most profiles question his run support, or play or play strength in general when not one gapping. So he's definitely not a year one NT candidate. His frame is probably closer to NT though, but he'd need to add 20lbs. If he makes the roster, which is an IF, he'll likely be an iDL pass rush specialists, which is what he excelled at in Cinci.

 

And overall, I'd say Williams is currently in the driver seat for NT backup. Given NT itself is a devalued position in the NFL, and really only sees time on early and short yardage downs, just not sure there is even a need for another true NT option. 

[MikeCurtis]

I may be looking at this wrong.... my gut says we we need at least ONE more player to complete the DL rotation

 

MAYBE TWO

 

Someone that can add some sacks and pressures

 

I also have to look at the lack of 1 tech depth .........  we have ONE on the roster.... special prayers for safety and health for our  ONE 1 tech on DL

 

Es No Bueno

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:02 PM, EastStreet said:

 

lol...

So you just yesterday diminished draft capital relevant to late rounders. Now you want to make a stand on late draft capital?

lololololol... pretty typical of you though.

 

Sure, Dayo and Lewis are tweeners and can play 3T if needed. But they are also now the primary DE depth. And that's compounded even more given Ngakoue will likely end up being a pass rush specialist (his poor run D is widely known), so one of those guys (Dayo or Lewis) will end up starting at DE (at least on run downs). Bradley's D is also know for deploying a "LEO" (small/fast) and a "Big End" (like it says, big). Paye of course will start opposite Ngakoue on passing downs, but he's not exactly "big". So assuming Gus's D hasn't evolved that much in the past two seasons, Dayo and Lewis should both get plenty of time at DE, and shift inside on pass downs. 

 

Specifically to the two picks....

Johnson - Might have missed something in the film on Johnson, but never saw him playing a traditional NT role. So thinking he's going to go from a MVC (small conference, low comp) tweener to an NFL NT year one is a little silly IMO. Perhaps in a year or two after some good S&C, who knows. I'd love it if he got stronger and could man the one tech, just not sure he's even built for it. 

 

Brooks - most profiles question his run support, or play or play strength in general when not one gapping. So he's definitely not a year one NT candidate. His frame is probably closer to NT though, but he'd need to add 20lbs. If he makes the roster, which is an IF, he'll likely be an iDL pass rush specialists, which is what he excelled at in Cinci.

 

And overall, I'd say Williams is currently in the driver seat for NT backup. Given NT itself is a devalued position in the NFL, and really only sees time on early and short yardage downs, just not sure there is even a need for another true NT option. 

 

Speaking of LOL?!?      

 

Once again the English language fails you.    You're reading comprehension is astoundingly bad.

 

My reference to the lesser value of Day 3 picks was talking ONLY about using them on a guy who is a candidate to be a back-up quarterback.     Period.    Full stop.    If you hit on a Day 3 QB, the value is enormous.   If you miss, the investment is small.   Certainly less than teams who use a 2 or a 3 on a potential backup.     Is this really that hard?    Of course not.

 

I literally gave you an open book test with the correct answers marked,  but since it disagrees with your narrative,  it can't be wrong,   because YOU can never be wrong.      I even spelled it out telling you that Ballard and the scouts didn't reference Johnson as a DE.    They said he was a bit of a tweener between the 1 and the 3,  with 1 being the more likely landing spot.     So you're not disagreeing with me.    You're disagreeing with the Colt front office.    But, you being you,  you know better!     Been that way since the day you arrived.

 

Quick!   Go run and find more Next Gen stats....    I'm sure you've got them.    Unless of course they disagree with you.

 

And you wonder why we couldn't even talk about Covid?      Dear God.....     

[EastStreet]

On 5/23/2022 at 1:56 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Speaking of LOL?!?      

 

Once again the English language fails you.    You're reading comprehension is astoundingly bad.

 

My reference to the lesser value of Day 3 picks was talking ONLY about using them on a guy who is a candidate to be a back-up quarterback.     Period.    Full stop.    If you hit on a Day 3 QB, the value is enormous.   If you miss, the investment is small.   Certainly less than teams who use a 2 or a 3 on a potential backup.     Is this really that hard?    Of course not.

 

I literally gave you an open book test with the correct answers marked,  but since it disagrees with your narrative,  it can't be wrong,   because YOU can never be wrong.      I even spelled it out telling you that Ballard and the scouts didn't reference Johnson as a DE.    They said he was a bit of a tweener between the 1 and the 3,  with 1 being the more likely landing spot.     So you're not disagreeing with me.    You're disagreeing with the Colt front office.    But, you being you,  you know better!     Been that way since the day you arrived.

 

Quick!   Go run and find more Next Gen stats....    I'm sure you've got them.    Unless of course they disagree with you.

 

And you wonder why we couldn't even talk about Covid?      Dear God.....     

 

 

English fail? Reading fail? lol

 

My write up above calls Johnson a DT. Not 3T, not 1T. I even said while others (actual experts) call him a tweener, that I just can't see him at DE.... 

 

Read much?

 

And then I replied to your comments, saying he played both inside and outside in the SR Bowl, and other films.

 

Film much?

[coltsfan1965]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:24 PM, MikeCurtis said:

I may be looking at this wrong.... my gut says we we need at least ONE more player to complete the DL rotation

 

MAYBE TWO

 

Someone that can add some sacks and pressures

 

I also have to look at the lack of 1 tech depth .........  we have ONE on the roster.... special prayers for safety and health for our  ONE 1 tech on DL

 

Es No Bueno

 

 

 

 

I would definitely not be surprised to see them bring in more DL who get cut from other teams. Yes, we need someone to backup at the 1 tech. That player is likely not on the roster yet. 

I'm also not sure how much they will want to rotate. Do you try to give Defo fewer snaps and keep him fresh if you trust Dayo or someone else to make the same types of plays? At what point do you go to a straight pass rush line that you trust can do enough against the run? 3rd and 4? 3rd and 6? 

Also, here's hoping we can get to a lead often enough to force other teams to throw. 

[EastStreet]

Decent article on the DL from Stampede Blue.

 

Of the smaller things to note, I agree with him that Stallworth and Turay would have been nice to keep. Both signed very cheap deals, and both were very productive in depth roles. 

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/6/1/23132665/how-much-have-the-colts-improved-defensive-line

[AwesomeAustin]

26 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Decent article on the DL from Stampede Blue.

 

Of the smaller things to note, I agree with him that Stallworth and Turay would have been nice to keep. Both signed very cheap deals, and both were very productive in depth roles. 

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/6/1/23132665/how-much-have-the-colts-improved-defensive-line

I could easily see Turay putting up bigger numbers in SF.  That is a loaded DL and he should see plenty of one on ones. I could also see him getting injured and missing 1/3 of the season. 

[EastStreet]

Just now, AwesomeAustin said:

I could easily see Turay putting up bigger numbers in SF.  That is a loaded DL and he should see plenty of one on ones. I could also see him getting injured and missing 1/3 of the season. 

 

Yup. Injury issues aside, he was very cheap lol... And he's a great fit for backup LEO. 

Wonder if we had a chance to meet the low price, or even tried if we did. 

[AwesomeAustin]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup. Injury issues aside, he was very cheap lol... And he's a great fit for backup LEO. 

Wonder if we had a chance to meet the low price, or even tried if we did. 

Maybe he wanted to play on the west coast. Gus Bradley could of said he wasn’t a good fit. I don’t know how much Turay played standing up. Hard to say what decisions are being made behind closed doors. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Maybe he wanted to play on the west coast. Gus Bradley could of said he wasn’t a good fit. I don’t know how much Turay played standing up. Hard to say what decisions are being made behind closed doors. 

 

IDK... He's an East Coast kid. IIRC, parents migrated from Africa, and he grew up in NJ. Went to HS and college there. 

Trait wise, and college background, he's a perfect LEO fit. His NFL draft profile even compared him to Ngakoue lol... 

He played plenty standing up. 

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

IDK... He's an East Coast kid. IIRC, parents migrated from Africa, and he grew up in NJ. Went to HS and college there. 

Trait wise, and college background, he's a perfect LEO fit. His NFL draft profile even compared him to Ngakoue lol... 

He played plenty standing up. 

Then I’m guessing playing time. He only played 25% of snaps so should increase in SF. Kinda crazy he got 5.5 sacks with that little action. 

[DaColts85]

13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Decent article on the DL from Stampede Blue.

 

Of the smaller things to note, I agree with him that Stallworth and Turay would have been nice to keep. Both signed very cheap deals, and both were very productive in depth roles. 

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2022/6/1/23132665/how-much-have-the-colts-improved-defensive-line

Yea I was very upset they let Stallworth walk for Pennie’s. That guy was very good last year and is still young. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Then I’m guessing playing time. He only played 25% of snaps so should increase in SF. Kinda crazy he got 5.5 sacks with that little action. 

SF's DL is pretty good already. He'll be a pass rush specialist, likely coming in on passing downs behind Ford.... That is, if he can beat out Drake Jackson (who they just drafted early). 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Yea I was very upset they let Stallworth walk for Pennie’s. That guy was very good last year and is still young. 

Yup. He was very productive in limited snaps, and was probably closer to a true backup for Defo than anyone else. All I can guess is that they are happy with Dayo or Lewis (both tweeners thus far) backing up 3T. While I like both those guys, Dayo is completely unproven on this stage, and Lewis has been more of a tweener coming in on passing downs when Defo shifts in and Grover comes out. Hope Defo stays healthy!!!

[holeymoley99]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. He was very productive in limited snaps, and was probably closer to a true backup for Defo than anyone else. All I can guess is that they are happy with Dayo or Lewis (both tweeners thus far) backing up 3T. While I like both those guys, Dayo is completely unproven on this stage, and Lewis has been more of a tweener coming in on passing downs when Defo shifts in and Grover comes out. Hope Defo stays healthy!!!

But its not always about matching the salary numbers as we know, he could have felt easier to get more snaps vs easier competition elsewhere. I liked what he did last season, drummed his performances up many times. Wish him well.

[Jackie Daytona]

On 5/19/2022 at 2:46 AM, EastStreet said:

Started digging on our DL, so doing a thread similar to the OL thread I recently did. 

 

• TLDR - I really like our primary 6 rotation, but after that, huge questions. Not really worried about true NT, but 3T seams very vulnerable. We could likely get by for a while if NT or DE had some short term injuries, but 3T would likely be a problem.

You think 3T is more of a problem depth wise than NT?  

 

We have like one guy other than our starters who weighs over 300# and he's not real experienced.  

 

As for 3T possibilities.... You have Dayo, Lewis, both our late round guys this year, Kline, etc.... Even Paye on a 3 and long once in a while.....

 

[EastStreet]

49 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

But its not always about matching the salary numbers as we know, he could have felt easier to get more snaps vs easier competition elsewhere. I liked what he did last season, drummed his performances up many times. Wish him well.

He'll be behind Chris Jones, one of the highest grading DLs in the league. So pretty much the same situation he had in Indy. 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

You think 3T is more of a problem depth wise than NT?  

 

We have like one guy other than our starters who weighs over 300# and he's not real experienced.  

 

As for 3T possibilities.... You have Dayo, Lewis, both our late round guys this year, Kline, etc.... Even Paye on a 3 and long once in a while.....

 

Yes. 

Grover is firmly entrenched at NT. And we only use NT about 60-70% of snaps. NT is also a devalued position in the NFL. So I'm more than OK with Williams as depth. It's just not a position I prioritize or worry about in general. The days of old school NTs that are space fillers is pretty much over. A lot more one gapping these days. 

 

Dayo has only played DE thus far. I agree he has traits, but he's totally unproven (at DE and 3T). Lewis only really has played 3T in passing downs when Grover comes out and Defo shifts. But if Defo went down, I wouldn't bank on either of those guys creating havoc and taking doubles like Defo has. 

 

Paye is a light guy. I love him to shift in on obvious passing downs, but he's not backup type for Defo. 

[jonjon]

Didn't vote because I have no clue what a "Defo" is. I think we will be improved, but not dramatically.