Why does the whole Andrew Luck situation make me mad still

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So your argument that coaches held the ball for 2016? How about 2012-15? Was that his fault too?

Not that coaches held the ball….  That Luck held the ball too long too often. 
 

And let’s not act like East Street is the first to make this observation.   A good number of posters have said the same thing, including me.  
 

There were at least three major issues… (maybe more) 

 

The style of play was the biggest problem.  Pagano liked an offense that liked going for big chunk plays.   Arians ran it.  Hamilton did too.  So did Chudzinski.  Am I forgetting anyone?   
 

The OL was not great.   Enough said. 
 

But Luck often held the ball too long hoping to find a big play downfield.  I think Luck always felt if he didn’t make a big play the offense was going to stall out. 

We can add the lack of quality receivers.  The lack of a decent running game.  But Luck holding the ball played a part in his short career.   How much, we’ll never know. 

 

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Huh?

Anyway, I've provided stats, grades, Luck's own words, his OC's words, and his QBC's words. There are all kinds of articles on the topic if you do a simple search. But nothing provided will change your eye test opinion lol. You've provided nothing, so I'm not going to make the effort to provide more, as it simply won't matter. I've made my point. 

 

Your point is indicative of one year. I already admitted Andrew held the ball, but I'm not letting go of the idea that Andrew had a line. He did not have a line.

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not that coaches held the ball….  That Luck held the ball too long too often. 
 

And let’s not act like East Street is the first to make this observation.   A good number of posters have said the same thing, including me.  
 

There were at least three major issues… (maybe more) 

 

The style of play was the biggest problem.  Pagano liked an offense that liked going for big chunk plays.   Arians ran it.  Hamilton did too.  So did Chudzinski.  Am I forgetting anyone?   
 

The OL was not great.   Enough said. 
 

But Luck often held the ball too long hoping to find a big play downfield.  I think Luck always felt if he didn’t make a big play the offense was going to stall out. 

We can add the lack of quality receivers.  The lack of a decent running game.  But Luck holding the ball played a part in his short career.   How much, we’ll never know. 

 

 

I'll definitely say Andrew's play shorten his career. There is no arguing that, but let's not act like Andrew's play style wasn't done out of necessity. Andrew knew it was on him to win and it wasn't exactly like he had help. No run game. Subpar weapons. Average at best defense. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not that coaches held the ball….  That Luck held the ball too long too often. 
 

And let’s not act like East Street is the first to make this observation.   A good number of posters have said the same thing, including me.  
 

There were at least three major issues… (maybe more) 

 

The style of play was the biggest problem.  Pagano liked an offense that liked going for big chunk plays.   Arians ran it.  Hamilton did too.  So did Chudzinski.  Am I forgetting anyone?   
 

The OL was not great.   Enough said. 
 

But Luck often held the ball too long hoping to find a big play downfield.  I think Luck always felt if he didn’t make a big play the offense was going to stall out. 

We can add the lack of quality receivers.  The lack of a decent running game.  But Luck holding the ball played a part in his short career.   How much, we’ll never know. 

 

The bolded was huge. I almost posted an article that went down that path, but didn't want to further muddy the waters. I recall several articles and comments by coaches that Luck has such high confidence in his arm/ability, he simply never wanted to give up on a play. I love that type of ability and confidence, but it can come at a cost (sacks/injury). But again, not blaming it all on Luck, not by any means. OL, GM, scheme, and Luck, all contributed. It's not a simple "one fault" topic. 

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Your point is indicative of one year. I already admitted Andrew held the ball, but I'm not letting go of the idea that Andrew had a line. He did not have a line.

It was not one year. I provided stats, at least OL ranks, for several years. The comments made by the OC and QBC were based on 2015 situation. Others from while the 2016 season was happening. The narrative was discussed by many his entire career, but simply became more prevalent when he started getting hurt. Like I've said multiple times, I'm not putting this all on Luck. He was part of the overall issue though. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Andrew Luck deserves to make the ROH. Nobody is going to tell me different. He had 3 very good years as in 2012, 2013, and 2018 and 1 great year as in 2014. He put up MVP type numbers when he threw for 40 TDs and over 4500 yards in 2014. He also has won 4 playoff games. You guys realize he has more playoff wins than Lamar Jackson, Tony Romo, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr has, and has as many that Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers has, 4. Luck accomplished alot with no run game to speak of and a bad to sometimes average O.Line. He carried our team many years. The way he retired sucks but that has nothing to do with his play on the field.

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew Luck deserves to make the ROH. Nobody is going to tell me different. He had 3 very good years as in 2012, 2013, and 2018 and 1 great year as in 2014. He put up MVP type numbers when he threw for 40 TDs and over 4500 yards in 2014. He also has won 4 playoff games. You guys realize he has more playoff wins than Lamar Jackson, Tony Romo, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr has, and has as many that Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers has, 4. Luck accomplished alot with no run game to speak of and a bad to sometimes average O.Line. He carried our team many years. The way he retired sucks but that has nothing to do with his play on the field.

What is impressive is Luck has as many playoff wins as does Ryan and Rivers, 4. Rivers gets credited for 5 but Billy Volek is the QB that beat us in 2007. IMO, Ryan and Rivers are HOF QBs.

[Yoshinator]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andrew Luck deserves to make the ROH. Nobody is going to tell me different. He had 3 very good years as in 2012, 2013, and 2018 and 1 great year as in 2014. He put up MVP type numbers when he threw for 40 TDs and over 4500 yards in 2014. He also has won 4 playoff games. You guys realize he has more playoff wins than Lamar Jackson, Tony Romo, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr has, and has as many that Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers has, 4. Luck accomplished alot with no run game to speak of and a bad to sometimes average O.Line. He carried our team many years. The way he retired sucks but that has nothing to do with his play on the field.

Agree with the years. I won't deny that. Lamar Jackson will have more playoff wins than Luck. He entered the league in 2018, it'll happen soon. Romo was an undrafted guy, he had the complete opposite story of Luck, and had to work his way up the ladder for 3 years before being the starting QB of the Cowboys. He overperformed being an undrafted QB by a mile. That's a bad comparison. Tannehill is a fair comparison since they are from the same class. They are close right now and Luck is/was better, but Tannehill is still playing, and availability is the best ability. Derek Carr is a good comparison as well, and we'll see how he does this year. He was a 2nd rounder and has done a decent job in his career. 

 

As far as Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers go, Matt Ryan made a SB, Luck didn't. Ryan was on the unfortunate side of blowing a 28-3 lead in the SB and losing what was probably a 95% win probability or more. That will haunt him forever. He still got closer than Luck though, and i would of taken Ryan's career over Luck because of that. Rivers is basically Luck with a longer career. Like I said with Tannehill though, availability is the best ability. 

 

No one will agree with me on this, but If I could guarantee we'd still get Ballard, i would of rather just had RGIII instead of Luck or traded down and accumulated a bunch of picks. At least then, in either scenario, we wouldn't of felt the after effects of the Luck retirement, and we would of got a head start on our new QB. I hate to say it, but Luck not busting and retiring hurt us more than if Luck would of just busted or never been with us. What happened to the Colts was truly the worst-case scenario.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Agree with the years. I won't deny that. Lamar Jackson will have more playoff wins than Luck. He entered the league in 2018, it'll happen soon. Romo was an undrafted guy, he had the complete opposite story of Luck, and had to work his way up the ladder for 3 years before being the starting QB of the Cowboys. He overperformed being an undrafted QB by a mile. That's a bad comparison. Tannehill is a fair comparison since they are from the same class. They are close right now and Luck is/was better, but Tannehill is still playing, and availability is the best ability. Derek Carr is a good comparison as well, and we'll see how he does this year. He was a 2nd rounder and has done a decent job in his career. 

 

As far as Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers go, Matt Ryan made a SB, Luck didn't. Ryan was on the unfortunate side of blowing a 28-3 lead in the SB and losing what was probably a 95% win probability or more. That will haunt him forever. He still got closer than Luck though, and i would of taken Ryan's career over Luck because of that. Rivers is basically Luck with a longer career. Like I said with Tannehill though, availability is the best ability. 

 

No one will agree with me on this, but If I could guarantee we'd still get Ballard, i would of rather just had RGIII instead of Luck or traded down and accumulated a bunch of picks. At least then, in either scenario, we wouldn't of felt the after effects of the Luck retirement, and we would of got a head start on our new QB. I hate to say it, but Luck not busting and retiring hurt us more than if Luck would of just busted or never been with us. What happened to the Colts was truly the worst-case scenario.

It was a bad scenario but Luck was a very good QB. He isn't a HOFamer but kept us relevant for years. RG3 had a great rookie year but after that he was bust but because of injury. RG seems like a great guy though so I won't bash him but Luck was the better QB.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

I'll definitely say Andrew's play shorten his career. There is no arguing that, but let's not act like Andrew's play style wasn't done out of necessity. Andrew knew it was on him to win and it wasn't exactly like he had help. No run game. Subpar weapons. Average at best defense. 

Yes….  I’m with you on that point.   Luck felt it was necessary.    There are people here who like to describe Luck by comparing him to Brett Favre and call Luck a Gunslinger.  
 

I always laugh at that, because he was rarely that way in college, where he had a very good run game and better than normal Stanford level defenses to help him.   He rarely gambled.   But that changed in the NFL when he had much less support all around him. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

The bolded was huge. I almost posted an article that went down that path, but didn't want to further muddy the waters. I recall several articles and comments by coaches that Luck has such high confidence in his arm/ability, he simply never wanted to give up on a play. I love that type of ability and confidence, but it can come at a cost (sacks/injury). But again, not blaming it all on Luck, not by any means. OL, GM, scheme, and Luck, all contributed. It's not a simple "one fault" topic. 

 

Yes…. Agreed….   I find most problems in life are rarely “one fault” issues.  They’re often complex with all sorts of factors playing a roll to one degree or another.   Sometimes it’s different problems for different games, depending on the opponent and circumstance.   One size fits all problems and solutions rarely, if ever, work for me. 
 

I’m hungry to get past the mess of last year.   Would like to see something resembling a stable season.  I’ll take our chances if we can just catch a break here and there.  Perhaps fewer injuries?   Perhaps better play calling?   Perhaps a few unexpected performers?   Feels like three straight years of more bad than good.   Perhaps we can get some better luck?   (No pun intended). 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Luck actually has the same amount of playoff wins as Matt Stafford,4. Because Stafford won the SB last year nobody will look at that. Stafford has been in the league since 2009. Look at the team that Stafford was on last year though, it was loaded. Regarding Lucks type of play, he had to play reckless at times otherwise we had no chance of winning. He had to make plays with his legs and arm. The guy took a beating beyond belief. Pee blood and tell me how a laceration of a kidney feels than call me.

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Here you go again….  Read this thread…. A number of posters here are saying the same thing I have..   that odds are strong that Luck was ready to retire much earlier in the off-season and was encouraged to hold off his decision in the hope he’d heal, feel better, and change his mind.
 

He’s the son of an NFL QB….  He knows the right thing to do.  The idea that he’d screw his teammates goes against everything Luck has done in his career.   Why you choose to believe this is a complete mystery.   If he had screwed the team, I don’t see Irsay giving him a $25 mill going away gift.   He’s a guy driven to do the right thing and not be selfish.  And yet you act like you don’t know Luck at all.   You’ve been attached to a false narrative for years.  And it boils over with Luck being a coward, a wimp, a p***y.    
 

I know it doesn’t matter what I say.  God could tell you you’re wrong and you’re not changing your view.   I’m sorry that you wasted 7 years of being a Colts fan with Luck here.  You clearly learned nothing about him.   How sad. 

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

So you're mad because he was doing tricks on a snowboard? Taylor went on a survival trip in a blizzard. Where was your complaints then? Also every QB is gonna rush back as quickly as they can especially if you're the franchise of your team.

Nope not mad at all

[Myles]

16 hours ago, BProland85 said:

The issue is they think their GM is much better than Ballard, which I find ridiculous, as I live in Nashville and see first hand all the dumb decisions Robinson makes. I agree Ballard makes occasional dumb decisions too like trading what he did for Wentz for example, but for the most part he does things very calculated. Go visit the Titans message board. You'll see just how Titans fans think of the Colts. I just hope Reich doesn't screw things up and instead prepares this team like it should be because we should not lose to them this season if he has a quality gameplan.  

Colts fans think their GM is much better than Robinson.  The Titans have won the division the past few years.  I have no interest in visiting the Titans forum.   To me, it seems some Colts fans are the pot calling the kettle black.  

[Nickster]

19 hours ago, DougDew said:

Once you have financial security, the only reason these guys play football is for the competitiveness or the glory.  These are two personality  traits that most people do not possess in abundance.  Competitiveness is usually drawn out in most people because of their pursuit of financial security, so its a trait that most can relate to and have, but its a trait that gets drawn out by circumstances.  Being nice and sharing what abundant things you have is more natural, JMO.   Seeking glory is just plain weird, LOL.

 

To retire after you make $125M sounds like common sense to me.  

I agree with most of this but there is also the locker room.  There’s nothing really like being part of a team.  A lot of dudes talk about that.  it’s not always great but it’s fulfilling for a lot of us.

 

I’d retire tomorrow if I had 500k let alone 125m lol.
 

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

 

That is absurd. It does not merit a reply.

 

[John Hammonds]

I think we've gotten ourselves diverted over to the old, long-argued discussion of whether or not Luck was a jerk for "quitting".  And perhaps forgotten the OP question of why does that whole situation still affect us three years later.

 

It affects us still today because it was an event that had lasting repercussions.

When you suck, and you don't have a quarterback, you have an opportunity to take a (hopefully) franchise QB with a top 5 pick.  If you already have a QB, you take something else.  In our case, a transformational guard.  We were expecting an arc of success from that point, reaching through today, where we're in the playoffs every year, and competing for superbowls.

And then our franchise QB retired mere days before the 2019 season.  And that event blew that expected arc of success to smithereens.  Instead, we're on our 4th quarterback in 4 years, desperately trying to find someone who can resurrect that expectation, without success.

If we wanted a true franchise QB of the future, we would have had to suck.  And suck badly.  In order to get the required top 5 pick.  And we were unwilling to do that.  So, while we're floundering in mediocrity trying to even get into the playoffs, we're watching other teams that did suck take QB after QB (Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Mac Jones).  And with every QB choice, we growl and fuss.  Because had we known that we would have lost Luck, we would have taken a franchise QB when we had the chance.

It sucks.  And it continues to suck.  Three years later.  I expect it will continue to affect us through the 2026 season (where I have predicted the Ballard era will end, after the bulk of his players come to the end of their functional playing days).

It's a cloud that's gonna follow us.  And keep following us.  And keep following us.  And keep....

[CR91]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

 

I hope for your sake you're joking

[CR91]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It was not one year. I provided stats, at least OL ranks, for several years. The comments made by the OC and QBC were based on 2015 situation. Others from while the 2016 season was happening. The narrative was discussed by many his entire career, but simply became more prevalent when he started getting hurt. Like I've said multiple times, I'm not putting this all on Luck. He was part of the overall issue though. 

 

I already agreed with you he held on to the ball, but let's not act like the o-line did Andrew favors. Andrew understood the situation that it was on him to win the game because the run game was terrible, the weapons outside of T.Y was non-existent, and defense while had their moments was suspect majority of the time.

[Tsarquise]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes…. Agreed….   I find most problems in life are rarely “one fault” issues.  They’re often complex with all sorts of factors playing a roll to one degree or another.   Sometimes it’s different problems for different games, depending on the opponent and circumstance.   One size fits all problems and solutions rarely, if ever, work for me. 
 

I’m hungry to get past the mess of last year.   Would like to see something resembling a stable season.  I’ll take our chances if we can just catch a break here and there.  Perhaps fewer injuries?   Perhaps better play calling?   Perhaps a few unexpected performers?   Feels like three straight years of more bad than good.   Perhaps we can get some better luck?   (No pun intended). 

Yeah, that's why I find it maddening when people attribute Lucks retirement exclusively to Grigson. It's such a travesty. And I am NO Grigson fan. 

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

JaMarcus Russell says hi.

[Four2itus]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

JaMarcus Russell says hi.

Also.....I don't believe that NFL tickets or season tickets say,

 

"This ticket guarantees the participation of all players on the team". 

[Myles]

22 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I already agreed with you he held on to the ball, but let's not act like the o-line did Andrew favors. Andrew understood the situation that it was on him to win the game because the run game was terrible, the weapons outside of T.Y was non-existent, and defense while had their moments was suspect majority of the time.

I'm not so sure about that.  Wayne was there for a couple years.  Doyle was there for a few years.  Gore was there for a couple years.  Dorsett and Moncreif weren't great.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

Im not sure if you were responding to me or someone else?  Or if you were going for a joke or not?    Care to explain?

 

You lost me here……

[CR91]

46 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Wayne was there for a couple years.  Doyle was there for a few years.  Gore was there for a couple years.  Dorsett and Moncreif weren't great.

 

Wayne had one good year and then tore his ACL. Doyle wasn't really Doyle til like 2015-2016. Gore wasn't exactly in his prime.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Tsarquise said:

Yeah, that's why I find it maddening when people attribute Lucks retirement exclusively to Grigson. It's such a travesty. And I am NO Grigson fan. 

Yes….   I’m with you here.   It’s an oversimplification.    People love to say Grigson didn’t try to fix the O-line.  
 

I think he tried a lot….  And failed a lot.   The line got modestly better, but was never better than average.   And there were issues everywhere else.  
 

There were lots of issues with Luck’s retirement which is why I think Luck owed it to the fan base to explain what happened.   That’s why I always say Luck completely botched his own retirement as badly as possible.   Obviously not deliberately, but for a very smart guy, it was handled so poorly.   
Disappointing as a fan, but I’ve tried to move on. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Luck was the biggest draft bust since Ryan Leaf

I have always thought you have been a good poster (have nothing against you personally) but with all due respect this is the dumbest most ridiculous post I have seen in here in the 7 years I have been here. I have seen hundreds of ridiculous posts but this has me doing this  . Sorry but that is not even an opinion you stated, that is trolling. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

I hope for your sake you're joking

I don't think he is, sad, I can never take anything he says again seriously. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

34 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Wayne had one good year and then tore his ACL. Doyle wasn't really Doyle til like 2015-2016. Gore wasn't exactly in his prime.

The only year Wayne was very good, not even great in the Luck era was 2012. In Luck's first 3 years he had 1 game where a RB rushed for over 100 yards. He had a bad O.Line, average Defense at best and we won 11 games 3 years in a row and would've been in the SB if the Patriots weren't in our way. Without Luck we were a 5 win team in 2012-2014. People can slice it how they want, I seen the guy win 11 games 3 years in a row doing a lot of it by himself. I would like to see anyone comeback from a lacerated kidney, pee blood, and a bad shoulder and still want to play. His snowboarding accident had nothing to do with his football injury, that is how many people are wrong about that but want to run with it. Oh well, have at it haters. Comical! I am sick of people ripping this guy when they have no clue what the hell they are talking about, if they can do that, then I have a right to defend him. 

[Myles]

33 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes….   I’m with you here.   It’s an oversimplification.    People love to say Grigson didn’t try to fix the O-line.  
 

I think he tried a lot….  And failed a lot.   The line got modestly better, but was never better than average.   And there were issues everywhere else.  
 

 

If he failed, much of Luck's retirement does fall on Grigson.   I do think he tried, but he did fail.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

When he makes the ROH I am making a thread and dance around and do this to rub it in to his haters

[2006Coltsbestever]

38 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Wayne had one good year and then tore his ACL. Doyle wasn't really Doyle til like 2015-2016. Gore wasn't exactly in his prime.

100% correct.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is absurd. It does not merit a reply.

 

That was the entire point... yet you replied 

[csmopar]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When he makes the ROH I am making a thread and dance around and do this to rub it in to his haters

And I’ll be leading the boos from row 300

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I hope for your sake you're joking

47 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have always thought you have been a good poster (have nothing against you personally) but with all due respect this is the dumbest most ridiculous post I have seen in here in the 7 years I have been here. I have seen hundreds of ridiculous posts but this has me doing this  . Sorry but that is not even an opinion you stated, that is trolling. 

Oh it was definitely sarcasm 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im not sure if you were responding to me or someone else?  Or if you were going for a joke or not?    Care to explain?

 

You lost me here……

Everytime there’s a thread on luck, someone calls him a bust and says we should have kept Peyton . I just decided to be sarcastic and beat that person to the punch

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Everytime there’s a thread on luck, someone calls him a bust and says we should have kept Peyton . I just decided to be sarcastic and beat that person to the punch

Thanks….   Fair enough.   I knew there was a good explanation.   The post was completely not like you, and that’s intended as a compliment!     

[csmopar]

46 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When he makes the ROH I am making a thread and dance around and do this to rub it in to his haters

Luck figuratively spit in the faces of fans and teammates. Period. I don’t by for a single second that he didn’t have his mind made up long before he claims. And to come out, say that, and then go thru warmups in front of fans 30 minutes before he retires, yeah come on. 

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks….   Fair enough.   I knew there was a good explanation.   The post was completely not like you, and that’s intended as a compliment!     

Sometimes it’s hard not to poke fun

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks….   Fair enough.   I knew there was a good explanation.   The post was completely not like you, and that’s intended as a compliment!     

Thanks