Colts Select WR Alec Pierce

[Indeee]

7 minutes ago, CardiacColts said:

I agree with you. I think QB play had a lot to do with the separation visible on tape. 
 

That being said, every draft pick is an unknown as you have mentioned. Heck, Cooper Kupp had a 6.20 prospect grade and was tagged with “will eventually be an average starter.” 
 

Alec could go on to be elite, or he could pan out below average. He has the tools to get it done. Not to mention, I don’t think his acclimation to NFL caliber corners will be very steep. I mean the guy legit went against Sauce everyday in practice. He could turn out to be more pro ready that some on here would like to believe. Not to mention, I have complete confidence that if anyone can clean up his route running, it will be Reggie! 
 

Personally, I am VERY excited about this off season! 

I took that into consideration and that might be a factor as well, but you have to remember that Ryan's arm strength isn't what it used to be either. I'm not just doing this to validate my point on Pierce, I'm just saying that if his separation issues are a product of sporadic QB play too then how are we really ever going to tell if Ryan's QB play on deep balls is sporadic as well?

[DougDew]

George Pickens RAS.  Not as fast.  Only good explosion instead of elite.  Didn't run the agility tests. (torn ACL might have had something to do with that)

 

 

And posting TY Hiltons again since we're at the top of the page.

 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

32 minutes ago, Indeee said:

At that point, if I would've stayed put, I would've taken the LB Dean as BPA. I only thought Pickens and Watson had the ceilings we really needed out of all WR's left. They were both gone. That's why I keep saying Ballard got took by not being aggressive on those two guys. 

Yeah…the Colts GM “got took.” 

[Never_Quit]

 

28 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Dude, he is a JAG. I don't care of you refuse to see it. He will be a fine player I'm sure but he does not have the make-up to ever become truly elite. The Colts need Elite. Pierce will play hard, practice well, who cares. He does not have the ceiling to become elite. Pickens and Watson have those traits at least. Does it mean Watson and Pickens will become Elite? No, however they were the top two out of those three and we got the latter. That is a failure. 

 

We need a reliable WR opposite Pittman. This team has no WR2. We didnt have a first round pick.  Ballard himself said there are only 5-6 elite blue chip players in the entire draft. Trading back and getting Pierce was a great move. 

 

wElL i WaNt MoRe ElItE pLaYeRs!!

 

Well I want a crazy hot redhead who wants to get back at her dad with me for a weekend, but we've gotta play the hand we're dealt. 

[Indeee]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

George Pickens RAS.  Not as fast.  Only good explosion instead of elite.  Didn't run the agility tests. (torn ACL might have had something to do with that)

 

 

And posting TY Hiltons again since we're at the top of the page.

 

 

Not every player will have every box checked off. My assessments are only based on what I see or have seen. Pickens game is solid and aggressive and there is just something there. Same as with Watson, Wilson, and Williams. 

 

I just don't see that same spark in Pierce. Sorry I just don't/haven't. Call it a gut instinct. 

 

I really hope I'm wrong. Maybe it will all gel together and the entire team play will carry itself through. 

 

 

[shasta519]

21 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Dude, he is a JAG. I don't care of you refuse to see it. He will be a fine player I'm sure but he does not have the make-up to ever become truly elite. The Colts need Elite. Pierce will play hard, practice well, who cares. He does not have the ceiling to become elite. Pickens and Watson have those traits at least. Does it mean Watson and Pickens will become Elite? No, however they were the top two out of those three and we got the latter. That is a failure. 

You are getting ganged up on a bit, but you have some fair points.

 

For college WRs, breakout year and breakout age is a big factor. One season (his age 21 season) with 800+ yards does not scream WR1 upside. 
 

And only a handful of big games, mostly against teams like Tulsa, Marshall, East Carolina and Temple (outside of the ND game).

Pro - Good size and can block. Makes contested catches very well. 

 

Cons - Not a lot of separation or YAC. His specialty seems to be the back shoulder catch and fall down. Not sure if the YAC was more on Ridder or Pierce.

 

I can definitely see a productive WR2 though. Which is what they are looking. And it’s pretty clear how much size matters to Ballard. 

[Dingus McGirt]

39 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Sounds right. "C+" for Catastrophic + Terrible, Underwhelming, Disappointing, and Mediocre 

What is wrong with you?  Seriously.

[Nate!]

52 minutes ago, Indeee said:

That 2023 1st that would've most likely been a backend pick from 20-32 range, so would giving up that for a player that most believe Watson will become worth it? H*** YES!!! What you are stating makes zero sense. This Colts team is not going to be a bottom feeder where a top 10 pick next year would be lost. Come on

 
Pretty sure next year’s draft is a better class.  Things like that can change obviously, but I wouldn’t be looking to give up next year’s first.

[CardiacColts]

6 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I took that into consideration and that might be a factor as well, but you have to remember that Ryan's arm strength isn't what it used to be either. I'm not just doing this to validate my point on Pierce, I'm just saying that if his separation issues are a product of sporadic QB play too then how are we really ever going to tell if Ryan's QB play on deep balls is sporadic as well?

I understand your concerns, and they are not without merit; however, we really won’t know until we see him on the field. Personally, after watching Wentz throw the ball everywhere except to our receivers last year, I have little concern that Matt will at least be able to find the open man and deliver it. It remains to be seen how much zip he has on his deep balls. 
 

That being said, Alec has the size, speed, athleticism, and IQ to develop very nicely as a pro. I’m not knocking him before we ever see him lace it up. Based on his available body of work, he seems to legitimately be a gamer, and that is an undervalued trait. Oftentimes, it is that “it” factor that distinguishes the good from the great. And with Pierce, game after game he showed up and delivered when his team needs it. 
 

I think it’s absolutely possible that he develops greater separation once he cleans up his routes and stops rounding them off. And Reggie, if anyone, will be invaluable in that department. 
 

Point being, I think Alec absolutely has the potential to flourish in our offense. I think it’s silly and premature to call his selection a disaster as you previously stated. Will he become great for us? Time will tell. But to me, the fit and the opportunity is there for him. He has excellent hands, and that could lead to some very favorable outcomes for us. I, for one, am very optimistic about this season! 

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Not every player will have every box checked off. My assessments are only based on what I see or have seen. Pickens game is solid and aggressive and there is just something there. Same as with Watson, Wilson, and Williams. 

 

I just don't see that same spark in Pierce. Sorry I just don't/haven't. Call it a gut instinct. 

 

I really hope I'm wrong. Maybe it will all gel together and the entire team play will carry itself through. 

 

 

Pickens is more of an upside play, due to the injuries. So there isn’t a ton of production to go off of with him either.

 

But on tape, you do see him doing things that you don’t really see with Pierce. 

[krunk]

Im still not quite sure if they want him to be the #1 receiver per say.  To me it seems like he's taking on that Zach Pascal inside outside position versatile type role.  He's an upgrade on Pascal because he can play the deep game along with a number of other positions.  And on top of that he can block. Pascal could do all of those things except for playing the deep game.   I still need to see how they roll things out.  Those of you who didnt like the pick probably have this expectation that he's supposed to be the #1 WR and Im not quite sure if the Colts scheme things up that way.  I could be wrong. 

[Solid84]

I'm really pleased with how the draft turned out - had all of our players in draft simulations at different times.

 

They're are classic Ballard guys - super athletic and with a lot of upside. I don't expect too much from them this season though. My guess is Pierce will have a year very similar to Pittman's first year with 40-ish receptions, 500-ish yards and 1-3 TDs.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Cons - Not a lot of separation or YAC. His specialty seems to be the back shoulder catch and fall down. Not sure if the YAC was more on Ridder or Pierce.

 

The play beginning at 2:40 looks pretty nimble footed when given a route with open space and a QB putting the ball where it needs to go...but that's just one play. 

 

Agree, a lot of his highlights were the same pattern with the same throw.....and most of those were with a short field where he had little real estate to get separation.   The plays that started at Cincy's side of the field he got way behind the defenses, IMO, but poor throws by Ridder kept him from staying on his feet.

 

 

[Indeee]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Pickens is more of an upside play, due to the injuries. So there isn’t a ton of production to go off of with him either.

 

But on tape, you do see him doing things that you don’t really see with Pierce. 

That's what I have been trying to relay, and thanks for seeing that. That of the three left at top of day two, being Pickens, Watson, and Pierce, I saw more upside in Watson and Pickens, and I would've been more aggressive in trying to acquire them and the Colts weren't and settled for Pierce, and that has been the issue with many of us on this forum when speaking of Ballard's approach. He isn't aggressive enough in times where it is warranted and, in some cases, especially at wideout, it has been at the detriment to the Colts team. 

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im still not quite sure if they want him to be the #1 receiver per say.  To me it seems like he's taking on that Zach Pascal inside outside position versatile type role.  He's an upgrade on Pascal because he can play the deep game along with a number of other positions.  And on top of that he can block. Pascal could do all of those things except for playing the deep game.   I still need to see how they roll things out.  Those of you who didnt like the pick probably have this expectation that he's supposed to be the #1 WR and Im not quite sure if the Colts scheme things up that way.  I could be wrong. 

I think you are 100% correct and that's why I am kind of mad here. 

 

If you were to ask/poll all the forum people on here whether they thought the Colts needed to upgrade the WR position based on 1) actually needing talented receivers who could bring in a higher level of production or 2) a guy to take the place of pascal who is pretty darn good at blocking and can catch some too, I bet the majority would want option 1 and that is my issue.

 

Again, unless this team miraculously trades for Deebo or goes and signs OBJ, the Colts have yet again glossed over the WR position as a position of no value at all except in areas that normally the top receivers in the league are not really touted for. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Indeee said:

That's what I have been trying to relay, and thanks for seeing that. That of the three left at top of day two, being Pickens, Watson, and Pierce, I saw more upside in Watson and Pickens, and I would've been more aggressive in trying to acquire them and the Colts weren't and settled for Pierce, and that has been the issue with many of us on this forum when speaking of Ballard's approach. He isn't aggressive enough in times where it is warranted and, in some cases, especially at wideout, it has been at the detriment to the Colts team. 

Only way we could've traded up that far (as in the 33rd pick) is to give up our 1st round pick next season. No way anyone in their right mind would do that for a 2nd round pick. Watson went 34th. I think we will be picking around 23-25 next season because I think we win 11 games and win the division but that is still much better than not having a 1st round pick at all. If Pierce turn out to be good, are you going to admit you were wrong? I remember when I said Joey Bosa would be a bust and even @Supermandid as well, I had to eat to crow on that one. If you are wrong have the balls to admit it, I did with Joey Bosa. 

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Only way we could've traded up that far (as in the 33rd pick) is to give up our 1st round pick next season. No way anyone in their right mind would do that for a 2nd round pick. Watson went 34th. I think we will be picking around 23-25 next season because I think we win 11 games and win the division but that is still much better than not having a 1st round pick at all. If Pierce turn out to be good, are you going to admit you were wrong? I remember when I said Joey Bosa would be a bust and even @Supermandid as well, I had to eat to crow on that one. If you are wrong have the balls to admit it, I did with Joey Bosa. 

Absolutely I will admit I'm wrong as I'm a Colts fan. It's why I'm so passionate about this. I'm not just on here to be the other side of the coin even though that's normally where I end up. I only ask that if Pierce ends up being a JAG that all on here can admit the same thing instead of delaying my gratification as is the norm with this team and most of it's fans... 

[shasta519]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The play beginning at 2:40 looks pretty nimble footed when given a route with open space and a QB putting the ball where it needs to go...but that's just one play. 

 

Agree, a lot of his highlights were the same pattern with the same throw.....and most of those were with a short field where he had little real estate to get separation.   The plays that started at Cincy's side of the field he got way behind the defenses, IMO, but poor throws by Ridder kept him from staying on his feet.

 

 

Yeah…not saying he doesn’t have YAC ability, just that there wasn’t much of it from that video.

 

Seems very much like a guy some absolutely love and others not as much.

 

I know he tested really well, but that won’t matter once TC starts and he is playing against better DBs. 

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I think you are 100% correct and that's why I am kind of mad here. 

 

If you were to ask/poll all the forum people on here whether they thought the Colts needed to upgrade the WR position based on 1) actually needing talented receivers who could bring in a higher level of production or 2) a guy to take the place of pascal who is pretty darn good at blocking and can catch some too, I bet the majority would want option 1 and that is my issue.

 

Again, unless this team miraculously trades for Deebo or goes and signs OBJ, the Colts have yet again glossed over the WR position as a position of no value at all except in areas that normally the top receivers in the league are not really touted for. 

That is only if you think the scheme is supposed to work the way you are thinking.   I don't think the Colts approach schematically demands that they have this #1 alpha male receiver.  It's a spread/ multiple receivers type of scheme primarily sort of similar to New England where you are spreading things out and looking for match ups to exploit.  We have multiple guys who play multiple roles for us.  They never had any alpha male receiver in Philly when they won the Super Bowl.  But what I can say is we now have multiple 4.4 or better receivers that we can use to be better at our deep game when we need to.    I think you imagine things one way but the Colts approach is another way is basically what Im saying here. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Absolutely I will admit I'm wrong as I'm a Colts fan. It's why I'm so passionate about this. I'm not just on here to be the other side of the coin even though that's normally where I end up. I only ask that if Pierce ends up being a JAG that all on here can admit the same thing instead of delaying my gratification as is the norm with this team and most of it's fans... 

I think Pierce's role is to compliment Pittman. Neither may be true #1's but both can be strong #2's and nothing wrong with that. Especially knowing we have Hines who can be explosive and catch passes too. We can be an offense that gets the ball too many guys in reality. Pierce IMO makes the WR room stronger until proven otherwise. If he sucks, of course I will say I was wrong.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Off topic but last night on CBS Radio, the host was just bashing Mel Kiper and Todd McShay for hyping up Willis. Kiper had him going 19th and McShay 20th. He went 86th  . Those 2 even get it wrong and they are supposed to be the best in the business.

[Four2itus]

9 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I only ask that if Pierce ends up being a JAG that all on here can admit the same thing instead of delaying my gratification as is the norm with this team and most of it's fans... 

Ahhhh, but in my world....it is you who misses the point. Can you identify the difference in these two scenarios?

 

Predict wrong, in being excited about draft pick for next two years.......player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

Predict correct in being depressed about pick for the next two years.....player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

 

Ready? Wait.....wait....wait for it.......

 

I get to be excited the next two years!, and the disappointed person doesn't. It is quite literally, all the difference in the world. Chose your fun, brother. 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

48 minutes ago, Never_Quit said:

 

 

We need a reliable WR opposite Pittman. This team has no WR2. We didnt have a first round pick.  Ballard himself said there are only 5-6 elite blue chip players in the entire draft. Trading back and getting Pierce was a great move. 

 

wElL i WaNt MoRe ElItE pLaYeRs!!

 

Well I want a crazy hot redhead who wants to get back at her dad with me for a weekend, but we've gotta play the hand we're dealt. 

Only one? 

[Indeee]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

That is only if you think the scheme is supposed to work the way you are thinking.   I don't think the Colts approach schematically demands that they have this #1 alpha male receiver.  It's a spread/ multiple receivers type of scheme primarily sort of similar to New England where you are spreading things out and looking for match ups to exploit.  We have multiple guys who play multiple roles for us.  They never had any alpha male receiver in Philly when they won the Super Bowl.  But what I can say is we now have multiple 4.4 or better receivers that we can use to be better at our deep game when we need to.    I think you imagine things one way but the Colts approach is another way is basically what Im saying here. 

Again, whether intentional or not you are spot on and this is the problem that has plagued the Colts since Ballard's arrival.

 

I'm sure you remember so bear with me. When Ballard arrived, he stated his vision was to have the Pats offense coupled with the Seattle defense. 

 

It's why he hired Mcdaniels and brought over Dobbs. He was okay with Flus based on Mcdaniels assessment as Flus ran a similar scheme to Seattle in its cover style. 

 

Flash forward, he accepted Reich as Philly's offensive style was similar to the Pats once McDaniel's bolted.

 

Flash forward. Ballard has never veered from that approach/scheme and now he actually has the Seattle defensive coordinator to go along with the similar pats' offense in Reich.

 

There is the issue. Here is the problem.

 

Without a guy like Brady or Luck mind you, this offense doesn't really work, meaning that QB is needed to make the JAGS look better than they really are offensively and instead of tweaking some with positions and schematics Ballard keeps trying to find the QB to make the JAGS look greater than they are. It hasn't worked. 

 

I might add that once Moss was added in NE, that offense went from being efficient to one game shy of a perfect season which is elite.

 

You, see? That's why I'm screaming for Randy Moss even though Ryan is not Brady or Luck

 

Hopefully all that makes sense

 

 

 

 

[LiveAndLetAddai]

9 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Ahhhh, but in my world....it is you who misses the point. Can you identify the difference in these two scenarios?

 

Predict wrong, in being excited about draft pick for next two years.......player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

Predict correct in being depressed about pick for the next two years.....player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

 

Ready? Wait.....wait....wait for it.......

 

I get to be excited the next two years!, and the disappointed person doesn't. It is quite literally, all the difference in the world. Chose your fun, brother. 

Exactly!  And I have a funny feeling he will do just fine opposite of Pittman Jr....might take a year to develop, as most Wide Receivers need at least a year or two "to get it".

[Superman]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Pro Football Focus gave Moore a 91.8 receiving grade last season, the second-highest mark in the FBS among receivers. Some models compared him to Texans wideout Brandin Cooks, in large part due to his consistency as a route runner. Moore had 262 yards after contact in 2021 (tied for ninth in the FBS, per PFF) and forced 26 missed tackles on receptions (tied for the most in the FBS).

 

Moore went to the right team where Andy Reid schemes YAC like crazy for numbers. Pierce went to the right team where he is bound to see plenty of 1-on-1s on the outside and is moved around for us to play possession football. Yes, that will be the baseline for us Colts fans at least over the next 3 years. However, in a pass happy offense of Reid, don't be surprised if Moore puts up very good numbers.

 

For sure, Moore landed in a good spot as well, and should be productive. They also cleared room for him to play right away.

 

More importantly for the Colts, will Pierce validate his draft status with his play on the field? That's what I'm most concerned with. Sadly, Campbell has not been able to produce, which is the main reason for regret.

[JediXMan]

I bet Pittman and JT are really happy about this pick. It was obvious teams adjusted late in season to focus on these two. Says a lot about the other WRs on the roster. I’m not expecting a huge year from him but he is a good blocker like Pascal but is more explosive than him which is a plus. Who knows maybe our other weapons step up as well.

[Indeee]

9 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Ahhhh, but in my world....it is you who misses the point. Can you identify the difference in these two scenarios?

 

Predict wrong, in being excited about draft pick for next two years.......player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

Predict correct in being depressed about pick for the next two years.....player doesn't turn out how I wanted.

 

Ready? Wait.....wait....wait for it.......

 

I get to be excited the next two years!, and the disappointed person doesn't. It is quite literally, all the difference in the world. Chose your fun, brother. 

Brother, I'm just a fan who is tired of waiting for whatever gratification all these projects bring. 

 

All this team needs is one quality WR1 to go along with the very good defense and a very good offense, just one and Ballard refuses to do it.

 

Tyreek Hill should have been a Colt as an example. If the brass truly believes the SB can be had now you go, get that player NOW with everything you got and you mortgage it all in doing so. It's called taking a calculated risk in the moment

 

This guy is not a gambler, all while he is trying to convince you that his team has a REAL shot to win right now. His hesitancy in certain areas is what is alarming, at least to me.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

Sorry, I honestly believe the Lions got the best in Williams who will be the best, Wilson second in the class with Watson tied with Pickens for third but only if Pickens can keep his head straight. Wilson will be pretty good, but I think Williams will be better

But again... none of those guys were available at 42...

[csmopar]

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

For sure, Moore landed in a good spot as well, and should be productive. They also cleared room for him to play right away.

 

More importantly for the Colts, will Pierce validate his draft status with his play on the field? That's what I'm most concerned with. Sadly, Campbell has not been able to produce, which is the main reason for regret.

Exactly. I would add that IF Campbell had managed to stay healthy, I imagine we’re not having this debate about WRs. And hindsight is always 20/20. The draft is a crap shoot, you gotta go and trust you’ve done your homework right, even Ballard has said he’s missed when he’s swung and hasn’t swung when he should have. No GM is perfect. 

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

Why just other than size?  Contrary to the old wives’ tale, size matters.

 

That said, I’m not gonna lie:  I like Skyy better.

Yeah maybe his size was THE determining factor. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

TY Hilton's RAS.  Lack of agility.  Like Skyy Moore and Julio Jones.

 

TYs been good but he’s never really been “elite” i love Ty and would like for him to be back. But his entire game was mostly speed. He lost that a few years back and he’s not been the same. 
 

 

that said, I sincerely hope Ballard isn’t basing things solely on RAS

[shasta519]

41 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Brother, I'm just a fan who is tired of waiting for whatever gratification all these projects bring. 

 

All this team needs is one quality WR1 to go along with the very good defense and a very good offense, just one and Ballard refuses to do it.

 

Tyreek Hill should have been a Colt as an example. If the brass truly believes the SB can be had now you go, get that player NOW with everything you got and you mortgage it all in doing so. It's called taking a calculated risk in the moment

 

This guy is not a gambler, all while he is trying to convince you that his team has a REAL shot to win right now. His hesitancy in certain areas is what is alarming, at least to me.

He’s had a tendency to gamble…in some areas. Not so much in others. WR really isn’t one of those areas for him. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

Pickens is more of an upside play, due to the injuries. So there isn’t a ton of production to go off of with him either.

 

But on tape, you do see him doing things that you don’t really see with Pierce. 

The thing with Pickens is... he’s said to not be ready to play until October medically and has several SERIOUS off the field concerns. Why on earth anyone in desperate need of a starting WR would target him over a guy who’s drop off in talent isn’t that much at all and who is healthy is beyond me.

[C_Lew]

Kind of looks like Keenan Allen in his highlights, to me.

[shasta519]

I think the lack of route running prowess could potentially mean it takes more time for Pierce to ramp up.

 

Just hard to know what he can do in the NFL until that part is on display.

[CR91]

Anyone else think Alec looks like Austin Collie?

[Indeee]

27 minutes ago, csmopar said:

But again... none of those guys were available at 42...

Thats why I said I would've taken Dean at 42. The LB as BPA since none of those wideouts were there 

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, C_Lew said:

Kind of looks like Keenan Allen in his highlights, to me.

Well, except that Allen had phenomenal route running though.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

16 hours ago, Stephen said:

Had Moore ranked above him but I suppose  we will have to live with it

hope ballard didnt miss on another wr