Colts Select WR Alec Pierce

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I think his ability to block, especially after losing Pascal, gave him the edge over Moore.  
 

Just my opinion.  

 

I'm still processing, but not sure what to expect/think. 

Pascal was playing slot mostly.

Our biggest need IMO was speed on the outside. 

Most project AP as an X type, and we already have Pitt at X.

I'm not opposed to moving Pitt to slot (he can play either X or slot), but we're still lacking the Z type of WR. 

I guess it's either TY, PC, or Coutee, or we're just going bigger and shorter (even more possession ball).

 

[masterlock]

34 minutes ago, Bravo said:

If we’re being honest, Pierce is literally a white Michael Pittman Jr.

He seems more athletic. But I know he hasn't played in the NFL yet. But he looks more physical.

[Four2itus]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

KC snatched Moore up right after we took AP. 

Or they dropped a few F bombs when the Colts took Alec right before them. 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, masterlock said:

He seems more athletic. But I know he hasn't played in the NFL yet. But he looks more physical.

He has big ups.  Both he and the TE we drafted seem like good red zone candidates.

 

we’ve certainly drafted the most needed positions on the team IMo.  Hope they work out.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Four2itus said:

Or they dropped a few F bombs when the Colts took Alec right before them. 

Doubt it. Most big boards has AP projected later. PFF had him as a 3rd rounder, and Moore as a first. 

Not saying big boards are everything, but most draft evaluations were pretty clear. 

[masters1]

I love this pick. The kid is a heck of a player and has quite a background.

6'3' 1/8    211 lbs

Ran a 4.41 official 40 at the combine (4.33 unofficial). Vertical jump of 40.5" (best among wr at combine)

Dead lifted 675 lbs

Was one of Bruce Feldman's "freak" athletes.

Was in a 5 year engineering program and got his degree in 3 1/2 years.

From suburban Chicago, his parents played football/volleyball at Northwestern. Older brother played bball at North Carolina and younger brother will play bball at Princeton. 

[Bravo]

45 minutes ago, tvturner said:

I don't agree with that comparison at all

He played that exact role for Cincy last year.

 

Pierce is faster than MPJ but is a good route runner and plays bigger than the defenders. Pierce played a lot of the outside of the numbers and deep middle of the field. Not a lot of slants or crossing routes.

[DaColts85]

I hope to eat my worlds. I hope Pierce becomes a stud very quickly. 

[Four2itus]

Just now, DaColts85 said:

I hope to eat my worlds.

Well, just leave Earth out of it....mkay?

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Well, just leave Earth out of it....mkay?

Yeah, I kinda like it here.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

Not the prettiest route runner, but he’s a muscle man and will out compete most corners. Pretty darn fast too.

His three cone was horrible. That is not good but they got him more for his vertical game. More of a Metcalf clone.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, tvturner said:

He's got great tape against Georgia and Alabama.

Simms had him as thr 3rd best reiever behind Watson and Williams.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

If we’re being honest, Pierce is literally a white Michael Pittman Jr.

Go to the 18:40 mark to hear bout Pearce 

[Superman]

54 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I thought they were saying that the sportscasters were comparing him to other white dudes.

 

Maybe I misunderstood you.  
 

i personally think one of the 1st thoughts in peoples minds would be like hmm, white dude outside.  And I just don’t see a problem with that.

 

I just hope the dude can get open and catch the Rock.  He could be a Martian for all care.

 

Chase Claypool is the best comparison, IMO. 

 

There is definitely a "thing" with comparing white receivers -- inside or out -- to other white receivers. There's also some coded language, and once a person notices it, it's pretty hard to miss moving forward. "Hard working," "deceptive speed," "quicker than fast," etc. I think a lot of it is ignorance. I don't know that it hurts white receivers, but it's definitely a thing, and I now roll my eyes at it.

 

(There's a similar "thing" with black QBs. "Freak athlete," "not great in the pocket," "a runner learning to be a QB," etc. While white QBs are more "natural passers," "game managers," etc. I don't think it's intentional, but maybe it influences the general perception of a black QB in negative ways. But this is not necessarily intentional. Stephen A Smith called Dwayne Haskins (RIP  ) a "running QB," when he had barely over 100 yards rushing his last year in college, and was NOT a running QB at all. I think he racially profiled Haskins, unintentionally, and it was an obvious example of what sometimes happens when describing and comparing prospect players. It's weird.)

 

And while it doesn't matter, I'll tell you this. I watched a lot of Desmond Ridder, and Alec Pierce stood out to me on the tape, so I watched some of Pierce. But I couldn't tell for sure at first, and had to stop the video and figure out his ethnicity. Not that it mattered, but I wanted to know. And I think part of that is him being a tall, outside, downfield receiver, who happens to be white. Kind of an outlier.

 

Same thing with Matt Corral, just wanted to know for sure. (Here's a pick of him and his family: https://www.instagram.com/p/CXSXU20DkC2/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link ) 

 

[Superman]

Back on Pierce, one thing I'm kind of concerned about is the trend of "contested catch guy" in college not translating to the NFL. Guys who make a lot of contested catches in college sometimes do so because they can't get separation from DBs. Might be tools, might be technique. I think Pierce gets good separation, but his technique is not refined, especially early in the route, especially against press coverage. So he has some definite work to do. 

 

He's a size/speed prospect who needs refinement and coaching, but I think he's in a good spot, with a veteran QB who has had success with WRs like him. And Reggie was one of the most refined WRs of the last couple decades, which is a big reason he's now the WR coach. 

[MacDee1975]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

Not sure we see T.Y.......Piitman-1, Pierce-2, Dulin-3, Strachan-4,Campbell-5,Patmon-6,Harris-7,Coutee-8....we already have too many on the back end. Think Hilton is Dallas bound

 

Good Christ.....if Dulin is our #3 WR we may as well not even play the 2022 season, go straight to the 2023 draft, take a WR with our first rounder and set our sights on the 2023 season.

[Patagonia Chris]

2 hours ago, tvturner said:

I think I'll pass on talking football with someone who thinks Alec Pierce is "minimally talented"

 

Do us all a favor and take the rest of the night off

Yeah, you think a kid who had 50 catches and 800 Yds in the American against the likes of Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, Murray St, Miami OH and Austin Peay is going to be a game breaker in the NFL? If so, probably shouldn’t be telling others what to do, especially on a football forum.

[Esquire59]

Reminds me of Steve Largent

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Unpolished IMO. 

Not sure I understand him over Moore. Not saying Moore was elite, but Pierce has questionable agility and route running. 

I love his size and speed though. 

KC snatched Moore up right after we took AP. 

We shall see. 

Actually,Simms loved his route running and explosion.  Only time will tell. He is our DK Metcalf in terms of physical tools. His three cone was horrible much like DK's and that is what scared a lot of teams away from DK. Kind of a one tick pony, which is fine with me. He will fit in well with this offense. Play action over the top. Plus, he should take the safety out of the box.

[tvturner]

13 minutes ago, Patagonia Chris said:

Yeah, you think a kid who had 50 catches and 800 Yds in the American against the likes of Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, Murray St, Miami OH and Austin Peay is going to be a game breaker in the NFL? If so, probably shouldn’t be telling others what to do, especially on a football forum.

I love a box score watcher.

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Chase Claypool is the best comparison, IMO. 

 

There is definitely a "thing" with comparing white receivers -- inside or out -- to other white receivers. There's also some coded language, and once a person notices it, it's pretty hard to miss moving forward. "Hard working," "deceptive speed," "quicker than fast," etc. I think a lot of it is ignorance. I don't know that it hurts white receivers, but it's definitely a thing, and I now roll my eyes at it.

 

(There's a similar "thing" with black QBs. "Freak athlete," "not great in the pocket," "a runner learning to be a QB," etc. While white QBs are more "natural passers," "game managers," etc. I don't think it's intentional, but maybe it influences the general perception of a black QB in negative ways. But this is not necessarily intentional. Stephen A Smith called Dwayne Haskins (RIP  ) a "running QB," when he had barely over 100 yards rushing his last year in college, and was NOT a running QB at all. I think he racially profiled Haskins, unintentionally, and it was an obvious example of what sometimes happens when describing and comparing prospect players. It's weird.)

 

And while it doesn't matter, I'll tell you this. I watched a lot of Desmond Ridder, and Alec Pierce stood out to me on the tape, so I watched some of Pierce. But I couldn't tell for sure at first, and had to stop the video and figure out his ethnicity. Not that it mattered, but I wanted to know. And I think part of that is him being a tall, outside, downfield receiver, who happens to be white. Kind of an outlier.

 

Same thing with Matt Corral, just wanted to know for sure. (Here's a pick of him and his family: https://www.instagram.com/p/CXSXU20DkC2/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link ) 

 

How many white dudes are world class 100 m sprinters?  Almost none.  Does that matter?  I don’t think so.  I can only think of one starting white CB in my lifetime.  Why is that?  White Running backs are rare. Is this just cultural?  Probably not IMO.

 

There have been athletic white QBs.  Steve Young, Alex Smith, Josh Allen, trubisky and Luck, etc and there have been black “unathletic” QBs like Doug Williams, leftwich, our own Jacoby.

 

but it seems to me to be a weird, unnecessary racially charged actually mental gymnastic event to deny the seemingly obvious tendency that black QBs tend to be more “athletic” than white ones overall.  Same thing with white RBs and CBS.  They rarely exist.  There was Jason Sehorn and mcCafrey, but to me it’s pretty obvious that they aren’t many white dudes in these positions or in Olympic sprints.  So what?  Imo.

  To me it’s biased not to reocognize these obvious tendencies.  It’s like a weird form of reverse denial not to.  

 

There is also nothing wrong with liking guys that “look like you.” I am pretty certain that young black hockey kids admire PK Subban or evader Kane at a higher rate than other players and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but by the same token my son loves Kupp and I really liked Collinsworth back in the day.  It’s ok.  My favorite player of all time is Walter Payton, but I find it “interesting” that Cmac is as good as he is cause he plays a position that has been dominated by black players.

 

 

I just hope this white dude we just drafted can play.  That’s all that matters to me as a Colts fan.

 

what’s not Ok to me is to not employ someone or to deny rights to someone because of race.  Dude is the best candidate for the job should get the job.  Period.

 

I remEMBER former Cowboy LB Dat Nguyen saying he wanted to be an inspiration to Vietnamese kids.  Is this wrong?  Obviously not.  If a white kid looks up to Kupp or sehorn it’s not wrong either.  Same with black kids admiring Obama regardless of politics.  Hmm.  Black dude (half white) president.  I personally know many black kids who thought that was cool.

 

NOT A PROBLEM IMO.

[Moosejawcolt]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

Back on Pierce, one thing I'm kind of concerned about is the trend of "contested catch guy" in college not translating to the NFL. Guys who make a lot of contested catches in college sometimes do so because they can't get separation from DBs. Might be tools, might be technique. I think Pierce gets good separation, but his technique is not refined, especially early in the route, especially against press coverage. So he has some definite work to do. 

 

He's a size/speed prospect who needs refinement and coaching, but I think he's in a good spot, with a veteran QB who has had success with WRs like him. And Reggie was one of the most refined WRs of the last couple decades, which is a big reason he's now the WR coach. 

From what I have read. The more they scouted Cincinnati, they came away less impressed by Ritter because he would simply not throw his way or under threw him . I think what looked like lack of separation was more on Ritter not hitting him in stride. 

[chad72]

Ed McCaffrey that will make tough catches when we need him the most on a run oriented Elway led Broncos then is what came to my mind when I thought of Pierce. He will be a TE like Tony Gonzalez was for Matt Ryan should he use him down the middle and Woods plays the athletic TE role while Pierce will block, box out and win, inside or outside. Yes, a bit like Metcalf on the outside but a bit like Boldin / McCaffrey when used inside. Remember, Boldin was a similar body type that played inside and outside. 

 

I am not ruling out a speedster in the next few rounds.

[Moosejawcolt]

10 minutes ago, Esquire59 said:

Reminds me of Steve Largent

Joking like Steve Largent. More like DK.

[zibby43]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Unpolished IMO. 

Not sure I understand him over Moore. Not saying Moore was elite, but Pierce has questionable agility and route running. 

I love his size and speed though. 

KC snatched Moore up right after we took AP. 

We shall see. 

I wouldn’t call him unpolished at all.

 

I mean, I guess it depends on what skill set you’re referring to, but his hands and body control in traffic, ability to high-point the ball, and the ability to show a wide variety of releases to get off the line of scrimmage and into his route are advanced and the reason why he’ll contribute immediately.

 

I’m not considered about his agility given his overall athleticism.

 

Just my take, but I watched him a fair bit last year.

[Nickster]

One of these days I’d love for the Colts to acquire a guy termed “an extremely precise, very advanced route runner who can run the entire route tree.”

[Shive]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

One of these days I’d love for the Colts to acquire a guy termed “an extremely precise, very advanced route runner who can run the entire route tree.”

That's my dream. Those are my favorites and we never draft them.

[Patagonia Chris]

10 minutes ago, tvturner said:

I love a box score watcher.

Guarantee I watch more college football and Cincy Bearcats than you. If you did, would have had more than a five word response. Don’t worry though, I’ll be here in two years when it’s apparent the kid isn’t an NFL WR. Just like with Banogu, Campbell, Quincy Wilson and Turay. 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Shive said:

That's my dream. Those are my favorites and we never draft them.

Remember Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.  Boy that was  a while ago now.

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

From what I have read. The more they scouted Cincinnati, they came away less impressed by Ritter because he would simply not throw his way or under threw him . I think what looked like lack of separation was more on Ritter not hitting him in stride. 

Bingo.  The reason you see contested catches is because of ball placement, which is one of Ridder's criticisms.  Anyway, he is a Z and not an X at this point.  He's not going to be asked for many shake/possession routes at this point since that's what Pitt is for...as well as some PC and Hines and Granson and  Woods and MAC and Strauch and Patmon.  He's here to stretch the field and win the down field battles when he needs to.  We'll see if he develops a more rounded game.

 

Better than Moore for this simply because of size and strength, IMO.

[chrisfarley]

3 hours ago, LiveAndLetAddai said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/alec-pierce/32005049-4518-5673-88cc-339d3b35d4c9

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/alec-pierce

 

 

I'm not hearing things when Irsay said we are exicting to get you "in round 3" when on the phone with Alec Pierce, right?

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

How many white dudes are world class 100 m sprinters?  Almost none.  Does that matter?  I don’t think so.  I can only think of one starting white CB in my lifetime.  Why is that?  White Running backs are rare. Is this just cultural?  Probably not IMO.

 

There have been athletic white QBs.  Steve Young, Alex Smith, Josh Allen, trubisky and Luck, etc and there have been black “unathletic” QBs like Doug Williams, leftwich, our own Jacoby.

 

but it seems to me to be a weird, unnecessary racially charged actually mental gymnastic event to deny the seemingly obvious tendency that black QBs tend to be more “athletic” than white ones overall.  Same thing with white RBs and CBS.  They rarely exist.  There was Jason Sehorn and mcCafrey, but to me it’s pretty obvious that they aren’t many white dudes in these positions or in Olympic sprints.  So what?  Imo.

  To me it’s biased not to reocognize these obvious tendencies.  It’s like a weird form of reverse denial not to.  

 

There is also nothing wrong with liking guys that “look like you.” I am pretty certain that young black hockey kids admire PK Subban or evader Kane at a higher rate than other players and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but by the same token my son loves Kupp and I really liked Collinsworth back in the day.  It’s ok.  My favorite player of all time is Walter Payton, but I find it “interesting” that Cmac is as good as he is cause he plays a position that has been dominated by black players.

 

 

I just hope this white dude we just drafted can play.  That’s all that matters to me as a Colts fan.

 

what’s not Ok to me is to not employ someone or to deny rights to someone because of race.  Dude is the best candidate for the job should get the job.  Period.

 

I remEMBER former Cowboy LB Dat Nguyen saying he wanted to be an inspiration to Vietnamese kids.  Is this wrong?  Obviously not.  If a white kid looks up to Kupp or sehorn it’s not wrong either.  Same with black kids admiring Obama regardless of politics.  Hmm.  Black dude (half white) president.  I personally know many black kids who thought that was cool.

 

NOT A PROBLEM IMO.

 

Identifying a player's ethnicity, especially as an outlier, doesn't have to be a problem. 
 

I think some players get profiled due to their race, and that's potentially harmful. I gave the Haskins example earlier. It's fine that black QBs tend to be good runners, but calling a black QB who isn't a good runner a "running QB" is, at the very least, an example of ignorance. But at times, it could be symptomatic of deeper issues that impact opportunities. This could be true at other positions as well. 

 

As it relates to Pierce -- and seems to be a pattern with white WRs -- the player comparisons always seem to be other white WRs. And that's probably just because a) people make comparisons off of what they see, and b) sometimes people don't have a deep, extensive knowledge of players around the league. This results in shallow comparisons that are influenced by race. Which is why you don't have to look hard to find Pierce compared with Cooper Kupp or Eric Decker, even though Pierce has a different athletic profile than both, and Kupp mostly played slot in college, and plays a lot of slot in the NFL, while Pierce mostly played outside. Eric Decker is a better comp for Pittman than for Pierce.

 

My last thing on this, because it's really off topic and some other posts have already been removed... I don't think there's anything wrong with identifying or acknowledging obvious facts. But I think it's good to acknowledge that sometimes, those facts turn into stereotypes, which can have a negative effect when it comes to opportunities.

[Boondoggle]

Colts planning to body opposing DBs with their weapons this year.  Defenses with small DBs are going to hate playing Indy.

[krunk]

27 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Ed McCaffrey that will make tough catches when we need him the most on a run oriented Elway led Broncos then is what came to my mind when I thought of Pierce. He will be a TE like Tony Gonzalez was for Matt Ryan should he use him down the middle and Woods plays the athletic TE role while Pierce will block, box out and win, inside or outside. Yes, a bit like Metcalf on the outside but a bit like Boldin / McCaffrey when used inside. Remember, Boldin was a similar body type that played inside and outside. 

 

I am not ruling out a speedster in the next few rounds.

Mccafrey is exactly who i was going to compare him to. Gloves and all! 

[tvturner]

20 minutes ago, Patagonia Chris said:

Guarantee I watch more college football and Cincy Bearcats than you. If you did, would have had more than a five word response. Don’t worry though, I’ll be here in two years when it’s apparent the kid isn’t an NFL WR. Just like with Banogu, Campbell, Quincy Wilson and Turay. 

If you have to boast your knowledge of football and how much you watch it to peope, you're not worth interacting with. Act as high and mighty as you want.

[Patagonia Chris]

3 minutes ago, tvturner said:

If you have to boast your knowledge of football and how much you watch it to peope, you're not worth interacting with. Act as high and mighty as you want.

Okay, what do you think the production you’re getting from Pierce next year is? Anything more than 35-40 Rec’s you’re joking yourself.

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

One of these days I’d love for the Colts to acquire a guy termed “an extremely precise, very advanced route runner who can run the entire route tree.”

 

13 minutes ago, Shive said:

That's my dream. Those are my favorites and we never draft them.

 

And I think you might as well forget about it. I love technical receivers, but the guys who have the prototypical size and speed along with the technique go early in the first, and Ballard isn't going to spend early first round picks on WR. 

 

Maybe you can grab Terry McLaurin, but that's probably a stroke of luck more than anything else. 

 

I think Skyy Moore is that technique guy, who has really good speed on the clock, but it wasn't all that obvious on tape (I think the world was shocked he ran such a good 40). And then his size is questionable, limiting him to a specific role in an NFL offense. And the Colts value blocking in WRs, especially if a guy is going to play a lot of slot. The Colts chose Pierce with Moore still on the board, says a lot about what they value.

 

In 2019, we took Banogu with AJ Brown still on the board, then drafted Campbell later in that round. I really liked AJ Brown as a technique guy that year. I liked Campbell also, for his speed and ability after the catch, and he wasn't a slouch as a route runner. Brown was the more refined route runner for sure. (And then DK was still there when Campbell was drafted, and that looks bad in hindsight, even though DK was absolutely not my kind of guy. End of the second round, I could have gotten on board, but he dropped that far because he played with basically no technique. Seattle figured out how to use him. We probably would have wasted him with JB and Rivers. Maybe Wentz would have gotten him going.)

 

I hope Pierce over Moore isn't something we regret 3 years from now.

[Moosejawcolt]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Bingo.  The reason you see contested catches is because of ball placement, which is one of Ridder's criticisms.  Anyway, he is a Z and not an X at this point.  He's not going to be asked for many shake/possession routes at this point since that's what Pitt is for...as well as some PC and Hines and Granson and  Woods and MAC and Strauch and Patmon.  He's here to stretch the field and win the down field battles when he needs to.  We'll see if he develops a more rounded game.

 

Better than Moore for this simply because of size and strength, IMO.

Yeah, we have some giants . Cox, Pittman, Pearce, Woods and even Campbell if he can stay healthy. U can see Ballard likes big bodies. Time to move on from Ty.

[Superman]

36 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

From what I have read. The more they scouted Cincinnati, they came away less impressed by Ritter because he would simply not throw his way or under threw him . I think what looked like lack of separation was more on Ritter not hitting him in stride. 

 

The Notre Dame game is a good example. I really like Ridder, but inconsistent accuracy (especially early in the game), and how his deep ball dies sometimes, are my biggest questions with him. All of this happened against ND, definitely cost Pierce a TD on a big downfield completion, and maybe another big opportunity missed on another throw. 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

And I think you might as well forget about it. I love technical receivers, but the guys who have the prototypical size and speed along with the technique go early in the first, and Ballard isn't going to spend early first round picks on WR. 

 

Maybe you can grab Terry McLaurin, but that's probably a stroke of luck more than anything else. 

 

I think Skyy Moore is that technique guy, who has really good speed on the clock, but it wasn't all that obvious on tape (I think the world was shocked he ran such a good 40). And then his size is questionable, limiting him to a specific role in an NFL offense. And the Colts value blocking in WRs, especially if a guy is going to play a lot of slot. The Colts chose Pierce with Moore still on the board, says a lot about what they value.

 

In 2019, we took Banogu with AJ Brown still on the board, then drafted Campbell later in that round. I really liked AJ Brown as a technique guy that year. I liked Campbell also, for his speed and ability after the catch, and he wasn't a slouch as a route runner. Brown was the more refined route runner for sure. (And then DK was still there when Campbell was drafted, and that looks bad in hindsight, even though DK was absolutely not my kind of guy. End of the second round, I could have gotten on board, but he dropped that far because he played with basically no technique. Seattle figured out how to use him. We probably would have wasted him with JB and Rivers. Maybe Wentz would have gotten him going.)

 

I hope Pierce over Moore isn't something we regret 3 years from now.

I think they drafted Pearce to fit a specific role. Run young man.....just run lol.