Colts Select WR Alec Pierce

[shasta519]

40 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  You can win Super Bowls with no name receivers.
  Learn your job, and do it.
   Now we have a QB that is a coach on the field and will do a good job using all the pieces. CB and Reich believe one of Patmon or Strachan can have a breakout season. Let's expect a nice 2nd year jump from both based on our insiders knowledge. 
 While anything is possible, with all the new pieces, Super Bowl expectations make little sense.  But next year...

 

Maybe if you are NE...and it's 2005. Even their recent SB teams had notable pass catchers.

 

Here are some recent SBs and the notable pass catchers:

 

2022: Kupp (MVP), OBJ, Chase, Higgins

2021: Hill, Kelce, Evans, Godwin, Gronk, AB

2020: Hill, Kelce, Kittle, Deebo

2019: Gronk, Edelman, Woods, Cooks

2018: Gronk, Cooks, Jeffrey, Ertz

2017: Gronk, Edelman, Julio  

 

Offense has changed in recent years. If you don't have an elite TE, you better have a pair of very good WRs. 

 

But I do agree that SB expectations don't make much sense this year. They have already committed to Ryan for next season, so we will know a lot more this time next year.

[shasta519]

12 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

The Colts had an offer on the table to Landry weeks ago. At the time it was the largest offer given to Landry.  The Colts moved on and I’m fine with it. They made an offer to Alan Robinson but the Colts hadn’t secured a QB yet. 
 

I believe the Colts will give Ryan time to work with the current group against the Colts secondary and see if they feel they need to bring in another WR or not.  It also pretty obvious the Colts’ staff feels like Wentz missed plenty of open receivers.  They saw the film and know what they’ve got. Ryan will have more credibility than Wentz if he feels a WR needs to be brought in.   Let’s not forget Hines is going to see a lot of action in the slot. 

 

So if they made an effort to add a proven weapon, it seems like they (at least at some point) shared a similar outlook as those who still want them to add a proven option. Not sure why it's so controversial now.

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

The Colts had an offer on the table to Landry weeks ago. At the time it was the largest offer given to Landry.  The Colts moved on and I’m fine with it. They made an offer to Alan Robinson but the Colts hadn’t secured a QB yet. 
 

I believe the Colts will give Ryan time to work with the current group against the Colts secondary and see if they feel they need to bring in another WR or not.  It also pretty obvious the Colts’ staff feels like Wentz missed plenty of open receivers.  They saw the film and know what they’ve got. Ryan will have more credibility than Wentz if he feels a WR needs to be brought in.   Let’s not forget Hines is going to see a lot of action in the slot. 

I don’t pretend to read every post in every thread….    But I’ve seen no post, no tweet, no story about Colts offers either to Landry or Robinson.   Zero.    
 

I’ve seen stories that said we might have interest if the money was right,  or that we need a receiver and the player would be a good fit.   But nothing about actual offers.  
 

Can you point me in the right direction?  A story or tweet or something?    Thnx!   

[shasta519]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Are you serious? 

 

Campbell has been hurt since before he played a single game in his rookie year. His first offseason, he was often unavailable due to injury issues. And in 2019, when his QB was supposed to be Andrew Luck, he wound up with Jacoby Brissett, who is not a good QB to have when you're trying to develop a rookie WR that stretches the field. His entire season was derailed by injuries -- hamstring, sports hernia, broken hand, broken foot--  and he only played 7 games.

 

He played two games in 2020, he was pretty good in the first game, and got hurt on the opening drive of the second game. He missed the rest of the season.

 

In 2021, he came up hurt and missed Week 2, then was less than 100% for the next few games, and finally had the foot injury that kept him out for almost three months. (The play on which he got hurt, he looked pretty good.) He came back in the final game of the season and played 8 snaps.

 

His entire career has been marked by injury. And he had no significant injury history in college, it's not like they drafted a historically injury prone player. Using him as an example of this staff's ability to scout and develop WRs is a waste of time.

 

And he's one of two WRs that were drafted as early as the 2nd round. The other is Pittman, who has looked pretty good. The results of 5th, 6th and 7th round prospects aren't even worth bringing up. 

Sure, I am serious. I just disagree with your assessment about Campbell's level of play. Not a bad player, but also hasn't looked like the legit breakout talent (outside of maybe one game) that has been the narrative each offseason. We can chalk it up to dealing with multiple injuries I guess, but then it's just an incomplete. I just don't agree with this idea that Campbell is clearly this uber-talented WR being held back by injuries.

 

But I think we should evaluate their WR approach based on more than just drafted players taken by Day 2.

 

And to clarify, when I said they have gotten it wrong, I wasn't even talking only about the draft, NCF just took it there. I was referring to their overall approach and evaluation at WR (and draft approach and evaluation is just part of it).

 

Their initial approach did include developing Day 3 picks, similar to KC's approach when Ballard was there. And they are still doing it now with guys like Patmon and Strachan. Those don't seem like just throwaway Day 3 picks...they sure seem like they were/are expecting to get a lot out of those players. So we have to evaluate those picks on some level, right? 

 

Campbell was the 11th (Day 1-2) pick for Ballard. That means he prioritized 10 quality picks on other positions (some multiple times) before ever taking a WR. Even in that same 2019 draft, he passed on some very good WRs to address other positions first. 

 

He's definitely used more draft capital recently, with Pitt and now Pierce. But it's still only two guys.

 

But that's just the approach in the draft. Back when Ballard would sign FA WRs, he signed guys like Kamar Aiken, Ryan Grant and Devin Funchess. For the past 3 offseasons, he hasn't really seemed too keen on adding via FA or via trade at the position. Instead, he has, like he is doing now, relied upon the youth and development (along with an aging Hilton...who apparently didn't even want to bring back last year).

 

The culmination of this approach was last season, when the Colts finished as the only NFL team to have only one pass catcher with 400+ yards, narrowly edging out HOU for the honor. They also had no pass catcher >700 yards in 2019 or >800 yards in 2020, so the lack of proven production isn't really new. 

 

Thankfully, Pitt stepped up into a high-volume role. So at least there's that.

 

But they actually lost proven pass catchers this offseason. And the only move so far to offset that and improve the group is to draft a single WR and rely more on youth and development. No matter how I feel about Pierce, he is still only a rookie, so the expectations have to adjust. And I think you mentioned it, but AFC teams have been loading up, while the Colts seem to be falling a bit behind.

 

So I think, now with 5-6 years of data, it's a pretty fair to be skeptic in regards to their approach at WR.

 

 

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I just don't agree with this idea that Campbell is clearly this uber-talented WR being held back by injuries.

 

I guess that's a matter of perspective. I don't get the impression that anyone views him as an uber-talented player who is about to break out for us. I think the general consensus is that anything we get from him is a bonus. I do think he can be a solid weapon, if he could stay healthy, but it's not reasonable to count on that happening.

 

To the rest, disagreeing with their approach to handling the WR position is a different story. Whether it's value driven, or how they evaluate different traits, or even how they've evaluated other players at different positions, sure, plenty to talk about there. Personally, my beef with their approach is they don't place enough value on WR, IMO. 

 

I don't think 5th and 6th round guys are a significant part of the story, though. They're mostly traits-based prospects, very raw, and anything you get from them is a welcome surprise. They can play STs, they can compete for WR4, etc., but it's not like the staff expected Dezmon Patmon to solve our WR issues. 

 

Aiken and Grant were 3rd tier, one year guys. Funchess was expected to be more, but got hurt (seems to be a theme), and never played with Luck. 

[AKB]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

So yeah, I wonder if maybe we're either stuck between wanting to stay relevant in the present (maybe because Ballard and Reich have to protect their jobs?), and building toward the future, and it's complicating the team building strategy. Or perhaps worse, if we have a GM who simply will not ever break from his disciplined formula to make a big push, no matter what.

 

I think you are correct here. They can't do a rebuild because the expectations are high, because the roster is relatively talented. It's just that most of the talent is at non premium positions. That's why I was telling stiches it won't look like LAR or CIN, but our Offense will still be plenty effective. 

 

But yeah, I think you are right about them protecting their jobs. I've also heard Ballard say it's not about any individual, or any single year, that they are trying to build a contender for each year. 

 

The scary fact is we haven't won our division in quite a while. That's hard to overlook. 

[AKB]

8 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Mike Evans is pretty much a superstar though. First WR to ever start his career with 7-straight 1k+ seasons. After their first two seasons in the NFL, Evans was averaging 75 yds/game...Pitt is at 53 yds/game. And Evans was nearly 2 years younger.

 

Plus Evans was catching passes from Josh McCown, Mike Glennon and a rookie Jameis Winston.

 

I like Pitt, but I think that's a lofty comp.

 

But it's more about supplementing the WR room, so there is at least one proven option beyond him...to offset some of the unknown. 

 

 

 

 

It's a comparison based more on measurables and type of WR. 

 

Also we are looking at a really small smaple size for pittman. Of course Evans is a beast of a WR, but I don't know why people are trying to belittle what Pittman did this last season. He literally dominated the 9ers on his own. After a while last season you can see him being bracketed quite often. Wentz would stare him down and force passes to him repeatedly. I see that you covered this base by mentioning Mike's quarterbacks, but he wasnt on the same Offense as an 1800 yard rusher, and the circumstances surrounding Mikes rookie year and Pittmans are drastically different. 

 

Most running backs are sitting at 900-1200 yards and any productive RB will take stats away from the other players on the field. 

 

Also, coaching staff matters. Pittman was scaled up slowly and injured early his rookie season. Also Reich requires the WRs to learn all of the positions whereas Mike was allowed to play X almost non stop. I think pittman has a ways to go to prove himself but I don't think it's a bad comparison at all. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Mike Evans is pretty much a superstar though. First WR to ever start his career with 7-straight 1k+ seasons. After their first two seasons in the NFL, Evans was averaging 75 yds/game...Pitt is at 53 yds/game. And Evans was nearly 2 years younger.

 

Plus Evans was catching passes from Josh McCown, Mike Glennon and a rookie Jameis Winston.

 

I like Pitt, but I think that's a lofty comp.

 

But it's more about supplementing the WR room, so there is at least one proven option beyond him...to offset some of the unknown. 

Evans is certainly a beast no doubt. He benefited biggly though from the scheme he was in through the years. 

 

I wouldn't even begin to put Pittman in Evan's category yet, but he did play extremely well last season, and was #2 in the league in contested catches, which Evans was also know for. And Pittman played in almost a complete opposite system. Reich/conservative vs Air Coryell

[Hawkeyecolt]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t pretend to read every post in every thread….    But I’ve seen no post, no tweet, no story about Colts offers either to Landry or Robinson.   Zero.    
 

I’ve seen stories that said we might have interest if the money was right,  or that we need a receiver and the player would be a good fit.   But nothing about actual offers.  
 

Can you point me in the right direction?  A story or tweet or something?    Thnx!   

I follow the guys at The Blue Stable. Two of them are dead on with their sources. Destin Adams and Shaad McGinnis have both broke trades, FA signings, and coaching hires before the national and local media. Shaad’s brother is the dline coach for the Rams.  There are also a couple of sources out there that are credible. Shaad has also broke non-Colts stories. 

[EastStreet]

56 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

I follow the guys at The Blue Stable. Two of them are dead on with their sources. Destin Adams and Shaad McGinnis have both broke trades, FA signings, and coaching hires before the national and local media. Shaad’s brother is the dline coach for the Rams.  There are also a couple of sources out there that are credible. Shaad has also broke non-Colts stories. 

I read those guys (really just the site in general), but don't recall them saying we made an offer. I do recall an article on their site though saying Landry should be our #1 FA WR target. 

[throwing BBZ]

12 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

It's a comparison based more on measurables and type of WR. 

 

Also we are looking at a really small smaple size for pittman. Of course Evans is a beast of a WR, but I don't know why people are trying to belittle what Pittman did this last season. He literally dominated the 9ers on his own. After a while last season you can see him being bracketed quite often. Wentz would stare him down and force passes to him repeatedly. I see that you covered this base by mentioning Mike's quarterbacks, but he wasnt on the same Offense as an 1800 yard rusher, and the circumstances surrounding Mikes rookie year and Pittmans are drastically different. 

 

Most running backs are sitting at 900-1200 yards and any productive RB will take stats away from the other players on the field. 

 

Also, coaching staff matters. Pittman was scaled up slowly and injured early his rookie season. Also Reich requires the WRs to learn all of the positions whereas Mike was allowed to play X almost non stop. I think pittman has a ways to go to prove himself but I don't think it's a bad comparison at all. 

 

 You nailed the comparison. Pittman is already as good or better inside 15 yards because he has much quicker feet. It is going to be a blast to watch Pittman chew them up in this area thanks to Ryan as his QB and Reggie helping him polish it up. Smoking them up on the boundary will help him get behind them. Pittman will shine.

[MikeCurtis]

On 5/16/2022 at 12:38 PM, shasta519 said:

 

 

Moore's upside is definitely higher than Pierce's. 

 

Respectfully,  I dont think we know that yet, and upside is very tough to measure accurately

 

I think they BOTH will have successful careers

 

Pierce had a sometimes HIGHLY innacurate QB throwing to him. He adjusted well. 

 

The Colts drafting team is known to be one of the best.... They chose Pierce over Moore

 

I hope that we are both pleasantly surprised, with how Pierce does.

 

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:18 PM, AustinnKaine said:

It's a comparison based more on measurables and type of WR. 

 

Also we are looking at a really small smaple size for pittman. Of course Evans is a beast of a WR, but I don't know why people are trying to belittle what Pittman did this last season. He literally dominated the 9ers on his own. After a while last season you can see him being bracketed quite often. Wentz would stare him down and force passes to him repeatedly. I see that you covered this base by mentioning Mike's quarterbacks, but he wasnt on the same Offense as an 1800 yard rusher, and the circumstances surrounding Mikes rookie year and Pittmans are drastically different. 

 

Most running backs are sitting at 900-1200 yards and any productive RB will take stats away from the other players on the field. 

 

Also, coaching staff matters. Pittman was scaled up slowly and injured early his rookie season. Also Reich requires the WRs to learn all of the positions whereas Mike was allowed to play X almost non stop. I think pittman has a ways to go to prove himself but I don't think it's a bad comparison at all. 

I am not trying to belittle Pitt, just trying to keep it in perspective.
 

At the age Pitt was the past two years, Evans was putting up 1,200+ and 1,300+ yard seasons, averaging 80+ yds/game.

 

And doing so with garbage QBs.

 

Pitt could get there, but it would take a leap. I am just saying it’s a bit premature to assume the Colts already have that caliber of WR1 on the roster.

 

But even if they do have it, they should add more. TB’s offense still needed Godwin, AB and others to get to the level it was at. 

 

 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Respectfully,  I dont think we know that yet, and upside is very tough to measure accurately

 

I think they BOTH will have successful careers

 

Pierce had a sometimes HIGHLY innacurate QB throwing to him. He adjusted well. 

 

The Colts drafting team is known to be one of the best.... They chose Pierce over Moore

 

I hope that we are both pleasantly surprised, with how Pierce does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are right...we won't know until we know.

 

All we can do is try to project these players to the NFL to see which one has a better chance of being a highly-productive WR.

 

And I think Moore's overall profile projects better to being that type of player.

 

Not to digress into another post about the Colts approach at WR, but the Colts drafting team certainly is not infallible at WR. We have seen them pass over very good WRs in recent years.

 

But I am not even saying they did that here. We know they have a very specific process for drafting players, especially early. And taking Pierce over Moore is more about Pierce fitting their criteria better than Moore, not necessarily upside. That process can unearth a superstar like Leonard, but it can also create tunnel vision on certain players (Ben Banogu for example).

 

My final thoughts. I recall a good chunk of this fanbase being all about Moore prior to the draft. And I think if he had been the pick, the vast majority of the fanbase would have loved it and would have no issue with the premise of Moore having a better projection and upside. 

[shasta519]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:43 AM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You nailed the comparison. Pittman is already as good or better inside 15 yards because he has much quicker feet. It is going to be a blast to watch Pittman chew them up in this area thanks to Ryan as his QB and Reggie helping him polish it up. Smoking them up on the boundary will help him get behind them. Pittman will shine.

 

They do have similar height and speed. But Evans' arms are literally 2.5+ inches longer than Pittman's arms. The comp for Evans is somewhere between DK Metcalf and Kyle Pitts.

 

After three seasons, Evans had 27 TDs (played 46 games). He has averaged 9+ per season in his career.

 

Pittman has 7 career TDs heading into his third season (played 30 games). 

 

Pittman might be as good or better inside 15 yards, but he is not (yet) the deep threat or RZ threat that Evans has been since the moment he entered the NFL at age 21. 

 

Evans is just a different tier of WR. I will just leave this compilation of his 75 career TDs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCzc441CkY

 

If Pitt develops that type of game, the Colts will have a $25M WR on their hands.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Next week we will get first 11 on 11 so we will get to see him against our starters.

[throwing BBZ]

49 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

They do have similar height and speed. But Evans' arms are literally 2.5+ inches longer than Pittman's arms. The comp for Evans is somewhere between DK Metcalf and Kyle Pitts.

 

After three seasons, Evans had 27 TDs (played 46 games). He has averaged 9+ per season in his career.

 

Pittman has 7 career TDs heading into his third season (played 30 games). 

 

Pittman might be as good or better inside 15 yards, but he is not (yet) the deep threat or RZ threat that Evans has been since the moment he entered the NFL at age 21. 

 

Evans is just a different tier of WR. I will just leave this compilation of his 75 career TDs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCzc441CkY

 

If Pitt develops that type of game, the Colts will have a $25M WR on their hands.

 

 

 Pittmans "numbers" were as good or better than Evans last season.
 Red zone? THAT is the difference between Brady & Wentz, with a dose of an All-Pro running back.

 Pittman will have a better season than Evans.

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

You are right...we won't know until we know.

 

All we can do is try to project these players to the NFL to see which one has a better chance of being a highly-productive WR.

 

And I think Moore's overall profile projects better to being that type of player.

 

Not to digress into another post about the Colts approach at WR, but the Colts drafting team certainly is not infallible at WR. We have seen them pass over very good WRs in recent years.

 

But I am not even saying they did that here. We know they have a very specific process for drafting players, especially early. And taking Pierce over Moore is more about Pierce fitting their criteria better than Moore, not necessarily upside. That process can unearth a superstar like Leonard, but it can also create tunnel vision on certain players (Ben Banogu for example).

 

My final thoughts. I recall a good chunk of this fanbase being all about Moore prior to the draft. And I think if he had been the pick, the vast majority of the fanbase would have loved it and would have no issue with the premise of Moore having a better projection and upside. 

Louis Riddick thinks AP will win ORY this season. I'll go with his opinion over yours.

[chad72]

Folks, I expect 700-750 and 5 TDs from Pierce with about 50-60 receptions. If you have seen Reich's system enough, he spreads the ball around real well IF the QB is willing to do so without being just zeroed in on Pittman like Wentz was, that teams caught on to. Owing to that, there is a very good chance neither WR breaks 1000 yards with so many mouths to feed including our TEs and RBs, that Matt Ryan will throw to. Oh, and don't forget about the rushing production our star RB JT.  

 

I would reign in OPOY expectations from anyone not named JT but not reign in division winner expectations because in the end, that is all that matters. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Pittmans "numbers" were as good or better than Evans last season.
 Red zone? THAT is the difference between Brady & Wentz, with a dose of an All-Pro running back.

 Pittman will have a better season than Evans.

 

Evans' QBs his first 3 years were guys like Josh McCown, Mike Glennon and a rookie Jameis Winston. He's only had Brady the past two seasons.

 

Pitt very well might have a better year than Evans...he's 4 years younger and isn't contending for targets with a deep pass catching group like Evans is.

 

But I don't think anybody was comp'ing Pitt to the 29 year-old version of Mike Evans (who is entering his 9th season). 

 

Evans is very likely headed for a gold jacket. I just think it's a very lofty comp for Pitt at this point. But I am still excited to see him work with Ryan.

 

[#12.]

He looks exactly the same.

 

 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Louis Riddick thinks AP will win ORY this season. I'll go with his opinion over yours.

 

Riddick really said that? He has loved the Colts for a few years now.

 

Well I hope you guys bet on it on then...since he's currently 100:1. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

46 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Riddick really said that? He has loved the Colts for a few years now.

 

Well I hope you guys bet on it on then...since he's currently 100:1. 

https://twitter.com/lriddickespn/status/1526345115073134593?s=21&t=svOVkU2Ovx31OM8LX5ExBg

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

Riddick really said that? He has loved the Colts for a few years now.

 

Well I hope you guys bet on it on then...since he's currently 100:1. 

I put some money on Rich Strike...so why not Alec.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

You are right...we won't know until we know.

 

All we can do is try to project these players to the NFL to see which one has a better chance of being a highly-productive WR.

 

And I think Moore's overall profile projects better to being that type of player.

 

Not to digress into another post about the Colts approach at WR, but the Colts drafting team certainly is not infallible at WR. We have seen them pass over very good WRs in recent years.

 

But I am not even saying they did that here. We know they have a very specific process for drafting players, especially early. And taking Pierce over Moore is more about Pierce fitting their criteria better than Moore, not necessarily upside. That process can unearth a superstar like Leonard, but it can also create tunnel vision on certain players (Ben Banogu for example).

 

My final thoughts. I recall a good chunk of this fanbase being all about Moore prior to the draft. And I think if he had been the pick, the vast majority of the fanbase would have loved it and would have no issue with the premise of Moore having a better projection and upside. 

Some thoughts I’d like to share for your consideration…    As you may or may not be aware, of the receivers likely to be available, Watson was my first choice and Moore was a close second.   
 

Others who I wanted were Tolbert who is doing well in Dallas, Shakir, who is doing well in Buffalo, and Pierce, who is doing well with us.    (Feels like I’m forgetting someone?)

 

My point is this…. I expect guys like Moore to have a better career than Pierce.  He’s got a future Hall of Fame quarterback, and a system that values what he does.   Our system values Pierce.  Much taller,  just as fast, much better vertical, better blocker, better Red Zone.   But I don’t think he’ll put up better stats.   Does that mean we picked the wrong guy?   I don’t think so. 
 

Our system favors a high end SUV or Pickup.   KC’s system prefers a Porsche or Ferrari.   Not everyone wants the luxury Mercedes or BMW.   And I’m not looking forward to playing against KC and Moore for years to come watching him carve up our defense which I think he will.  We have a different way of doing things.   Just food for thought. 

[Superman]

7 hours ago, shasta519 said:

At the age Pitt was the past two years, Evans was putting up 1,200+ and 1,300+ yard seasons, averaging 80+ yds/game.

 

And doing so with garbage QBs.

 

I think you're being unfair to Campbell, but I absolutely agree with you on Pittman, especially in comparison with Mike Evans. Evans was immediately outstanding, and with bad QBing, and he entered the league two years younger than Pittman. Evans rookie year was better than Pittman's second season. I'd love to see Pittman give us 96 catches, 1300 yards, and 12 TDs like Evans did in Year 3, but I'm not counting on it.

 

They kind of look alike. Other than that, Evans play early in his career far surpassed what Pittman has done so far.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're being unfair to Campbell, but I absolutely agree with you on Pittman, especially in comparison with Mike Evans. Evans was immediately outstanding, and with bad QBing, and he entered the league two years younger than Pittman. Evans rookie year was better than Pittman's second season. I'd love to see Pittman give us 96 catches, 1300 yards, and 12 TDs like Evans did in Year 3, but I'm not counting on it.

 

They kind of look alike. Other than that, Evans play early in his career far surpassed what Pittman has done so far.

Let’s not forget Pittman missed 3 games his rookie year right when the game was slowing down.  He probably would of had 800 yards if that hadn’t happened.  Those YAC yards will be back for him with Ryan like he had with rivers and Ryan will throw the jump ball much more then rivers. Now Pittman has a QB that he can do both.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Let’s not forget Pittman missed 3 games his rookie year right when the game was slowing down.  He probably would of had 800 yards if that hadn’t happened.  Those YAC yards will be back for him with Ryan like he had with rivers and Ryan will throw the jump ball much more then rivers. Now Pittman has a QB that he can do both.

 

He's still no Mike Evans, not so far.

[shasta519]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're being unfair to Campbell, but I absolutely agree with you on Pittman, especially in comparison with Mike Evans. Evans was immediately outstanding, and with bad QBing, and he entered the league two years younger than Pittman. Evans rookie year was better than Pittman's second season. I'd love to see Pittman give us 96 catches, 1300 yards, and 12 TDs like Evans did in Year 3, but I'm not counting on it.

 

They kind of look alike. Other than that, Evans play early in his career far surpassed what Pittman has done so far.

 

I probably am being unfair to Campbell. I just think the offseason hype got way overblown for multiple seasons. And now, I just don't think they can rely on him to be more than a depth WR. But I feel like they sort of are still relying on him.

 

But I don't think I am being unfair to Pittman at all. I get the body comp with the height and similar speed. But Evans is a different dude. Dominated NCAAF as a fresh and sophomore...and was immediately one of the better WRs in the NFL as a rookie at age 21. Hasn't slowed down since. I think people sometimes forget about him because he's on a team that is loaded with pass catchers.

 

IMO, for Pitt to be the Colts version of Evans, he will have to be earn it. And admittedly, I am dubious about him being that level of WR. But I still think he will be a very good WR for years to come.

[shasta519]

17 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Let’s not forget Pittman missed 3 games his rookie year right when the game was slowing down.  He probably would of had 800 yards if that hadn’t happened.  Those YAC yards will be back for him with Ryan like he had with rivers and Ryan will throw the jump ball much more then rivers. Now Pittman has a QB that he can do both.

 

800 yards? Pitt was averaging less than 25 yds/game when he got hurt. Game slowing down or not, he wasn't going to put up 300 yds in the 3 games he missed. His best game as a rookie was 101 yards. 

 

Here's another comparison from their rookie seasons:

• As a 23 year-old rookie, Pitt had a 3-game midseason stretch with 223 yds and 1 TD (when he had the two long YAC plays against TEN and GB).
• As a 21 year-old rookie, Evans had a 3-game midseason stretch where he put up 458 yds and 5 TDs.

Getting to play with Ryan should certainly help, but I don't see Ryan throwing up as many YOLO passes like Wentz did. And Reich is the one calling the plays anyways. After the Winfield pick...I don't remember when many deep passes to Pitt.

[NewColtsFan]

57 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I probably am being unfair to Campbell. I just think the offseason hype got way overblown for multiple seasons. And now, I just don't think they can rely on him to be more than a depth WR. But I feel like they sort of are still relying on him.

 

But I don't think I am being unfair to Pittman at all. I get the body comp with the height and similar speed. But Evans is a different dude. Dominated NCAAF as a fresh and sophomore...and was immediately one of the better WRs in the NFL as a rookie at age 21. Hasn't slowed down since. I think people sometimes forget about him because he's on a team that is loaded with pass catchers.

 

IMO, for Pitt to be the Colts version of Evans, he will have to be earn it. And admittedly, I am dubious about him being that level of WR. But I still think he will be a very good WR for years to come.

Off-season hype?    For Campbell?   Parris Campbell?   He got off-season hype?   Really?    I’m sorry I missed that as that would strike me as silly.  
 

Don’t want to miss a moment like that….  
 

Ballard said in his year end review that they are NOT counting on PC, not with his injury history.  He likes him and hopes he’ll stay healthy, but is only giving him a fair shot.  Nothing more.  

[shasta519]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Some thoughts I’d like to share for your consideration…    As you may or may not be aware, of the receivers likely to be available, Watson was my first choice and Moore was a close second.   
 

Others who I wanted were Tolbert who is doing well in Dallas, Shakir, who is doing well in Buffalo, and Pierce, who is doing well with us.    (Feels like I’m forgetting someone?)

 

My point is this…. I expect guys like Moore to have a better career than Pierce.  He’s got a future Hall of Fame quarterback, and a system that values what he does.   Our system values Pierce.  Much taller,  just as fast, much better vertical, better blocker, better Red Zone.   But I don’t think he’ll put up better stats.   Does that mean we picked the wrong guy?   I don’t think so. 
 

Our system favors a high end SUV or Pickup.   KC’s system prefers a Porsche or Ferrari.   Not everyone wants the luxury Mercedes or BMW.   And I’m not looking forward to playing against KC and Moore for years to come watching him carve up our defense which I think he will.  We have a different way of doing things.   Just food for thought. 

 

I would expect that all rookies (who are healthy) are doing well at this point, only a couple of practices into rookie camp.

 

All I have been saying is that Moore projects to be a more highly-productive WR in the NFL. And that's both consistent production and peak production. And I don't know how else we are supposed to meaningfully measure upside.

 

I get that the Colts have a system that seems to value certain things. But I think Moore is a pretty similar deep threat at this point (which shows up on tape too). 

 

Where Moore stands out is his route-running. And given that the Colts don't really have a slot WR, I think Moore was a great fit for the system. 

 

So did a lot of the of the local media, as Keefer, Hicks and Bowen all had him as the Colts pick. Even Dane Brugler did as well. In the week leading up to the draft, the Mock draft database had nearly 40% of mock drafts with Moore to the Colts, which was the highest of any player. 

 

But I am not saying anybody was right or wrong. This is just a comp between two player (which I didn't even initially bring up).  

[shasta519]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Off-season hype?    For Campbell?   Parris Campbell?   He got off-season hype?   Really?    I’m sorry I missed that as that would strike me as silly.  
 

Don’t want to miss a moment like that….  
 

Ballard said in his year end review that they are NOT counting on PC, not with his injury history.  He likes him and hopes he’ll stay healthy, but is only giving him a fair shot.  Nothing more.  

 

Not this past offseason. Now it's an unknown.

 

But I don't how you missed the hype in past years. I wouldn't say people were certain that Campbell was going to be a breakout star, but they sure seemed to think it was a high probability.

 

I apologize for spamming a bunch of links, but here are several examples of the "hype" around Campbell that I found in about 5 minutes of googling: 

 

2020

https://www.colts.com/news/parris-campbell-breakout-candidate-2020-bleacher-report

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-finding-2020s-breakout-wide-receiver-parris-campbell

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/09/12/colts-everything-is-lining-up-for-parris-campbell-jr-s-breakout-season/

 

2021

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/23/indianapolis-colts-parris-campbell-breakout-candidate-2021/

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/08/indianapolis-colts-parris-campbell-breakout-the-atheltic/

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/6/18/22539652/what-can-a-healthy-parris-campbell-bring-to-the-colts-offense-in-2021

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/313378/parris-campbell-expected-to-be-colts-breakout-candidate-per-beat-writer.php

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2021/05/19/indianapolis-colts-news-parris-campbell/5018412001/

https://247sports.com/Article/Indianapolis-Colts-Parris-Campbell-ready-for-breakout-season-Ohio-State-football-166396222/

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Not this past offseason. Now it's an unknown.

 

But I don't how you missed the hype in past years. I wouldn't say people were certain that Campbell was going to be a breakout star, but they sure seemed to think it was a high probability.

 

I apologize for spamming a bunch of links, but here are several examples of the "hype" around Campbell that I found in about 5 minutes of googling: 

 

2020

https://www.colts.com/news/parris-campbell-breakout-candidate-2020-bleacher-report

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-finding-2020s-breakout-wide-receiver-parris-campbell

https://horseshoeheroes.com/2020/09/12/colts-everything-is-lining-up-for-parris-campbell-jr-s-breakout-season/

 

2021

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/23/indianapolis-colts-parris-campbell-breakout-candidate-2021/

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/08/indianapolis-colts-parris-campbell-breakout-the-atheltic/

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2021/6/18/22539652/what-can-a-healthy-parris-campbell-bring-to-the-colts-offense-in-2021

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/313378/parris-campbell-expected-to-be-colts-breakout-candidate-per-beat-writer.php

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2021/05/19/indianapolis-colts-news-parris-campbell/5018412001/

https://247sports.com/Article/Indianapolis-Colts-Parris-Campbell-ready-for-breakout-season-Ohio-State-football-166396222/

Im sorry….  I didn’t mean to have you do a Google search.  I think we got our wires crossed.   I recognize that over the years there have been stories written about PC.    

I thought you were talking about THIS off-season.   And I think the hype machine has been pretty muted as it should be.   The flavor of most stories seems to be this….  Good kid, nice kid, hard working, easy to root for….  And….   Sure hope he can stay healthy….     But otherwise, there isn’t much to say….  
 

 

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I would expect that all rookies (who are healthy) are doing well at this point, only a couple of practices into rookie camp.

 

All I have been saying is that Moore projects to be a more highly-productive WR in the NFL. And that's both consistent production and peak production. And I don't know how else we are supposed to meaningfully measure upside.

 

I get that the Colts have a system that seems to value certain things. But I think Moore is a pretty similar deep threat at this point (which shows up on tape too). 

 

Where Moore stands out is his route-running. And given that the Colts don't really have a slot WR, I think Moore was a great fit for the system. 

 

So did a lot of the of the local media, as Keefer, Hicks and Bowen all had him as the Colts pick. Even Dane Brugler did as well. In the week leading up to the draft, the Mock draft database had nearly 40% of mock drafts with Moore to the Colts, which was the highest of any player. 

 

But I am not saying anybody was right or wrong. This is just a comp between two player (which I didn't even initially bring up).  

Believe me, you don’t have to sell Moore to me.   I’m on his band wagon.   I don’t look forward to watching the Mahomes-Moore combo for years to come. 
 

Ballard was at KC when the Chiefs drafted Tyreke Hill.  I think Ballard did the character research to make sure he was even draftable.   Obviously very talented, but fell in the draft due to character.   But I thought Moore had a lot of similarities to Hill, but without the bad baggage.   So I thought we’d take him.  I was surprised we didn’t. 
 

I think Ballard is into size most everywhere.  Especially at receiver.  Even at Flanker where many teams use a guy 5’9” to 5’11”, our guys Campbell and Dulin are 6’0” and 6’1”.  Of course, you know the rest of our receivers are much taller.  So I think height is a major thing for us.   
 

Clearly Ballard has very unique views.  For better, and maybe even worse…

[shasta519]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im sorry….  I didn’t mean to have you do a Google search.  I think we got our wires crossed.   I recognize that over the years there have been stories written about PC.    

I thought you were talking about THIS off-season.   And I think the hype machine has been pretty muted as it should be.   The flavor of most stories seems to be this….  Good kid, nice kid, hard working, easy to root for….  And….   Sure hope he can stay healthy….     But otherwise, there isn’t much to say….  
 

 

It’s all good. I think the PC hype has been fine this offseason. I just thought it was a bit much in years past.

 

We’re all rooting for him at this point. I just don’t want to rely on him, which is why I wanted a vet and rookie help this offseason. 

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

It’s all good. I think the PC hype has been fine this offseason. I just thought it was a bit much in years past.

 

We’re all rooting for him at this point. I just don’t want to rely on him, which is why I wanted a vet and rookie help this offseason. 

For what it’s worth, and this caught me completely off guard….   But PFF has done analysis, next gen stats stuff on various positions this week.   One position — wide receiver.   
 

And one WR who scored high in, I think, three different categories was Will Fuller, the former Texan and Dolphin.  He’s made pretty good money of late, so I’m not sure he’s willing to take a lower offer, but he certainly caught my eye.  And yes, I know of his injury history.  Not sure he doesn’t have a hamstring he hasn’t pulled or a groin he hast strained.  He seemingly always has some soft tissue problem.   Go figure?  

[Superman]

On 5/20/2022 at 9:08 AM, NewColtsFan said:

For what it’s worth, and this caught me completely off guard….   But PFF has done analysis, next gen stats stuff on various positions this week.   One position — wide receiver.   
 

And one WR who scored high in, I think, three different categories was Will Fuller, the former Texan and Dolphin.  He’s made pretty good money of late, so I’m not sure he’s willing to take a lower offer, but he certainly caught my eye.  And yes, I know of his injury history.  Not sure he doesn’t have a hamstring he hasn’t pulled or a groin he hast strained.  He seemingly always has some soft tissue problem.   Go figure?  

 

Will Fuller has always been good, he just can't stay healthy. He's missed 25 games the last three seasons, including 15 last year. So unless the training staff is looking for new ways to keep busy, I don't see the point.

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Will Fuller has always been good, he just can't stay healthy. He's missed 25 games the last three seasons, including 15 last year. So unless the training staff is looking for new ways to keep busy, I don't see the point.

First off, I think this highly unlikely to ever happen for a variety of reasons.  
 

That said, it simply struck me there are now precious few WRs who might move the needle..    So guys like Hilton and Jones also have health issues and would play limited snaps to one degree or another.   And if we’re considering guys on a limited pitch count then a player like Fuller who seems to alter defenses would offer some value even if his actual catches were somewhat limited.  
 

Just thinking out loud with the realization that chances of this happening are between slim and none and Slim is riding out of town. 
 

Question:  do you think we honestly want TYH back on a very reduced contract?   Or are we secretly hoping he signs with someone else? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

First off, I think this highly unlikely to ever happen for a variety of reasons.  
 

That said, it simply struck me there are now precious few WRs who might move the needle..    So guys like Hilton and Jones also have health issues and would play limited snaps to one degree or another.   And if we’re considering guys on a limited pitch count then a player like Fuller who seems to alter defenses would offer some value even if his actual catches were somewhat limited.  
 

Just thinking out loud with the realization that chances of this happening are between slim and none and Slim is riding out of town. 
 

Question:  do you think we honestly want TYH back on a very reduced contract?   Or are we secretly hoping he signs with someone else? 

I want TY back. He has put his heart and soul into the franchise. 3rd best WR ever in Indy. This may be a chance that he gets a ring, who knows? Let him play 1 more year and retire as a Colt. He can play with Matt Ryan, a legit QB.

 

Take history out of the equation, I still think he is above average and could give us 4 or 5 good games in clutch moments. So this isn't just a history thing with me. 1 more year and add his Vet leadership. We have nothing to lose.