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Giants shopping WR Kadarius Toney


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He went 20th overall last year, ironically right before Kwity Paye. I'm guessing it'll cost a 3rd round pick or something to get him since he is still extremely young and had some production last year.

 

I would personally give up a day 3 pick, but not a 3rd rounder.

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He is worth a 3rd I would think.  I would prefer to go with a future though.  If they want a pick this year maybe they would take a 4th and one of our receivers; Patmon, Strachan or Campbell.  If not I would do this year’s 3rd and if we did maybe they would do a swap of picks as part of the deal.  He is a great talent that fills a need.

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good talent, young, strong hands. I would give up a 4 for him. He is also under a rookie contract through 2025 (cheap) and has the experience of being in the league 1 year which is huge.

A 4 is probably fair tbh. That's when the talent pool of WRs in this class will start falling off (in the 4th round), and that's the point Toney will be worth about as much as anyone in that tier IMO.

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5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

A 4 is probably fair tbh. That's when the talent pool of WRs in this class will start falling off (in the 4th round), and that's the point Toney will be worth about as much as anyone in that tier IMO.

I would still draft a WR with my 2, draft a LT with my 3, if we did trade our 4 for Toney. We would have 2 potentially good WR's for the future if that happened and a LT that can compete with Pryor or maybe even be better. Regarding TE, I can still see Mo having an above average year as in over 40 catches and 4 or 5 TD's because of Matt Ryan. Mo is extremely athletic, he just hasn't been used right IMO. I hope TY Hilton would agree to something like a 1 yr deal for 6 Mill or so as well. I still think he can give us 4 or 5 good games. 

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5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would still draft a WR with my 2, draft a LT with my 3, if we did trade our 4 for Toney. We would have 2 potentially good WR's for the future if that happened and a LT that can compete with Pryor or maybe even be better. Regarding TE, I can still see Mo having an above average year as in over 40 catches and 4 or 5 TD's because of Matt Ryan. Mo is extremely athletic, he just hasn't been used right IMO. I hope TY Hilton would agree to something like a 1 yr deal for 6 Mill or so as well. I still think he can give us 4 or 5 good games. 

I mostly agree. I would draft a LT in the 2nd, a WR in the 3rd, and trade for Toney with the 4th. I also want nothing to do with TY at this point. No disrespect to what he's done here, but he'd just be baggage here at this point. He's declining, no upside, and he'd take reps away from our young receivers. The only positive would be the leadership, and we have Reggie for that. I'd prefer Julio if we go the veteran route, at least in his case the decline is more due to injury rather than age IMO. I also trust the old chemistry of Ryan and Julio more as well.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good talent, young, strong hands. I would give up a 4 for him. He is also under a rookie contract through 2025 (cheap) and has the experience of being in the league 1 year which is huge.

For all of the reasons you gave I would be surprised if they took a 4th.  He is one year removed from being a 1st rd pick who produced and now has a year’s experience.  He is not a 1st rd bust right now.  Anyone drafted in the 3rd rd and beyond has a higher chance to bust than Toney.  They might take a 4th with a sweetener.  Like another pick or a player.  He’s an ideal fit for our offense and he is young and proving himself.  Ballard has to be really tempted.  But he won’t be alone.  The Chiefs, Jets and Patriots come to mind in the AFC.  I would be surprised if a 4th alone gets it done.

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12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

For all of the reasons you gave I would be surprised if they took a 4th.  He is one year removed from being a 1st rd pick who produced and now has a year’s experience.  He is not a 1st rd bust right now.  Anyone drafted in the 3rd rd and beyond has a higher chance to bust than Toney.  They might take a 4th with a sweetener.  Like another pick or a player.  He’s an ideal fit for our offense and he is young and proving himself.  Ballard has to be really tempted.  But he won’t be alone.  The Chiefs, Jets and Patriots come to mind in the AFC.  I would be surprised if a 4th alone gets it done.

He also had trouble learning the playbook, which may be a reason why they are trying to unload him. That could mean numerous things. Anywhere from him being lazy, all the way to him possibly not being smart enough to actually learn the concepts of it. I'm curious on the % of snaps he played last year in his 10 games he was in, that might determine if he was only able to learn certain parts of the playbook, and it made him much less useful as a receiver.

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14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

For all of the reasons you gave I would be surprised if they took a 4th.  He is one year removed from being a 1st rd pick who produced and now has a year’s experience.  He is not a 1st rd bust right now.  Anyone drafted in the 3rd rd and beyond has a higher chance to bust than Toney.  They might take a 4th with a sweetener.  Like another pick or a player.  He’s an ideal fit for our offense and he is young and proving himself.  Ballard has to be really tempted.  But he won’t be alone.  The Chiefs, Jets and Patriots come to mind in the AFC.  I would be surprised if a 4th alone gets it done.

 

  As a fantasy GM 2006 would give a 4th.

  After all your wind you offered nothing.

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39 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He also had trouble learning the playbook, which may be a reason why they are trying to unload him. That could mean numerous things. Anywhere from him being lazy, all the way to him possibly not being smart enough to actually learn the concepts of it. I'm curious on the % of snaps he played last year in his 10 games he was in, that might determine if he was only able to learn certain parts of the playbook, and it made him much less useful as a receiver.

If Ballard was high on him as rumored the playbook reports don’t make sense.  Knowing how thorough our scouting is I think they would have caught that.  Intelligence, laziness all would have been vetted.  I would doubt he would be high on Ballard’s board with those issues.  On any teams board for that matter yet he goes 20th in the draft.  Strange.

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

For all of the reasons you gave I would be surprised if they took a 4th.  He is one year removed from being a 1st rd pick who produced and now has a year’s experience.  He is not a 1st rd bust right now.  Anyone drafted in the 3rd rd and beyond has a higher chance to bust than Toney.  They might take a 4th with a sweetener.  Like another pick or a player.  He’s an ideal fit for our offense and he is young and proving himself.  Ballard has to be really tempted.  But he won’t be alone.  The Chiefs, Jets and Patriots come to mind in the AFC.  I would be surprised if a 4th alone gets it done.

The most I would give up is a 3 and at that point I would probably take a LT with my 2. I would have to change strategy because taking a LT with a 4 is iffy to whether or not they will pan out. IMO a LT would have a better chance of panning out taken in the 2nd round.

 

@Jared Cisneros, TY's best days are behind him but for 6 mill over 1 year I would bring him back. He still has his moments and that is a huge paycut for him. That VET leadership alone is big. 

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Just now, richard pallo said:

If Ballard was high on him as rumored the playbook reports don’t make sense.  Knowing how thorough our scouting is I think they would have caught that.  Intelligence, laziness all would have been vetted.  I would doubt he would be high on Ballard’s board with those issues.  On any teams board for that matter yet he goes 20th in the draft.  Strange.

TBH, I never heard any credible report that Ballard was interested in Toney. In fact, on "with the next pick" when Toney was taken right before us, Ballard and everyone else in the Colts draft room was excited. They wanted Paye bad, if there's anything credible about Toney being a target of the Colts, I'd like to hear it.

 

That's not to say Toney was disliked by the Colts. but I heard nothing about them being interested in him, and I paid attention yo every episode that year, every interview of Ballards, and all the draft buzz and rumors and heard nothing.

 

 

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

TBH, I never heard any credible report that Ballard was interested in Toney. In fact, on "with the next pick" when Toney was taken right before us, Ballard and everyone else in the Colts draft room was excited. They wanted Paye bad, if there's anything credible about Toney being a target of the Colts, I'd like to hear it.

 

That's not to say Toney was disliked by the Colts. but I heard nothing about them being interested in him, and I paid attention yo every episode that year, every interview of Ballards, and all the draft buzz and rumors and heard nothing.

 

 

We needed pass rush really bad, that wins a lot of games. I liked the Paye pick. I wish we would've taken a LT with our 2nd pick though, I wasn't excited about the Dayo pick. He could still pan out but taking 2 Pass Rushers in a row was odd + Dayo was coming off a major injury.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The most I would give up is a 3 and at that point I would probably take a LT with my 2. I would have to change strategy because taking a LT with a 4 is iffy to whether or not they will pan out. IMO a LT would have a better chance of panning out taken in the 2nd round.

 

@Jared Cisneros, TY's best days are behind him but for 6 mill over 1 year I would bring him back. He still has his moments and that is a huge paycut for him. That VET leadership alone is big. 

I wouldn't bring Hilton back for 1 year 2 million tbh. Even if you want to say him and Julio are equal (which I would disagree with, not saying you said that, just saying it hypothetically), Julio has 6 inches I believe on Hilton, and he has prior chemistry with Matt Ryan. He could also have Vet leadership.

 

I believe Julio is worth 600-800 yards and 5-6 tds if he stays healthy all year. I would say TY is worth around 400 yards and 3-4 tds. Even if Julio plays half a year, that would still be as good as Hilton IMO, and you would have the added benefit of a young WR getting playing time while he's out. In Hilton's case, he would be taking up all the snaps, and not producing, while simultaneously taking snaps from the young receivers.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We needed pass rush really bad, that wins a lot of games. I liked the Paye pick. I wish we would've taken a LT with our 2nd pick though, I wasn't excited about the Dayo pick. He could still pan out but taking 2 Pass Rushers in a row was odd + Dayo was coming off a major injury.

Yeah, I hated the Dayo pick. We had already taken Paye in round 1, he had the achilles injury, and on top of that, it seemed like a reach for a guy that was an athletic freak. The positive about that is he should be fully recovered, so we'll get a better idea if he can succeed at the NFL level in year 2.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wouldn't bring Hilton back for 1 year 2 million tbh. Even if you want to say him and Julio are equal (which I would disagree with, not saying you said that, just saying it hypothetically), Julio has 6 inches I believe on Hilton, and he has prior chemistry with Matt Ryan. He could also have Vet leadership.

 

I believe Julio is worth 600-800 yards and 5-6 tds if he stays healthy all year. I would say TY is worth around 400 yards and 3-4 tds. Even if Julio plays half a year, that would still be as good as Hilton IMO, and you would have the added benefit of a young WR getting playing time while he's out. In Hilton's case, he would be taking up all the snaps, and not producing, while simultaneously taking snaps from the young receivers.

I don't know, Julio was injured and really non-productive last year. Yeah if Julio can stay on the field I would tend to agree. 

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, I hated the Dayo pick. We had already taken Paye in round 1, he had the achilles injury, and on top of that, it seemed like a reach for a guy that was an athletic freak. The positive about that is he should be fully recovered, so we'll get a better idea if he can succeed at the NFL level in year 2.

Yeah we will find out if Ballard made the right choice this season because Dayo will be 100%.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know, Julio was injured and really non-productive last year. Yeah if Julio can stay on the field I would tend to agree. 

Julio was mainly unproductive because of injury, while TY has just seemed to decline because of a loss of speed and his age. I'll take the bigger guy that hasn't fallen off as much skill-wise and has chemistry with a new QB that is trying to win now. If it was Luck at QB, then keep Hilton. With Ryan, I prefer Julio, as Hilton really provides no advantage IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

TBH, I never heard any credible report that Ballard was interested in Toney. In fact, on "with the next pick" when Toney was taken right before us, Ballard and everyone else in the Colts draft room was excited. They wanted Paye bad, if there's anything credible about Toney being a target of the Colts, I'd like to hear it.

 

That's not to say Toney was disliked by the Colts. but I heard nothing about them being interested in him, and I paid attention yo every episode that year, every interview of Ballards, and all the draft buzz and rumors and heard nothing.

 

 

All the excitement tells me they couldn’t believe Paye fell to them and they had him rated high.  Good for the Colts.  Not a reflection on Toney imo.

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Julio was mainly unproductive because of injury, while TY has just seemed to decline because of a loss of speed and his age. I'll take the bigger guy that hasn't fallen off as much skill-wise and has chemistry with a new QB that is trying to win now. If it was Luck at QB, then keep Hilton. With Ryan, I prefer Julio, as Hilton really provides no advantage IMO.

We may go with Julio but I wouldn't offer him more than 6 Mill over 1 year either. He and TY are worth about the same IMO. TY made 10 Mill last year so that is a 40% paycut for him. Julio is more gifted so I can't debate that and he played with Matt throughout his prime years. In Julio's prime he was better than TY and TY was good but they both are old now.

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

All the excitement tells me they couldn’t believe Paye fell to them and they had him rated high.  Good for the Colts.  Not a reflection on Toney imo.

I think Ballard had Paye rated in the top 15 or so out of all players, I heard that somewhere but can't remember so yeah that is why he was excited.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We may go with Julio but I wouldn't offer him more than 6 Mill over 1 year either. He and TY are worth about the same IMO. TY made 10 Mill last year so that is a 40% paycut for him. Julio is more gifted so I can't debate that and he played with Matt throughout his prime years. In Julio's prime he was better than TY and TY was good but they both are old now.

Good post. I'm just trying to gain as many advantages as I can here with what is left in FA. I saw Burrow and Chase on the Bengals last year, and I guarantee you their chemistry is what made Chase so good, so fast in the NFL. They played together since high school. Julio wouldn't be the no1 on the team, but he'd be a dependable no2/3 WR that Matt Ryan has previous experience with, and that is acceptable if you also add a day 2 WR in the draft.

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Ballard had Paye rated in the top 15 or so out of all players, I heard that somewhere but can't remember so yeah that is why he was excited.

He was ranked #10.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Good post. I'm just trying to gain as many advantages as I can here with what is left in FA. I saw Burrow and Chase on the Bengals last year, and I guarantee you their chemistry is what made Chase so good, so fast in the NFL. They played together since high school. Julio wouldn't be the no1 on the team, but he'd be a dependable no2/3 WR that Matt Ryan has previous experience with, and that is acceptable if you also add a day 2 WR in the draft.

He was ranked #10.

Yeah I thought I remembered JMV (local radio Colts host) saying he had Paye in the top 15 but #10 is probably accurate. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/23/2022 at 9:01 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would still draft a WR with my 2, draft a LT with my 3, if we did trade our 4 for Toney. We would have 2 potentially good WR's for the future if that happened and a LT that can compete with Pryor or maybe even be better. Regarding TE, I can still see Mo having an above average year as in over 40 catches and 4 or 5 TD's because of Matt Ryan. Mo is extremely athletic, he just hasn't been used right IMO. I hope TY Hilton would agree to something like a 1 yr deal for 6 Mill or so as well. I still think he can give us 4 or 5 good games. 

Time to move on from Hilton. Colts don’t need him to have his two big games against the Texans. That realistically is what he has done the past couple seasons. 

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