Ijalana Is Tackle Material, Nevis Is Back Up Nt

[chad72]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/26302/quick-hits-from-polian-and-caldwell

Paul Kuharsky bits after his conversation with Bill Polian and Jim Caldwell

[Superman]

I don't see Nevis as a nose tackle. Seems pretty clear that he's a three tech. Having him back up AJ is fine, but I think asking him to play the Booger role is problematic at this point. Maybe he grows into that role in a season or two.

Ijalana at tackle is an interesting development, and one that makes me wish we had kept CJ instead of Diem. That situation broke the way it did due to money, obviously, but I assumed after CJ left that Ijalana would play the flex linemen role and slide from guard to tackle as necessary. Seems now that he's being placed exclusively at tackle, which is fine as long as he picks it up. But it would be nice to have that flexibility in a veteran player.

[indy_nick]

I guess that makes sense as to why we re-signed Diem then. It looks like Ijalana will get some experience at RT in the pre-season. It should also be noted that Diem was signed to a 1 year contract, which means Ijalana could be starting next season, if he does not make that transition late in this upcoming season.

[chad72]

Maybe they think Drake Nevis is the next Justin Tuck, who knows??? Yeah, it is too early to expect Booger like performance from him. Maybe, with the help of good LB and safety play, they can deal with the run heavy division but prepare ultimately for the elite teams which are more pass heavy where Nevis will come in more handy.

[Superman]

Maybe they think Drake Nevis is the next Justin Tuck, who knows??? Yeah, it is too early to expect Booger like performance from him. Maybe, with the help of good LB and safety play, they can deal with the run heavy division but prepare ultimately for the elite teams which are more pass heavy where Nevis will come in more handy.

Justin Tuck is a five tech hybrid, though. That's what we need Jamal Anderson to be. Raheem Brock at 130%. That's not Nevis at all, especially if we're grooming him to be a nose tackle.

[chad72]

Justin Tuck is a five tech hybrid, though. That's what we need Jamal Anderson to be. Raheem Brock at 130%. That's not Nevis at all, especially if we're grooming him to be a nose tackle.

Yeah, we might run him to the ground in a run heavy division if he plays as a back up nose tackle. I hope it works out (crossing my fingers).

Or, maybe the old Bill is losing it, and he meant to say Mathews instead of Nevis :-), who has been practicing as back up NT in camp.

[Coffeedrinker]

People assume a nose tackle has to be big and that's not the case, especially in the situation Chad72 noted. The nose tackle needs to be able to occupy two blockers. He can accomplish that by being an immovable rock that takes two guys to budge him or that can be accomplished by just being too quick to consistently be blocked by one player. From what I watched of his LSU highlights and what I have heard from the camp reports Nevis falls into the 2nd category. Nevis also seems to have the added ability to sit in a gap and be stout.

That means that whomever is playing the UT in the rotation needs to defeat one on one blocking

[GoColts00]

I think most of Diem's problems with false starts can be "cured" by moving him to RG and allowing Link or Ijalana 2B RT

[Flaming Spaz]

I think most of Diem's problems with false starts can be "cured" by moving him to RG and allowing Link or Ijalana 2B RT

I agree some of his false starts were killers

[Superman]

People assume a nose tackle has to be big and that's not the case, especially in the situation Chad72 noted. The nose tackle needs to be able to occupy two blockers. He can accomplish that by being an immovable rock that takes two guys to budge him or that can be accomplished by just being too quick to consistently be blocked by one player. From what I watched of his LSU highlights and what I have heard from the camp reports Nevis falls into the 2nd category. Nevis also seems to have the added ability to sit in a gap and be stout.

That means that whomever is playing the UT in the rotation needs to defeat one on one blocking

A good nose tackle typically occupies two blockers because he has the strength to push his man into the backfield one on one. It's not just about requiring a double team, because if that were the case you could put a good end at nose tackle. Freeney would require a double team every down if he played interior line. Problem is that you can counter his effectiveness, particularly on running plays, by simply redirecting him. A good nose tackle can't simply be redirected and taken out of the play; he can be counted on to overpower his man most of the time.

He doesn't have to be 350 pounds, but he's not a "go around you" type player. That's a three tech. And you can play an effective front scheme with two three techs and no nose tackle, provided they play with discipline. We can use Nevis to spell AJ, but I don't think he's going to be a typical block-occupying nose tackle. He'll be disruptive, and he'll get penetration, but that's not the only thing that a nose tackle does. If Nevis can "sit in the gap and be stout," as you put it, then that makes him a suitable candidate for the position. But his being disruptive doesn't.

[doogansquest]

A good nose tackle typically occupies two blockers because he has the strength to push his man into the backfield one on one. It's not just about requiring a double team, because if that were the case you could put a good end at nose tackle. Freeney would require a double team every down if he played interior line. Problem is that you can counter his effectiveness, particularly on running plays, by simply redirecting him. A good nose tackle can't simply be redirected and taken out of the play; he can be counted on to overpower his man most of the time.

He doesn't have to be 350 pounds, but he's not a "go around you" type player. That's a three tech. And you can play an effective front scheme with two three techs and no nose tackle, provided they play with discipline. We can use Nevis to spell AJ, but I don't think he's going to be a typical block-occupying nose tackle. He'll be disruptive, and he'll get penetration, but that's not the only thing that a nose tackle does. If Nevis can "sit in the gap and be stout," as you put it, then that makes him a suitable candidate for the position. But his being disruptive doesn't.

And reports from camp have suggested that he's been a menace to stop, or move off of his spot, even in 2-on-1 drills. He possesses strength, and speed. He's just not 330+ pounds, which is really an arbitrary number if the guy can play.

Keep in mind, these scouts and coaches know a lot more about football, and this particular situation, than either you or I. In other words, if they say Nevis can play NT, and play it well, then they know what they are talking about.

[Coffeedrinker]

A good nose tackle typically occupies two blockers because he has the strength to push his man into the backfield one on one. It's not just about requiring a double team, because if that were the case you could put a good end at nose tackle. Freeney would require a double team every down if he played interior line. Problem is that you can counter his effectiveness, particularly on running plays, by simply redirecting him. A good nose tackle can't simply be redirected and taken out of the play; he can be counted on to overpower his man most of the time.

He doesn't have to be 350 pounds, but he's not a "go around you" type player. That's a three tech. And you can play an effective front scheme with two three techs and no nose tackle, provided they play with discipline. We can use Nevis to spell AJ, but I don't think he's going to be a typical block-occupying nose tackle. He'll be disruptive, and he'll get penetration, but that's not the only thing that a nose tackle does. If Nevis can "sit in the gap and be stout," as you put it, then that makes him a suitable candidate for the position. But his being disruptive doesn't.

I disagree about being disruptive not allowing him to do that, especially in the Colts scheme that is so much occupying a gap. The main idea in the Colts D is for the D to create the area for the runner to hit and have a LB in that spot to make the tackle. If the DT can occupy can occupy his gap in the backfield that is going to force the 2nd blocker to engage him. When that 2nd blocker starts focusing on the DT that leaves another LB free to flow to the defense created gap and make the tackle or force the play wider which allows time for the CB and/or safeties to come up and make the play. That has been my complaint about Mookie. He is good at getting to his gap and, when he's rested, he's good at following the play. When he's winded he will go to his gap and just stop allowing just one blocker to keep him in place which allows the other blocker to go out and get the LB, which leaves the RB one on one with the LB. So if the LB misreads the play, is late getting there or misses the tackle it leads to a big gain.

Overall, I believe, it does not what a player does to occupy two blockers, if he does it, it is a win for the D. Like I said earlier, if he does it because he's a man mountain that requires two people to move him... great. If he does it because he's constantly in the backfield disrupting the play before it can get started, great.

[Superman]

And reports from camp have suggested that he's been a menace to stop, or move off of his spot, even in 2-on-1 drills. He possesses strength, and speed. He's just not 330+ pounds, which is really an arbitrary number if the guy can play.

Keep in mind, these scouts and coaches know a lot more about football, and this particular situation, than either you or I. In other words, if they say Nevis can play NT, and play it well, then they know what they are talking about.

Absolutely.

I'm not saying he can't play the position. I'm just saying that what I've seen and heard doesn't equate to nose tackle, in my mind. I'll be looking at him in particular on Saturday (which I would have been doing anyways) to see what he looks like against actual competition. Everything I've heard, in my mind I had him pegged as a standout three tech tackle, not a project at nose tackle. If he can do it, then more power. It would actually be better for us than to have 3 three techs.

I will, however, point out that our front office and coaching staff played undersized and unsuited players at defensive tackle many times over the years. And if you're a good nose tackle by definition, those extra 30 pounds aren't a bad thing. There's no arbitrary number that makes you a good player, but when you're consistently going up against bigger, heavier dudes, you start to wear down over the course of a game. So all things being equal, if you have to choose between a good nose tackle at 300 pounds and at 330 pounds, you'll probably see the benefit to some extra size. If you value athleticism over size, like our team does, then you make up for smaller players with scheme and execution. And I'm fine with that. I don't care about how much Nevis weighs. I care about how he plays.

[Superman]

I disagree about being disruptive not allowing him to do that, especially in the Colts scheme that is so much occupying a gap. The main idea in the Colts D is for the D to create the area for the runner to hit and have a LB in that spot to make the tackle. If the DT can occupy can occupy his gap in the backfield that is going to force the 2nd blocker to engage him. When that 2nd blocker starts focusing on the DT that leaves another LB free to flow to the defense created gap and make the tackle or force the play wider which allows time for the CB and/or safeties to come up and make the play. That has been my complaint about Mookie. He is good at getting to his gap and, when he's rested, he's good at following the play. When he's winded he will go to his gap and just stop allowing just one blocker to keep him in place which allows the other blocker to go out and get the LB, which leaves the RB one on one with the LB. So if the LB misreads the play, is late getting there or misses the tackle it leads to a big gain.

Overall, I believe, it does not what a player does to occupy two blockers, if he does it, it is a win for the D. Like I said earlier, if he does it because he's a man mountain that requires two people to move him... great. If he does it because he's constantly in the backfield disrupting the play before it can get started, great.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said. But you're describing a three tech tackle, not a nose tackle. That's fine, we can be effective using a three tech at nose as long as everyone is disciplined, but his being disruptive doesn't necessarily mean the offense has to double team him in order to account for him. You can counter or misdirect to take the play away from him, and use that extra blocker on the linebacker anyway, and by the time the tackle gets off his block the play is upfield already. Or you can run bootleg play action and use one man to move that disruptive tackle to the other side of the field at the snap, and now he's behind the play and ball is gone by the time he gets near the quarterback. Or you can use a fullback, still double the tackle on the play side with an extra lineman, and put the fullback on the linebacker.

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm not disagreeing with what you said. But you're describing a three tech tackle, not a nose tackle. That's fine, we can be effective using a three tech at nose as long as everyone is disciplined, but his being disruptive doesn't necessarily mean the offense has to double team him in order to account for him. You can counter or misdirect to take the play away from him, and use that extra blocker on the linebacker anyway, and by the time the tackle gets off his block the play is upfield already. Or you can run bootleg play action and use one man to move that disruptive tackle to the other side of the field at the snap, and now he's behind the play and ball is gone by the time he gets near the quarterback. Or you can use a fullback, still double the tackle on the play side with an extra lineman, and put the fullback on the linebacker.

Well yes for most things in the NFL there is a counter to it. That is why the coordinators make a pretty good living, to figure things like that out.

[WoolMagnet]

IMO, this is good news. The fact that we are discussing options at DT and OL is a nice contrast to previous years.

I'm actually VERY excited to see what happens at the LOS on both sides of the ball.

[John Dee]

I don't see Nevis as a nose tackle. Seems pretty clear that he's a three tech. Having him back up AJ is fine, but I think asking him to play the Booger role is problematic at this point. Maybe he grows into that role in a season or two.

Ijalana at tackle is an interesting development, and one that makes me wish we had kept CJ instead of Diem. That situation broke the way it did due to money, obviously, but I assumed after CJ left that Ijalana would play the flex linemen role and slide from guard to tackle as necessary. Seems now that he's being placed exclusively at tackle, which is fine as long as he picks it up. But it would be nice to have that flexibility in a veteran player.

Chap has said it appears to him "Linkenback" is the new Charlie...

[Rich Cannon]

I guess that makes sense as to why we re-signed Diem then. It looks like Ijalana will get some experience at RT in the pre-season. It should also be noted that Diem was signed to a 1 year contract, which means Ijalana could be starting next season, if he does not make that transition late in this upcoming season.

Yea i suspected this as well.

[Superman]

Well yes for most things in the NFL there is a counter to it. That is why the coordinators make a pretty good living, to figure things like that out.

I just think it's harder to counter an immovable nose tackle than it is to counter a penetrating three tech masquerading as a nose, particularly in the running game. Which is why big, talented nose tackles are rare in the NFL. We can be effective with Nevis at the position, but it will require extra discipline. That's all I'm saying.

[Coffeedrinker]

I just think it's harder to counter an immovable nose tackle than it is to counter a penetrating three tech masquerading as a nose, particularly in the running game. Which is why big, talented nose tackles are rare in the NFL. We can be effective with Nevis at the position, but it will require extra discipline. That's all I'm saying.

And I would agree with that especially the rare part. IMO those type of DTs may come out in the draft only every two or three years and then they take a while to develop.

[JoKeR]

If he's a natural 3 tech UT then lets keep it that way.

[GoColts8818]

Chap has said it appears to him "Linkenback" is the new Charlie...

I am okay with him playing either tackle spot. He did both last year and did a pretty good job at tackle and a great job if you factor in he was an undrafted free agent rookie. The problem is everyone just remembers the Chargers game because he was under such a microscope in that game and played so poorly at guard.

[CR91]

I am okay with him playing either tackle spot. He did both last year and did a pretty good job at tackle and a great job if you factor in he was an undrafted free agent rookie. The problem is everyone just remembers the Chargers game because he was under such a microscope in that game and played so poorly at guard.

i think that was first time at guard and that was a disaster, but he did pretty good vs the jets in the playoffs at tackle

[GoColts8818]

i think that was first time at guard and that was a disaster, but he did pretty good vs the jets in the playoffs at tackle

He did a great job playing tackle anytime we asked him to last year which he did when Diem and CJ were both hurt during the season. Week three he started vs. the Broncos on the road at left tackle and held up very well. So I think Link is the picture perfect back up tackle he has proven he can play either side of the tackle spots. He just needs to stay away from guard.

[CR91]

He did a great job playing tackle anytime we asked him to last year which he did when Diem and CJ were both hurt during the season. Week three he started vs. the Broncos on the road at left tackle and held up very well. So I think Link is the picture perfect back up tackle he has proven he can play either side of the tackle spots. He just needs to stay away from guard.

i would still like to see constonzo start to see what we have

[John Dee]

Justin Tuck is a five tech hybrid, though. That's what we need Jamal Anderson to be. Raheem Brock at 130%. That's not Nevis at all, especially if we're grooming him to be a nose tackle.

Justin Tuck is what ever he wants to be, he is a poor mans Reggie White. He can and "will" play anywhere the staff wants him to.

Dude is a stud.

[GoColts8818]

i would still like to see constonzo start to see what we have

He will but they aren't going to make the same mistake they did with Ugoh and just had him the job. He's going to have to earn it.

[CR91]

He will but they aren't going to make the same mistake they did with Ugoh and just had him the job. He's going to have to earn it.

should be a good test for him taking on chris long.

[John Dee]

He will but they aren't going to make the same mistake they did with Ugoh and just had him the job. He's going to have to earn it.

I would not be surprised if in the next year or two that Ben I, is the LT and Costanzo moves to RT.

I think the team drafted both with the vision of both playing T, and letting the best prepared play LT.

Nice problem to have.

[CR91]

I would not be surprised if in the next year or two that Ben I, is the LT and Costanzo moves to RT.

I think the team drafted both with the vision of both playing T, and letting the best prepared play LT.

Nice problem to have.

well whatever the case its good to know we have our bookends at tackle

[John Dee]

He will but they aren't going to make the same mistake they did with Ugoh and just had him the job. He's going to have to earn it.

Well pretty much the Colts are handing it to him, it is his to lose.

[John Dee]

well whatever the case its good to know we have our bookends at tackle

I agree, nice to have some top young talent finally on the OL.

[GoColts8818]

Well pretty much the Colts are handing it to him, it is his to lose.

check the depth chart, right now Link is listed as the starter. It doesn't mean Link will be the starter all year but I am sure he's going to do everything he can to hold on to the job.

[John Dee]

check the depth chart, right now Link is listed as the starter. It doesn't mean Link will be the starter all year but I am sure he's going to do everything he can to hold on to the job.

Yessss... I have seen the depth chart....

And if A Costanzo is not the Colts starting LT there will be a lot of disappointment in Colt land. We all know he was drafted to play that spot. And Polian backed up his investment by following it up with Ben I.

One of them will be playing LT.

[doogansquest]

Yessss... I have seen the depth chart....

And if A Costanzo is not the Colts starting LT there will be a lot of disappointment in Colt land. We all know he was drafted to play that spot. And Polian backed up his investment by following it up with Ben I.

One of them will be playing LT.

They were also drafted with the assumption that there would have been more than 2 weeks of training camp. That didn't happen, so they are probably progressing far more slowly than we would have liked.

Still, I think no later than week 4.