What would be fair compensation for Matt Ryan?

[Stephen]

13 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Matt Ryan most likely isn't winning us a championship, but he is the prototypical QB the colts love. A leader who has poise and holds players accountable. He'll run the offense the way it's supposed to go and not play off-script. Matt Ryan can also help groom the next QB we bring in after 2 or 3 years that he might have left.

I think Ryan could win us a championship as long as we provide him with better oline than Atlanta and add a couple weapons. We make the playoffs last year with ryan

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I think Ryan could win us a championship as long as we provide him with better oline than Atlanta and add a couple weapons. We make the playoffs last year with ryan

 

The AFC is stacking up though. The AFC west is scary.

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

The AFC is stacking up though. The AFC west is scary.

Yea but we all know teams that look scary on paper rarely live up to hype

[PRnum1]

[Mitch Connors]

The Falcons give us 2 first round picks...…plus we get Matt Ryan but we have to give them a 2nd round pick in return.

[Hawkeyecolt]

The Colts win 11 or 12 with Ryan last year. He would give the Colts a good chance to win the South.  He’s not going to be a massive cap hit after a trade.  I’d give up no more than the conditional 3rd in 2023 they got for Ryan. Ryan will buy the Colts 2-3 years to find a young QB. Ryan is the leader that Wentz wasn’t. 

[runthepost]

34 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Yea but we all know teams that look scary on paper rarely live up to hype

Except all the teams have top 12 QBs and 2 top 5 QBs

[Archer]

Thanks for posting the topic.  I’ve been at Falcon forums trying to get their fans’ idea of fair compensation.  Couldn’t find any good discussions - their fans think Matt’s being done wrong.  I was thinking that the main value for Atlanta is getting his salary and roster bonus off their books.  Seems we could do it for a 5th or less, given that no one else is taking that salary.  Maybe some kind of  our 5th for their 6th type of deal, especially if we agreed to take some of his dead money in the deal…

[Indeee]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Matt Ryan is not a top 5 QB like Rodgers and Wilson. He's not even top 15

Then why are we even thinking about bringing him here?  Exactly!!

[cdgacoltsfan]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

The Colts win 11 or 12 with Ryan last year. He would give the Colts a good chance to win the South.  He’s not going to be a massive cap hit after a trade.  I’d give up no more than the conditional 3rd in 2023 they got for Ryan. Ryan will buy the Colts 2-3 years to find a young QB. Ryan is the leader that Wentz wasn’t. 

I agree. Ryan makes the most sense and is the best fit for the situation the Colts are currently in. If Watson ever makes up his mind, Ballard needs to get the deal done.

If Watson chooses the Saints, Jimmie G is my second choice if he is still available.

Watson is currently holding a few teams hostage. Saints and Falcons need to give him a shot clock.

[Dingus McGirt]

45 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

The AFC is stacking up though. The AFC west is scary.

They’ll beat each other’s brains out.

[Blueblood23]

55 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Ryan has reached a super bowl before he could get there again with our team

Not a chance that could happen. None,zero, not happening!

[Archer]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Not a chance that could happen. None,zero, not happening!

Y’know, we’re kinda screwed right now.  Seems Irsay made the call to get rid of Wentz, but at this point we have no chance of getting an upgrade over Carson.  We’re just trying to bring in the most serviceable veteran we can without mortgaging our future.  Ryan’s a four-square guy who won’t make mistakes and will possibly mentor Ehlinger and a draft pick.  Like it or not, that might be our best option…

[teganslaw]

I mostly blame Irsay for this situation. From what I've observed, he was against Wentz and had to be talked into signing him. So now Irsay wanted to release Wentz before having a replacement. That makes no sense; you don't release your main QB without a plan. 

 

Maybe they have a plan, but are keeping quiet about it. 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, Hoose said:

I know this is being generally discussed elsewhere but as the Matt Ryan to Colts possibility heats up, I’d like to hear the Board’s specific thoughts on what the Colts should give up to get Ryan in a trade. 
To me, it would seem the Falcons have to move quickly to sign Watson, meaning they have to have a trade for Ryan in place to make the deal work for them. They can’t mess around haggling over compensation or they risk losing Watson to NO. 
So, here are my thoughts:

1. The Colts are one of the few if only QB needy teams that have the cap space to take Ryan and would actually want him. 

2. The Colts have other options, meaning the Falcons don’t have much leverage. 
3. So, IMO, the compensation should be minimal, with perhaps a low draft pick (5?) headed to Atlanta this year with a mid rounder (4?) coming back to the Colts next year. Period. 
I know this return to the Falcons may seem low, but the Colts should be in the catbird’s seat here, and if I’m right, they can low ball Atlanta and get their QB at minimal cost. 
Thoughts?

Make it totally conditional and I would fine with that. He would most likely be here for 2 years as Colts draft his replacement   in 2023

[ColtJax]

If Wentz just made the easy throws and hit the check down once in a blue moon, he'd still be here and we would have made a run in the playoffs. Ryan may be long in the tooth, but he can make the easy throws and can hit the check down. Ryan would be a major upgrade..

[Blueblood23]

12 minutes ago, Archer said:

Y’know, we’re kinda screwed right now.  Seems Irsay made the call to get rid of Wentz, but at this point we have no chance of getting an upgrade over Carson.  We’re just trying to bring in the most serviceable veteran we can without mortgaging our future.  Ryan’s a four-square guy who won’t make mistakes and will possibly mentor Ehlinger and a draft pick.  Like it or not, that might be our best option…

Looks like tanking is on the table. Nothing has been done to improve the team. As of today the team is worse than last years version. Playmakers are going fast and Irsay is keeping his money in his pocket. 

[BlackTiger]

33 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Then why are we even thinking about bringing him here?  Exactly!!

we could say this about anyone that is still available.  we are left with the guys that no one else wants at this point 

[FootballMom]

24 minutes ago, Archer said:

Thanks for posting the topic.  I’ve been at Falcon forums trying to get their fans’ idea of fair compensation.  Couldn’t find any good discussions - their fans think Matt’s being done wrong.  I was thinking that the main value for Atlanta is getting his salary and roster bonus off their books.  Seems we could do it for a 5th or less, given that no one else is taking that salary.  Maybe some kind of  our 5th for their 6th type of deal, especially if we agreed to take some of his dead money in the deal…

Falcons fan here and I came here to tell you about Ryan from a Falcons fan point of view.

The Falcons never gave Ryan the proper OL he needed to be the QB he could be. 1 year in the 14 years he has been here did he had a good OL. That year he was MVP and took us to the SB and if not for our OC with an over inflated ego who decides to pass the ball instead of running it 3 times, we win the game on Matt's arm. The Falcons have consistently had the worse OL in the league, year after year after year. Last year we were ranked 29th overall. 

Matt has been running and ducking for his life. He is not the most nimble QB, but he will give it his all and dive head first for the first down. He is one heck of a competitor! 

He is a good guy. Never any issues with him, not a big ego, a lunch pail worker. I really hope if we lose him, he goes to the Colts and I will be a big fan of the Colts! I know y'all have had a pretty good OL, you got the best center in the NFL, ROLL TIDE.

And for the record, the Falcons organization have done Matt wrong over and over again. I hate to see him go and will always be a fan of him no matter where he goes.

[Archer]

11 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Looks like tanking is on the table. Nothing has been done to improve the team. As of today the team is worse than last years version. Playmakers are going fast and Irsay is keeping his money in his pocket. 

Yeah, this could be the modern version of tanking.  Settle for a QB with no upside for a year, and then be in position to draft a possible franchise QB the next...

[CR91]

43 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Then why are we even thinking about bringing him here?  Exactly!!

 

Because he's the only QB that fits the mold of what we're looking for in a QB and it gives us time to find another QB. 

[Indeee]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Because he's the only QB that fits the mold of what we're looking for in a QB and it gives us time to find another QB. 

Mold shmold. If he, Ryan, cannot bring us a Super Bowl he is not worth his price tag.

 

All things being equal between all the QBs left or even a rookie this year, of one more or less wins, we need to go with an inexpensive option as that will still give us time to draft a replacement and use the funds not spent on other positions of need

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Mold shmold. If he, Ryan, cannot bring us a Super Bowl he is not worth his price tag.

 

All things being equal between all the QBs left or even a rookie this year, of one more or less wins, we need to go with an inexpensive option as that will still give us time to draft a replacement and use the funds not spent on other positions of need

 

No one. I repeat no one is gonna get us a championship from the available QB. Matt Ryan gives us time while still making us competitive. Right now what's important is getting experience for our young guys to understand how to win and get playoff experience. We can win with Matt Ryan. Winston or Mayfield not a chance imo because their no better then Wentz in terms of leadership and/or ball security and pocket awareness.

 

[chad72]

55 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Not a chance that could happen. None,zero, not happening!

 

I don't think he gets us to a SB either. Just like Rivers, he will be good in the 10-15 yard range, provide us a high floor and when he has to thread it down the field 20-25 yards, his declining arm will show up just like Rivers. Unless we know we have a rock solid LT, you can forget about outside the pocket throws on the run or runs for first downs, much like Rivers. 

 

Having said all of that, he will steady the ship like Rivers and be able to execute Frank's offense at a much higher level than anyone else in the FA QB market, IMO. The ceiling is a playoff appearance / division title at best, IMO and then it is a puncher's chance from there. However, that will take us out of the running for drafting most highly coveted QBs in the draft unless Ballard does what he has not done so far in his tenure, pony up picks to move up in the draft in the first round.

[Indeee]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

No one. I repeat no one is gonna get us a championship from the available QB. Matt Ryan gives us time while still making us competitive. Right now what's important is getting experience for our young guys to understand how to win and get playoff experience. We can win with Matt Ryan. Winston or Mayfield not a chance imo because their no better then Wentz in terms of leadership and/or ball security and pocket awareness.

 

We were competitive with Wentz, so if any other QB besides Ryan is as good or better than Wentz then we don't need Ryan to be competitive, so we don't need to waste that money on an aging QB with a bad contract. I'm not sure why 1 or 2 more wins is worth it in this scenario. Other than just saying we made the playoffs, it's not and who really cares about playoffs at this point knowing you won't go very far once, if, we get in

[CR91]

Just now, Indeee said:

We were competitive with Wentz, so if any other QB besides Ryan is as good or better than Wentz then we don't need Ryan to be competitive, so we don't need to waste that money on an aging QB with a bad contract. I'm not sure why 1 or 2 more wins is worth it in this scenario. Other than just saying we made the playoffs, it's not and who really cares about playoffs at this point knowing you won't go very far once, if, we get in

 

One or two more wins means we're in the playoffs next year and it's not a bad contract. It's 23.5 mil this year. How is that bad? We paid Rivers 25 mil for one year.

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

No one. I repeat no one is gonna get us a championship from the available QB. Matt Ryan gives us time while still making us competitive. Right now what's important is getting experience for our young guys to understand how to win and get playoff experience. We can win with Matt Ryan. Winston or Mayfield not a chance imo because their no better then Wentz in terms of leadership and/or ball security and pocket awareness.

 

Who cares about any of this if we are not winning Super Bowls or having a chance to. This stuff matters when evaluating potential long term QBs but not bridge QBs that buy time until you find another one. Come on?

[GoColts8818]

When Favre was traded to the jets he was traded for fourth that could become a third.  I think the Colts third that can become a two they got from Washington next year maybe with a mid this year could get him.

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Who cares about any of this if we are not winning Super Bowls or having a chance to. This stuff matters when evaluating potential long term QBs but not bridge QBs that buy time until you find another one. Come on?

 

You think a QB is magically going to fall in our lap? Newsflash, Andrew Luck is not coming through those doors. We need to do our best to savage a bad situation.

[Indeee]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

You think a QB is magically going to fall in our lap? Newsflash, Andrew Luck is not coming through those doors. We need to do our best to savage a bad situation.

What does any of this even mean? 

 

Listen carefully. If ZERO of the remaining QBs left from the Colts to choose from are going to give this team a legit shot at winning a championship, then who cares which one we sign right? Right. So, with that being said, why would we choose the QB that costs the most if none of them are going to ultimately get this team to where it needs to go?

 

This isn't about making the playoffs. STOP focusing on making the playoffs as you stated earlier. This is about finding a QB to line up behind center for a year or two while we search for a better one. A bridge, nothing more.

 

So, if you are a team knowing this is what having one of these remaining QBs actually gets you, time to find a better one, then again why waste money on that?

 

It's like knowing you are going to be saving up for a Mercedes, knowing that is the car you really want, and your plan is to go out and do whatever it takes to get one, but decide to spend your money on a Porsche instead of a Volkswagon while you are saving up. 

 

You can't understand why this logic is totally stupid and donkey backwards?

[CR91]

Just now, Indeee said:

What does any of this even mean? 

 

Listen carefully. If ZERO of the remaining QBs left from the Colts to choose from are going to give this team a legit shot at winning a championship, then who cares which one we sign right? Right. So, with that being said, why would we choose the QB that costs the most if none of them are going to ultimately get this team to where it needs to go?

 

This isn't about making the playoffs. STOP focusing on making the playoffs as you stated earlier. This is about finding a QB to line up behind center for a year or two while we search for a better one. A bridge, nothing more.

 

So, if you are a team knowing this is what having one of these remaining QBs actually gets you, time to find a better one, then again why waste money on that?

 

It's like knowing you are going to be saving up for a Mercedes, knowing that is the car you really want, and your plan is to go out and do whatever it takes to get one, but decide to spend your money on a Porsche instead of a Volkswagon while you are saving up. 

 

You can't understand why this logic is totally stupid and donkey backwards?

 

You are completely missing the point. It's not about just choosing whatever QB because the end result is the same. It's about fit and what you can do with that QB to have a everlasting effect on the team. You sign Mayfield or Winston and they bomb and Colts moved on. What did you learn? Nothing because it's the same thing a year later and all you're doing is wasting the prime of your best players. Atleast with Matt Ryan, you're getting a player that can direct the ship while you try to find another QB who can learn behind him. 

 

[Shadow_Creek]

4 hours ago, Hoose said:

I know this is being generally discussed elsewhere but as the Matt Ryan to Colts possibility heats up, I’d like to hear the Board’s specific thoughts on what the Colts should give up to get Ryan in a trade. 
To me, it would seem the Falcons have to move quickly to sign Watson, meaning they have to have a trade for Ryan in place to make the deal work for them. They can’t mess around haggling over compensation or they risk losing Watson to NO. 
So, here are my thoughts:

1. The Colts are one of the few if only QB needy teams that have the cap space to take Ryan and would actually want him. 

2. The Colts have other options, meaning the Falcons don’t have much leverage. 
3. So, IMO, the compensation should be minimal, with perhaps a low draft pick (5?) headed to Atlanta this year with a mid rounder (4?) coming back to the Colts next year. Period. 
I know this return to the Falcons may seem low, but the Colts should be in the catbird’s seat here, and if I’m right, they can low ball Atlanta and get their QB at minimal cost. 
Thoughts?

umm were did you read that its heating up? because theres no were that says that

[Indeee]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

You are completely missing the point. It's not about just choosing whatever QB because the end result is the same. It's about fit and what you can do with that QB to have a everlasting effect on the team. You sign Mayfield or Winston and they bomb and Colts moved on. What did you learn? Nothing because it's the same thing a year later and all you're doing is wasting the prime of your best players. Atleast with Matt Ryan, you're getting a player that can direct the ship while you try to find another QB who can learn behind him. 

 

My friend it's you that are missing the point and that is the biggest load of dung I have ever heard. 

 

Yea lets pay more as a thank you to Ryan for directing the ship right into watching the Super bowl from home in February possibly one week later than the other QBs who cost less. 

 

Having Ryan for a year or two is going to leave an everlasting effect on the team in a positive way but none of the other QBs would?  Is that why you're ponying up the extra cash for Ryan? Because everlasting effect costs more? 

 

Seriously, just stop. at this point you are just trying to rationalize a terrible idea and at best looking foolish trying to talk yourself into it.

 

 

 

 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Indeee said:

My friend it's you that are missing the point and that is the biggest load of dung I have ever heard. 

 

Yea lets pay more as a thank you to Ryan for directing the ship right into watching the Super bowl from home in February possibly one week later than the other QBs who cost less. 

 

Having Ryan for a year or two is going to leave an everlasting effect on the team in a positive way but none of the other QBs would?  Is that why you're ponying up the extra cash for Ryan? Because everlasting effect costs more? 

 

Seriously, just stop. at this point you are just trying to rationalize a terrible idea and at best looking foolish trying to talk yourself into it.

 

 

 

 

 

Again how is it that big a difference? Mayfield will cost north of 19 mil. Matt Ryan 23.5 mil. That's 4 mil. Who cares

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, teganslaw said:

I mostly blame Irsay for this situation. From what I've observed, he was against Wentz and had to be talked into signing him. So now Irsay wanted to release Wentz before having a replacement. That makes no sense; you don't release your main QB without a plan. 

 

Maybe they have a plan, but are keeping quiet about it. 

Yep.  Wentz bears no responsibility …

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Mitch Connors said:

The Falcons give us 2 first round picks...…plus we get Matt Ryan but we have to give them a 2nd round pick in return.

If they sign Watson and need to move Ryam, they will not have any first round picks to give up. 

[BlackTiger]

27 minutes ago, Indeee said:

This is about finding a QB to line up behind center for a year or two while we search for a better one. A bridge, nothing more.

Matt Ryan can be that guy though?  they are not going to just tank with sam if they have a chance to get a decent qb

 

if we bring in someone like JG or winston they would get paid too

[TomDiggs]

A couple things to dispel before getting to compensation:

 

1) Everyone keeps talking about the cost of Ryan and his cap hit.....that does NOT apply to the Colts or the team trading for him. Similar to Wentz last year, the acquiring team has a decent contract acquired. The Falcons are the ones eating a bunch of cost due to previous contract restructuring and proration. His contract if we acquired him would be $23.75M in 2022 and $28.00M in 2023. That is it. It is a 2 year, $51.75M deal.

 

2) This idea that Ryan holds onto the ball too long and is a statue and is going to kill us in the pocket in the pass game is a bit misguided. Last year the Falcons had no offensive weapons outside of Pitts and Patterson and Ryan still was decent. He was basically Wentz in terms of sack rate vs expectation and pressure rate vs expectation. That is to say, he is pressured a bit more than is expected but he is also sacked a bit less than expected. See below:

 

 

On this same graph you will see how rough Baker is. He is pressured at an expected rate and yet takes sacks more than any other QB besides two rookies in Z.Wilson and J.Fields. 

 

The only player we have been linked to that is below average (below average being good in this case) in pressure and sack rate is Jimmy G. Matt Ryan has a slightly better pressure rate compared to Jimmy but a much worse sack rate. That said, Jimmy has one of the better lines and the best LT in the game blocking for him and had many more and better offensive weapons to get the ball out quick to.

 

My point is that Ryan is no worse than Wentz and likely would be better with our better lines and weapons (assuming we actually get some more weapons and get a RG/LT). Give Ryan a decent LT and even Reed (if re-signed) or Pinter at RG and I think he's more than OK.

 

Ryan is the perfect bridge QB. Good for the next two years and no long term commitment at his age. We just need to draft our future QB this year or next while we have him.

 

As for compensation, this is all dependent on competition. If we are the only ones chasing Ryan then I think he is a day 3 pick (likely a 4th Rounder that can get conditionally better). 

 

If the Seahawks (as rumored) or Browns or Panthers or anyone else throws their hat in the mix then I could see him costing upwards of a current or future 2nd. He might cost somewhere along the lines of a future 3 that can become a conditional 2 (like we did with Wentz and Washington).

 

I will say this:

 

If before FA began you told me we could swap Wentz for Ryan and we would net an extra 3rd rounder this year and a 5 slot upgrade in round 2, I would have done backflips since their contracts were comparable.

 

That would be what we would have done if we trade a future 3rd that can become a conditional 2nd. 

 

If we trade a day 3 pick then this is even better. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[Indeee]

10 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Again how is it that big a difference? Mayfield will cost north of 19 mil. Matt Ryan 23.5 mil. That's 4 mil. Who cares

Mayfield will be a little less at 18.8 but I'm not really even banging for him right now. I'm just saying that if the outcome is going to be the same, having that ultimate outcome come a little later than sooner should not be worth the extra money at this point with THIS current team. That extra money could get you another player at another important need or go towards Q or whatever. it shouldn't go to a guy who is just another bridge. What should scare every Colts fan is that if it does end up being Ryan, it clearly means that the Colts believe that they can win right now with this current roster, outside of a couple minimal tweaks by adding Ryan. That is scary, because this team can't and neither could most teams. it's why the raiders as example went and got devante. That raider team beat this team last year and made the playoffs. Shouldn't they believe they could win the super bowl with what they had? Using ballard's logic they should feel even more confident that the colts with the team they had. If so, why go get Adams? See my point. God, I hope you do

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Mayfield will be a little less at 18.8 but I'm not really even banging for him right now. I'm just saying that if the outcome is going to be the same, having that ultimate outcome come a little later than sooner should not be worth the extra money at this point with THIS current team. That extra money could get you another player at another important need or go towards Q or whatever. it shouldn't go to a guy who is just another bridge. What should scare every Colts fan is that if it does end up being Ryan, it clearly means that the Colts believe that they can win right now with this current roster, outside of a couple minimal tweaks by adding Ryan. That is scary, because this team can't and neither could most teams. it's why the raiders as example went and got devante. That raider team beat this team last year and made the playoffs. Shouldn't they believe they could win the super bowl with what they had? Using ballard's logic they should feel even more confident that the colts with the team they had. If so, why go get Adams? See my point. God, I hope you do

 

What are you telling the team then if you trade for Mayfield and don't extend his contract? You already have Darius * off on Twitter. You think continuingly going through QB after QB is gonna go well with the guys?