Ballard FA Grievances Thread (Merge)

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Well according to sources they believe he is a perfect fit for Bradley’s system.

I read that as well. You can bet he knows it too.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Well according to sources they believe he is a perfect fit for Bradley’s system.

I would love to get him but here lately when I say I have sources getting someone, it back fires on me it seems. Times have changed. Having said that, my source is through CBS sports talk radio and there have been a few that have said he is coming here. There is a radio host and his name is JR and I called him up before we traded for Matt Ryan and he told me Matt would be a perfect fit here, (like he knew it was going to happen, he is from Atlanta) he told me you want no part of Mayfield, he also agrees with me that Wentz and Tannehill aren't winning you anything.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Sure

- this is @AwesomeAustin

[AwesomeAustin]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

- this is @AwesomeAustin

I don’t get it lol

 

I’m taking the bet even tho I’m going to lose.  I like donating to charity bc I will spend the money on guitar gear or UT Vols gear in that obnoxious orange.  I don’t need anymore of either lol. Plus it’s fun. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I don’t get it lol

 

I’m taking the bet even tho I’m going to lose.  I like donating to charity bc I will spend the money on guitar gear or UT Vols gear in that obnoxious orange.  I don’t need anymore of either lol. Plus it’s fun. 

-  cool, I was actually just joking because you will probably lose the bet but a donation to charity is great. 

[AwesomeAustin]

16 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Sure

Sweet...Thank you!!  Should be fun even tho I’m taking a losing bet lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, AwesomeAustin said:

Sweet...Thank you!!  Should be fun even tho I’m taking a losing bet lol. 

[AwesomeAustin]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Best case scenario is we make the playoffs and then Ballard makes a trade for an additional #1 in top half of the round so we are picking twice. Then we both donate. Yeah it’s a technicality but he should have ironed that out before lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Best case scenario is we make the playoffs and then Ballard makes a trade for an additional #1 in top half of the round so we are picking twice. Then we both donate. Yeah it’s a technicality but he should have ironed that out before lol. 

I have us winning the South as long as our star players stay healthy. Matt Ryan is better than Wentz. We do need another playmaker at WR, help in the secondary, and a LT that is at least average to go deep into the playoffs. Here is the deal though, I seen nobody that picked the Bengals to go to the SB and they almost won it. Hardly nobody picked them to beat Tennessee, I did do that because I know how Tannehill is - I won big money on that game so my love for Burrow is real  

[AwesomeAustin]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have us winning the South as long as our star players stay healthy. Matt Ryan is better than Wentz. We do need another playmaker at WR, help in the secondary, and a LT that is at least average to go deep into the playoffs. Here is the deal though, I seen nobody that picked the Bengals to go to the SB and they almost won it. Hardly nobody picked them to beat Tennessee, I did do that because I know how Tannehill is - I won big money on that game so my love for Burrow is real  

A good friend has been a Bengals fan since he was a kid. I follow the Bengals and he follows the Colts so we can talk football.  I told him a quarter of the season in they were for real and going to win the division and make a run in the playoffs. He was reluctant bc they have been losing for so long.  Didn’t think they would beat the Chiefs again but I had them making the championship game. There was a thread asking people who they wanted to play in the first round and I couldnt believe how many wanted the Bengals. That offense is elite bc Burrow is the real deal....hopefully their OL additions work for them and they can add to that sneaky good defense they the draft. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

Sportscasting.com has an article basically saying how cheap and frugal Ballard is and agents are frustrated in dealing with him  

[Shive]

27 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Sportscasting.com has an article basically saying how cheap and frugal Ballard is and agents are frustrated in dealing with him  

That piece is literally just about Zak Keefer and Stephen Holder's tweets on the subject. It's not some new revelation, just rehashing what our beat reporters have already told us.

[Dark Superman]

I was okay with the bargain-bin Ballard approach the first few seasons of having him as the Colts GM, but it's been six years with zero AFC South Championships and multiple years of not making the playoffs. Indy only made the playoffs in 2020 because the league added a 7th seed.

 

The Colts have a solid team but clearly need to add a few pieces in order to take this team to the next level. You traded for Matt Ryan, so why aren't you going out and surrounding him with weapons? You can't rely on a handful of rookies to take you where you need to go.

 

Chris Ballard being cheap when it comes to signing free agents does bother me to an extent. You have an owner who wants to win now and you're refusing to go out and get proven players who can help you win now. Your coaching staff doesn't have 10 years to develop players.

 

MPJ is the only proven wide receiver on the roster. Parris can't stay healthy. Dulin is a special team's ace but hasn't played much, same with Patmon. They need to get a difference-maker at TE. Cox has been here 4 years and only has 70 catches, 8 TDs, and 930 yards.

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, Shive said:

That piece is literally just about Zak Keefer and Stephen Holder's tweets on the subject. It's not some new revelation, just rehashing what our beat reporters have already told us.

It always annoys me when articles are made about a different writers stuff because it acts like they are providing new information when in all reality it’s just recycling old news

[Zoltan]

9 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Well according to sources they believe he is a perfect fit for Bradley’s system.

He may be a fit in the system but we already have a great player at his best position. We would be better off using money bringing in a couple outside corners instead of an slot corner/box safety. Because Honeybadger isn’t playing outside corner and right now the starters are Rodgers and Facyson

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Sportscasting.com has an article basically saying how cheap and frugal Ballard is and agents are frustrated in dealing with him  

 

I heard something about that on JMV on YouTube. I didn't have much time to listen cause I took my granddaughter to Barrett- Jackson car show/auction here in palm beach. She bought(I paid lol) so much memorabilia  and seen a new orange Corvette and wants it. She already knows how to shift & steer! 

Back to Ballard being frugal, I'll try and listen later.,..but it's nothing we didn't already know. 

[ChuggaBeer]

39 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I heard something about that on JMV on YouTube. I didn't have much time to listen cause I took my granddaughter to Barrett- Jackson car show/auction here in palm beach. She bought(I paid lol) so much memorabilia  and seen a new orange Corvette and wants it. She already knows how to shift & steer! 

Back to Ballard being frugal, I'll try and listen later.,..but it's nothing we didn't already know. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

 

Problem with this is, he doesn't spend enough to get that over the top player. If we got Honey Badger and Landry both, we could make the SB IMO.

[ChuggaBeer]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Problem with this is, he doesn't spend enough to get that over the top player. If we got Honey Badger and Landry both, we could make the SB IMO.

According to Muffy's post/ link.  We have the best offer on the table for HB.    And I really don't think Landry is worth what he thinks he is.     

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

According to Muffy's post/ link.  We have the best offer on the table for HB.    And I really don't think Landry is worth what he thinks he is.     

I am wondering if TY Hilton will be resigned for cheap. Matt needs at least 1 more weapon but I do think Hines is our ace in the hole.

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am wondering if TY Hilton will be resigned for cheap. Matt needs at least 1 more weapon but I do think Hines is our ace in the hole.

If we should miss out on Landry a player to keep an eye on is Emmanuel Sanders.  He is still out there staying in shape and waiting to see if he gets a call.  On GMFB he said it would have to be the right situation on a contending team.  That could be the Colts.  I like him better than TY right now but Irsay might be open to bringing TY back for his final year.  That said I am really hoping Landry realizes he would become an important part of our offense and we are a perfect fit for his skill set.  Getting Landry and Tyrann would be two huge upgrades for Ballard at this stage of FA.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Problem with this is, he doesn't spend enough to get that over the top player. If we got Honey Badger and Landry both, we could make the SB IMO.

This is exactly right. We aren’t talking about over paying for mediocre players. We are talking about adding a player of two that are difference makers.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If we should miss out on Landry a player to keep an eye on is Emmanuel Sanders.  He is still out there staying in shape and waiting to see if he gets a call.  On GMFB he said it would have to be the right situation on a contending team.  That could be the Colts.  I like him better than TY right now but Irsay might be open to bringing TY back for his final year.  That said I am really hoping Landry realizes he would become an important part of our offense and we are a perfect fit for his skill set.  Getting Landry and Tyrann would be two huge upgrades for Ballard at this stage of FA.

From what I heard colts want Landry and TY.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

49 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

According to Muffy's post/ link.  We have the best offer on the table for HB.    And I really don't think Landry is worth what he thinks he is.     

I never said the best offer. I said we had one of the best offers. Meaning we are competitive.

[ChuggaBeer]

19 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I never said the best offer. I said we had one of the best offers. Meaning we are competitive.

Sorry.  Mis quoted 

[Shive]

11 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is exactly right. We aren’t talking about over paying for mediocre players. We are talking about adding a player of two that are difference makers.

The issue is that they are both players that want to be paid for past performance that they will most likely never live up to. That's what Ballard is all about. We'll pay you what we think you'll do for us, not what you did for someone else before and I think that's where most fans get upset with Ballard.

 

Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is a concept used in analytics (especially in baseball, but has been applied to the NFL as well) that attempts to determine the value of a player already on your team with the value of a player that would replace them, and how many additional wins that change could result in. While I think quantifying players is a really hard thing to do, I think it's worth thinking whether or not Landry is significantly better than the player he would be replacing and whether the pay he would require is worth it. The same goes with Honey Badger.

 

I think Ryan as our QB instantly elevates the play of our existing WRs and while Landry has been a really good slot WR, I don't see the value with how much he's asking for, especially with such a stacked draft class. There's value in a veteran presence, but Wayne helps in that regard, and there are still veteran FAs that could fill that role for less than Landry.

 

Mathieu is a bit of a wild card, because he was best playing in the slot in KC and with Kenny Moore there, he doesn't provide an upgrade there. If his performance with KC was more due to how KC was utilizing him and he could play the FS role in Bradley's scheme well, I think he could be worth close to what he's asking for. The question is, are you getting another top tier slot CB or a FS that can play the centerfielder role? That's where it may or may not make sense to pay Mathieu what he's asking.

[Farns01]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:34 PM, Coltsman1788 said:

Jax realizes that they still have their franchise QB on a rookie contract so they spent money to get him key weapons that they wanted him to have. They targeted the receivers they wanted and used their large amount of cap space to SET THE MARKET.  Yes.. the price paid seems ridiculous but it was a price that they could afford to pay that others were not willing to.  Therefore they have their guys Kirk and Zay.  And they still have their high draft picks to add more weapons if they so choose.

 

Meanwhile...teams like the Colts are shocked by the sticker price and resign themselves to play the waiting game in an attempt to see prices come down to a level where they value a player.  Thus because Jax has already set the market...some players that the Colts thought might be available latter at their price may now be out of the price range they feel comfortable paying.  Thus, we end up signing lesser talent.  This is the residual effect of Jax taking initiative in setting the market at a position that is also a need for their much more conservative divisional rival.

 

This year it would have been nice to see the Colts actually try to set the market for a pass rusher like Chandler Jones.  They have the money to get a difference maker at the position but if we continue to always play the waiting game sometimes you miss your opportunity to add a legitimate game changing talent to your team. We have the most cap space in the league.  Improve this team in a way that matters. Enough with these incremental or neglible improvements. One significant early signing at a position of need isn't too much to ask in my opinion.  Especially this off-season where jobs may be on the line.

How dare you to use logic or common sense on the board.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Shive said:

The issue is that they are both players that want to be paid for past performance that they will most likely never live up to. That's what Ballard is all about. We'll pay you what we think you'll do for us, not what you did for someone else before and I think that's where most fans get upset with Ballard.

 

Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is a concept used in analytics (especially in baseball, but has been applied to the NFL as well) that attempts to determine the value of a player already on your team with the value of a player that would replace them, and how many additional wins that change could result in. While I think quantifying players is a really hard thing to do, I think it's worth thinking whether or not Landry is significantly better than the player he would be replacing and whether the pay he would require is worth it. The same goes with Honey Badger.

 

I think Ryan as our QB instantly elevates the play of our existing WRs and while Landry has been a really good slot WR, I don't see the value with how much he's asking for, especially with such a stacked draft class. There's value in a veteran presence, but Wayne helps in that regard, and there are still veteran FAs that could fill that role for less than Landry.

 

Mathieu is a bit of a wild card, because he was best playing in the slot in KC and with Kenny Moore there, he doesn't provide an upgrade there. If his performance with KC was more due to how KC was utilizing him and he could play the FS role in Bradley's scheme well, I think he could be worth close to what he's asking for. The question is, are you getting another top tier slot CB or a FS that can play the centerfielder role? That's where it may or may not make sense to pay Mathieu what he's asking.

Great points and normally I would agree with you but Honey Badger and Landry both are only 29. This is not like an Andre Johnson situation where he was 32 and just was a dud. My cut off on signing someone to a 3 year contract is 30 with the exception of QB because they can play until they are 40 at a high level now days. I still think a player like Landry or Honey Badger could give us 2 good years easily. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Farns01 said:

How dare you to use logic or common sense on the board.

[ChuggaBeer]

47 minutes ago, Shive said:

The issue is that they are both players that want to be paid for past performance that they will most likely never live up to. That's what Ballard is all about. We'll pay you what we think you'll do for us, not what you did for someone else before and I think that's where most fans get upset with Ballard.

 

Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is a concept used in analytics (especially in baseball, but has been applied to the NFL as well) that attempts to determine the value of a player already on your team with the value of a player that would replace them, and how many additional wins that change could result in. While I think quantifying players is a really hard thing to do, I think it's worth thinking whether or not Landry is significantly better than the player he would be replacing and whether the pay he would require is worth it. The same goes with Honey Badger.

 

I think Ryan as our QB instantly elevates the play of our existing WRs and while Landry has been a really good slot WR, I don't see the value with how much he's asking for, especially with such a stacked draft class. There's value in a veteran presence, but Wayne helps in that regard, and there are still veteran FAs that could fill that role for less than Landry.

 

Mathieu is a bit of a wild card, because he was best playing in the slot in KC and with Kenny Moore there, he doesn't provide an upgrade there. If his performance with KC was more due to how KC was utilizing him and he could play the FS role in Bradley's scheme well, I think he could be worth close to what he's asking for. The question is, are you getting another top tier slot CB or a FS that can play the centerfielder role? That's where it may or may not make sense to pay Mathieu what he's asking.

Great post.  But doubt some on this board will actually consider this logic. 

[Shive]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great points and normally I would agree with you but Honey Badger and Landry both are only 29. This is not like an Andre Johnson situation where he was 32 and just was a dud. My cut off on signing someone to a 3 year contract is 30 with the exception of QB because they can play until they are 40 at a high level now days. I still think a player like Landry or Honey Badger could give us 2 good years easily. 

I'm not saying they're over the hill and can't play at a pretty high level, but neither are in their prime either. I don't think it would be like the Andre Johnson situation, because they're different types of WRs and I think Landry's playstyle will still be effective as he gets older, whereas Johnson was much more athletically gifted and significantly declined as soon as he slowed down a bit.

 

The question for me isn't whether or not I think Landry could play well, it's whether Landry or Mathieu are worth what they think they're worth. The FA WR market got absolutely distorted by the Kirk deal, so FA WRs think they should be paid accordingly, but have almost zero leverage with the level of talent in this draft class that are largely pro-ready. Let's assign some arbitrary values in Landry's case. Let's say on ability standpoint, Landry is an 80 out of 100 and the guy we get from the draft is a 75 out of 100 on day one. Obviously Landry offers the higher level of talent right now, but considering a WR taken with our 2nd round pick would count about $1.6M towards the cap, is the $20M/yr he's looking for worth the difference? I don't think that it is.

 

I think Mathieu will play at a high level, but does his fit in our defense really provide a jump in production? Again, if he's not playing in the slot where he was at his best last season with KC, because we have Kenny Moore there, can he flourish in the centerfield FS role? If he can, he's worth it. If he just gives us modest ability at FS and just bolsters slot CB, for us he's not worth what he's asking.

 

1 hour ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Great post.  But doubt some on this board will actually consider this logic. 

Thanks and agreed.

[aReggie7]

17 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

I was okay with the bargain-bin Ballard approach the first few seasons of having him as the Colts GM, but it's been six years with zero AFC South Championships and multiple years of not making the playoffs. Indy only made the playoffs in 2020 because the league added a 7th seed.

 

The Colts have a solid team but clearly need to add a few pieces in order to take this team to the next level. You traded for Matt Ryan, so why aren't you going out and surrounding him with weapons? You can't rely on a handful of rookies to take you where you need to go.

 

Chris Ballard being cheap when it comes to signing free agents does bother me to an extent. You have an owner who wants to win now and you're refusing to go out and get proven players who can help you win now. Your coaching staff doesn't have 10 years to develop players.

 

MPJ is the only proven wide receiver on the roster. Parris can't stay healthy. Dulin is a special team's ace but hasn't played much, same with Patmon. They need to get a difference-maker at TE. Cox has been here 4 years and only has 70 catches, 8 TDs, and 930 yards.

 

Yeah, I haven't been too upset about how Ballard has approached free agency in the past. The big name guys always get talked about and those are usually the guys that turn out to be bad signings. (Le'Veon Bell, Tyrell Williams, etc) I also felt that Ballard was more aggressive than he was given credit for his first few years. He didn't go all in on free agency but he signed a player or two each year that made an impact.

 

Last year the only way the Colts used free agency to improve the team was offensive line depth. Outside of that it was signing EF to replace AC. I was ok with it then because they had all these young players, particularly on defense, and you want to see what they can do. 

 

This year the approach has bothered me. Individually not signing Fisher, Reed, or Glo doesn't bother me but losing all three and not doing any other signings is bothersome. 1 year after making a very concentrated effort to improve the o-line depth it is worse. Pinter can step up and I think the coaching staff does like Will Fries but even with those two I think o-line depth is a concern.

 

I think the way to acquire another high-end pass catcher (WR or TE) is early this draft so I hope that's the direction the Colts go there. I was expecting some sort of veteran WR to be brought in though. Regardless of the RBs there should be at least one more veteran pass catcher here.

 

CB and S was a concern going into this offseason. CB in terms of depth and S in terms of Blackmon's injury and overall depth. Perhaps they are no worse now than they were at the start of March but it certainly hasn't gotten better.

 

To me the disappointing thing is to see this free agency period go by and not be able to point to a single area where the Colts utilized it to get better. 

 

The Colts absolutely improved at QB and DE with those trades so they are better at the two most important positions. Free agency is one of the tools teams have to improve and the Colts haven't utilized that tool this year.

 

The Colts are a young team but injuries can pile up quickly and the best years of guys careers can be behind them before you know it. JT was amazing last year but go look at RBs who had similar seasons...that's usually over by the time they turn 25.

 

I don't understand how the Colts let this free agency period go by and not utilize it in some capacity to improve the team. You don't have a bunch of draft capital nor a bunch of 1st and 2nd year players waiting. At this point I think we largely know what we have in the young guys.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t need Ballard to over pay for FA. But paying a difference maker of two in FA market value that will make this team better should could at least be done. You can’t find everything in the draft. No we aren’t going to find difference makers when players get cut from other teams. You have to find them them from FA up until the draft. After that point your not finding any. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Great post.  But doubt some on this board will actually consider this logic. 

 

The logic is if you need some above average players, especially in positions of need and even more especially premium positions and some other team outbids you, you fail to elevate your team to the level of other teams and risk division titles and even wildcard spots.....and then you become average and irrelevant because of not spending a few million dollars here and there. 

[ChuggaBeer]

14 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

The logic is if you need some above average players, especially in positions of need and even more especially premium positions and some other team outbids you, you fail to elevate your team to the level of other teams and risk division titles and even wildcard spots.....and then you become average and irrelevant because of not spending a few million dollars here and there. 

Or the FO doesn't value certain players the way fans do.   I am not positive but I think LT is already on the team.  Honey Badgers best position is what Kenny Moore plays and was graded lower than Kenny so he would have to play another position, which he is not as good at.  So how much of an upgrade will he really be?   Ballard has offers out for HB but probably not for the price he thinks he deserves at the slot CB  Probably a safety at a lower rate Because again he is good but not as good there. 

 

Landry wants #1 receiver money and is not a #1 receiver.  He wouldn't even be the #1 receiver on the Colts.   So do you pay a #2 receiver WR1 money?  I wouldn't.  He's not that good And a reason he's still available and just fired his agent. LOL 

 

Vet WR.   Does everyone want one because of leadership?  If so sign TY. and don't forget we now have Reggie who will fill a big part of the leadership and mentor roles.

 

The few million you talk about is fine IF you are getting a lot more out of a player than what you already have.  If not. It's wasting money.

 

I think we have WR's already on this team that will elevate   Plus I think they will add in the draft.  Matt Ryan alone will make the receivers better 

 

Who else?     

 

Price vs value.   Same as shopping for anything. 

 

 

[Orioles22]

The logic is it's time to be more aggressive and get some players who can help us win division and league titles.
We can be the team that is the most wise with money, or we can try to make smart moves but still try to win and err on the side of being aggressive if we're truly "all in" at this point.

[AwesomeAustin]

20 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

I was okay with the bargain-bin Ballard approach the first few seasons of having him as the Colts GM, but it's been six years with zero AFC South Championships and multiple years of not making the playoffs. Indy only made the playoffs in 2020 because the league added a 7th seed.

 

The Colts have a solid team but clearly need to add a few pieces in order to take this team to the next level. You traded for Matt Ryan, so why aren't you going out and surrounding him with weapons? You can't rely on a handful of rookies to take you where you need to go.

 

Chris Ballard being cheap when it comes to signing free agents does bother me to an extent. You have an owner who wants to win now and you're refusing to go out and get proven players who can help you win now. Your coaching staff doesn't have 10 years to develop players.

 

MPJ is the only proven wide receiver on the roster. Parris can't stay healthy. Dulin is a special team's ace but hasn't played much, same with Patmon. They need to get a difference-maker at TE. Cox has been here 4 years and only has 70 catches, 8 TDs, and 930 yards.

With Ryan at QB, what production do see from the TEs, Dulin and Patmon?  I see 1600 yds and 12tds. 

[richard pallo]

26 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Or the FO doesn't value certain players the way fans do.   I am not positive but I think LT is already on the team.  Honey Badgers best position is what Kenny Moore plays and was graded lower than Kenny so he would have to play another position, which he is not as good at.  So how much of an upgrade will he really be?   Ballard has offers out for HB but probably not for the price he thinks he deserves at the slot CB  Probably a safety at a lower rate Because again he is good but not as good there. 

 

Landry wants #1 receiver money and is not a #1 receiver.  He wouldn't even be the #1 receiver on the Colts.   So do you pay a #2 receiver WR1 money?  I wouldn't.  He's not that good And a reason he's still available and just fired his agent. LOL 

 

Vet WR.   Does everyone want one because of leadership?  If so sign TY. and don't forget we now have Reggie who will fill a big part of the leadership and mentor roles.

 

The few million you talk about is fine IF you are getting a lot more out of a player than what you already have.  If not. It's wasting money.

 

I think we have WR's already on this team that will elevate   Plus I think they will add in the draft.  Matt Ryan alone will make the receivers better 

 

Who else?     

 

Price vs value.   Same as shopping for anything. 

 

 

The fact that they have offers out there tells you they see them as added value to the team.  Just because you don’t think Landry is any good means nothing.  They obviously do or they wouldn’t be pursuing him.  He’s out there because the Browns added a very good receiver and they decided they couldn’t afford both.  It’s called allocation of resources.  Putting money to use elsewhere.  You have no idea what their plans are for Tyrann.  What we do know is they want to sign him.  We will find out what there plans are for him and Moore when they sign him.  Tyrann and Landry are difference makers.   Our current safeties , corners and receivers are not. Pretty easy to see why we are pursuing these two players.

[throwing BBZ]

4 hours ago, Shive said:

I'm not saying they're over the hill and can't play at a pretty high level, but neither are in their prime either. I don't think it would be like the Andre Johnson situation, because they're different types of WRs and I think Landry's playstyle will still be effective as he gets older, whereas Johnson was much more athletically gifted and significantly declined as soon as he slowed down a bit.

 

The question for me isn't whether or not I think Landry could play well, it's whether Landry or Mathieu are worth what they think they're worth. The FA WR market got absolutely distorted by the Kirk deal, so FA WRs think they should be paid accordingly, but have almost zero leverage with the level of talent in this draft class that are largely pro-ready. Let's assign some arbitrary values in Landry's case. Let's say on ability standpoint, Landry is an 80 out of 100 and the guy we get from the draft is a 75 out of 100 on day one. Obviously Landry offers the higher level of talent right now, but considering a WR taken with our 2nd round pick would count about $1.6M towards the cap, is the $20M/yr he's looking for worth the difference? I don't think that it is.

 

I think Mathieu will play at a high level, but does his fit in our defense really provide a jump in production? Again, if he's not playing in the slot where he was at his best last season with KC, because we have Kenny Moore there, can he flourish in the centerfield FS role? If he can, he's worth it. If he just gives us modest ability at FS and just bolsters slot CB, for us he's not worth what he's asking.

 

Thanks and agreed.

 

  PFF, for what it's worth graded Mathieu 67
 Stephon Gilmore 77
  So if Ballard decides to offer one a deal... say $12M
   which one would you folks want?
   TM does have a history of always being available.

    Gilmore less so.
     I would go for Gilmore.

[ChuggaBeer]

54 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The fact that they have offers out there tells you they see them as added value to the team.  1. Just because you don’t think Landry is any good means nothing.  They obviously do or they wouldn’t be pursuing him.  He’s out there because the Browns added a very good receiver and they decided they couldn’t afford both.  2. It’s called allocation of resources.  Putting money to use elsewhere. 3.  You have no idea what their plans are for Tyrann.  5. What we do know is they want to sign him.  We will find out what there plans are for him and Moore when they sign him. 4. Tyrann and Landry are difference makers.   Our current safeties , corners and receivers are not. Pretty easy to see why we are pursuing these two players.

1.  I said he is not that good as a WR1 and that is the price he wants WR1

2. Which is what Ballard is doing with the Colts

3. Neither do you

4. They are difference makers as a #2 receiver (we already have that in Pitt) and a slot corner  (we already have that in Moore)

5.  Out of order but anyway.    Yes they want them but maybe not in the role they expect so the asking price is different than what Ballard wants to pay.

 

I am not un board for HB to replace Moore. No freakin way!!!!! As a safety at a lesser pay sure.

 

I am not on board for Landry to be a replacement #2 over Pitt.  No freakin way.  We still would need a WR1 as a WR2b or WR3 sure.  But not at 20m a yr. 

 

Their price needs to be what their value is to the Colts.   

 

Glad some of you are not in charge of my bank account. LOL