Russell Wilson trade to Broncos, pending his approval

[waterdog]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

This trade is driven more by the fact that the Chiefs, Chargers and Raiders all have QBs that are capable of taking that team to the playoffs and the Broncos, despite having the talent at other positions, did not have the QB to make plays which is a must in their division. I would hate to be in that division.

 

On an unrelated note, Vic Fangio hinted several times that QB play is what is hamstringing the Broncos and he was made a scapegoat, probably because of his loyalty to his OC, much like Mora's loyalty to Fangio cost him his job here in Indy.

A Seahawk fan yesterday appraised Lock's value as 'zero' but the radio host(Gottlieb) disagreed.

George Paton, last week, listed QBs' most important attributes: '1. toughness, 2. accuracy without mentioning Lock.

Paton could have mentioned Bridgewater's 2 tackling attempts(Sorenson INT, Slay fumble recovery) regarding 1.(above) and, I think, Teddy was George's choice(and, I guess, Fangio's and Shurmurs')

Lock's 2022 $0.75 wasn't a $ irritation, so doesn't this mean John Schneider actually thinks Lock could be worth more than 'zero'?

 

[chad72]

 

 

[Colt.45]

16 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

 

Picks are overrated - John Elway (assisted by Les Snead)

[NFLfan]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:24 AM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 This is along the lines of the Herschel Walker trade.
Draft and develop well and Seattle can be at the top of the division in a few years. lol

 

That was my first thought exactly! I love Russ but I would not approve giving up so much for him. 

 

I wish I could get 25% of that for Kirk Cousins. 

[NFLfan]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:14 AM, DougDew said:

Maybe I see it differently than most, but I don't think that winning a Super Bowl is more important than having a competitive team for many years.  The thought of being able to win a SB each year if the team peaks at the right time is a much more enjoyable way of watching football than buying a SB....especially if all of that mortgaging of the future ends up getting a loss in the championship game or even the SB.  What a let down that would be.

 

Bad trade for Denver.  Great trade for SEA.

 

I actually agree with you (I rarely do. ) 

 

Do you feel the same about the Rams' mortgaging the future? 

[NFLfan]

@Colt .45 You like Cousins?

[Colt.45]

15 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

@Colt .45 You like Cousins?

Hard pass lol.

If the Colts pick up Carr, I'd expect an outcome similar to what's gone down with the Vikes and Cousins. Good but not the one to carry you to the promised land

[NFLfan]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

Hard pass lol.

If the Colts pick up Carr, I'd expect an outcome similar to what's gone down with the Vikes and Cousins. Good but not the one to carry you to the promised land

 

Who do you want? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who do you want? 

I have  ask the same the same question to at least 7 or 8 people now when I say I want Carr or Jimmy G and they don't answer me. They just tell me they don't want either, I guess they want this guy - and want to stink but then again I would take him over Sam  

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Who do you want? 

You will get no answer, even @Superman didn't answer my question, he just said we can't win with Jimmy G. If that is the case then we aren't winning with anyone in 2022 in reality. 

[Superman]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You will get no answer, even @Superman didn't answer my question, he just said we can't win with Jimmy G. If that is the case then we aren't winning with anyone in 2022 in reality. 

 

Don't know when you asked me that, but I want to be clear. A guy being the best available in this year's market, as of right now, means very little. There should be a very high threshold for a guy that we spend significant resources on. I don't think anyone is available this year that meets that high threshold. 

 

So simply put, based on who's available right now, I am not interested in any of them. Get a mediocre guy for cheap in 2022, and wait for a better prospect in 2023. If the staff loves a guy in this year's draft, they should go get him. I don't really see that guy this year. If they want to use a mid round pick on Jordan Love, fine. I don't expect a lot from him, and if he's not really good for us in 2022, we need to move on right away. Same thing for Minshew, Mariota, Trubisky, whatever. No major resources on any of them, and understand that it's superstar or bust in 2022, because we need to be set at QB going into 2023, or we need to be drafting our potential franchise guy in 2023. 

 

So insert whatever name you want. As long as they're healthy right now, they don't cost a lot in draft or cap resources, and the strategy is clear and obvious to all. Either way I don't expect to feel optimistic about our QB this season. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Don't know when you asked me that, but I want to be clear. A guy being the best available in this year's market, as of right now, means very little. There should be a very high threshold for a guy that we spend significant resources on. I don't think anyone is available this year that meets that high threshold. 

 

So simply put, based on who's available right now, I am not interested in any of them. Get a mediocre guy for cheap in 2022, and wait for a better prospect in 2023. If the staff loves a guy in this year's draft, they should go get him. I don't really see that guy this year. If they want to use a mid round pick on Jordan Love, fine. I don't expect a lot from him, and if he's not really good for us in 2022, we need to move on right away. Same thing for Minshew, Mariota, Trubisky, whatever. No major resources on any of them, and understand that it's superstar or bust in 2022, because we need to be set at QB going into 2023, or we need to be drafting our potential franchise guy in 2023. 

 

So insert whatever name you want. As long as they're healthy right now, they don't cost a lot in draft or cap resources, and the strategy is clear and obvious to all. Either way I don't expect to feel optimistic about our QB this season. 

Thanks for the response. It was when I said we weren't winning with Mariota or Mitch and asked what your plan was. You just responded by saying we won't with Jimmy. I see your plan now. I still think we can win the division with Jimmy as long as we add another wr and a LT that doesn't stink. Winning a sb is a different story but winning a sb is a crap shoot even though that is the goal. Mahomes even has lost the last 2 years and look at Rodgers. I at least want to be relevant and put a good product on the field. I don't like this year's qb class and Mariota or Mitch is not up an upgrade from Wentz. I would like carr but I am not sure if that will even be possible. They are going to want a lot. 49ers want to get rid of Jimmy because lance is there sitting on the bench as a 3rd pick. We may be able to get Jimmy for very little. The shoulder surgery doesn't bother me by what the doctors are saying. He should be fine 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thanks for the response. It was when I said we weren't winning with Mariota or Mitch and asked what your plan was. You just responded by saying we won't with Jimmy. I see your plan now. I still think we can win the division with Jimmy as long as we add another wr and a LT that doesn't stink. Winning a sb is a different story but winning a sb is a crap shoot even though that is the goal. Mahomes even has lost the last 2 years and look at Rodgers. I at least want to be relevant and put a good product on the field. I don't like this year's qb class and Mariota or Mitch is not up an upgrade from Wentz. I would like carr but I am not sure if that will even be possible. They are going to want a lot. 49ers want to get rid of Jimmy because lance is there sitting on the bench as a 3rd pick. We may be able to get Jimmy for very little. The shoulder surgery doesn't bother me by what the doctors are saying. He should be fine 

 

I wouldn't expect to win the division with JG, like I said, I don't think he's good enough, and I think his price will be far too high for his expected level of performance.

 

You're also far more optimistic about his shoulder recovery than I am, and I don't think there's any reason for optimism based on what little we know. We don't even know what his injury was -- was it the rotator cuff, the labrum, is it a slap tear, bursitis, was muscle involved, etc.? Reports that his surgery went fine don't mean anything; they say this about every player who has surgery. I wouldn't touch him until I know he can still play, period. Until then, he's a non starter for me. It's kind of shocking to me to see a Colts fan be so cavalier about a shoulder injury to a QB after 2017.

 

To the bolded, you're still looking for an upgrade from Wentz. I think that ship has sailed, and I doubt it's what the staff has their eye on right now (unless they're going to move up in the draft this year). I've been saying for two months, you have to separate the decision regarding Wentz from the decision related to the next QB. They decided not to spend any more time or money on him, even though they don't have a clear path to the next guy. 

 

So they said 'no, we're not paying him $28m,' and 'yes, we'll salvage whatever draft capital we can right now,' and 'we'll work on finding a franchise QB, but we're not getting one of the big name guys available this year.' So that means no upgrade. It's clear to me that it also means no treading water, either; otherwise, just keep Wentz.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I wouldn't expect to win the division with JG, like I said, I don't think he's good enough, and I think his price will be far too high for his expected level of performance.

 

You're also far more optimistic about his shoulder recovery than I am, and I don't think there's any reason for optimism based on what little we know. We don't even know what his injury was -- was it the rotator cuff, the labrum, is it a slap tear, bursitis, was muscle involved, etc.? Reports that his surgery went fine don't mean anything; they say this about every player who has surgery. I wouldn't touch him until I know he can still play, period. Until then, he's a non starter for me. It's kind of shocking to me to see a Colts fan be so cavalier about a shoulder injury to a QB after 2017.

 

To the bolded, you're still looking for an upgrade from Wentz. I think that ship has sailed, and I doubt it's what the staff has their eye on right now (unless they're going to move up in the draft this year). I've been saying for two months, you have to separate the decision regarding Wentz from the decision related to the next QB. They decided not to spend any more time or money on him, even though they don't have a clear path to the next guy. 

 

So they said 'no, we're not paying him $28m,' and 'yes, we'll salvage whatever draft capital we can right now,' and 'we'll work on finding a franchise QB, but we're not getting one of the big name guys available this year.' So that means no upgrade. It's clear to me that it also means no treading water, either; otherwise, just keep Wentz.

Of course you never know how a person is doing after shoulder surgery but he had it early and I am just going by what I have read doctors have said. I simply just refuse to believe we won't get an upgrade over Wentz. Wasting away another year of Taylor's career just makes no sense to me. I would hope Ballard sees this. It will be interesting to see what we do. We do have a lot of money now. Matt Ryan for 2 years would be an idea. Just rumors but I have been hearing cousins as well. I do think we could win the division with Jimmy. We just need a better LT and another WR. We have the cash.

[2006Coltsbestever]

52 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I wouldn't expect to win the division with JG, like I said, I don't think he's good enough, and I think his price will be far too high for his expected level of performance.

 

You're also far more optimistic about his shoulder recovery than I am, and I don't think there's any reason for optimism based on what little we know. We don't even know what his injury was -- was it the rotator cuff, the labrum, is it a slap tear, bursitis, was muscle involved, etc.? Reports that his surgery went fine don't mean anything; they say this about every player who has surgery. I wouldn't touch him until I know he can still play, period. Until then, he's a non starter for me. It's kind of shocking to me to see a Colts fan be so cavalier about a shoulder injury to a QB after 2017.

 

To the bolded, you're still looking for an upgrade from Wentz. I think that ship has sailed, and I doubt it's what the staff has their eye on right now (unless they're going to move up in the draft this year). I've been saying for two months, you have to separate the decision regarding Wentz from the decision related to the next QB. They decided not to spend any more time or money on him, even though they don't have a clear path to the next guy. 

 

So they said 'no, we're not paying him $28m,' and 'yes, we'll salvage whatever draft capital we can right now,' and 'we'll work on finding a franchise QB, but we're not getting one of the big name guys available this year.' So that means no upgrade. It's clear to me that it also means no treading water, either; otherwise, just keep Wentz.

I will also respond with this. Then basically we might as well tank because I can almost assure you that we are not winning the division with Mariota or Mitch or Sam or a rookie qb. I just can't see us wasting a year away and people being ok with it. I have patience but damn who knows how long Taylor can be great. Maybe 3 or 4 years. Rbs don't normally last long. Henry is already showing signs of being banged up. Unless you are Emmitt or Walter good luck.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Winning the division is the 1st step because once you do that you get a home game. From there any thing can happen in the playoffs. Look at the run Cincinnati just had. Nobody seen that coming. I will leave with this, Jimmy is better than Mariota or Mitch or a rookie qb in a weak draft class. I think we win the division with him, he's better than Tannehill imo.

[groundnpound]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:21 PM, chad72 said:

 

 

Imagine if Grigson traded the Luck pick and drafted Wilson later?

[2006Coltsbestever]

40 minutes ago, groundnpound said:

Imagine if Grigson traded the Luck pick and drafted Wilson later?

In life you just never know how things will work out. That is why I always say most things are a crap shoot. Who would've thought Cincy would go to the SB? Mahomes losing 2 years in a row with that offense. JImmy G and SF going into GB and winning as well. You don't need an elite QB to win but you need at least a good one = a Stafford, a Jimmy G, or Burrow to compete. Elite QB's that lost this past year = Mahomes, Rodgers, and Allen.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Of course you never know how a person is doing after shoulder surgery but he had it early and I am just going by what I have read doctors have said. I simply just refuse to believe we won't get an upgrade over Wentz. Wasting away another year of Taylor's career just makes no sense to me. I would hope Ballard sees this. It will be interesting to see what we do. We do have a lot of money now. Matt Ryan for 2 years would be an idea. Just rumors but I have been hearing cousins as well. I do think we could win the division with Jimmy. We just need a better LT and another WR. We have the cash.

 

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will also respond with this. Then basically we might as well tank because I can almost assure you that we are not winning the division with Mariota or Mitch or Sam or a rookie qb. I just can't see us wasting a year away and people being ok with it. I have patience but damn who knows how long Taylor can be great. Maybe 3 or 4 years. Rbs don't normally last long. Henry is already showing signs of being banged up. Unless you are Emmitt or Walter good luck.

 

I totally get that. I was an advocate of keeping Wentz this year and trying to make a push, because I don't like watching hopeless QBing. 

 

But if they weren't willing to run it back with Wentz -- who was not terrible, he has rapport with Reich, and keeping him would have brought some stability to the team after four years of the QB carousel -- it stands to reason that they are not interesting in spending significant resources on another version of a 'not good enough' QB. It seems apparent that they're looking to chart a path to a guy they can build around for the foreseeable future.

 

They tried the glue guy, fighter's chance, big on heart but not big on skill QB with Brissett, mostly out of necessity. They quickly turned the page. They tried the older vet, it lasted one year and was a good experience, but it also showed a) the limitations of an older QB, and b) the lack of permanence with an older guy (also, Matt Ryan is restructuring his contract, so the Falcons aren't trading him). They tried the reclamation project, that didn't go so well. 

 

You have a problem with what's basically gonna be a gap year. I think the decision makers have a problem with not having a guy they can build around for the foreseeable future, because without finding that guy, our ceiling is capped. Basically we'll get the occasional division title, maybe win a playoff game, but that's not what anyone signed up for. And while you have a problem with a one year set back, the fan base in general has a problem with the fact that we have two division titles since 2010, none since 2014, we haven't made any noise in the playoffs, and the last three years have shown that even a solid roster isn't going anywhere if you don't get the QB situation right.

 

I don't know for sure what they're going to do. But I personally don't think JG is a good option. He costs too much, his shoulder is a problem, and most importantly, I don't think he's good enough. The bar needs to be higher. I don't want them to settle for JG, I'd rather deal with the ugliness in 2022, if that's what it takes. Not advocating tanking, but I don't think we should spend serious resources on anyone who doesn't meet the very high standard we need to be placing on the QB position.

[2006Coltsbestever]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

I totally get that. I was an advocate of keeping Wentz this year and trying to make a push, because I don't like watching hopeless QBing. 

 

But if they weren't willing to run it back with Wentz -- who was not terrible, he has rapport with Reich, and keeping him would have brought some stability to the team after four years of the QB carousel -- it stands to reason that they are not interesting in spending significant resources on another version of a 'not good enough' QB. It seems apparent that they're looking to chart a path to a guy they can build around for the foreseeable future.

 

They tried the glue guy, fighter's chance, big on heart but not big on skill QB with Brissett, mostly out of necessity. They quickly turned the page. They tried the older vet, it lasted one year and was a good experience, but it also showed a) the limitations of an older QB, and b) the lack of permanence with an older guy (also, Matt Ryan is restructuring his contract, so the Falcons aren't trading him). They tried the reclamation project, that didn't go so well. 

 

You have a problem with what's basically gonna be a gap year. I think the decision makers have a problem with not having a guy they can build around for the foreseeable future, because without finding that guy, our ceiling is capped. Basically we'll get the occasional division title, maybe win a playoff game, but that's not what anyone signed up for. And while you have a problem with a one year set back, the fan base in general has a problem with the fact that we have two division titles since 2010, none since 2014, we haven't made any noise in the playoffs, and the last three years have shown that even a solid roster isn't going anywhere if you don't get the QB situation right.

 

I don't know for sure what they're going to do. But I personally don't think JG is a good option. He costs too much, his shoulder is a problem, and most importantly, I don't think he's good enough. The bar needs to be higher. I don't want them to settle for JG, I'd rather deal with the ugliness in 2022, if that's what it takes. Not advocating tanking, but I don't think we should spend serious resources on anyone who doesn't meet the very high standard we need to be placing on the QB position.

2022 may be ugly if we don't get Carr or Jimmy G or even Matt Ryan. I just don't like wasting another year of Taylor's career is why I preach getting at least a good QB to have a chance. Wentz wasn't bad but like a Tannehill we could see the writing on the wall. I have seen Jimmy G go to a SB and have KC down, he and the 49ers really should've beat the Rams. The 49ers dropped a sure INT that would've sealed the game and I think they would've beat Cincy as well.