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Strong or Corral


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8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Im sure he is.   
 

But here’s the thing about simulations.   They’re terrible up until about mid-April, two weeks before the draft.   That’s when most everyone has done their final rankings.  
 

So until then…. They’re fun and addictive, but mostly worthless.  

Yea. I am actually trying to learn a little about possible prospects and figured I'd do this to see who is in the range of our picks and read about them.   You are correct it is going to change and on top of that they don't even have write ups on a lot of players after the 3rd round.    Another reason I can't play in the draft game.   Besides I don't anything about any other teams needs and depth.  HA. I am such a homer  LOL

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On 2/25/2022 at 1:26 PM, Dr. T said:

Carson Strong is not unlike another Carson that we know: both like to play hero ball rather than listen to coaching. This was evident during the practices for the Senior Bowl, where he wanted to stand out and go for the long ball instead of the check down. He also had extensive surgery done on one of his knees and must be cleared medically in that regard.

Fair point on Strong at the Senior Bowl but he admitted as much later and said he was nervous and wanted to stand out. He knows he goofed and in that sense i don't see a personality like Wentz's.

The actual tape shows a guy who will check the ball down all day if that's what the defense gives him so I think he's far ahead of our own Carson in that regard. Sure he likes the bombs down field but he's also smart enough to understand what the overall strategy is employed by a defense which our guy just never gets or forgets in the heat of the moment. So i don't see Strong as a hero ball guy at all. 

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On 3/2/2022 at 7:18 PM, NewColtsFan said:


Strong is said to have a very bad knee.   His medicals are said to be hugely important for everyone.   May make the difference in him being a Day 2 guy, or a Day 3 guy.

 

Personally, I don’t want us to take a QB this year.   Any quarterback.   Whoever we’d take won’t play.   Won’t contribute.   We need our draft picks to contribute as much as possible.   

If we’re in win now mode, then using a Day 2 pick on a QB goes against that plan. 
 

JMO. 

I hear you but I think it'd be irresponsible not to take a QB. QB scouting is an imprecise thing, more art than science otherwise you wouldn't have so many misses at the position, which means as a scouting group of a team that needs a QB, you have to get your craft as good as possible internally i.e. know exactly what you want from a QB, know what his strengths are, know what his weaknesses are, and know what your coaches are good at teaching. Externally your strategy has to be one where you keep QBs high on your board and in mind and keep drafting till you get it right. You can't afford to sit a year out because the class may be bad. You don't know that, it's an imprecise task.

 

So with that in mind, you look at the class and see what value each fellow is, and you absolutely go for your guy when the time comes. Think of how they went and got JT. Same thing. Might be late 1st or 2nd or even 3rd but you go for the guy. You never truly know what you're getting but you go for it.

 

All the top 6/7 guys in this class wouldn't be 1st rounders last year, and maybe not have an immediate starter in the entire class. Cool. However as a GM, this is where your scouts have to be able to project growth down the line i.e. if a guy has shown that he can be a franchise guy down the line or with certain identified traits corrected, you go for it. Not every year gives you a Luck or a Herbert but there are Russell's and Dak's available if they get in the right circumstance, I think this year has guys like that. Guys like Mac Jones who if they get under the right situation and there's some patience, they can at the minimum not be deficits to your team, and can get to grow. That's the path Tom Brady took....not saying there's a Brady here but not saying there isnt one either. I have few guys in mind who i think would do very well in Indy because I think we have an environment that can grow a guy if he is determined to grow ;) 

 

TL:DR This class doesn't have anyone who is a Luck or a Herbert or a guy who will come in and be a star from day 1 but it has guys who have traits that in the right circumstance can mean greatness when it's all over. I think there're 2 or 3 guys like that in this class, maybe even 4. But i think it's all contingent on them going to the perfect situation and i think that situation will mean a team that looks to them to start midway through the season or next season. Anyone looking for a day 1 starter in this class is probably going to be disappointed or is miscalculating but even then with those 2 to 4 guys i mentioned, if one of them blew up day 1 in the right place, i wouldn't be surprised.

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Just now, Hawkeyecolt said:

There’s a few good ones to listen too. 
 

A Colts Podcast

Locked on Colts

The Blue Stable

One Percent Better

 

Theres a few that are worth a listen. 

I meant what podcast did you hear that

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Just to put it on record, i think Strong >>>>> Corral. I don't think it's close.

 

I've watched way too much tape now, i think he's QB1. I wasnt certain who i had as QB1 before and didnt want to put Strong as my QB1 because mobility and medical, and so I leaned towards Ridder because of his intangibles. 

At this point, i think Carson Strong is the best QB in this class. Not sure how the medicals will check out and i understand the craving to have the next Mahomes or Allen i.e. a very mobile guy who can destroy you out of structure but if I'm Chris Ballard, despite all those negatives, i'd go with Strong. He's Rivers with a stronger arm. I'd give him that 1st half season to a year to settle his knee down (kinda like Dayo Odeyingbo) but if he drops past the first 32 picks, I wouldn't be against moving up to get him. This kid's tape was better than any other QB in this class and again, i don't think it's close.

 

I still think Ridder has the stronger intangibles and maybe could be Tom Brady with a patient team. Yes, yes, sacrilege but I'm saying he's the kind of kid who will improve every season he's a pro. So think Brady in year one not Brady in year 50 or whatever it wound up being before that alien finally retired. Ridder could be great but it'll need a lot of patience and a STRONG team around him, and i wouldn't expect greatness immediately. Strong really could be Rivers on steroids and even maybe could contribute right away, he's wicked smart and with that live arm, I didn't expect to feel this way about some of the prospects in this class but as i've watched more and more, i think the Colts will have their choice of QB if they want one in the class and i wouldn't knock them for moving up to the 1st to draft either one of these guys. It may require some patience before they boom but good things come to those who wait. When i first started scouting this 2022 class, i'd heard all the comments about the paucity of talent, i'd seen a few of the guys watching casually on saturdays and had not really come away impressed with anyone but Howell but maybe i'm doped up on post-Wentz joy but i think this class is better than advertised  and i've been consistent in saying that. Just watch the tape. It's not the nightmare class it's been made out to be. If Ballard can ID a guy (and word is he likes quite a few) and that guy falls within striking distance then 100% he should do it and not save ammo for 2023. 

 

*Before anyone says I'm projecting these two young men to be among the greatest QBs of all time, that's not what i'm saying...I'm saying i can see them getting there if the situation is right, health cooperates, etc. It takes some luck to achieve GOAT status however I don't think the projection is insane. They can be the equivalent of what Brady/Rivers were coming into the league, where it goes from there is murky but these are not scrubs as the general consensus seems to be. They're not polished like Luck or Manning but they have ability and potential and that really is all that counts when you're drafting.

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34 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

At this point, i think Carson Strong is the best QB in this class. Not sure how the medicals will check out and i understand the craving to have the next Mahomes or Allen i.e. a very mobile guy who can destroy you out of structure but if I'm Chris Ballard, despite all those negatives, i'd go with Strong. He's Rivers with a stronger arm. I'd give him that 1st half season to a year to settle his knee down (kinda like Dayo Odeyingbo) but if he drops past the first 32 picks, I wouldn't be against moving up to get him. This kid's tape was better than any other QB in this class and again, i don't think it's close.

 

I'm not a huge tape analyst, but I see Corall as being an excitable guy like Wentz, which is what I always thought was at the root of Wentz' erratic performances.

 

Interesting to see how Strong compares to last year's immobile QB, Mac Jones.  Strong is taller, and has a better arm (stronger, quicker release, but less accurate).  He lacks the pocket awareness, and its hard to tell about processing or progressions because of the Air raid offense he played in, but I think he compares favorably to Jones.  Not as well, but not much worse.  I like the height and arm as a better foundation to work with.

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3 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I meant what podcast did you hear that

I believe it was A Colts Podcast

 

 

Two of the guys on The Blue Stable definitely have connections.  They stated the Colts like this draft and there is definitely 3 or 4 QB’s they like. 

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44 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm not a huge tape analyst, but I see Corall as being an excitable guy like Wentz, which is what I always thought was at the root of Wentz' erratic performances.

 

Interesting to see how Strong compares to last year's immobile QB, Mac Jones.  Strong is taller, and has a better arm (stronger, quicker release, but less accurate).  He lacks the pocket awareness, and its hard to tell about processing or progressions because of the Air raid offense he played in, but I think he compares favorably to Jones.  Not as well, but not much worse.  I like the height and arm as a better foundation to work with.

Yeah i'm not big on Corral. I don't like the way he plays the position.

 

On Strong v Jones. You're probably factoring in the numbers when you speak of accuracy but i think when you add in the style-of-offense factor then I think Strong might just be the more accurate QB or is at least as accurate. And I definitely disagree when you say he has no pocket awareness. That's one of his strengths! The guy works his way in the pocket like Rivers, he senses pressure well and will slide/step up etc. He definitely processes at a very high level because he practically ran the offense....changed calls at the line, handled protections, made reads pre and post snap, this is not some guy waiting on the coaches to rescue him, he's dicing defenses up with no help. I like Mac Jones, liked him last year, loved the NE pick because that was a marriage made in heaven....from the minute Belichick went to watch him and seen with Saban in deep conversations, i said that the league needed to make sure he didnt get that player lol. Strong won't go 15 overall, he has knee issues, he's not an Alabama guy, etc etc, line up the reasons and you're probably right but this kid.....this kid was born to play QB at the highest level. Watch a solid hour of his tape, i don't see how you come away not impressed. 

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27 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah i'm not big on Corral. I don't like the way he plays the position.

 

On Strong v Jones. You're probably factoring in the numbers when you speak of accuracy but i think when you add in the style-of-offense factor then I think Strong might just be the more accurate QB or is at least as accurate. And I definitely disagree when you say he has no pocket awareness. That's one of his strengths! The guy works his way in the pocket like Rivers, he senses pressure well and will slide/step up etc. He definitely processes at a very high level because he practically ran the offense....changed calls at the line, handled protections, made reads pre and post snap, this is not some guy waiting on the coaches to rescue him, he's dicing defenses up with no help. I like Mac Jones, liked him last year, loved the NE pick because that was a marriage made in heaven....from the minute Belichick went to watch him and seen with Saban in deep conversations, i said that the league needed to make sure he didnt get that player lol. Strong won't go 15 overall, he has knee issues, he's not an Alabama guy, etc etc, line up the reasons and you're probably right but this kid.....this kid was born to play QB at the highest level. Watch a solid hour of his tape, i don't see how you come away not impressed. 

My comments come from the myriad of analysts comments I read.  I saw where someone praised his pocket awareness and field vision, and accuracy.  The last one I read said that he struggled with those.  But I agree with you for the most part.

 

Just weighing the comments, Mac Jones had a pretty universal opinion about his strengths and weaknesses.  Pretty easy to tell that he was highly thought of throughout the league.  Not so with Strong.  Because of that alone, I'd put him in the low first round area, especially with the knee.

 

But what I've seen and what I've read, the favorable comments seem better supported than his unfavorable comments, so that, combined with simply more physical stature and arm that Jones, makes me think he'll be in the same conversation as Jones after they are both in the NFL for a while.  

 

BTW, Jones arm strength holds him back.  I think it was a big untold reason why BB ran it so much at the windy BUF that game.

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Prob stupid question, since no one mentions him, but what about Bailey Zappe in about the 4th round?  Kid produces- set the TD record, I believe?  I’m guessing his main drawback is his 6’1” size, and Western Ky/Houston Baptist schools?  
 

sign Marion’s or Trubisky for 2 years (one guaranteed), and let a young kid learn behind them.

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49 minutes ago, DougDew said:

My comments come from the myriad of analysts comments I read.  I saw where someone praised his pocket awareness and field vision, and accuracy.  The last one I read said that he struggled with those.  But I agree with you for the most part.

 

Just weighing the comments, Mac Jones had a pretty universal opinion about his strengths and weaknesses.  Pretty easy to tell that he was highly thought of throughout the league.  Not so with Strong.  Because of that alone, I'd put him in the low first round area, especially with the knee.

 

But what I've seen and what I've read, the favorable comments seem better supported than his unfavorable comments, so that, combined with simply more physical stature and arm that Jones, makes me think he'll be in the same conversation as Jones after they are both in the NFL for a while.  

 

BTW, Jones arm strength holds him back.  I think it was a big untold reason why BB ran it so much at the windy BUF that game.

I think ultimately Strong gets drafted mid 2nd to top 3rd

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6 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I think ultimately Strong gets drafted mid 2nd to top 3rd

Somebody will get a steal. For the kid's sake, hopefully it's a team with it's head screwed on properly.

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1 hour ago, tvturner said:

Matt Corral is my favorite QB in this class

 

What're the most exciting things for you in his tape?

*also, as far as intangibles go, what lights your eyes up?

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17 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

 

What're the most exciting things for you in his tape?

*also, as far as intangibles go, what lights your eyes up?

Very tough and competitive guy at the position and he brings a lot of swagger to the O

 

Teammates and fans loved him

 

His processor has improved every year he's played

 

He's got a great arm with a quick release  and is able to throw out of different arm slots and platforms

Pocket mechanics are very promising and Reich can fix his footwork

 

 

Not to mention he's a very good runner, he just needs to be taught how to slide to save himself

 

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On 3/14/2022 at 12:50 PM, Scott Pennock said:

With how many surgeries that Strong has had on his knee I seriously doubt he is even on Ballard's board due to medical.....

I'd be surprised if he's off his board. That's a franchise QB. 

Ballard picked Dayo last year in the 2nd and was minded to pick him in the 1st. If Strong is who he wants, dont be surprised if he moves up for the player. I dont think the medicals are as much a worry as they're made out to be

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The issue with QB's in the draft is that QB needy teams will pick guys way too early. While we see different guys as Rd 2 or 3 worthy, they will most likely go in the 1st. And I wouldn't be too keen to trade up to the 1st Rd just to get a QB. We have too many other needs to address to throw picks away for a QB who is probably only average. 

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28 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

I'd be surprised if he's off his board. That's a franchise QB. 

Ballard picked Dayo last year in the 2nd and was minded to pick him in the 1st. If Strong is who he wants, dont be surprised if he moves up for the player. I dont think the medicals are as much a worry as they're made out to be

True statement regarding Dayo.....

 

A lot of evaluators have mixed reviews but they agree on the arm talent, pocket presence and throwing mechanics. Hard throwers usually all have the touch issues seemingly.....touch can be taught, arm strength is God given.

 

Based off of the medicals I'm thinking he'd be available at 42. 

 

But......our offense is RPO based....and Strong is a prototypical statue in the pocket.....are we sure he fits?

 

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9 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

True statement regarding Dayo.....

 

A lot of evaluators have mixed reviews but they agree on the arm talent, pocket presence and throwing mechanics. Hard throwers usually all have the touch issues seemingly.....touch can be taught, arm strength is God given.

 

Based off of the medicals I'm thinking he'd be available at 42. 

 

But......our offense is RPO based....and Strong is a prototypical statue in the pocket.....are we sure he fits?

 

Did you think Rivers fit? 

 

On throwing with touch, that narrative is untrue.

 

The media is loaded with groupthink, believe that. If this kid is available at 42, someone is going to be getting.....i'll put it this way, the Colts picked JT at 41. We traded up to get him, yet there were forumers, fans, media, etc all split. Half said it was good, half said why pick a RB when you have Mack, and RBs are easily replaceable, and that's too early for a RB, and he's this, that, and the other....Remember all that?

Okay, if Strong falls to 42, it'll be an even bigger miss by the draft. That's how 'strongly' i feel about this player. It'd be a colossal error. The only question mark is health....but if Ballard was willing to think of selecting Dayo in the 1st, then this one should be a no brainer.

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9 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

The issue with QB's in the draft is that QB needy teams will pick guys way too early. While we see different guys as Rd 2 or 3 worthy, they will most likely go in the 1st. And I wouldn't be too keen to trade up to the 1st Rd just to get a QB. We have too many other needs to address to throw picks away for a QB who is probably only average. 

Considering the fact that we've seen sections of the fanbase clamor for Jimmy G and Derek Carr and even Baker, trading up to get a QB shouldn't be a worry at all.

Have you scouted the QBs available in this class?

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2 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

Did you think Rivers fit? 

 

On throwing with touch, that narrative is untrue.

 

The media is loaded with groupthink, believe that. If this kid is available at 42, someone is going to be getting.....i'll put it this way, the Colts picked JT at 41. We traded up to get him, yet there were forumers, fans, media, etc all split. Half said it was good, half said why pick a RB when you have Mack, and RBs are easily replaceable, and that's too early for a RB, and he's this, that, and the other....Remember all that?

Okay, if Strong falls to 42, it'll be an even bigger miss by the draft. That's how 'strongly' i feel about this player. It'd be a colossal error. The only question mark is health....but if Ballard was willing to think of selecting Dayo in the 1st, then this one should be a no brainer.

I was just being a parrot in repeating what I've read elsewhere. I never watched him play personally.

 

I see your point on Rivers, the offense can be altered to accommodate a traditional style QB. 

 

If he is the choice then I will support it. We'll know by whomever they sign or trade for soon enough. If it's a placeholder QB then we know one is coming in the draft. If it's a multiyear guy......

 

Thank you for the info!

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27 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I was just being a parrot in repeating what I've read elsewhere. I never watched him play personally.

 

I see your point on Rivers, the offense can be altered to accommodate a traditional style QB. 

 

If he is the choice then I will support it. We'll know by whomever they sign or trade for soon enough. If it's a placeholder QB then we know one is coming in the draft. If it's a multiyear guy......

 

Thank you for the info!

The year Rivers was with us, he was 6th in the NFL in RPO passing yards, and attempted 15 more RPO plays than the year before i.e. his last year in LA. The offense doesn't have to change drastically when you have a good QB. It's when you have some average/middle-of-the-road guy that you have to start changing x, y, z, and buying up all the eggs at the store because that's what helps that QB function, it's nonsense.

 

The media can be full of hot nonsense. 

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2 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

The year Rivers was with us, he was 6th in the NFL in RPO passing yards, and attempted 15 more RPO plays than the year before i.e. his last year in LA. The offense doesn't have to change drastically when you have a good QB. It's when you have some average/middle-of-the-road guy that you have to start changing x, y, z, and buying up all the eggs at the store because that's what helps that QB function, it's nonsense.

 

The media can be full of hot nonsense. 

Very true. I still wonder what direction we go? If it was Mariota off the scrap heap I would guess we would have heard that announcement already......

 

Leads me to believe they have a ranking system they are working off of that starts with Watson, Carr, Garoppolo, Ryan, Mayfield, Love then to the Mariota's and Winston's of the world.

 

I would think the rest of the off-season signings, trades or drafting all stems from what QB they are able to accomplish on the QB front. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Pennock said:

Very true. I still wonder what direction we go? If it was Mariota off the scrap heap I would guess we would have heard that announcement already......

 

Leads me to believe they have a ranking system they are working off of that starts with Watson, Carr, Garoppolo, Ryan, Mayfield, Love then to the Mariota's and Winston's of the world.

 

I would think the rest of the off-season signings, trades or drafting all stems from what QB they are able to accomplish on the QB front. 

 

On defense, they know what they have to do.

 

On offense, i think you understand what's going on. They're going to wait and see if they can get the best possible QB for as cheap as possible. Think in terms of lower round picks. They understand that they have to draft and develop a QB, either this year or next so they're looking for a bridge guy. That's why they're patient and content to wait. If San Fran refuses to go down on price for Jimmy, they'll move onto the next man. This isnt desperation or anything many fans seem to think it is. 

They can have Mariota NOW if they want him, but they'll try to get better than him. It may materialize, it may not. They're going to be patient with this, very patient. Fans need to fall in line and see what's happening :) 

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25 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

On defense, they know what they have to do.

 

On offense, i think you understand what's going on. They're going to wait and see if they can get the best possible QB for as cheap as possible. Think in terms of lower round picks. They understand that they have to draft and develop a QB, either this year or next so they're looking for a bridge guy. That's why they're patient and content to wait. If San Fran refuses to go down on price for Jimmy, they'll move onto the next man. This isnt desperation or anything many fans seem to think it is. 

They can have Mariota NOW if they want him, but they'll try to get better than him. It may materialize, it may not. They're going to be patient with this, very patient. Fans need to fall in line and see what's happening :) 

If you read some of the other threads they most certainly are not patient! They want him tp buy name players and didn't even seem the least bit concerned about Christian Kirk being the 3rd highest paid WR in the league now and he's never even had a 1000 yard season???? Or Randy Gregory getting 28 million guaranteed on a 5/70 contract. That dude is one false step away from a lifetime ban......seriously some of these fans need to get a grip on reality.

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